ghost/supernatural

[stormrunner]

many people believe in the supernatural, some say anyone who talks about it is dumb or crazy but there is some science behind it tell me what you think about and if you know something about the scince share it with us I know a little but not enough to really talk about it to much

[wynken vanaril]

I enjoy bringing this up because it puts closed minded atheists off balance, but anyone who would argue in favor of modern physics must concede that the supernatural exists. By definition, supernatural pertains to anything beyond nature, and nature defines only what is within our universe. By virtue of the Big Bang theory, the universe had a beginning, which means that we must conclude that something existed and very likely still exists beyond our universe.

It's basically the cosmological argument...but certainly proves the existence of the "supernatural".

Also, another point that's interesting to mention but has nothing to do with the paranormal is that statistically it's impossible that our planet is the only one with life. Our solar system has 1 out of 9 planets (8 now poor pluto) with life, and astronomers have witnessed what they believe to be hundreds of planets throughout the clearly visible solar systems that surround our own. If the 11% within our solar system holds true, then even if only 100 more planets exist at least 11 of them have life on them.

[Treehill]

Lol really poor pluto why they made that to him...he was like a pet for the class........

[Gotta b b]

I think its beyond our grasp to declare it real or unreal, as there is no way to prove the supernatural to be impossible, although some biased and shallow sighted professors would like to think so im sure.

I'm quite open to the idea that the supernatural is real, and until someone gives me an explanation, i seem to have no reason to think otherwise.

[Sol]

Supernatural things are things beyond nature as Wynken says, and I do believe that there are some kind of life out there as the universe is huge and is still expanding so I think there would be a chance there are lifeforms somewhere in space.

But I don't believe in ghosts and things like that.

[sanguinious]

i am strongly against the idea of god but ghosts may possible, but not in the way we think them as

[wynken vanaril]

[quote name='sanguinious' post='18635' date='Oct 19 2008, 06:24 AM']i am strongly against the idea of god but ghosts may possible, but not in the way we think them as[/quote]
Care to back either claim up?

[stormrunner]

yeah I am listening lets hear it this is why I started this topic

[Udgard]

I.. will say that both God and those ghosts/spirits exists.

[Bootes]

I definitly Believe in the Supernatural, though in Exactly what is hard to say.

Most of my Belief come from times when I was young when I had a Dream of something that Later Occurred (I Swear, this actually happened).

Also there have been many times when I've had those Eerie moments with Friends (Especially those friends you've had for Years) When they call me just as I was calling them, find we've had very similar dreams, and other various things.

Then there is of course just those other Random coincidences that Occur in life. You know the kind I mean, when you stumble on something, or something happens that is just "Perfect" for the line of thought you were on or whatever.

As far as Ghosts, I'm a little more dubious, but I do think it perfectly possible that a person's "Imprint" is left on a place in some form or another. But I for one don't like the idea of my "soul" or whatever being trapped on the Earth for eternity.

[sanguinious]

well ,I heard(from someone I cant remember) the universe was all linked together by a sort off ,mesh of energy we cant see, and ghosts and spirits are just this energy that has somehow grown so dense in a particular area that we can see it or it disturbs the physical realm

[wynken vanaril]

[quote name='sanguinious' post='18772' date='Oct 22 2008, 11:26 AM']well ,I heard(from someone I cant remember) the universe was all linked together by a sort off ,mesh of energy we cant see, and ghosts and spirits are just this energy that has somehow grown so dense in a particular area that we can see it or it disturbs the physical realm[/quote]
Sounds like metaphysics to me. I think Carl Jung delved into weird stuff like that, as did Drunvalo Melchizedek. It's actually quite interesting if you research it. It has a great deal to do with sacred geometry, and something referred to as Christ Consciousness. From what I recall, they believe that not only is everything interconnected but that everything and everyone has an individual job that satisfies the whole. Just like cells that make up organs and organs that make up systems and systems that make up our bodies, our individual bodies also play an important part in a larger whole. It also has something to do with man's next evolutionary leap from 44+2 to 46+2 chromosomes...which is where the band Tool came up with the name for their song, Forty-six & 2.

In any event, there is supposedly an energy grid that exists above the Earth that will be "connected" or some jazz upon man's ascent to the Christ Consciousness stage. Each of our previous evolutionary stages supposedly also had varying degrees of consciousness beginning with Neanderthals at 42+2 and modern man who possess 44+2.

Here's a quote from Melchizedek on the topic:

"There are three totally different kinds of humans on the Earth, meaning that they perceive the One reality in three different ways, interpreted differently. The first kind of human has a chromosome composition of 42+2. They comprise a unity consciousness that does not see anything outside themselves as being separate from themselves. To them, there is only one energy - one life, one beingness that moves everywhere. Anything happening anywhere is within them, as well. They are like cells in the body. They are all connected to a single consciousness that moves through all of them. These are the aboriginals in Australia. There might be a few African tribes left like this. Then, there is our level, comprising 44+2 chromosomes. We are a disharmonic level of consciousness that is used as a steppingstone from the 42+2 level to the next level, 46+2...These two additional chromosomes change everything."

Researching Carl Jung a bit may give you some insight into various aspects of my character's role as well...one of my titles is gleaned from his terminology.

[mech]

i think that it is possible to havre supernatural beings, with so many supposed sightings and encounters, but still, it could just be a trick of the eyes.

[Blind God]

[quote name='wynken vanaril' post='18444' date='Oct 14 2008, 06:26 PM']Also, another point that's interesting to mention but has nothing to do with the paranormal is that statistically it's impossible that our planet is the only one with life. Our solar system has 1 out of 9 planets (8 now poor pluto) with life, and astronomers have witnessed what they believe to be hundreds of planets throughout the clearly visible solar systems that surround our own. If the 11% within our solar system holds true, then even if only 100 more planets exist at least 11 of them have life on them.[/quote]

The 11% rule is silly (i forgot the word).
First of all: it is a rarity that a planet hold water in it's liquid form (i.e. not mars, its frozen there)
Second: Only a few hundred planets have been seen that even have the possibility of holding life.
Third: It took us about 2 billion years and like 20 mass extinctions to have our first developed cell. Let animal and sentient life; which took about 4.6 billion years.
SO: I think that maybe 0.5% of planets hold life. Most of which are very ver very very very very very very very very far away; being that we live in the suburbs of the galexy and the nearst might only take light 30,000 years to get to. We would have to create some alternate form of transportation to ever be able to contact them or prove that the planets really have life.

...

Kinda Depressing...

[Sandra Klien]

[quote name='Blind God' post='20625' date='Nov 22 2008, 11:53 AM']Kinda Depressing...
[/quote]

It's only depressing if you let it be .*grins* For all we know life can be sustained by factors unknown to us by non-carbon-based lifeforms. *shrugs*

Anyway, I have never found any proof that ghosts exist, but I have found myself jumping at things in the dark (all of which can be explained logically) and developing panic attacks for no good reason. Thus I am lead to believe that most things supernatural are just part of our imagination and the imagination of others passed down through the ages.

Some things can be explained if you look at it in the right way (be that physically or mentally). For example, people thought for centuries that the earth was flat. If you were able to look at the earth from space you can see that this is not true, but they didn't have this technology back then. Their ships were probably not made for long voyages across the ocean, nor did they have a great enough motivation to continue after weeks of sailing. (this is just speculation, I'm not a history buff or anything, so I can't tell exactly why they thought it was flat) There's also the fact that those who thought differently from the norm were likely to get hanged.

*looks at the time* Best I get going, I may continue, but for now this shall suffice *grins*

[Zantek]

I do beilive in god- for I'm a christian- and the bible says that
you serve your afterlife in heaven. Even Still, I think that there could be a right formula
in a gohst that would make sense in the boundary of science.
(Yeah, you're response will be "Screw the Bible!" )

[dst]

Actually...why the bible? [spoiler]Find a woman for god sakes![/spoiler]...Jesus!

I know...completly off topic but he provoked me.
I will go and be ashamed for 10 minutes in a corner of the room.

[awiiya]

I'm a firm believer that science and humans in general cannot explain all that exists, just as we cannot fully understand ourselves.

We cannot fully understand our minds, we can only fully understand things that reside on a simpler plane that our brains. For example, animals, and even more simple, such as flies, we can get a good idea of what controls their genes, their thoughts, emotions, etc. As for the human body, there are as many mysteries, if not more, as there are answers.

So, it makes sense that there would be things [i]more[/i] complex than our minds, and that we would be unable to understand them. I believe Ghosts, higher powers, among other phenomena (gravity) are impossible for the human mind to comprehend.

It's interesting that we know more about the force between the smallest molecules than we do about the force that keeps us on this Earth. If you're into physics, I'm talking about the Grand Unifying Theory.

Awi

[Burns]

It's not only about comprehending, but even grasping things that are more complex than the things we know...
We know a lot about the forces that work on earth and can explain them quite good because it's what we call physics, which is the sum of all things we can understand. All the rest, the meta-physics, is just such things we can't fully grasp, but just their physical appearances.
I don't belive in ghosts, but i belive that there is a species on earth which is greater than ourselves, which doesn't want to have any contact with us, just like we don't want to have any contact with ants. That species might be very small, or very big, or invisible to our eyes, as there is a whole lot of waves we can't see with, and communicate in a range that we can't hear, and therefore we have no idea about them, and what they do, and whenever we realize something strange happening, that's just something 'they' did, like an ant would realize it if you step into their hill, but wouldn't understand how or why it happened.

Feel free to laugh about me, but that's what i think, and we are the dominating species only among those creatures on earth we already found and understood, and those species above us just don't like our meat, or they keep us as pets because we can build cities and then destroy them again, and they think it's funny to watch us doing so... and maybe they sometimes cause a little earthquake when they feel that there was no war for too long, and they want something to watch (rebuilding LA, or fighting the fires in australia, or even bombing gaza, whatever satisfies them...)

[Perlesvaus]

Between the various phenomena that are attributed to "something that the human mind cannot explain", ghosts and spirits are probably the ones that can be acceptable to a wider range of people.
After all, our experience shows us that people [i]die[/i], this is one of the few certain facts of the world. The possibility that [i]something [/i]of these dead people remains in our dimension is not too far-fetched compared to other supernatural-related theories.

I also think that the possible existence of ghosts does not even have a big impact on our belief in afterlife, the two things are not necessarily related (I guess it's not to difficult to devise the idea of ghosts as an unknown kind of energy, or as "echoes" of events past, or a thickening of yet another kind of unknown energy during particularly emotive events). This simplifies the religious dilemmas a bit.
In general, ghosts can be explained in many ways (supposing they are real and not generated by allucinations or mass hysteria), I can think about several myself. I think it's difficult that these "theories" can explain everything, though.

Personally, I'm not completely against the idea of ghosts, I can define myself as a "healthy skeptic", even if some events give food to thought. In my personal case I even have a "real event" that I can bring as witness, even if it didn't happen to me directly but to one of my cousins. Usually I don't give much credit to stories told by other persons, but in this case I know my cousin to be... let's say, not particularly gifted with creativity, so I tend to believe her


Note: of course I am speaking only about ghosts in the strict sense, not on other supernatural forms as nature spirits, or supernatural creatures as elves and such.
P.S.: Awi, true that we don't know the GTU, but we cannot really say that we don't understand gravity, just we cannot fit it in a global scheme with the other forces ^^

[awiiya]

Perles, we truly don't know how gravity works. All we have is a formula for how much force two objects exert on each other, and a model proposed by einstein which deals with matter making dents in space. What gravity actually is, we don't know.

Awi

[Ancient]

I Believe in the supernatural. How can humans even hope to know what is and isn't here in the universe.

anyways one of the big reasons i believe in the supernatural was a freaky(scarred the living sh*t outa us-at least for a lil while)- experience i had using an oujia board with my couzen.

[Tzaroth747]

Ghosts: Real or unreal? If I told you they were real, would you believe me? Probably not. What one needs is to SEE it for oneself.

Seeing is believing -- so, I propose a challenge:

Go to a wooded area at sunset. Walk around the trails, find a spot that you feel comfortable in. Wait for the sun to go down, then engage in an activity that will make you very emotional. This is the challenging part, right? Dancing works for me, I put my walkman on, get into the music, and a few songs in, I'm living the music and am totally amped up. Then the fun stuff happens. Think of something you could do in an outdoor environment, where you can more or less stay in the same spot, but get really emotional. I'm not talking about remembering emotions, or thinking about feelings, but really feeling them -- with all of the physical changes that go alongside them.

Ghosts are real, and they really like human energy. The more emotional you get, the more energy you will be radiating to your surroundings. Think of it as a ghost-attractor, like a giant energy magnet in the woods, drawing them to you.

It's all well and good to trade ideas on an online forum about the reality of the supernatural. But I for one think it's infinitely better to seek the truth for yourself. And having found my proof, I'm sharing an avenue to find it for yourselves.

If anyone is serious about this, PM me before you go. I have a few tips that will come in handy if one decides to grace you with its presence.

[stormrunner]

run like hell is something you could do or sit and have a chat you may even learn something if you talk to one

[apophys]

Let me tell you my experience with supernaturals. Late one night, lying down alone in a half-awake dreamlike state, I felt a sudden indescribable feeling that rendered me immobile. For some reason I had my underwear in my right hand hanging over the edge of the bed above my head. As it slipped from my grasp, I heard a scream that sounded like air being let out of a balloon. After I regained mobility, I composed myself and went back to sleep. In the morning I looked behind the bed.
No underwear. ;
If I had not proven it did not occur, I would have sworn that it was real. The human brain is incredible.


This topic would be better placed in another principle, probably imagination; it has nothing to do with science unless there is documented evidence of supernaturals.

I do not consider things beyond the known universe as supernatural. I believe string theory (as presented by Brian Greene on "Nova", a show on PBS), which suggests that only gravity can pass from one parallel universe to another.

[quote name='Perlesvaus']we don't know the GTU, but we cannot really say that we don't understand gravity, just we cannot fit it in a global scheme with the other forces ^^[/quote]

[quote name='awiiya']Perles, we truly don't know how gravity works. All we have is a formula for how much force two objects exert on each other, and a model proposed by einstein which deals with matter making dents in space. What gravity actually is, we don't know.[/quote]

We also have the recently introduced string theory, which in fact does unify the governing forces, and describes the graviton as a closed-loop string of energy. More info:
[url="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/"]http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/[/url]