New Concept Of Balance And Honor

[Udgard]

So while thinking about all the balance and honor problem, this idea popped into my mind. Right now, the number one problem to being balanced is honor problems, because there are a lot of loss>wins unbalanced people who give negative honor. The idea behind the current honor system is that if you have more wins than losses, than you are viewed as "strong" at that time, and defeating you grants more honor. But honestly, we know that right now wins-loss balance is almost not connected to strength at all in MD. So, why not make honor gains be based on how balanced someone is? If someone more balanced attacks someone unbalanced, they gain positive honor. Vice versa, is someone unbalanced attacks someone balanced, they gain negative honor. This will encourage people to stay close to balance. A person's balance is calculated by the absolute amount of win-loss difference they have

Example:
player A : 200 wins, 100 losses --> 100 absolute difference
player B : 100 wins, 90 losses --> 10 absolute difference
player C : 0 wins, 90 losses --> 90 absolute difference.

If player A attacks player B or player C, it will gain negative honor.
If player B attack player A or player C, it will gain positive honor.
If player C attacks player A, it will gain positive honor. If PLayer C attacks player B, it will gain negative honor.

The amount of honor gained/lost follows the existing formula, but instead of counting how many more wins than losses alone, now it count the absolute difference between those two.

Of course, some adjustments should be made. For example, those with more losses should gain less negative honor than those with more wins, because getting balanced when you are severely unbalanced is harder for loss>wins people (who need to farm wins) than for wins>loss people (who can just sit there farming losses). If it gets implemented, a global balance reset will also be needed to prevent excessive chaos. But nevertheless, I think the system can help encourage more people to be balanced.

Please share your opinions =)

[Burns]

That doesn't make sense to me...

being balanced implies strenght, i guess, as it takes strenght to be balanced, so shouldn't it be the other way round, and people who are balanced and attack unbalanced people lose honor, since they pick on people who are weaker than them?

while your system looks at first glance as though it would solve the honor problems of balanced people (which it most probably wouldn't, because you can throw people off-balance towards losses deliberately [at least some of our community can, pretty effectively] and have them unable to get honor, and in the long run unable to train anything at all because of honor issues), it causes a severe problem for people who get unbalanced accidentally, like any new mp5 will, and is totally unrelated to any strenght concepts the honor-thing was supposed to build upon :/

so... might be a nice start for further ideas, but in that setting definitely a 'hell, no!' from me...

[Redd]

I would have to agree with Burns.

Consider the extremes. Lets assume that in the kingdom, player R has the greatest win-loss difference, of about -3k(3k more losses). Since everyone else is more balanced than him, everytime he attacks for wins, he gains negative honor. By the time he reaches balance, his honor would be extremely low(if he gets -400 honor from a balanced player each fight, I calculate -100k+ honor). The only easy way for him to ba on track is to have 'in' attacks where he would win(and 3k of those). Consider also that in those 3k fights, he would gain nothing.

For the balance problems of the MP5s, the best solution I can see is for the new generation to start the adjustments.

I also have another idea, ind it would involve the guilds and their members. Since guilds can recruit MP3s and MP4s, whom are more overall more balanced, why not use them to farm honor? (Of course 'use' is rather impolite and disrespectful both to the guilds and the persons) So, MP5 guild members will farm wins, to be balanced, on other MP5s, then farm honor on the MP3/MP4 guild members. If most of the MP5 guild members are balanced, they can then help other MP5s in balancing themselves.
The problem I see in this is that, other than it takes time, is thet the oneness of the guilds will be hurt. In the subject of recruiting more lower MPs on guilds, I'm pretty sure there are deserving people among them.

I'm sure my idea would work, as long as everyone cooperates. I think cooperation was the root of the problem anyway.

Edited November 27, 2009 by Redd

[Grido]

your idea would also lead to the players that do get unbalenced being completly screwed, cos they'd never be able to get honor

[Udgard]

@burns: I am not relating the new idea to the concept of strength, I was just pointing out that the old concept of strength is no longer relevant with the current situation in MD (some of the strongest people has way more loss than balance). My idea is to make being balanced be something that is honored, and thus those balanced will gain honor from attacking those less balanced. Not because of strength, but because they do something honorable: being balanced.

@redd: 3k is rather extreme, even with the current situation, having 3k difference is already going to be giving a hard time. IIRC, there is also a kind of negative honor cap right now (5k-ish?), so it won't go as far as 100k negative honor. There is also a max loss more than wins caps right now (around 1k or 1,1k).

@grido: true, but it's already happening to those unbalanced with wins>losses. The difference is that now having loss>wins also yields the same results. Although, it is true that gaining wins is harder than gaining losses, and it will be harder for someone who has too many losses to get rebalanced.

That said, you've all shown that idea does still have a lot of potential loopholes and flaws, and will need a lot of improvements. THank you all for your inputs and comments.

[No one]

[quote name='Udgard' date='27 November 2009 - 08:50 AM' timestamp='1259304655' post='48557']
@redd: 3k is rather extreme, even with the current situation, having 3k difference is already going to be giving a hard time. IIRC, there is also a kind of negative honor cap right now (5k-ish?), so it won't go as far as 100k negative honor. There is also a max loss more than wins caps right now (around 1k or 1,1k).
[/quote]

the 5k limit is for positive honor
there is a limit of -500 honor and when you get below ... you no longer get stats

but ... you can get below. there is a player with more then 8k negative honor

[Redd]

[quote name='Udgard' date='27 November 2009 - 03:50 PM' timestamp='1259304655' post='48557']

@redd: 3k is rather extreme, even with the current situation, having 3k difference is already going to be giving a hard time. IIRC, there is also a kind of negative honor cap right now (5k-ish?), so it won't go as far as 100k negative honor. There is also a max loss more than wins caps right now (around 1k or 1,1k).

[/quote]

Yeah, I forgot. please forgive me. After 1k something losses, you won't get loss increment.
But I also want to add that it would still be hard because such players will get feasted upon by others since they give the highest honor.

Oh and anosuinc reached -9k honor.

[No one]

[quote name='Redd' date='27 November 2009 - 01:28 PM' timestamp='1259321286' post='48561']
Yeah, I forgot. please forgive me. After 1k something losses, you won't get loss increment.
But I also want to add that it would still be hard because such players will get feasted upon by others since they give the [color="#FF0000"]highest [/color]honor.

Oh and anosuinc reached -9k honor.
[/quote]
when you have more loses then wins you give LESS honor (as in negative)

[Udgard]

I think he means loss>wins as in my idea, because there people with loss>wins gives positive honor to those more balanced =)