Alliance Ranting

[SoulTear]

STF don’t you control morpheous? And weren’t you the one that sent someone to the dream world a while back for insulting you using that character?

If the dojo really is irritating you guys and you are finding things are getting dull rather then complaining on the forum you could always try to start a movement against it or even an alliance that is made up of dojo breakers. I’m sure dst as the ‘villain of MD’ and STF the ‘veteran warrior’ could pull something like that off. The dojo is after all a social movement rather then a game feature so you can oppose it in game even though it has Manu’s approval so you guys shouldn't despair.

A while ago when I was thinking of how I could develop my character to become an RPC I came up with this idea of creating a hardcore warfare alliance (no I’m not talking about the ‘Bersrkers’ that was earlier) focused on duelling and based out of Necrovion (that was before I joined the Guardians of the Root). I was working on an outline to send to Manu with background, purpose and my new persona and powers but then before finishing it I decided to abandon the project because I could no longer play MagicDuel enough due to real life issues to be able develop such an alliance and character. Right now I can only play for a short time during the evening where I live and it isn’t likely to get any better any time soon but probably worse and after all we wouldn’t want another BigC/Wodin incident. However if you guys are looking for an example of an alliance that can really stir things up I could post the incomplete outline on the forum, Necrovion board maybe? Better then letting it go to waste I guess. All alliances around now are either defensive or passive in nature and none of the current alliance proposals are really much different either. We could use a truly aggressive alliance or group of people to make things interesting because they have gotten rather dull lately.

[Liberty4life]

yea war ) its boring i wanna watch some blood from vip lodge XD

[dst]

An alliance would be out of the question (I think that we already have too many alliances and STF is not willing to join any alliance -or this is what I know). Also we are few that will militate against this dojo thing so we will not succeed (players are too lazy to have it in different way -they like the warm and cozy dojo). What I will probably do is just ignore the rules of the dojo and pretend that it doesn't exist. Even if this will mean entries in my public log or being put in a dream.

[STF]

[quote name='SoulTear' post='20956' date='Nov 27 2008, 10:52 AM']STF don’t you control morpheous? And weren’t you the one that sent someone to the dream world a while back for insulting you using that character?[/quote]

nope

i know of a player being banned though for writing stuff on my log, among other things, but i did not do that either.

[SoulTear]

Hmm… well when alliance system was first tested there were like 30 of them created about 5 or 6 for each land but they had smaller memberships being limited to 5 members and then later 10 members. So there were many small alliances rather then a few big ones. I think it was better that way, made things more interesting.

Right now GG looks like it will have 3 alliances, Loreroot 3 (with the coming of the Children of the Eclipse), MDA has 2 and so does Marind Bell leaving Necrovion with just 1. I think if each land had at least 3 alliances then things would be more fair and balanced for everyone. Each land certainly has enough history behind it to warrant that I think (except maybe MDA).

I suppose I should probably stop here because this is really veering off topic but I just have to ask why are you so intent on there not being anymore alliances dst?

Anyway I decided I would post my outline for the alliance/RPC idea I had on the Necrovion New Player Roles and Legends forum. I did put some work into it and wouldn’t want that to go to waste. Maybe it will inspire others to create some more original and game based ones then most of what has been posted on the alliances board lately. Note that I’m not trying to have it created or change my role if I were I would have sent it to Manu already rather then bothering to post it here. Here it is the ‘Valkyries of Violence’:
[url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com//index.php?showtopic=2877"]http://magicduel.invisionzone.com//index.php?showtopic=2877[/url]

[Udgard]

Sorry, a bit OT, is the artisans based on MB or MDA?

[SoulTear]

Forgot about the Artisans they are MDA so that means MDA has 3. Soldiers of the Inner Sun are the second Marind Bell alliance I believe or are they GG?

[dst]

I have several reasons why I don't want (for the moment of course) more alliances. I will try to explain a little bit:
1)Being in an alliance is a privilege not a right. Alliance leaders should choose their members carefully (based on their own rules, needs, etc) and not permit anyone in. With the current number of members in the alliances (50 i believe) the leaders struggle to fill the places (since the number of active players is still small) . I have seen alliance with inactive members (the leader had to kick them out). This is not right!
2)You all talk about role playing. Some of the "wannabes" (alliances I mean) have no purpose (as in no role) not to mention a story. This is if you want against your all praised role playing.
3)The rules for the alliances are not well defined. Think at this scenario: the DS have one of the best bonuses (if not the best in all the alliances/guilds). What if I bring a mp3 in it? That mp3 will be god among the other mp3s. Believe me: you don't want that.
4)My own selfish use: having more alliances means more alliance members means less battles I can fight (ok..I am exaggerating here )

[Liberty4life]

nope mda has 5 alliances (archies, tellers, artisans, inner sun, and shifters), mb has one alliance, the seekers, and it will remain in that way

[Udgard]

Oh, inner sun has moved then? Anyways, inner sun was originally from MB.. dunno now though..

[Liberty4life]

idk, click on shoeps or mur and read what is his homeland, but in MB guilds i dont see inner sun

[SoulTear]

Sorry about the off topic response but I just couldn’t keep silent about this matter. I won’t make anymore alliance related posts in this thread I promise

[quote name='dst' post='21103' date='Dec 2 2008, 01:06 AM']I have several reasons why I don't want (for the moment of course) more alliances. I will try to explain a little bit:
1)Being in an alliance is a privilege not a right. Alliance leaders should choose their members carefully (based on their own rules, needs, etc) and not permit anyone in. With the current number of members in the alliances (50 i believe) the leaders struggle to fill the places (since the number of active players is still small) . I have seen alliance with inactive members (the leader had to kick them out). This is not right!
2)You all talk about role playing. Some of the "wannabes" (alliances I mean) have no purpose (as in no role) not to mention a story. This is if you want against your all praised role playing.
3)The rules for the alliances are not well defined. Think at this scenario: the DS have one of the best bonuses (if not the best in all the alliances/guilds). What if I bring a mp3 in it? That mp3 will be god among the other mp3s. Believe me: you don't want that.
4)My own selfish use: having more alliances means more alliance members means less battles I can fight (ok..I am exaggerating here )[/quote]

1)Why is that not right? You don’t seriously expect people to be playing MagicDuel forever do you? And while they do play they have the right to experience everything this game has to offer I think, seems to me your just threatened that more people will encroach on your ‘privilege’. Its inevitable people will play then get tired of it then leave and maybe come back or maybe not as happens to RPCs and to alliances members alike. Even I as the oldest still active player have my limits.

2)Well MagicDuel is a role playing game and the alliances (really they should be called Houses as they were originally but at this point even Manu doesn’t call them that anymore, you can only see evidence of that piece of history from the ‘oneness of your housing’ statement) are supposed to represent some aspect of the world. If you prefer a game where only number crunching matters maybe you should play a pure strategy game. Though I would have to agree that some of the current alliances aren’t really as well integrated into the world as they could be though I won’t name names

3)So is that why you joined the Shifters for their bonuses? I was always wondering why you joined them when you had no interest in helping people teleport which is what they were originally created for doing. At first when I was close to joining them myself I thought you were a Necrovion spy (since that was you previous alliance). You can ask simplyzero about that if you don’t believe me but I decided against joining back then because of that 1 hour delay to attack which would really cramp my reactive style of play (which was to set up strong defensive rituals and let others attack me and lose for wins and before you ask yes I have finally given in and use lame decoy rituals on defence now except in the heads contest sometimes).

4)Cant say much about this except that I hope you don’t get your way


[quote name='Liberty4life' post='21188' date='Dec 3 2008, 05:57 PM']nope mda has 5 alliances (archies, tellers, artisans, inner sun, and shifters), mb has one alliance, the seekers, and it will remain in that way[/quote]

How do you know that that is the way it will remain that way? It seems strange that Manu would create a system where you can have multiple alliances per land and then just allow a single and lets face it rather dull (at least lately) alliance in Marind Bell. There is lots of alliance ideas I can think of just by reading Adi’s notes on MB. I can think of 2 alliance ideas right now that would be appropriate for Marind Bell:
- An alliance focused on protecting it like the Guardians are for Loreroot or the Guerrillas are for GG (The Seekers from what I know are focused on contacting the Angiens and learning from them rather then really protecting Marind Bell) and it defiantly needs protecting.
- An alliance focused on actually saving Marind (an very important yet much neglected character outside of story mode) from Necrovion’s clutches and finding her murders. Such an alliance could be more aggressive in upsetting the Shade’s balance in Marind’s favour, Marind Bell from what I remember Manu saying was always supposed to be a more oblique land then Loreroot or even GG.

[Glaistig]

I petition the divergent discussion to be spliced off as another topic in the Alliance forum because I want to contribute to it. After I do my homework, though.

Come on, mods. You should have done this a long time ago anyway. >_>

[Glaistig]

That's an interesting topic name, but well, yes, you've made Gla exceedingly happy. d-(n_n)-b You're always dependable, Che; my favorite of all the lame mods. Most people never receive my double-thumbs up emote w/ parenthetical enclosure, you know.

Anyway, I was posting to notify everyone of the sorrowful news that I probably won't finish the aforementioned homework until at least Wednesday and probably later. I know how much we were all rejoicing to hear Gla's voice on the forums again, but school happens and it can't be helped. Wouldn't want everyone to hang in bewildered suspense in the next few days, so now you can all hang in [i]regular[/i] suspense until the promised post arrives.

Until then, my dejected subjects!

[stormrunner]

ok not that this is no longer off topic

[quote]How do you know that that is the way it will remain that way? It seems strange that Manu would create a system where you can have multiple alliances per land and then just allow a single and lets face it rather dull (at least lately) alliance in Marind Bell. There is lots of alliance ideas I can think of just by reading Adi’s notes on MB. I can think of 2 alliance ideas right now that would be appropriate for Marind Bell:
- An alliance focused on protecting it like the Guardians are for Loreroot or the Guerrillas are for GG (The Seekers from what I know are focused on contacting the Angiens and learning from them rather then really protecting Marind Bell) and it defiantly needs protecting[/quote]

lets see my alliance protecting innocent no matter the cost marind's bell reason for being provide a safe haven for the kind hearted(from the talked about notes) yep it on the list and at this point the bell will be the homeland if it becomes a real alliance hell when I first started trying to make it I ask the seekers for some support they said no because they didn't like something about my alliance


[quote]An alliance focused on actually saving Marind (an very important yet much neglected character outside of story mode) from Necrovion’s clutches and finding her murders. Such an alliance could be more aggressive in upsetting the Shade’s balance in Marind’s favour, Marind Bell from what I remember Manu saying was always supposed to be a more oblique land then Loreroot or even GG.[/quote]

I knew there was a reason I worship you if mur would let it happen I even have a theory on how it could be done hell it be fun if marind become like wodin is now, though that means we have to kick ren out her room though actual that brings up a nice idea if marind can be bought back that means Daniel Raven, Heellena Wasspe, and Gabriel Wind can all come back to which may have some nice effects ranging from shades showing up again to even older more fouler things hey maybe even the Angiens will come out of hiding

[SoulTear]

Thanks Glaistig and looking forward to your post though why did they have to call it alliance ranting? This is an important topic which needs to be addressed (ie should there be more alliances?). I think yes especially for Necrovion and Marind Bell which are lacking (Is it really fair for Loreroot a GG to take up all the alliances?).

~cuted out, i sent you pm because i didnt wanted to speak about that in public, please respect my decision

~Thats why I didn't quote your pm but just paraphrased your arguments quoting my own reply to you because I made some counterarguments there that I didn't want to make again should someone have said the same things as you. I think I have a right to quote myself don't I? Nevertheless if even that is too much for you then I will leave it as is after all your a mod and I'm not.

[dst]

1) You don't expect EVERY player to get into an alliance, do you? Just because you made it to mp5 (it's a fact that most alliance members are mp5s) it's not a guarantee that you will be in an alliance. There are few mp3s in alliances (and they are there for a really good reason) and also some mp4s (most of them should be mp5 but they prefer staying mp4s for their own reasons).
2)Useless to comment on this point.
3)Yes Aqune! You got me! I joined DS for their bonuses! Yeeey! I was only looking for my personal gain as usual!
As for you joining DS..that's a different story (maybe I should not say this but I will anyway). I was the one who asked simply not to recruit you. I was the first DS simply recruited and after that he showed me the list with the other players that wanted to join. I had nothing against anyone except you. He recruited the others but I specifically asked him not to recruit you. So cut the cr** about not joining because of bla bla. Feeling better now? I hope you do.

[SoulTear]

That’s not completely true, its certainly not what simplyzero told me, you really are too full of yourself dst. I’m sorry to say I wasn’t fully honest in my previous message because I didn’t want to start a flame war between us but now that I KNOW you have a vendetta against me (I have suspected for some time but I was never sure and I even thought about burying the hatchet which is why I made that dojo post in the first place even though Calyx was becoming a friend of mine) trying to single me out and are working actively to hurt me in particular in the game so I really don’t care anymore. This is the complete truth as far as I know it:

A long time ago after simplyzero completed his first quest (the multi-quest with the cipher at the end) that I completed but not in time unfortunately so I didn’t get the reward. Anyway after simplyzero sent me a message telling me I was too late I sent him a reply expressing my disappointment he in turn sent me a message asking me to be his ‘assistant’ as the ferryman because I lived in a different timezone as him and could teleport people to Golemus that weren’t around when he was. I was so honoured by this request that I became his adept and have remained so ever since but told him no because I thought this would make me an RPC and I was not ready for that kind of responsibility yet.

Anyway later when simplyzero went about forming his new alliance (which I figured was for the same purpose though alas it doesn't seen to be anymore ) and stated in his personal papers that those that wanted to join should prove themselves to him I saw an opportunity to become his assistant again since now I was ready for that responsibility. So I made up the MD geography quest that you can now see on my personal papers to impress him with and sent it to him telling him I was capable of making many such quests for my role (I was still thinking “simplyzero’s assistant” must be RPC). After that I didn’t get a response from him and saw in my outbox that he didn’t read my message so being pretty patient I thought he was busy and waited for him to respond. Then sometime after that he recruited you and I sent him a message saying (I’m paraphrasing):
“Well I sent you a pm about my interest in joining, why haven’t you answered it or invited me yet? I thought you wanted me as your assistant before? And oh I noticed that dst has joined you and I really don’t feel comfortable being in an alliance with him since I can’t trust him, personally I think he is Necrovion spy”
So then he replied telling me:
“Yes that’s why I didn’t invite you because I knew you didn’t want to be in an alliance with him and would you like to act as my spy in another alliance instead? And get information for me?”
Then I replied:
“Well all other alliances are filled now but I will send you any info I happen to get”

So that was that and since then simplyzero has always been friendly too me and teleported me to GG whenever I wanted such as when I was doing that map quest for Metal Bunny so I just always assumed he had by best interests at heart when he told me he didn’t want me to join and that he didn’t kick you because he didn’t want to hurt your feelings which is why I remained his loyal adept even though he wasn’t very active and other people (most notably Junior) were giving me all kinds of offers to become there’s but now I don’t what to think anymore

Just what do you have against me dst? What did I ever do to you? Was it just because of that one time I criticized your conduct in the heads contest back in May or June cause you seem to have had it in for me ever since. Are you that petty and childish that you can’t take some criticism? Because you know I wasn’t the only that thought that was dishonorable there was shadowice and Laz and few others but most quit playing by now and now I can see why. With people like you running this game it isn’t all that surprising and I’m really thinking of joining them now and Glastig in inactivity (seriously how can you succeed in a game were one of the game’s staff has it in for you and isn’t even professional enough to keep it out of the game?) What did Manu ever see in you other then a professional cheater that could spot bugs well. Putting you in charge of bugs is like putting a professional thief in charge of making security systems.

If you were looking to make me feel bad dst then you have succeeded I hope your proud of yourself. This whole topic has depressed me (((((

That’s what I get for trying to help you and STF with my anti-dojo alliance idea, though I suppose ultimately its better that the truth finally came out for all parties concerned so thank you for finally being honest dst and confirming my suspicions (for alas it is all to often lies and illusions that keep people from hating each other). I have to say though that even when simplyzero sent me that message confirming that I better not join I had nagging feeling you had something to do with it and it was not just him confirming my requests which seemed just too convenient but I let it drop because I respected simplyzero and didn't want to question his honesty.

I think I will take some time off for now because I no longer feel welcome in MD.

[dst]

Aqune, our "conflict" dates long ago. For a while I forgot about it. I just didn't care anymore (better things to do then fight you). But almost every time I do something you criticize me, every time I say something you have something against it. Fortunately MD is big enough for both of us. So I propose you this: you ignore me and I ignore you. If it will be the case (probably since we both have a role in this game) we will work together for the good of the game. But I will try not to cross paths.
If you quit, you'll not solve anything. You still have your role and Mur trusted you. Think at him and not at me.
This is my last post on this topic regarding this subject. If you want to continue the discussion we'll use the PMs.

[Glaistig]

Sho, I was like, yeah, I finished work yesterday and I was logging on and writing, "Yea, and for you I hath labored to deliver an early fulfillment of our covenant" but then I forgot what I wanted to write about in the first place. Sorry, probably the effect of several all-nighters in a row.. why did I even post in the first place? It shows that I was not in a sane condition, and yea, in retrospect, I had pulled an all-nighter that very day I posted. In any case, I was like, I must not disappoint my already-dejected subjects, I must write something absolutely magnificent, so I must spend some time to deliberate upon this subject. But I'm afraid dear Che will close this topic in no time at all considering the mutation the discussion underwent, what with Aqune-dst squabbling like two pitted siblings, so I must hurry and therefore you must deal with a hashed-up blather. Nonetheless, I imagine, very worthy in brilliance.

So, anyway, I was thinking, alliances are very cool. They are like mini-factions that represent real ones in real life--but they aren't the only form in which players can form polarized groups, nor should it be mandatory that one join them. As in real life, there may be benefits but there are also fallbacks. So what discussion is there to be had about alliances? If people want to form alliances and be an official group, then there are alliances. True, our absolutist king may decide whether or not they deserve officialdom and endorse them with bonuses such as stats and certain powers, but it is all still alike to a society--that group can decide to be underground/unofficial as well. Perhaps Manu, our Holy Lord, is the sole arbitrator in deciding the requirements for an alliance and he may be wrong in judgment (as dst says), but I still think alliances are a very cool aspect of the game which just makes it simulate a real-life society even better.

I have three minutes before the bell rings and that's nothing at all for me to write all I want. Chewwiiie, please let me edit in more later on before you close anything D: just think of all the people who want to hear my wise words.. don't deprive them! In the meanwhile, I must say, Aqune-dst argu was very endearing and I should be quite disappointed if it has already ended so soon, quite sad, continue if you will oh, bell rang, must go...

[Chewett]

[Redacted]

Edited December 18, 2012 by Chewett
Redacted

[Glaistig]

[quote name='Glaistig' post='21704' date='Dec 10 2008, 11:15 AM']Sho, I was like, yeah, I finished work yesterday and I was logging on and writing, "Yea, and for you I hath labored to deliver an early fulfillment of our covenant" but then I forgot what I wanted to write about in the first place. Sorry, probably the effect of several all-nighters in a row.. why did I even post in the first place? It shows that I was not in a sane condition, and yea, in retrospect, I had pulled an all-nighter that very day I posted. In any case, I was like, I must not disappoint my already-dejected subjects, I must write something absolutely magnificent, so I must spend some time to deliberate upon this subject. But I'm afraid dear Che will close this topic in no time at all considering the mutation the discussion underwent, what with Aqune-dst squabbling like two pitted siblings, so I must hurry and therefore you must deal with a hashed-up blather. Nonetheless, I imagine, very worthy in brilliance.

So, anyway, I was thinking, alliances are very cool. They are like mini-factions that represent real ones in real life--but they aren't the only form in which players can form polarized groups, nor should it be mandatory that one join them. As in real life, there may be benefits but there are also fallbacks. So what discussion is there to be had about alliances? If people want to form alliances and be an official group, then there are alliances. True, our absolutist king may decide whether or not they deserve officialdom and endorse them with bonuses such as stats and certain powers, but it is all still alike to a society--that group can decide to be underground/unofficial as well. Perhaps Manu, our Holy Lord, is the sole arbitrator in deciding the requirements for an alliance and he may be wrong in judgment (as dst says), but I still think alliances are a very cool aspect of the game which just makes it simulate a real-life society even better.

I have three minutes before the bell rings and that's nothing at all for me to write all I want. Chewwiiie, please let me edit in more later on before you close anything D: just think of all the people who want to hear my wise words.. don't deprive them! In the meanwhile, I must say, Aqune-dst argu was very endearing and I should be quite disappointed if it has already ended so soon, quite sad, continue if you will oh, bell rang, must go...[/quote]

So anyway, I approve of alliances as a factor of MD as a society, but that doesn't really mean I encourage them either. I just don't think alliances as a single unit should be stifled; if one is bad in some way or the other and despotic King Manu still favors it, it can stagnate or be opposed by another alliance/unofficial group/single person. You can see this thought in the following ways I respond to dst's specific points:

[color="#000080"]1)Being in an alliance is a privilege not a right. Alliance leaders should choose their members carefully (based on their own rules, needs, etc) and not permit anyone in. With the current number of members in the alliances (50 i believe) the leaders struggle to fill the places (since the number of active players is still small) . I have seen alliance with inactive members (the leader had to kick them out). This is not right! [/color]
I think organizations can choose whatever members they like, even not carefully. If they struggle to fill the places and have inactive members, then that makes them weaker; maybe they will fall apart on their own or another alliance (ohhh, a terrorist alliance *_*) can demolish them. Otherwise, they still have the right to exist; maybe they will succeed.
[color="#000080"]2)You all talk about role playing. Some of the "wannabes" (alliances I mean) have no purpose (as in no role) not to mention a story. This is if you want against your all praised role playing.[/color]
Aww, dst, you're bitter about roleplaying as I am. n__n Anyway, why not let pointless organizations prosper? King Manu approved them; if you strongly disapprove of them, you might garner his approval for an anti-pointless alliance or oppose them some other way. If you don't strongly disapprove and just think they're pointless, you can just ignore them. Regardless, does this mean that potentially meaningful alliances should be denied existence? I don't get that logic.
[color="#000080"]3)The rules for the alliances are not well defined. Think at this scenario: the DS have one of the best bonuses (if not the best in all the alliances/guilds). What if I bring a mp3 in it? That mp3 will be god among the other mp3s. Believe me: you don't want that.[/color]
I get this one a little more than the others. But.. truthfully, do you think Manu will ever get to implementing alliance rules? Or any time soon? Do you think that alliances should therefore not exist if/until that happens? I don't think anything will happen in terms of that unless some fiasco arrives, personally, and even then, I don't know if anything would happen; maybe it should be up to the players to do something about it (besides disallow alliances in general). I wouldn't let this one stop me from creating another alliance if I wanted to.
[color="#000080"]4)My own selfish use: having more alliances means more alliance members means less battles I can fight :p (ok..I am exaggerating here :) )[/color]
Valid.

I think, dst, maybe you just dislike alliances because most of the ones you see aren't very veritable in your eyes, but condemning them all? It's like hating on MD's whole community of people just because most of them roleplay in a manner you really, really can't stand.. :P

Oh, and Aqune, if you quit, I need contact info.. :))? As a sidenote, Aqune is right; I quit because I disliked the community in general and therefore the society they created, which is kind of like quitting because of a single individual who has lotsa influence. I also mistrusted Manu's direction.

But, personally, I'm very fond of dst, and I think it's entirely valid of him to have made personal retribution, even if he did use whatever special powers he gained from being a bug reporter--which I didn't perceive. Remember the occurrence with Ren taking action against a mp3 account because of personal conflict? That's pretty much the same as what dst did except Ren [i]did[/i] use his rpc powers, yet my efforts to change MD society by imposing some regulation on rpcs managed nothing.

Validity isn't the same of liking, and in fact I feel like reprimanding him for being so testy and irrational (how mean, dst!), but what he did isn't much different than another player telling his friends to attack his enemy as often as possible or something like that. It's reasonable to quit/take a break in response to it, but I don't recommend leaving with a bad taste in your mouth. I'm fond of you, too, Aqune; maybe you two should try see if you can contemptuously like each other despite visible fault in the other. Both of you are very likeable for Glai.

[dst]

From my point of view it's useless to talk anymore about this subject. I have stated my point of view about alliances. It's not in my power to stop their creation - at least for now- (or to slow down the process) but I can at least speak my mind out.
As for Aqune, I think I already told you what my course of action will be.

[awiiya]

Although I'm not anywhere near as experienced as the others in this thread, perhaps the view of a newer player would be useful?

I like the number of Alliances right now, and I like most of the Alliances in that number. However, new Alliances are somewhat useless for groups that really want to accomplish something, and if a group truly doesn't, then they could easily join another. I think this because without the extra baggage that inevitably comes along with an Alliance, a group of people are more reactive and malleable. The leader then is not determined by loyalty, which can be overthrown and is a poor indicator of leadership, but by respect, which is much more secure and telling. As well, I think that the true groups that influence MD are the ones that are the best hidden. If a group becomes an Alliance, their actions also become more public, and it makes draws too much attention which takes away from the ability of the group to focus on their goal, because then there is the matter of politics, which can take up all free time.

In short, Alliances are for show and to give bonuses to players that are "trusted" by the community, because you have to have been active at one time to be accepted into an Alliance. In my opinion, there are enough variability in the Alliances that most of those trying to get Alliance-hood can much easier fight under the roof of another Alliance, and furthermore if that group is serious, they will be much better served without an Alliance.

Awi

[Burns]

hey, there are also people seriously influencing the game in allies!! =P

plus, you will have to give in that the ally chat is useful for planning things with more than one or two other people =)

but imo, most players who want to form new allies are driven by a desperate wish to be a leader, not matter of whom...
i never heard someone saying that 'there should be an ally for XYZ, but i don't really mind that matter so much...'
they all say 'we NEED an ally for XYZ, just look at my role, i need such a thing to play', and by saying that, they mean 'i want to be leader and feel strong and talk about things i don't really know with all the other ally leaders'

Now, that's nothing against you Aqune, mainly because your ally would have actually had another purpose than just making you leader, and i'm sure that you wouldn't have minded giving leadership to anyone as long as you get the official right to kick everyone's butt xD

But most ally purposes i see round here (as most other new ideas, for that matter) are driven by really selfish reasons... people want spells so their role finally works out, people want to get improved stats without farming them, and they want to become gods of mp3/4 with those spells and bonuses, just to show the world how great they are...
Looking at the spells people want, i can't see a single spell out there that's NOT built to win combats with it, and especially in a HC, that powers will be abused. Now, i don't mind what people do with their spells, and if that blacksmith guy makes me drop my weapon, well, i'll just go buy a new one, and if people get spells to enhance their def, i'll kill them off with life stealers and so on, but in the end, most new ideas are just there to make people feel stronger than others...
same goes for new allies, of course xD

ps: yes, i'm in GG, and it's mainly about being selfish and not getting attacked that often because we don't do that much things atm, but also a little bit because newbies know that i know what i'm talking about when helping them because i have the fancy GG logo =P

just my opion on that matters, feel free to flame me if you don't like it =D