Amoran Kalamanira Kol Posted May 20, 2009 Report Posted May 20, 2009 This is from the first election of office. After this Shadowseeker, who had been voted in as General left the CoE and we were left without a General. The council that was elected got together and had a meeting as soon as they could to discuss a presidential leadership role. Thus Karak was voted in as council president via the votes of all those who reside on council. We encouraged people in each lorerian alliance to vote. Ultimately it was up to them who was elected and why. [u]Speaker of the Law Votes[/u] --------------------------------------- Gremlin 3 Karak 8 Luci 3 Windy 2 Ibruzu 1 [u]Speaker for the Root Votes[/u] --------------------------------------- Sagewoman 3 Firsanthalas 12 Luci 2 [u]Sheriff of The Root Votes[/u] --------------------------------------- Udgard 1 White Reaper Siala Lone Wolf 5 Ibruzu 10 [u]Warden of the Root Votes[/u] -------------------------------------- Luci 6 Karak 4 Lady Renata 3 Windy 4 Those who voted: Lady Renata Karak Mya Celestia Shadowseeker Dark Mystic Luci Ibruzu Raven Gremlin Logan Kala Clock Master MWBrady Firs Siala Phantom Orchid Legna Currently we are without a General or a Speaker of the Law. Elections for speaker of Law are being held currently. Also I must apologize for my delay on posting these results. zalabar 1
Tarquinus Posted May 20, 2009 Report Posted May 20, 2009 Clarification: General is an appointed, not an elected position.
Root Admin Chewett Posted May 21, 2009 Root Admin Report Posted May 21, 2009 Question: Overall how many people could have voted on this issues? im guessing around 30+?
Tarquinus Posted May 21, 2009 Report Posted May 21, 2009 That sounds about right. Mya Celestia might have a more precise number.
Akasha Posted May 21, 2009 Report Posted May 21, 2009 [b]Errr first:[/b] i numbered 17 and those 17 are on the elected lists that is not a fair vote/election how do you want to call it. Plus 17 is not enough for such a 'big' number for such a big organization. [b] Err second : [/b]Shadowseeker was left in that position from Knaty. [b]Errr third :[/b] As i understood you have the council from each super extra ally so... now Were is the Savel person in the High Council? [b]ALL IN ALL : the votes and the High Council should be elected again, but this time correctly, like Pamp. pointed and you dismissed her immediately, i suppose she is no longer your backup for saying that an archivist was aware of the election [/b]
Burns Posted May 21, 2009 Report Posted May 21, 2009 as much as defending someone else is against all my principles, you might want to check the flaws of democratric systems before asking the lorerootians to redo their election... ad 1: 17 out of 30 make a turnout of 56,6%, which is quite good for an election in general... eg, Obama has been elected with a turnout of 56,8%, that being one of the highest turnouts in modern american history... you could obviously argue that a democratic system is not flawless, and a lot of factors make people not go to the elections, from political disappointment over mere disinterest and logistical problems to the possible threat of force being used against you if you dared to vote (most african states have a turnout well under 30%), but that is no real problem for the decision made... ad 2: it's questionable whether you can be in Kelle'tha's Order and still be military commander of loreroot... i guess the lorerootians think he can't, while you think he can... interesting political question =) ad 3: another very intersting point, seeing that Savel's Church has 3 members, one of them loyal to LR, but leader by an overthrow that was done in wartimes... another one an LHO, loyal to Grido, and the last one a guy who unfortunately was not accepted by my fellow GG-members because he joined right after that war-thing... so whom of them would you like to see in the LR HC? :lol: and now to my personal view: those elections still need to be redone imo, because for a game community and the time that was given for the elections, that turnout is too slim to form a stable council, and so is the number of people who voted... i think that the council has to be elected by all lorerootians to be stable, and not only by those who were active in an ally beforehand... that would be like having an election were not the people, but only the known supporters of the existing factions vote LOL
Akasha Posted May 21, 2009 Report Posted May 21, 2009 i said that 17 was the only ones that voted, as Amoran stated...so 17 from which 2 or 3 are not in the 'possible elected' is not good. Please note that if it is about to come with outside examples about politics, Loreroot is like a country side from Romania. Loreroot is a part from MD, not an independent country. What happenes there affects all MD Realm and it is important for all the MD not only for the Loreroot council like it appears. When Raven wanted to be elected, he had a fair voting system. Why? Because everybody could state it's opinion on why should be or why should not be. What is the important thing that needs to be corrected and fair is that the ones who need to be elected NOT to vote. And if you take a closer look at that list, everyone is everyone best friend. So it is not a neutral loreroot council like it was supposed to be nor Loreroot High Council is like it should be since the beginning. But again, there are no records about that. :diablo: PS: Shadow entered the Order AFTER he gave his retirement.
Burns Posted May 21, 2009 Report Posted May 21, 2009 oh, then i guess i misinterpreted your critics here... and you are semi-right in your opinions, politicians can vote for themselves... as you say, the greater problem is that almost only those who could be elected themselves bothered to vote at all, so the democratic legitimation the HC is struggling for is non-existant in my opinion... i think that the people elected by the lorerootians could serve quite good as a candidate-list for a vote that is /should be coming up, like saying that 'nominees for diplomat: Firs, Luci (??) and Sage' and then the poplation of loreroot/MD [whichever you like, in real democratic decisions also the voices who argue against the regime have an opportunity to vote, though that's not a must-have for a game-realm imo] can do an election... that would be a HUGE logistical thing to pull off, but the best you can do for having an election =))
Tarquinus Posted May 21, 2009 Report Posted May 21, 2009 (edited) "Luci" would be myself, Lucius Tarquinus. I tolerate all manner of irritating nicknames, for to condemn them is to give them power over me. I fail to appreciate how the election of the Lorerootian Council affects all of MagicDuel in the sense that everyone in the realm is entitled to a say in who sits on that council; but whether I appreciate it or not is immaterial. The electorate of Loreroot itself declined the continued assistance of Pamplemousse, voting overwhelmingly (mine was the only dissenting vote) against opening the elections to the entire realm of MagicDuel for voting. As Burns indicated in the first place, the turnout is high for a democratic process. No one can be forced to vote, which is a privilege and not an obligation. I dislike the democratic procedure of the Lorerootian Council, and I wrote it. Why? Because the residents of Loreroot wanted an inter-alliance, Lorerootian Council and a charter for that council. Given to my own devices, I would ignore the Council and tend only to the Eclipse, which is a theocratic dictatorship run by myself and LunarGoddess, the Sibyl. I participate in this "Council" in the interest of harmony, and because I personally promised Nelya Setesh, all those months ago, that I would. This nonsense about the politics of Loreroot has placed inordinate and inappropriate demands on my time, and I am no longer interested. If you wish to convince someone that the Lorerootian council [u]needs[/u] to be re-elected, convince the others. Convince Amoran, Firsanthalas, Ibruzu, and Karak. Convince Siala Lone Wolf, Gremlin, Mya Celestia, Sagewoman, Windy, Lady Renata, and all the rest. I have said more than enough on this subject. Edited May 21, 2009 by Tarquinus
Liberty4life Posted May 21, 2009 Report Posted May 21, 2009 question: raven is necro, how in nine hells could he vote if he isnt loreroot anymore
Tarquinus Posted May 21, 2009 Report Posted May 21, 2009 At the time, he had not yet left the Guardians of the Root. This election happened weeks ago.
Akasha Posted May 21, 2009 Report Posted May 21, 2009 1 thingy : democracy is about to LET everyone to vote, not only few elected by you. Loreroot is a part of Magic Duel even if you try to make it private and not a land from MD it is, and will always be even if you like it or not. Since all the Loreroot problems started the tensions can be seen in all MD . Also, not only that few can't play their role because of hiding things, but also not seeing clearly some things, not accepting some known things is putting you all in bad lights. I am here since the beginning of the game and i know how it was supposed to be, how it can be and how it is... IT IS bad...worse then you imagine. Look around you and see with what people you are...the only ones that are staying there because of you, the ones that are trying to make something good, even if this means to argue and contradict you all ... is out..why? or you kick them or they leave for their own. Having alts made and get them in council or in Loreroot is not a good thing..it does not fill the missing spaces... Entering with candidates that are long gone again, a very bad thing. Every RPC can see who entered with Eden. I do not point to nothing more then...choose better ppl for the council, ones that do not lie, ones that are not closed friends of yours and will not *nod* at anything you say, but actual people with whom you can discuss things, ask opinon and even get a negative answer with arguments. A council should be made again, from people that are equal, act like equal and are not that closed to each other, that have nothing to do with each other more then Loreroot, council. People that are not afraid of a negative answer or a critic to you opinions, a council that is not afraid of PUBLIC elections, that is sure on it's judgment, that knows everything what is going on inside it and will never accept a council inside a council like you all have done. A council that does not use other names or does not use other persons in their own purpose, like you all done. Start being fair, listening to all of you (you= members from 'council') and those who are afraid to show something, think what you can do in that problem. Anyone that is afraid of showing something means they hide something and are afraid of what they hide.
Tarquinus Posted May 21, 2009 Report Posted May 21, 2009 If I feared negative opinions, why would I respond to you? I have no alts in Loreroot. You know this. I try to make nothing private. I take what I found when I arrived and I accept it. If you are saying I should not accept it and ignore what little co-operation remains in Loreroot, I am delighted to agree, for it has been nothing but a burden. What lies have I told you? What is it you think I am "afraid" to show you? I do not fear you at all.
Akasha Posted May 21, 2009 Report Posted May 21, 2009 When i say you, i not mean you in person, but you, the council members, and the ones that are on the voting list
Amoran Kalamanira Kol Posted May 21, 2009 Author Report Posted May 21, 2009 (edited) Akasha, do me and everyone a favor... _STOP_ turning this into a witch hunt and go find something better to do with yourself. I can't seem to post one frickin' thing without you or someone else shoving their nose into it and picking it apart. But I suppose that's how you run things, so whatever. Edited May 21, 2009 by Amoran Kalamanira Kol
Akasha Posted May 21, 2009 Report Posted May 21, 2009 Auch, you just pointed how much you love me, I knew that from the start. What is important here is not you, 'dear' Amoran Kalamanira Kol, but with what you play ... and what you (not personal refference) do wrong . Again, why are you (all) afraid of public? o, what are you hiding? Puppets ? Stealers? what? Lyiers? BTW: on me and the persons that speak with me this kind of text does not work : ''Now if MD wants to lose it's artists, very well- its on its way to doing so' but shows that you are weak and make a bad image.
Amoran Kalamanira Kol Posted May 21, 2009 Author Report Posted May 21, 2009 Akasha, we have been 100% honest with you and 100% honest with others. We have laid everything on the table before you and all you've done is point at it and rip it to pieces with snark little comments. So move on with your life and go do something more fulfilling than, say.. drive players away from MD? Yeah. That seems like a pretty good idea to me.
Akasha Posted May 21, 2009 Report Posted May 21, 2009 Well, if you would like to go, have fun in your life, i am willing to stay and point to your mistakes , again. Maybe you (council) tried to be honest but missed some points. Hmmm...should i ask why the votes (numebers) were not public to council members.. well the ones that you don't like until now? Or, no, i don't ask that quesion . Hmm or should i ask wha is this with 'only me and maybe 1 pers from council should know this?' oh ..no, that is not the council in council thingy, hmm or should i ask why you or who else gave Edens account to Renta which when asked at Goe why so much intresret ..should she be the one and she lied no, i am not the one usin that account ... that should be in the General possition... YES, i know things and these things should be made public so that everyone knows with who they are speaking and what kind of people are on HIGH places. The only persons that were clean you sent away because they did not listened to you. So, again : 'A council should be made again, from people that are equal, act like equal and are not that closed to each other, that have nothing to do with each other more then Loreroot, council. People that are not afraid of a negative answer or a critic to you opinions, a council that is not afraid of PUBLIC elections, that is sure on it's judgment, that knows everything what is going on inside it and will never accept a council inside a council like you all have done. A council that does not use other names or does not use other persons in their own purpose, like you all done. Start being fair, listening to all of you (you= members from 'council') and those who are afraid to show something, think what you can do in that problem. [b]Anyone that is afraid of showing something means they hide something and are afraid of what they hide. '[/b]
Mya Celestia Posted May 21, 2009 Report Posted May 21, 2009 [quote name='Tarquinus' post='31752' date='May 21 2009, 01:51 AM']That sounds about right. Mya Celestia might have a more precise number.[/quote] Please forgive my tardiness in returning these requested figures: Of the original 27 members of the Guardians of the Root alliance 11 voted 6 unable to reach 7 unseen 2 did not vote 1 retired Of the 16 members of the Children of the Eclipse at the time of the vote 6 voted 2 unseen 4 unable to reach during election 4 did not vote None of the Savelites or Creators voted
Akasha Posted May 21, 2009 Report Posted May 21, 2009 Hmm how manny know about your fantasy forum? how manny have access to that ? Hmm should i say that amoran kicked everyone out in fear of not to be taken over? (the alliance) and then gave invites to her friends, and after that the election started?
Amoran Kalamanira Kol Posted May 21, 2009 Author Report Posted May 21, 2009 (edited) [disclosed]: Akasha will never stop ? [disclosed]: should I just quit playing? That is all I have to say to you, Akasha. Your accusations fall on deaf ears, and you continue to make yourself look all the more ridiculous by continuing your well, pardon me.. "crap". Edited May 21, 2009 by Amoran Kalamanira Kol
Akasha Posted May 21, 2009 Report Posted May 21, 2009 Yes, i will not stop until you all will do it fair and stop lying ppl around and do your(persons not one specific person ) 'fantasy' things in MD. check the ppl that wanted to enter GOTR ally but were refused on the reason: 'Greetings Rhaegar. For now only Children of the Eclipse and Savelites Church are active alliances. Kragel has activated The Creators Guild. As you have been directed, talk to Tarquinus, Zleiphneir and Kragel. The Loreroot High Council will be having elections within its own ranks and until the results are finished, I do not believe that the Guardins of the Root will be recruiting. Please be patient. Sagewoman ' [url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com//index.php?showtopic=3316"]http://magicduel.invisionzone.com//index.php?showtopic=3316[/url] post 10
Tarquinus Posted May 21, 2009 Report Posted May 21, 2009 [quote name='Mya Celestia' post='31893' date='May 21 2009, 03:19 PM']Please forgive my tardiness in returning these requested figures: Of the original 27 members of the Guardians of the Root alliance 11 voted 6 unable to reach 7 unseen 2 did not vote 1 retired Of the 16 members of the Children of the Eclipse at the time of the vote 6 voted 2 unseen 4 unable to reach during election 4 did not vote None of the Savelites or Creators voted[/quote] Thank you, Mya. You have consistently displayed a cheerful and helpful attitude, and you have not shied from doing the boring legwork of trying to speak to all these people.
Kragel Posted May 21, 2009 Report Posted May 21, 2009 (edited) I'm just making a small point and i know all of lore mostly hates me for this but it is i think valid to mention.... Edit: not "all of lore" just those who continue to find fault anytime i post ... i mean no offense to those who have been my ingame family nor to my friends [quote name='SageWoman' post='28779' date='Apr 12 2009, 04:28 PM']Greetings Rhaegar. For now only Children of the Eclipse and Savelites Church are active alliances. Kragel has activated The Creators Guild. As you have been directed, talk to Tarquinus, Zleiphneir and Kragel. [b]The Loreroot High Council will be having elections within its own ranks and until the results are finished, I do not believe that the Guardins of the Root will be recruiting.[/b] Please be patient. Sagewoman[/quote] this being said does make it look as if you are refusing to allow any new blood in and in effect controling the elections ... this is too much like people saying well ill vote for you if you vote for me so we can keep the "house" pure... this is the some underhanded politics congress and the house in the US Goverment pull each day [i](and i truly hope this is not so and think it is simply an oversight)[/i] so i would suggest opening your doors in this so others who seek to be a part of loreroot also have a say and i beg to not be flamed for this im just trying to make a point that could help smooth things over Kragel The Metal Mage Edited May 21, 2009 by Kragel
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