Fundraising Suggestion Discussion Topic

[Kyphis the Bard]

First off, I just want to say that I have already raised this idea with Mur and heard his thoughts on it. He is loosely opposed to the idea, although interested in hearing community opinion on it.

 

Introduction

 

Currently with MD's server costs not being fully met for the next few months, Mur is running a sale to raise funds. This has both ideological benefits and downsides, some of which will be outlined below. The suggestion I am putting to you, the community, is intended to negate as many of the downsides while not compromising the benefits as possible. Any suggestions that further that goal are eagerly invited.

 

The benefits of the current system are as follows¹:

• They only use stock that existed prior to the current shortage
• They only use stock created either in the normal manner or for a purpose other than the current event
• They can be held at any time, as necessary
• It will likely be able to raise the necessary funds in the short term

The downsides of the current system are as follows¹:

• There is no way of knowing whether it will successfully cover costs or not, as the considered value of such items will be put into flux
• Only people who pay can participate
• Some people who can afford to make one off payments who wish to support MD may hold off until such an event, causing undue stress

When building this suggestion, I had to keep in mind the following points²:

• Only stock that existed prior to and was created for a reason or occasion other than the current shortage are to be used for it
• Any suggestion: would need to be in such a format that, should the shortages end and this system of fundraising never be needed again, those who participated would still get something of value
• Any variation on the format needs to maintain the "Seize The Moment" aspect; ie as with other occasions such as Medal Ceremonies, if you are not there to participate at the time you miss out until the next chance
• No commodity can have its value dropped or put into flux in a significant manner as a foreseeable result

 

Fundraising idea: Alternative Subscription Reward - Subscriber's Token (tradeable item)

 

With these points in mind and an aim to move away from a "pay to play" attitude to such events, I put forward the following proposal.

 

Currently, subscribers are given a 50% of bonus credits based on their subscription level. What I suggest is a new, tradeable item, usable like currency, called a "Subscriber's Token". This is instead of, not in addition to, the bonus credits. Given the properties I will suggest, it would likely have a value between silver coins and gold, as well as above basic credits (although this would be determined by the markets, as value always has been).

 

The properties I suggest for this item are as follows:

• In the new scheme, you are given one "Subscriber's Token" per extra credit you would have received in the old scheme
• "Subscriber's Tokens" can be converted into credits in a one to one ratio
• Credits can not be converted into "Subscriber's Tokens"
• "Subscriber's Tokens" are tradeable

The benefits of this scheme would be as follows¹:

• Mur would be able to see funding levels in advance
• It will likely raise more money
• Anyone would be able to hold events that required this sort of currency, as well as normal trade
• Anyone would be able to get these items and participate in these sorts of events, whether they can pay or not (just like coins)
• This scheme does not rely on Mur to organize stock, nor require new stock to be created for it
• Events can be held at any time, by anyone

The downsides of this scheme would be as follows¹:

• It would almost definitely permanently devalue the silver coin, and possibly the gold coin³
• There would likely be high inflation during its introduction, as we saw with the development of coins and avatars
• It does not maintain a "Seize The Moment" aspect
• It does not cater directly for people who can only make one off payments
• It only offers very specific increments

 

Closing Thoughts

 

There are a lot of variations possible with this suggestion. For example, there could be high value auctions planned by the TK's for events like MD-B-Day, or Christmas (but considering the nature of Christmas, probably not ;)). There is the possibility of adding extra options to subscriptions allowing you to choose between getting the extra credits and getting the tokens, or even possibly getting no credits at all but instead getting the tokens of the next tier up (although for some of this to make sense you would probably have to give less tokens per subscription than direct credits. While this would certainly maintain credits as more valuable than tokens, I am against it on the grounds it would make subscriptions confusing).

There are a lot of different ways such a thing could be implemented, all with their own benefits and downsides. I have presented what I feel to be the most fair approach, however I am but one man and I only have my own perspective to go on. Please, if you have anything to add, suggest, criticize; any concerns to raise, or suggestions to make, please do so in your comments. And remember, based on my current discussion with Mur this idea is NOT going ahead. This will only happen if you find it acceptable and want it to happen.

 

 

 

_{1: There may be additional points I am not thinking of, or may not even be aware of. Please keep this in mind and feel free to point out any I may have missed.}

_{2: And any suggestions also need to keep these points in mind, as these are the things Mur does not want to compromise on.}

_{3: See Paragraphs 1-2, post #3}

Edited May 21, 2013 by Kyphis the Bard

[Chewett]

MD needs a disposable razor.

 

EDIT: which apparently Americans dont understand the concept of.

 

The idea off a disposable razor is that you buy a handle + blades. After time the blades become blunt and you need to throw them away and purchase more blades. The handle is normally a one off purchase and for the majority of companies its a loss leader (meaning they sell it for cheaper than they buy it for). The blades are the item that the user keeps coming back to buy. The item isnt needed, you can easily get by without shaving your face, but most people do. Its also a futile attempt, since hair grows and you will need to shave again.

 

The idea of having a disposable razor is a product that the consumer keeps coming back and buying, because they feel they need to, without it actually doing anything useful in the long run at all. Items in the temporary shop do this some way but from discussions i have had most people dont use them/only use one to get to the other items in that branch.

Edited May 21, 2013 by Chewett

[Kyphis the Bard]

Having more time to think about it I have hit upon another potential snag for this scheme, namely that, while coins are limited by how many you can get per shop reset and how rarely shop resets happen (a facet that is easy enough to get around if you want to, but which is still relevant), this form of currency would be accumulated every month, making inflation go insane.

 

This would have a benefit however, as it would likely mean that the final value of such tokens would end up below that of silver coins, thus negating the devaluation problem listed about.

 

However, as these are intended for use in high value sales, I will put forward an additional option for discussion. Specifically, that unlike coins which can be traded individually, that tokens can only be traded in stacks like resources. This would have several benefits, such as encouraging trade, and making it far more difficult to bid on multiple different items at any single event.

It would however encourage the same sort of "muleing" of alts we saw when resources where introduced. Hopefully the same sorts of measures put in place to prevent that would work here as well though. It would also potentially make it far, far harder for non paying players to get their hands on any tokens at first, as players with high value blocks of tokens would not be willing to trade them away easily. Even considering that the largest balls would be removed periodically during fundraising events, this would still create a bigger gap between paying and non-paying players in the long term...

 

As with any suggestion, there are many pro's and con's to consider.

 

I think this variation is not a good idea, due to the sheer amount of cons and the potential for the cons to cancel out the pros directly (vis a vis open market pros and cons), so would not support it myself. I am presenting it to you mainly in case it sparks any other ideas amongst you.

 

On the other hand, it does highlight that in the long term, the silver coin won't actually be devalued, which is a good thing.

[Chewett]

I have clarified what a "disposable razor" is above.

[Change]

I think the reason why not many people have subscriptions is because credits are useless to many people. I've heard of lots of people who have tons of unspent credits. What do I think MD needs to improve its finances? Collectables.

 

There are three main things that I get in the shop. Tokens, creature slots, and coins. Tokens are nice looking, but you can't buy them if you want some specific creatures to be tokenless. I'm in that situation now, and so I won't be buying any tokens for awhile.

 

Coins? They're nice, I guess, but gold coins are really difficult for me and other non-grinders to get. Also, silver coins always make me feel like I'm being ripped off (because I don't use the other reward you get when you buy them).

 

Creature slots? My browser is now extremely slow when I load my creature page, and so I don't really want to buy any more.

 

I'm guessing that other people with tons of unspent credits are in similar situations. Here's how I think that these three things can be improved.

 

Coins: Make the rewards given for buying them more varied.

Tokens: Have another section of tokens that are purely for decorative purposes. Make lots of these tokens. Perhaps you can choose which creatures these tokens go on? You can easily make this by copying the existing tokens onto this section. Then, you can add more. Using existing token designs could serve to deceive someone in battle as to what functional tokens your creatures have.

Creature slots: Have the option to show only 10/20/50/custom/all creatures at a time. Also, have the option to display only certain types of creatures. So, if I selected 10 and 'trees', I could flip through a collection of 100 trees while only showing 10 trees at a time. Basically, have more organizing in general.

 

In short: MD needs more pretty/cool looking stuff! The stuff doesn't have to be functional at all. Other games have beautiful cards, creatures (not saying MD's aren't also beautiful), clothes, and other collectibles. I'd much rather spend my money on MD collectibles than those other game's collectibles if MD made collecting easier.

 

Also, MD artists and coders need more benefits available to them if they want them.

Edited May 21, 2013 by Change

[Chewett]

Also, MD artists and coders need more benefits available to them if they want them.

 Wut?

 

EDIT: to expand:

 

What benefits should they get? What benefits do artists and coders get currently? Why is this being raised on a discussion about fundraising?

Edited May 21, 2013 by Chewett

[Faceless]

I imagine that the idea of ​​"collecting" is interesting and best exploited.

I especially should have invested $ 300+ last year to buy the Xmas drach then increased my creatures slot and accumulated creatures, when I went to the section of tokens I realized I was with many creatures, and they should be scattered, so since then I have tried sacrificing creatures before finish the tokens section.

What makes me even now with $ 259.
I see that Aniversary Aramor are highly coveted because every year is a different model released. And most creatures have a colored version in shop, maybe other creatures are released in colored version?

Maybe a competition where everyone can participate "customizing" your favorite creature, and most voted to be thrown in shop?

Or completely new creatures, are released on a regular basis and for a limited time ... I am not speaking here of "super" creatures but only colored versions / customized from existing or new ones without "super" skills, but to be collected .

[Tom Pouce]

Not fund raising but relate

asking is it possible to code for less bandwidth and so lowering cost?

I am under impression, game is slow and load much info that could safely not be

like all my creatures, if i look them, all could be load once, and looking at each done only in client side ...

all that info for:
cloud
player detective
www.google-analytics.com

is it really necessary?

when i vote , is it necessary to load each time link mixing order, and also load advertising?

...

same thing, if i look what is avalable in md shop, seem to me every thing is load again each time i look at different sections ... why not load once, refresh only if i buy?

I am sure coder know better than me what can be safely remove and keep MD game secure but lower very much badwidth

[Chewett]

Not fund raising but relate

asking is it possible to code for less bandwidth and so lowering cost?

I am under impression, game is slow and load much info that could safely not be

like all my creatures, if i look them, all could be load once, and looking at each done only in client side ...

all that info for:
cloud
player detective
www.google-analytics.com

is it really necessary?

when i vote , is it necessary to load each time link mixing order, and also load advertising?

...

same thing, if i look what is avalable in md shop, seem to me every thing is load again each time i look at different sections ... why not load once, refresh only if i buy?

I am sure coder know better than me what can be safely remove and keep MD game secure but lower very much badwidth

 

This isnt an issue.

[Kyphis the Bard]

I'll just quickly say that, it terms of collectibles, one of Mur's main concerns with any sort of suggestion is he doesn't want to turn MD too commercial. Basically, if its only going to be available to paying customers, then its probably not acceptable (functional or not).

 

So for the suggestion of collectible creatures, that would probably be fine as they are tradeable, but things like clothes (I assume you mean a "vanity" style equipment piece for your combat avatar?) that would be out of the question with how those sorts of items are currently handled. Hence why we will never see Spell Doc's in the Credit shop (actually, there are so very, very many reasons that will never happen, but you get the idea)

[Tom Pouce]

suggestion (trying to make the blade for the rasor of Chewett)

make another MD shop section

illimited stock

and its first item (costing like everything else only 1 credit)

token shield (one use)

this would enable someone to buy and put one on one of his chosen creature, one he dont want token on it

and first token he will buy wont go on any creature with the token shield, but on one random creature without shield ... but at same time it make each token shield that one as , having made its use .. so he will buy more if he want to shield its creatures again


that way one can even token exactly one creature he want but it will cost much token shield , for each token he put

Edited May 21, 2013 by Tom Pouce

[Change]

I don't think tokens or stats should be ever able to trump a strategic ritual, so I wouldn't want something like token shield. Chewett, I mean that MD shouldn't worry about giving artists and coders more rewards. (Artists get 3 credits if they create and sell an avatar to the shop, for instance). It was more of a sidenote than anything.

 

Let me clarify. I'm only suggesting that another section should be made for decorative tokens. That is, tokens that only serve to decorate your creatures. Perhaps when you buy a decorative token, you get it in your inventory. You can then use them to decorate your creatures. This could maybe take place under 'advanced creature actions'. This would also allow for people to trade for these tokens. The functional token designs can be used and new designs can be added periodically. Creating new decorative tokens will take far less effort than creating new tokens or creatures, because you don't have to consider fight balance implications.

 

More custom decorative things could be added in the future, but I don't think that this would take too much effort to impliment (considering there are dozens of token designs already).

Edited May 21, 2013 by Change

[Chewett]

As a piece of information, we are currently looking into reducing server costs and hopefully this shall be done soon.

[Menhir]

I know some already know this but for all who are not aware of the situation - MD is dying financially! What dose it mean? Server will be shut down and we all can say goodbye to MD. I know some do not care but others do.

 

The question we should dicuss and try to find the answers as a community are:

(and please keep in mind this is the wrong time to fight in the forum in this topic - we should be very aware of the situation that if we are not able to solve it then MD will not survive in the long term!) 

 

1. Why is MD dying financially?

2. And what can we the playerbase do to change that? 

3. What is lacking in the concept or what changed over the years?

4. What needs to be changed that those of us who have the money and would love to spend it actually do it without unbalancing the system?

 

I suggest that everyone of us is thinking deeply about more questions and all those questions should be collected and presented in a separate forum topic. After that we ALL start finding the solutions. I´m very aware that we have to work together maybe the first time as ONE group of people who share the same passion for something. Comments like - "it´s councils or Mur´s responsibility to solve it!" -  will not help because we all see that if they could have we would not talk about it now! 

 

My first suggestions are:

 

1. Why are people all over the world love championships & tournaments like the soccer league in Europe or the football/baseball/basketball leagues in US and do not forget the cricket season in India! Why? Because we love to be a part of those competitions between groups of people? Maybe, maybe, not lets find out why so many love it and use it as attraction in MD. Make tournaments at different section of the actual gameplay - creature fighting / RP fighting / Item creating / Quests creations - give out championship trophies each year and of course prizes. At the same time the change the shop - usable items for the tournaments (extra section) e.g. Coins or something else as entry fee for the championships.

 

2. Why are games like Minecraft are so popular and successful and at the same time nearly for free? They are creative and you are allowed to do some many SIMPLE!!! things but with combining them you are able to create awesome huge things! Murs last announcements and hopefully later fully implemented functionality of those new features are heading directly into this direction. So I say we need this urgently and we need a better way of advertisement. We need good advertisement and we have the internet for this. Lets create impressive Youtube videos with all features and good art - showing the people why MD is so special among all other games. 

 

We need to be aware that there are not so many ways how to cover future costs.

Finding a sponsor who is supporting MD with a huge amount of money would be one - how many of those "money blessed" people you know? If you know ask them.

 

Getting more fresh player into MD and change MD in the way that not 20% stay ingame and are willing to support MD with money for the server costs but at least 50%. I know this is a huge thing for Mur and for many (me included) because MD should not be changed in a way we all would dislike only to get more player but I´m pretty sure there are ways to do it differently.   

 

Let do this together.

 

Please have a look at the topic I created about the Walt Disney Strategy.

 

http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/14140-the-walt-disney-strategy/

 

All the best for all of you

Edited May 22, 2013 by Menhir

[Junior]

...ummm.. I know you guys will probably hate me for the following but... what about in-game advertising? MD has three HUGE areas that can have "some" form of advertising, these being the sides to the left and right (vertical sections), and also the entire bottom of the page?. Personally I have never really cared about in-game ads or on youtube etc plus i know this will help so much.

 

(am not sure if we could add a poll here of 1, would ads affect your gameplay/ your desire to play MD", 2, No i would care if ads where there)

[Nimrodel]

I agree with junior. It'd be incredibly irritating yes, but if it helps MD, I think I can adjust a bit. Better than MD drowning in financial crisis

[Jubaris]

I agree with Junior's idea. In emergency, we can allow in-game ads, temporary until MD incomes stabilize to be able to support the game on their own.

[Junior]

I am not sure if MD still has an advertising team like when i use to run it but there is quick ways to gain money through these ads. Theres very popular games out there that would love more advertisement. Now i dont know how much it costs per month to run MD but lets say we are using these 3 sections i mentioned. (the most profitable way to do it) Is through a flat rate charge. Lets say we seel the right and left as exclusive banner ad space at an ABOUT common flat rate price of $100-$125 per month regardless of the click/visited results and the bottom space (which is bigger) at around $50-$75 you are looking at about $300-$450 a month which again those are generic prices sold to the right person. (in my opinion $300 is a fair start) Other options that (if we still have) the advertising group could set up a CPM method or CPC method. however these two methods would yield less income but could also sell more smaller banners or text links in order to create revenue. Anyways i think am just typing now umm but yeah these would be my ideas in order to help.

 

P.S. IF NEED BE we could also expand into other MD screens like we already do in the free credits page.

 

P.S.S.? The generic over view of what i am suggesting is the free credits page (with all the banners and ADs) but on the home page on the sides and bottom. ok done

[Tom Pouce]

comment to mouch banner advertising more so if moving or flash , if irritating for old players, ... think it even be more repulsing to new players ?

so maybe an boost short term in revenue, but if no new players .... decline will be more

[Kyphis the Bard]

Getting a little off topic with the discussion, but just to comment on Juniors idea, I believe such has been suggested to Mur in the past and he has said something to the effect of he would never want to do that (although this is recalling from years ago, and people change, so don't by any means consider that a quote). However, I personally think it would be a good idea with two additional points:

• It is an toggle-able option for players that can be found in the player options and free credits page; default is to OFF
• It generates a small amount of free credits value to players who enable it (say .1 per day? Would need proper balancing)

[Chewett]

BFH is the best to comment on specific ways of raising money/players, but from discussions i have had with him and Mur the topsites MD is on is by far the best, easiest and cheapest way we have in getting more players to play. Without pouring a large amount of money into comparatively useless advertising.