Rubber walls instead of concrete

[Calyx of Isis]

I am mp3, have 62 wins and 56 losses, but I have hit my XP max and my creatures cannot gain wins or xp. I've won a few battles since hitting my max, but my creatures win counters do not increase. The cannot and will not be upgraded until mp4 and mp4 will happen only if I engage is a series of battles with no virtue or honor. It's dull, boring, and uninteresting.

Now the thing is, I did what I was instructed to do. Maintained my balance, engaged in healing rituals, upgraded my creatures when I could. All with no idea that the game was going to simply stop me dead in my tracks.

I'd like to propose that game limits not be set in concrete but be somewhat giving. Progress should not be stopped completely, but be made increasingly difficult. At present, game boundaries are invisible until you hit them. Then, because of game mechanics, it becomes very difficult to do anything. Since so little is effective, there is almost no way to learn what to do when no progress is possible.

The recent contest makes it clear that there are ways for high level players to zero out their xp, but can an mp3 do it. I would dearly love to know how. Healing rituals might do it, if I could find anybody willing to let me attack with a healing ritual. For an mp3, defending with a healing ritual does nothing to reduce xp.

Over all, the game mechanics need to be a bit more forgiving. And facts about the game mechanics need to be more available. Here I though I had found a game whose principles would keep me involved forever. And now, in eight short days, the mechanics of the game have caused me to loose interest.

[Glaistig]

I can understand this feeling, as well. Most players don't know the exact requirements for the advancement unless they have finished the story before they reach max exp/won fights (I think that's how it was meant to be, but really, most get to max exp far before finishing story), or they ask someone. Not to mention there is no official faq, unless you mean the one ingame when you click the Live Help button (which isn't always there) and says "Currently under construction." You can look for yourself how helpful it is. Maybe another topic should be made about this.

I'm also in favor of changing at least this part of game mechanics. It has been discussed before; would it be too bad to allow win counts to continue registering for creatures until the players actually reach 100 wins? I don't know about overall, however.

You can reduce your exp to 0 in mp3. However, I don't know if I should say it myself instead of letting players discover it themselves.

If you lose interest, you may want to think about returning only when the game is farther along. There are many problems that need fixing. Otherwise, you can become involved in suggesting specific fixes and changes and help the game reach a point in which it's principles and mechanics are near perfect more quickly. I believe when I look back, I will find this phase of game development most interesting.

[Calyx of Isis]

You can reduce your exp to 0 in mp3. However, I don't know if I should say it myself instead of letting players discover it themselves.

I really would appreciate a hint. I will ask you in game if I see you. So far have managed to get tiny bits of negative xp twice and my creatures were able to record 2 wins.

Otherwise, you can become involved in suggesting specific fixes and changes and help the game reach a point in which it's principles and mechanics are near perfect more quickly. I believe when I look back, I will find this phase of game development most interesting.

I am trying to stay involved and be an active participant here and in game. The basic premises of the game are dear to my heart and I truly desire to see the game mechanics live up to the dream.

At present I am killing players only because I need to rack up 100 wins. This is absolutely awful. I hate it, and if it persistently occurs and Manu won't move away from it, I will not stay with the game. A game that promotes balance needs to have a better way for players to advance than simply getting a fixed number of kills. There is no virtue or honor in it and it runs completely counter to the basic ideas behind this game.

During the story line play should be like being in a martial arts school. One duels, does combat with others, solely for the purpose of learning and growing. Each exercise and combat is designed to promote growth. In addition, a good master will teach that one should fight only when necessary, either in defense of yourself or those around you. Doing combat simply to get so called victories is pointless. When a player reaches a point where no forward progress -- other than "win" count -- can be made, all virtue in the duels that follow is lost as they are simply a mechanical process and not truly contributing towards growth.

One could argue that learning to lower one's xp is as vital to learning the game as is making xp grow. However, until and unless the mechanics of lowering XP are known to more than just a few high level players, the argument has no validity. As near as I can tell, lowering XP requires a level of cooperation that is not (at present) encouraged in mp3's. And given the number of mp4's begging for healing rituals or particular kinds of wins and losses, the game has yet to foster sufficient cooperation among mp4's as well.

In general I hate and will not play PvP games. I joined this game because of the ideas. I will do what I can to see that the game mechanics match the ideals.

[Glaistig]

I guarantee you, you will be further impressed by the awfulness of the honor/balance system. It's pretty bad, the way it is now.

Anyway, what do you think would be a better way than a fixed number?

[Calyx of Isis]

I guarantee you, you will be further impressed by the awfulness of the honor/balance system. It's pretty bad, the way it is now.

Anyway, what do you think would be a better way than a fixed number?

Thanks for the guarantee -- reading here and there had rather assured me this was the case, but now I have your guarantee that it's bad.

As for what might work... my crisis came when I maxed my XP. This really should have triggered something in the game. Ok, maybe not promotion to MP4, but I should have gotten something, even it was simply an invitation to learn how to cope with the problem.

Alternatively, the game can detect when a player is no longer able to progress or has not progressed over a long time (many successive losses even when attacking). Perhaps there should be a secondary story that acts as a remedial class. In the long term, maybe additional puzzles could be used to help with certain problems like max xp. Right now the game is in alpha, but as it matures more puzzles and territory accessible to mp3's would help. Ditto for higher levels, but only being an mp3 I do not understand those issues yet.

In real life we all learn at different rates. In the dojo most may require 100 "wins" to progress to the next level, but some will need more and others less. At present the game does nothing to detect and reward either advanced or retarded learning. Making it to successive levels of the game should be more a matter of how you actually play and use what you've learned than of reaching unvarying goals.

I was the student of a shaman. She trained me differently from the way she trained her other students. Each was unique. In a good dojo, such individual teaching is possible even when there are many students. Using pattern matching the game could recognize a more flexible and meaningful goal than simply N-wins.

This said, I have no problem with the 100 wins, just with the fact that they've become meaningless. If I only took challenging combats it would take many months to accumulate 100 wins. Right now I am learning very little, and I KNOW this was not Manu's intent.

While the problem seems largely a matter of mechanics, I suspect it is also due to the fact that [A] the game concepts are not yet set and the game is a long way from going beta, and the player population is still too low for the game mechanics to truly work as intended.

I'm sure I will have more ideas as I get further into the game.