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Day of Fortune - What IS fortune?

Sasha Lilias

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On day 64, year 10, at the Hall of the Sun Balcony I held a little "experiment". The results are quite outstanding.
I asked one question:
What do you see "fortune" as and how has it affected you? 
From this stemmed many different ideas on the perception of fortune and how it effected us as people. Two of the most common ideas, however, were that a) fortune is goodfew seemed to instantly recognise that fortune is inherently neutral - which brings us to b) that the nature of good and bad fortune comes from the perception of the beholder. This latter idea is very true. What I might consider lucky to have another may consider the 'norm' or not lucky at all! 
Give a drowning man a cup of fresh water, he'll hate you forever, give it to a man dying of dehydration, he'll love you forever.
Many others believed that we can "control" our fortune - also known (in it's synonym form) as luck. Now, luck is brought about through chance, if we were to control this "luck" - and force it to do as we wished - then it would no longer be an act of chance, it would become a forced one, thus no longer making it anything to do with luck or fortune.
We can however, adapt to the situation. As many of you correctly noted - and this brings us back to our "b)" point - we are only regretful or upset if we expect something and, for some reason, we don't get it! Therefore if we adapt ourselves to think in a manner where we do not expect a certain outcome, we are no longer subject to personal luck. This, stupidly, would even apply to being crushed to death by a heard of stampeding giraffes; if you don't perceive getting killed as "bad luckthen it would be no big deal!
I shall be posting some of my information at a later date but, for now, below are the people that helped me with my "experiment" and their ideas on the perception of fortune.
Please feel free to join in the discussion on this topic.
*Grido*: Fortune can be good or bad, it is what life throws at us, and what we make of it. It affects me every day, in everything I do and that I encounter.[/log]
Lania: It may seem lame, but I associate it with random payment, to put it like this. The classical "you do something good. In the future good fortune might hit you". But it does not work if you do something specifically to get some good reward. You must mean the kind act.
*Sasha Lilias*: So you believe it is Karma, Lania? 
Lania: Not exactly. Karma comes as a form of punishment too and I don't see fortune acting the same way. 
*Sasha Lilias*:And how has it affected you?
Lania: Not sure how to say it affected me. I just believe it did. Mostly because there have been some times when things were out of my control, but it so happened that things turned out the way I needed them to. Fortune comes when you need it, not when you want it. That sort of thing. [/log]
Shadowseeker: I see fortune as events that have been set in motion and positively affect you; Or the parts thereof.
*Sasha Lilias*: SS, so you're saying fortune is purely good? 
Shadowseeker: The parts thereof refers to the positive parts of events...the negative ones I call misfortune. Of course a lack of fortune can be seen as misfortune, which is why both are still connected.
*Sasha Lilias*: And how has it affected you?
 Shadowseeker: I think I have experienced both fortune and misfortune, but that I feel fortunate, because I am happy most of the times. [/log]
[log=Assira the Black]
Assira the Black: Hmm... Fortune is something that I either are affected by it or make it. Though in the end, I chose whether I allow it to continue to affect me. What happens happens... 
*Sasha Lilias*: Hm. So you're saying you may control your fortune? Or the end effect it has on you? 
Assira the Black: Both. There are different kinds of fortune. 
*Sasha Lilias*: Indeed, there is the "force" of fortune and there is the materialistic. I am speaking of the first, however.
Assira the Black: The force of fortune can still fall under, "you may control your fortune or the end effect it has on you". An action taken or something happens to a person, it depends on how that person sees it in that moment.[/log]
Azkhael:We project our expectations upon the world, blind to the world as it is. If what then ensues betrays said expectations, that is what we then perceive as fortune or misfortune. Without said betrayal, there can be no abnormality in our view, and hence and we would not think of fortune in the first place. Fortune is, hence, the surprise of the expectant blind, such as we always are. 
We can reduce the role attributed to fortune, by bringing our expecations closer to the world as is, but we are mostly blind through that process. To do is to better understand the world. We can also manipulate the positive and negative attributes of fortune by bending our own expectations. 
We likely cannot do away with the perception of fortune without fundamentally altering our mind through more physical means - if such is possible. Regardless, we are fascinated with that moment of betrayal, obsessively so -Were it not so, lotteries would hardly be as widespread an enterprise. 
As for how it has affected me, I'd consider myself fortunate, though said perception is already the byproduct of my experiences in life, and hence an enclosed conclusion. 
I was fortunate because I believe I was fortunate, and I believe I was fortunate because I was fortunate. Rather insane a conclusion, it might be said. In effect, that means I was born into the same sect of society that largely passes broader society its symbolic paradigms. My social experience has, consequently, always been the constant reaffirmation of those very paradigms, rather than conflict between them. 
 It is, again, an enclosed conclusion - my ideal expectations of how my life should be and how I ultimately perceive my life are very close. Though not completely so, of course.
*Sasha Lilias*: In the very shortest explanation possible - you believe that fortune, and whether it is perceived as good or bad, is down to us? The individual? Though our individual views are affected by those around us. The "societies" we live amongst? 
Azkhael: Ah, but that is the misconception - though it is we that claim whether there was bad fortune, good fortune, or fortune at all, we are hardly such heroic entities. With your later comment, however, it is accurate. [/log]
Orvid:"Fortune" and "luck" are nothing but names given to explain the varying outcomes of a situation influenced at levels imperceptible and difficult for a normal person to control. In reality, fortune/luck can be controlled, but it takes a highly skilled person in order to do so to even a minor extent.
 In otherwords, because luck is relative, it is still present even in a skilled person. The level at which luck works for such a person is lower. 
*Sasha Lilias*: If you control something - and know the outcome - that then becomes a definite, not a possibility. 
Orvid: To others however, what is "luck" has not changed, so it is still known as luck to them. Thus, even if it is controlled, it is still luck. 
I say they are names because it is my belief that everything that has, and ever will happen is pre-determined. If you knew the exact state of the entire universe, you could then predict what would happen, but, as long as you are on the same plane of existence, that prediction would effect the outcome, and it is not possible to factor that into the prediction in a finite state. 
*Sasha Lilias*: Ah I see. So you believe that fortune, luck and such names, are merely titles we give to a pre-determined fate or 'destiny'? 
Orvid: Yes, however, I also am of the mind that we should never make a decision based on that fixed nature. 
 I suppose I did just explain how it effects me. Although I know the universe is fixed, I treat it, and luck, as if it is not. 
*Sasha Lilias*:You accept it as it comes, yes? 
Orvid: Yes.I also anticipate both sides, good, or bad luck, and am willing to take action to change a percieved outcome, which is part of what I meant by not acting on the fact the universe is fixed. [/log]
*Nimrodel*: Fortune I believe is a term we attribute to random incidents which work in our favour or against our favour. 
Now.. the way I see it, Fortune depends a lot on the level of your desire or the intensity of your will too. 
Me..? Initially I used to believe a lot in the luck element. But then later on I realised that the concept of fortune is very...discontenting. It often leads to envy. And occassionally depression. For instance, if I desire one of your prizes so much that I put in like 100% effort, and someonelse gets it, lets say because of a chance element, One is bound to get upset the idea of 'unfairness'.
So yeah. I have felt cheated before. But then after sometime I learned not to believe in that theory at all. Though some part of me still leans towards that Idea, I constantly keep brainwashing myself not to think about things that way. Because if there is anything that I have learnt, most of the fortunate situations can be attained through increasing the amount of hardwork :P
So yeah. I chose the way of the donkey to the way of a... Lucky rabbit? :P
*Sasha Lilias*:So you believe that the expectations of "expecting" good fortune often leads to negative feelings if a positive outcome, as expected, does not happen? 
*Nimrodel*:Yes. Thats a time tested theory :)
*Sasha Lilias*: And so you, personally, like to "go with the flow" and not project such expectations to prevent yourself from feeling disappointment?
*Nimrodel*:According to me go with the flow would be more like accept the whole concept of fortune and curse fate when you dont get what you've wanted. I chose the other way. To counter the state of discontent by getting what I want through Hardwork :) [/log]
[log=Generous Madmen]
Generous Madmen:Fortune is what I unconsciously believe, and shape world accordingly. It helps me to have fun in life. So, what I mean by shaping? You have some beliefs, and unconsciously follow them, choosing one action over another, or seeing world from particular angle. To be fortunate for me, is to match my way of thinking (and as a result action) with ways of world, as I can't control all my mind.
I was fortunate to gain happiness from my last relationships, to draw them in in first place, and with least sacrifises end them. I'm unfortunate, as I can't see clear path in front of me, so I need to change something. If I want to meet Fortune again, I need to make some subtle changes - even drinking more water, and smiling to people on the streets can change her mind. 
*Sasha Lilias*:So you believe that you may control and shape your fortune to some extent? 
Generous Madmen: Yes. 
*Sasha Lilias*: Yet is it still luck or chance - as the 'force' of fortune is often known as - if you are swaying the balance in favour of one rather than the other? If I rig a die so that I know I'll get at least one six out of two, is that still luck? Or would luck be throwing two equally unbiased dice and hoping for two sixes? 
Generous Madmen:You gave me words of same meaning. For me, it is neither, as I try to match Fortunes ways with mine. It may be luck or chance, as you may call it, but even that choice shape reality.[/log] 

*Syrian*:fortune is what azull gave me when he helped me when i was new (and gave me a reason to stay) , i owe him lots and lots and i was fortunate to have met him. It is the nice things that people do to others.
*Sasha Lilias*:Mm, might you expand more? Perhaps on how you were fortunate or how he made you so. 
*Syrian*:Because he looked after me, and taught me things that i didnt know, and he was very nice and friendly 
*Sasha Lilias*:So, in your eyes, fortune is about the good deeds that others do? 
*Syrian*: And yourself too! because you can give it to people too 
*Sasha Lilias*: And how has fortune affected you? By teaching you things you didn't know before? 
*Syrian*: It helped me learn things and it gave me a chance to be somebody (he gave me direction) [/log]
 Aeoshattr:Fortune? A lovely word, if you ask me. I do consider myself an unfortunate man... after all the hardships I had to endure... But pleasant or not, the endeavours did leave me wondering... 
Do we make our fortune ourselves, or is it something that is simply bestowed upon us at the whim of some... deity. And are our misfortunes... truly misfortunes, or do we gain something, despite the inconvenience?
I am uncertain. But I would say... I believe "fortune" is something that one has to strive for. Whereas misfortune is what one receives for not striving and awaiting for some long-dead divinity's help.
*Sasha Lilias*:So you believe that fortune and misfortune are two separates? Not one but polar opposites? 
Aeoshattr:Yes and no. I would say they are opposites in the sense that one is active whilst the other is passive...But very, very rarely does sheer, spontaneous fortune occur upon one. 
*Sasha Lilias*:I would like you to note that I talk of the "force" of fortune, not large sums of money - in case you think that.
Aeoshattr: Indeed. And I believe the force of fortune is something that... takes into account one's desire and effort. 
*Sasha Lilias*:And how has fortune had an effect on you? 
Aeoshattr:Ah... I would say misfortune likes my company... Rather than fortune. But I was a hopeless, weak man. I let myself be swept by the waves. Fortune has shown its face to me once I stood up. I have been accepted as a citizen of Necrovion, for one. Which has... helped me settle.[/log]
MRAlyon: Fortune is imaginary, something we created for make difference from bad things... fortune is just a word that symbolize more we don't understand the real value of things around us now 
we think that things like water, food are normal to have in home.. we don't really understand how we are lucky to have got what we actually have, since we don't lose it we create our fortune with decisions of every day.. can't wait that fortune will comes to him/her .
I consider myself a lucky guy also if something is gone wrong... this helped me to grow and become strong.. and I'm sure bad things will continue to happen like lucky ones:-) 
 *Sasha Lilias*:So you believe that our perceptions of "fortune" and "luck" are misconceptions? That they are merely words we have created to describe a difference between good and bad? 
MRAlyon: Not wrong perception , just that we created them for believe in somehing. Fortune is like gods; you believe in it or no 
*Sasha Lilias*:Do you think the thought of "good fortune" is perhaps a coping strategy for some then? To make them less worried about the bad? 
MRAlyon: Yeah... for deal wih bad things [/log]
Dark Demon:A stroke of good luck that allows things to occur with relatively less effort than usual, hence giving an advantage. I cannot recall any time where I was... "blessed"... with good fortune all my time I've been here. And I do not expect to. The life of a demon is a curse... 
*Sasha Lilias*:So, you see 'fortune' as an act or occurrence of something "good" - a "blessing"? 
Dark Demon:I do. To me, fortune is so distant that in order to recieve that stroke of good luck in the first place, I'd need to be very fortunate indeed. [/log]
[log=blackshade rider]
blackshade rider: I feel "fortune" is in a way directed towards karma or is linked to it. Persay due unto others as you would unto yourself. I try to always be kind and keep good karma around me and i seem to be blessed with good fortune from time to time.I feel even if you are a good person and keep good karma you can still have misfortune.
So in a way i also feel fortune is also linked with luck and bad luck just as i feel karma is linked to fortune i also feel all four " fortune, karma, luck, and bad luck " are all connected and each 
*Sasha Lilias*:You believe that if were always creating bad 'karma' then I would be attracting negative fortune/luck/karma onto myself also? 
blackshade rider:i feel it can fall into place. may it be something small or big yes. i feel if you put out bad karma negitive things can happen. Example: I smack you cause I'm mad and fortune puts me in jail. 
*Sasha Lilias*:Mm, interesting. Though one could argue that, due to your knowledge and understanding of a punishment set for taking such an action, you would be 'choosing' to ignore it and continue anyway? You may reply to that or you can choose to say how you feel fortune has had an effect on you. 
blackshade rider:i feel it has been kind to me. but also at times it has been mean to me. so over all i would say my fortune is fair. it goes both ways [/log]

Change:Fortune is circumstances, the particular arrangement of the world. Sometimes it's arranged in a way beneficial to me, sometimes not. As for how it's affected me... For example, there was apparently a 'golden times' in MD before I was born. I was unfortunate to miss it, but I was also fortunate to have been able to gain a fresh perspective because of it. 
Other examples can be told as simply how 'life' has affected me. That is all.
*Sasha Lilias*: And if I were to say to you: ""Fortune" and "luck" are nothing but names given to explain the varying outcomes of a situation influenced at levels imperceptible and difficult for a normal person to control." What would your response me to that? 
Change:Yes, although sometimes fortune is easily changed. 
 *Sasha Lilias*:How can one change their fortune? 
Change:By making decisions. 
*Sasha Lilias*:So you believe one's decisions may alter their fortune?
Change:Yes. One may choose between two equal paths, one ending well, the other--not. Though sometimes one is forced to choose a particular path.[/log]
JadenDew:mm well for that one word it could mean two things to me.. fortune could refer to "wealth" .. or "luck" 
For the first well.. one's standard of living is often dependent on how much they can spend... the second is.. more complex. 
Things that happen to you that you can't really tell where they come from.. so people tend to put it as coming from "luck"; many times because these things that result from "fortune" are.. unintended initially -like the cause of what happens to them... 
I can't really strictly say it "affects" me because its like.. a placeholder.. 
*Sasha Lilias*:So you believe 'fortune' or "luck", as a force, is merely a way for us to try and describe something that we do not - or cannot - fully comprehend? 
JadenDew:most people see it as a force yes.. although sometimes the truth isn't that simple as some sort of poweer behind..but yes its a way for people to.. make sense of things they can't normally comprehend [/log]
[log=Eara Meraia]

Eara Meraia:I see fortune as a desirable but non expected outcome. we often plan things to go one way or another. If it works it isvnice planning. Fortune is a good outcome without planning beforehands, how it affects me...I am not very lucky in general so I am uised to rely on my own strengh...this has good and bad sides ofc , because one misses a lot pleasant surprises but also avoids running into bad ones.
*Sasha Lilias*: *nods* So you see fortune as a good thing, so long as you do not expect something? 
Eara Meraia:i see fortune as an unloyal friend...but yeah your last statement is also true.[/log]
Asthir:Fortune represents the interference of a random number of happenings one has no, or can't attain control over, within a separate random number of happenings one does have control over. 
How has it affected me? 
Many seem to think that the good fortune evens out the bad, eventually. For now, I'll call out utter rubbish on that claim. So far, for me it's been a lot of even ground, very few climbs, and enough slippery slopes to give the first two a run for their money.  [/log]
 Gljivoje:I see fortune as something we perceive like that cause we want to give it a greater meaning than grief and depression. I think its much about ones perception, but all things are balanced in my mind... ... so luck is balanced with unluck through our lifespan. It can be in great interval or in short one, depending on our individual perception of it. 
I usually try to look wider and ahead so when something good/luck happens, I'm ready for bad happening who's bad as this something was good, and with such notion in mind I narrow my perception of both things, trying to be closer to balance and not give much energy to both, luck or bad luck, 'cause eventually I develop both sides the same way. Indifferently trying to receive both sides with.. 
With such outlook, I noticed form of foreseeing the coming of luck when something bad occurs, and notions of bad when I experience luck or joyful effects on my being.
*Sasha Lilias*:So you believe the concept of good or bad fortune ultimately comes down to the perception of the beholder? Yet you also believe a sense of 'Karma' extends from this also?
Gljivoje:Indeed, I see perception connected to material doings. [/log]

Edited by Sasha Lilias
fixed as requested
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All in all, interesting responses and views.

The one issue, at least from my point of view:

  • The lockinchaos "punishment" was easily overwritten by leashes, jumping, spells, etc etc and I believe that defeated the purpose, which, I imagine, was to not allow the participant to gamble again for the duration of the spell? The punishments just seemed redundant.
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