Granos Posted September 27, 2009 Report Share Posted September 27, 2009 (edited) Im making this new thread to discuss the possible implications of Killing Wodin in regards to the shades as it was causing the other topic to veer quite offtopic.. [quote name='Liberty4life' date='27 September 2009 - 10:18 AM' timestamp='1254061125' post='42900'] wizard was dangerous, tiny ppl werent dangerous so tiny ppl taming drachs are still problem, but atm since everyone is killing them they cant balance nothin [/quote] That still does not address why the shades would send people to go kill the Golemus Wizard, It really doesnt make sense that they would do so with the intent of destroying themselves... And given that shades are suposedly "black water" would that mean that all "black water" would be removed as well? Including all Wind Drachorns? EDIT: I hope this makes more sense Edited September 27, 2009 by Granos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akasha Posted September 27, 2009 Report Share Posted September 27, 2009 Just to fast comment on a wrong supposition There is liquid dust and shades. Shades are a natural thing to the land of Necrovion. For a better understanding of what liquid dust is, i invite you to read the Order forums about that. Granos and Phantom Orchid 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty4life Posted September 27, 2009 Report Share Posted September 27, 2009 (edited) ya mean deathmarrow, not liquid dust right? edit: didnt saw akasha's reply Edited September 27, 2009 by Liberty4life Watcher, Death Bell and Phantom Orchid 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granos Posted September 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2009 Ah, ok thanks for clearing that up, I wasn't very sure on that specific aspect, too many rumor mills you know But, back to the point it doesn't make much sense for the shades to order to kill themselves no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akasha Posted September 27, 2009 Report Share Posted September 27, 2009 Ok, you have lost me long time ago..who said shades ordered to kill themselves? there might be some posts i did not read or not understood Granos and Phantom Orchid 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granos Posted September 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2009 As Liberty stated, killing Wodin would kill the shades, [quote name='Liberty4life' date='27 September 2009 - 09:23 AM' timestamp='1254057839' post='42885'] yeah awi thats it i agree, kill wodin, yeah cmon peace do it, kill wodin and with him all shades die as well as peace, nothin will remain that will oppose shades me votes for it [/quote] To which I replied: [quote name='Granos' date='27 September 2009 - 09:46 AM' timestamp='1254059163' post='42891'] Call me crazy but, Im pretty sure the shades existed before wodin, and would continue to do so if anything that action would weaken them, not kill them.. [/quote] To which Liberty replied: [quote name='Liberty4life' date='27 September 2009 - 09:50 AM' timestamp='1254059406' post='42894'] heh before was also golemus wizard alive [/quote] To which I am still trying to make sense of, given his logical structuring.. [quote name='Granos' date='27 September 2009 - 10:03 AM' timestamp='1254060219' post='42899'] Well under that notion given that the Golemus Wizard was the sole inhabitant of Golemus, if anything the shades should be even more powerful than ever given that GG is vastly inhabited now, why else would the shades send someone to kill the Wizard? I still really don't see how that would kill the shades but then again, Im crazy... [/quote] [quote name='Liberty4life' date='27 September 2009 - 10:18 AM' timestamp='1254061125' post='42900'] wizard was dangerous, tiny ppl werent dangerous so tiny ppl taming drachs are still problem, but atm since everyone is killing them they cant balance nothin [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akasha Posted September 27, 2009 Report Share Posted September 27, 2009 Let me get my thoughts in words... Ok, so i drop this lines: Wodin balance the shades because he was outside Necrovion/shades. Now there is a big problem and unbalance : Wodin is withing the shades control that means his power drops shades power drops. That means it is a wrong thing to Necro people and a good thing to anti Necro people. Correct me if i am wrong. Phantom Orchid and Granos 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granos Posted September 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2009 I believe that would make sense, but then the summoned army was still just as strong, as it was before, or perhaps this would explain why the shade sentinel did not appear at the stone of twisted souls during the burning of the cube? Ok so then I was correct in that based on the balance that killing wodin would not kill the shades merely only weaken them? So to be quite honest I am rather confused on the entire matter, logically one thing should happen but it seems to me that the opposite may be true (I need more coffee >_<) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty4life Posted September 27, 2009 Report Share Posted September 27, 2009 yeah akasha said it good, its all question would it just weaken them or completely wipe them out Watcher, Death Bell, Arianna de Montrève and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Udgard Posted September 27, 2009 Report Share Posted September 27, 2009 Personally, given that the shades was already there before wodin came to this world, I really doubt killing wodin will kill the shades. However, it certainly would greatly weaken him. As it was once said, if the shades are mirrors, then wodin is a great bright pillar of light to which the shades reflect on an became powerful. If the great light dies, then the shades will lose a large power source, yet the shades do not reflect on only wodin, and killing him won't kill the shades. Now that the light of wodin is controlled by the shades though, the shades are probably greatly weakened.. When wodin stopped going to war against them, the shades were greatly weakened, when wodin is under their control, inevitably they will get weakened even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akasha Posted September 27, 2009 Report Share Posted September 27, 2009 Oh and another minor thing to mention : Shades, are not alive so, they can't die .. Phantom Orchid and Granos 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Udgard Posted September 27, 2009 Report Share Posted September 27, 2009 Good point there O_o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty4life Posted September 27, 2009 Report Share Posted September 27, 2009 they can vanish dissappear or how ever ya say for undead things when they are no more Watcher, Phantom Orchid, Arianna de Montrève and 2 others 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nex Posted September 27, 2009 Report Share Posted September 27, 2009 (edited) V: some thoughts: 1. about all this killing wodin would kill the shades/peace/sentinels, etc... what you are speculating about is a thing of the past. do you really deny that the pillar of light that was wodin already disappeared? if this has weakened the shades or not is for you to observe. true, the puppet 'wodin' still remains, but are you seriously trying to say that it was his physical component and not the true soul of wodin, which is gone, that created the unbalance that strenghtened the shades? although my questions are rhetorical, i obviously do not have the answer to them. who of you can say they know 'for sure'? 2. wodin under the controll of the shades? ok, so the sentinels controll the puppet wodin now, and already learned how to pull some strings (yeah, you get the referrence). so, we agree that indeed the sentinels controll wodin, not the shades. i remember people stressing the point that the sentinels and the shades are seperate entities. and as we have seen from the attack of the summoned army against jester, current leader of the sentinels, they are indeed different to such a degree that it cannot yet be claimed to really understand the other. so again, my question. if you disregrad all the above and still assume the shades had controll over wodin, and that this would indeed weaken them to a severe degree, i ask you, why keep the controll? are the shades, them of all, slaves to their possession (and how else should i describe owning a puppet?) the following applies to both the controll of wodin and of the white: "you only own what you can take and hold. you only own that which you can give away. whatever you cannot give away owns you." Edited September 27, 2009 by Nex Phantom Orchid and Granos 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
princek Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 [quote name='Nex' date='27 September 2009 - 06:27 PM' timestamp='1254072462' post='42958'] V: some thoughts: 1. about all this killing wodin would kill the shades/peace/sentinels, etc... what you are speculating about is a thing of the past. do you really deny that the pillar of light that was wodin already disappeared? if this has weakened the shades or not is for you to observe. true, the puppet 'wodin' still remains, but are you seriously trying to say that it was his physical component and not the true soul of wodin, which is gone, that created the unbalance that strenghtened the shades? although my questions are rhetorical, i obviously do not have the answer to them. who of you can say they know 'for sure'? 2. wodin under the controll of the shades? ok, so the sentinels controll the puppet wodin now, and already learned how to pull some strings (yeah, you get the referrence). so, we agree that indeed the sentinels controll wodin, not the shades. i remember people stressing the point that the sentinels and the shades are seperate entities. and as we have seen from the attack of the summoned army against jester, current leader of the sentinels, they are indeed different to such a degree that it cannot yet be claimed to really understand the other. so again, my question. if you disregrad all the above and still assume the shades had controll over wodin, and that this would indeed weaken them to a severe degree, i ask you, why keep the controll? are the shades, them of all, slaves to their possession (and how else should i describe owning a puppet?) the following applies to both the controll of wodin and of the white: "you only own what you can take and hold. you only own that which you can give away. whatever you cannot give away owns you." [/quote] why talking about shadow and puppets. All this stuff are leaded by one will. Now, we've to find what or who is this will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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