This is here for final thoughts on the debate and the fate of the dojo, if you feel another issue should be added please state so and why, Also if you have something to say about one of the issues then do so, but don't just repeat what has already been said.

Click [url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/4783-dojo-meeting-log-day-211-212/"]Here[/url] for the full transcript of the debate.



[center][size="5"]PLEASE READ THE DEBATE BEFORE VOTING[/size]
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Edit: Modded on request.

Edited August 1, 200916 yr by Shadowseeker

There is something I planned and orignally wanted to mention at the debate, but as my time was lmited and I did not get the chance to speak, I am writing here instead.

It was my own idea before the debate came up, the debate just made me speed things up.

My idea is simple: It says it is a dojo, so I hereby challenge the leaders for their sign. And with that, I intend to take over the leadership officially.

Changes I would bring with myself would be:
Actual basic and perhaps a few advanced lessons on combat.
Allowing MP5 to be attacked. Lower MP's should get protection, but everything has to end. This is benefitial to all, since there was NO such place before.
A system based on public methods to keep everything in order. Dreams which I do not have won't be used in my opinion, in case it is needed we shall see again.
I heard of the idea to move the location, and I am against it. At a certain point in storyline people spawn there, so I think it to be a good idea.

I know I have a few people supporting me, but I'd still like to know what the public feels. Anyone care to respond?
And yes, I can be rather impatient sometimes. So, I'd like to see this happen as fast as possible.

(The setup from Granos was just ideal, so I sorta hijack this topic now.)

yeah having the dojo at the same place is the best.. for thats where new mp3's spwan

The challenge..was not replied to. This is unsatisfying.

[img]http://shadowseeker.redio.de/DojoChallenge.JPG[/img]

errr did you tell them a time to meet you? for just going there and challenging isn't nice.. and if a battle happens plz post the log i wanna see ur drachorn ritual hehe

I'm still waiting. And they can try to set a time, but my time and patience is limited.

So, I will wait almost a full day there.

why you need Dojo representatives to answer your challenge?
we arent a royal family to answer to your protests, dojo was created to help people, and we are just helpers, like LHOs


the whole community should participate in Dojo re-modeling if one happens, make your decisions based upon suggestions and votes here

Well...for instance, the fact that I can sit there for a few hours seeing nobody on. For instance, that I see no sign of Calyx or Sage lately. For instance, that many persons do not accept the way it is now. Hell, they didn#t even show up at the debate.

This challenge is just a way to express this all, and the desire to change it. If you now do not accept it, then how dare this place call itself DOJO?

Then it is nothing but a weak claim by some people who cannot see the truth.

Hmmm...
After reading that, I have a few things to say.

First, I'd just like to state that I do use the Dojo, and Have found it very usefull, and from my experience I have found that it does work. HOWEVER: I have also not seen very much indication of battle strategy being taught there.
I would also like to say that I was the sort of person who didn't go outside Marind Bell until after exploring everywhere else, simply because of the AP cost to do so (Now I laugh at my behaviour back then, but that's what it's like when your new)

Ok:
1. I agree with the idea of moving the Dojo to the Fenth's Press. It makes sense, because you can have a sparring pit populated by MP2 sitting right outside for rituals, is so close to the GoE, and doesn't prevent you from training if you want to. It would eliminate the need for idling rules, as anyone in the sparring pit should be fair game. In regards to the idea of people waiting there to slaughter anyone who came out, I don't think you would get to many people doing that as people using it would probably have very weak creatures, therefor giving very little EXP.

2. If having an MP2 horde is to unsightly, why not have an NPC that behaves like a character who has no creatures? Able to open the ritual setting window, but gives the response of no defending force, so can't be eliminated from the area. Make it a statue, or something.

3. I had myself removed from Dojo protection, but still spend most of my time there. My aim? I normally have a ritual set that is strong enough to beat most other MP3's, so I deter hit and runners from attacking the dojo. People ARE willing to defend the Dojo, You only need to ask.

4. Rather than spells, whenever I see someone complaining about being attacked in Dojo I tell the victim to leave a note in the players PL, and leave it there until the player demonstrates a changed attitude. Temporary Black Marks can do wonders...

To sumarrise: Idealy, if the system is to broken, move it here and set up a non-combat NPC. You get safety of a sanctuary, ritual setting plus agreed fights, and access to the GoE, where Veterans are often online to offer advice, as well as LHO. This would also mean you wouldn't need as many Dojo staff, just the ones who were doing their job properly.


(Wish I'd been able to go to the debate, but it was at 4am...)

An idea which does not necessarily work. People would have to leave the sanc every time before they attack each other, and in case anyone idles they are lost for that. Another coding project...the idea was to have one which runs by itself.

And about the PLs..that's what has been happening, and a lot of players ignore it.

If so many are thinking about the dojo, why do we have this debate at all?

[quote name='Kyphis the Bard' date='01 August 2009 - 06:32 AM' timestamp='1249122764' post='38465']

To sumarrise: Idealy, if the system is to broken, move it here and set up a non-combat NPC. You get safety of a sanctuary, ritual setting plus agreed fights, and access to the GoE, where Veterans are often online to offer advice, as well as LHO. This would also mean you wouldn't need as many Dojo staff, just the ones who were doing their job properly.

[/quote]

The idea of moving it to a sanctuary defeats the very point and purpose of the dojo and it is a social initiative, having a npc there would be the result of divine intervention which were the reasons the start of the problems with the dojo it's self. Also the idea of using alt's (mp2's) is also not an option as they are no longer avalible for creation, and would not be for some time.. ( use of alt's is never a valide solution) The whole point of the dojo is a social initative run by the community for the community with out external aid. If you want the safety of a sanctuary and pre-agreed fights well thats up to you, you wouldnt need the dojo or the dojo staff to do that. But that said, if thats all people want then why have the dojo in the first place? (judging from the poll we can see thats not the case)

I the other topic I posted there about leadership ( http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/4758-dojo-debate/page__pid__38498__st__20&#entry38498 ). This is almost exactly what I mean. There is no leadership at the dojo. At least no visible leadership. The dojo /used to be/ supported by alliance(s), but that either never came off the ground with some and never lasted long with others.
The dojo is weak and will face constant abuse by others if the current situation stays this way.
This challenge is what it needs. Either the leaders step up to their game, or Shadowseeker takes it over, and even if he has very little support, he will still be a visible leader. A person who takes responsibility and has the desire to make things better (according to his own vision, naturally). If he fails, well, then I just say it's the survival of the fittest. I know, I know, Darwin adhered more to the survival of those more suited to adapt, but that still applies here. If the dojo can't adapt and thrive to this realm and it stays this weak, it will dwindle and shrink until it exists no more.

The dojo is in my opinion this:

A dose of good idea
And a LARGE amount of poor planning/location/evolution.

It grew too large too fast, with too few people staffing it, and with the wrong location. All of these problems were fixed with the MR training grounds, which in my opinion do everything the dojo was meant to do more efficiently.

So in short, I support Shadowseeker fully, and think the dojo should be absolutely abolished. It is no longer needed.

Awi

[img]http://shadowseeker.redio.de/DojoEnd.JPG[/img]

Apparently there is nobody wishing to stand up for it. Very well, I now claim it as mine.

Topic closed, new topic will be opened after this for a list of support/helpers. I would welcome the old staff, but I will also establish my own.