Fierce needle of Feebleness

[lone wolf pup]

[color=#CCCCCC]Ann. 2022 - [2011-09-23 02:40:39 - Stage 11][/color]
[b]Fierce Needle of Feebleness - New legislator item[/b]
"A legislator item is an item that that uses the 'fight causes' to apply a very strong effect on a target player. The Fierce Needle of Feebleness will dramatically weaken a target, lowering all its stats by percentages based on the total number of cause fights fought against him. The effect can be much stronger than with any previous curse spell or punishment. A limited number of such tools were placed as shared items in MB. The effect type and power of legislator items will vary for later items and will even allow permanent stats damage to a target if enough people join a cause. Use the forum to discuss this item and its future implications on the gameplay."

Discuss your opinions of how it will effect future game play.

My own opinion, it will help the community punish those who they see 'misbehaving' or be used for silly game abuses! How fun, time to prod a few lovely ladies with it..

Edited September 23, 2011 by lone wolf pup

[Kyphis the Bard]

I think it will largely depend on how it interacts with the causes people fight for. For example, right now the text of that newspost suggests that it will have its effect regardless of whether people are fighting for the same cause against that person (ie three people fighting "4 teh lulz" and seven "To smite Evil" would give a total of 10 cause fighters).

There is also the question of how long the cause fights count lasts.

[nadrolski]

will there be any chance that the fight cause counts be reduced?

are the needle holders obliged to use their tools? what if there is a "top/high scoring" fight cause and needs to apply an effect to the person, and the tool holder decided not to use the tool against that target person, is there an action for the tool holder?

[lone wolf pup]

There is a set cause you need to use for it to count @Kyphis
You can use it or not use it however you want. Also, it require more than one person, so depending on who all are participating, you can partially choose who to effect it with. @nadrolski

[Muratus del Mur]

Lone wolf (my new item testing guinee pig) will pretty much be able to answer all your questions regarding new items. If anything uncertain he will ask me or i will answer directly.

[Kyphis the Bard]

Nifty

Still, how long does the effect of a cause fight last for? I assume until the trigger is out of the Trigger Box?

[nadrolski]

can anyone add a count for a cause, regardless if they do or do not possess a needle?

are the cause names with their corresponding counts (counters) viewable by the public? if yes, where? or are they just temporary effects like what boss Kyphis said?

for example, we have a fight cause named [i]killeno[/i], with 10 counts. needle A was used, will it consume the 10 counts and reset the counter to zero? i am thinking what if needle B, needle C, so on and so forth, are to use the same fight cause following needle A

and is it possible we gather/farm fight cause counts for days/weeks then use the tool until the people fighting for that cause are satisfied with the counts (assuming counters are permanent until consumed with the use of the needle)?

[lone wolf pup]

Cause fight lasting is based on item. This one is 12000 seconds.

Anyone can add a count towards a cause, and when there is enough count, the person with the needle uses it to activate the effect.

You can view how many causes in the trigger box with their names.

"for example, we have a fight cause named [i]killeno[/i], with 10 counts. needle A was used, will it consume the 10 counts and reset the counter to zero? i am thinking what if needle B, needle C, so on and so forth, are to use the same fight cause following needle A"

The fight causes stay after you use a needle, and hasn't been tested if you can use more than one needle for the same cause yet. Could try to find out.

"and is it possible we gather/farm fight cause counts for days/weeks then use the tool until the people fighting for that cause are satisfied with the counts (assuming counters are permanent until consumed with the use of the needle)?"

Counters only lasts around 10-20 minutes, not fully sure how long, and only a limited amount of uses with the needle (which I assume can be re-picked back up once fully consumed)

Sorry if that's not what you're asking, was kind of unsure.

Edited September 23, 2011 by lone wolf pup

[lone wolf pup]

Action code:
fightcause#Fightfor=weakening;Effect_won=percweaken;Effect_lost=percweaken;Power_won=11;Power_lost=5;
Minpeople=3;Maxpeople=25;Duration=12000;Amplif=1.2;
Max Uses: 10
Recharge rate: ~500sec
When consumed: returntogroup
Transferable: No
Group:Marindbell_pow

This is what appears when you grab the tool and sums up much about it. (Not sure if it's a spoiler to post it and should be removed if needed)

Edited September 23, 2011 by lone wolf pup

[xrieg]

Hmmm so there are two counters - people fighting and number of fights won/ lost while fighting for the cause? What phrases can be used for what effect for effect activation in fight cause box (I guess remove skilldamage. kill, scratch behind ears, damage stats etc show difefrent intention even if for the same person)?

Edited September 23, 2011 by xrieg

[lone wolf pup]

People fighting and whether they won or lost against the person. If more people won then lose, it is done by 11% per person, or not. I'm not 100% sure what the last few changes he made were. The phrase is set as Fightfor= and yeah I suppose it is used to show different intention on same person. I will go ask about the win/loss thing.

[Burns]

The item says it, you fight for 'weakening' if you want the fight to be counted for the ability to use the needle.

I'm also curious what the Amplifier does. Is there a stat for needle using, or does its power increase when more people fight (up to the max of 25)? Or something else?

[Pothos]

You know, that sounds alot like a Kzin Item called the 'Hot needle of Inquiry'

[nadrolski]

fighting for a cause consumes Heat, if it can also have a counter for heat collected, then use that amount as multiplier for the needle's weakening effect when used..

[Rumi]

With this device, a group of people could put a containment shell on Eon for a 3 hour period?

[lone wolf pup]

With enough people, sure.

[Muratus del Mur]

The nice thing about legislator items is that they have an effect also for lost cause fights not only for won fights. The lost fights will usualy weaken the target so that more won fights can be counted after. the needle is an exception actually because it has both effects as weakening. The won fights effect will usualy be a lot more serious for future items.

Won and lost cause fights effects will work together. For example if people can't win against someone they could move lock him, but if they win they could push him along the future heat veins..and so on.

Causes can be triggered by anyone with any fight. It is a group effort meant to show intention. It is a very communist item in a way

[Mallos]

How about adding another use to the needle. People could fight to 'disable' (or a similar word) the person, causing them to not be able to use any inventory items. This could help to deal with issues like Eon and others depleting resources in locations, and would pretty much complete all the ways you can really disable a player.

[Brulant]

[quote name='Falronn' timestamp='1327361950' post='102054']
How about adding another use to the needle. People could fight to 'disable' (or a similar word) the person, causing them to not be able to use any inventory items. This could help to deal with issues like Eon and others depleting resources in locations, and would pretty much complete all the ways you can really disable a player.
[/quote]

I'm liking the idea, but would rather see it as another unique legislator item instead of adding another use onto the needle.
1) It gives "police forces" another item for somebody to "be in charge" of. (rounding out the force, so to speak)
2) It makes people choose what they really want.
3) If it were a good idea to have all of the legislation effects on one item, we'd just have something like "The Legislator" that was completely controlled by fight actions and did all of the things, I think.
4) You can never go wrong with more shared items!

[Mallos]

I thought of having it on the needle (besides for simplicity) because then it would have weakening and disabling causes, and the land cleansers would have movelocking and the ability to move players, basically paring the two items could work great. But I do think having the effect on another item is a good thing as well.

[Kyphis the Bard]

You would also need to add in a few limitations, because it would be a heavily unfair item if it could also prevent the use of legislator items.

The simplest way would be to limit it to non-legislator items, and make items like the Mouth Sewing Kit and the functional Kingship items (like the citizenship granting ones) be made legislator type items.

[Brulant]

[quote name='Falronn' timestamp='1327373052' post='102071']
I thought of having it on the needle (besides for simplicity) because then it would have weakening and disabling causes, and the land cleansers would have movelocking and the ability to move players, basically paring the two items could work great. But I do think having the effect on another item is a good thing as well.
[/quote]

The reason that the land cleanser has two effects is so that something always happens whether your win or you lose. So long as you have a group large enough to use it, you can legislate people. The needle already applies its effect regardless of whether you win or lose, all that changes is the power. Adding another affect to the needle would be… overly supercharging it, I think. Not to mention that "Fierce Needle of Feebleness" doesn't exactly call into mind the idea of being unable to use your items.

Handcuffs? Straight-jacket? Repo Men? Tax Collectors?

(which makes me wonder if we could have a shared legislator item that repossesses, sends back to the item dispatch, one of someone else's shared items. To me, that's one of the logical steps of having a large operating "police" force. It would need a ton of people helping to work, though.)

Edited January 24, 2012 by Brulant