24/12/11 23:11] Soothing Sands:Would anyone but a piece
[24/12/11 23:11] Soothing Sands:buy*
[24/12/11 23:11] ignnus:5 sc
[24/12/11 23:12] ignnus:or heat or army stone
[24/12/11 23:12] Soothing Sands:hmm....
[24/12/11 23:12] Soothing Sands:send it over
[24/12/11 23:12] ignnus:sc?
[24/12/11 23:12] Soothing Sands:yea
[24/12/11 23:12] Soothing Sands:5 is enough
[24/12/11 23:13] :ignnus passed Silver coin to Soothing sands
[24/12/11 23:13] :ignnus passed Silver coin to Soothing sands
[24/12/11 23:13] :ignnus passed Heat stone to Soothing sands
[24/12/11 23:13] :ignnus passed Otherarmy stone to Soothing sands
[24/12/11 23:13] :ignnus passed Silver coin to Soothing sands
[24/12/11 23:13] Atrumist:Hey SS still you are giving teas?
[24/12/11 23:13] :ignnus passed Silver coin to Soothing sands
[24/12/11 23:13] ignnus:lol wrong one
[24/12/11 23:13] ignnus:can you give it back
[24/12/11 23:14] Soothing Sands:nope, bye )

He didn't send the clue(for Marvolo's quest) or give back any silver.

He said it was funny.

I want my stuff back(5 silvers-i gave stones by mistake) and him jailed since he did this everyone he met at that time,including newbies.

This was on Christmas eve

Edited December 31, 201114 yr by ignnus

Could be part of Tipu's stealing things quest. *shrugs*
Though, I'm sure if you ask nicely after Murmas, ....maybe?

I'll start stealing,sell half their stuff(he said he'd sell 1 stone) and return it if they ask nicely 10 days later..cause they don't need it anyway.Sounds good?All hail the Tipu and Soothing sands.

Maebius, it doesn't matter if it's part of the quest, Tipu's quest even says that you have to face the consequences for stealing and can't blame it.

Point being he falsely received coins (and heat stone) and refused to return them.

That is kind of outrageous. He should return those items. Anyways. Ignnus. I will send a clue on behalf of MB.

C

[font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Yea it's for Tipu's quest. I confess to stealing ignnus's stuff. I WILL give it ALL back in about 10 days. (Same with Redneck)[/font]
[font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]I did NOT steal from any newbies, nor would I want to. Only MP5s, people who i believe would not flip out and quit the game.[/font]
[color=#000000][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]I'm not going to stop you from punishing me, nor will I give the stuff back until after the quest.[/font][/color]

[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][color=#000000]I would, however, like to enlighten you with some stuff i learned from criminal law class. The four reasons for punishment-[/color][/font][/size]

[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][color=#000000]Retribution- Personal hatred[/color][/font][/size]
[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][color=#000000]Seems we have plenty of this.[/color][/font][/size]

[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][color=#000000]Deterrence- Prevent further criminal activity by the criminal and others[/color][/font][/size]
[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][color=#000000]I'm proboboly not going to do this again, ever. Others will see what I have done as another lesson not to steal[/color][/font][/size]

[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][color=#000000]Reformation- Reform and rehabilitate the criminal[/color][/font][/size]
[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][color=#000000]I don't think I need rehab. I'm a functioning member of society[/color][/font][/size]

[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][color=#000000]Restraint- Protect society by removing the criminal. [/color][/font][/size]
[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][color=#000000]Do you need to be protected from me? Maybe, I don't know.[/color][/font][/size]


[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][color=#000000]That's all i have to say.[/color][/font][/size]

Edited December 25, 201114 yr by Soothing Sands

You forgot Restoration:
People who did something wrong can be used to do something right, like community service.

The cells haven't been cleaned in a while, for example.

Edited December 25, 201114 yr by Burns

[quote name='Soothing Sands' timestamp='1324789874' post='98502']
[font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Yea it's for Tipu's quest. I confess to stealing ignnus's stuff. I WILL give it ALL back in about 10 days. (Same with Redneck)[/font]
[font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]I did NOT steal from any newbies, nor would I want to. Only MP5s, people who i believe would not flip out and quit the game.[/font]
[color=#000000][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]I'm not going to stop you from punishing me, nor will I give the stuff back until after the quest.[/font][/color]

[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][color=#000000]I would, however, like to enlighten you with some stuff i learned from criminal law class. The four reasons for punishment-[/color][/font][/size]

[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][color=#000000]Retribution- Personal hatred[/color][/font][/size]
[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][color=#000000]Seems we have plenty of this.[/color][/font][/size]

[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][color=#000000]Deterrence- Prevent further criminal activity by the criminal and others[/color][/font][/size]
[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][color=#000000]I'm proboboly not going to do this again, ever. Others will see what I have done as another lesson not to steal[/color][/font][/size]

[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][color=#000000]Reformation- Reform and rehabilitate the criminal[/color][/font][/size]
[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][color=#000000]I don't think I need rehab. I'm a functioning member of society[/color][/font][/size]

[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][color=#000000]Restraint- Protect society by removing the criminal. [/color][/font][/size]
[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][color=#000000]Do you need to be protected from me? Maybe, I don't know.[/color][/font][/size]


[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][color=#000000]That's all i have to say.[/color][/font][/size]
[/quote]

Personally i think you should return at least double... I dont like this sort of thing... its wrong and only hurts just to try and get some stuff.

I don't need enlightment from you not to steal.
You forgot to mention "punishment-for taking people's stuff" (while they are working on a quest),you said you'll return them after i said I'll ask Grido.

[quote]I'm not going to stop you from punishing me, nor will I give the stuff back until after the quest.[/quote]
Your attitude like you have done something good...that's what you call a bold thief.

[quote]I did NOT steal from any newbies, nor would I want to. Only MP5s, people who i believe would not flip out and quit the game.[/quote]

You tried to steal from everyone on gazebo and we warned them so you couldn't.


You WILL return them later?I want double of what you took plus some jail time for borrowing my things without my consent then.

This reminds me of a storymode option.

As soon as i took your stuff, i said it would be back in 10 days. You went to Grido afterwards.

As far as returning more than I took, I can give you a creature if you want, Ignnus. If you are looking for me to suffer, that's not going to cause it.
And if a new player wanted to buy the stone, i would have given their money back on the spot.

I don't want to cause you suffering but you caused me grievance,I want you to get punished because of this and breaking MD laws,

Trust me, If I broke a law I would be jailed already.

Soothing Sands. It is not appropriate to steal from others. There is no excuse. You must honor your word. Just because Ignnus is not a new player does not give you an excuse to steal from him. Please return his items.

C

[quote name='Soothing Sands' timestamp='1324834428' post='98560']
Trust me, If I broke a law I would be jailed already.
[/quote]

That is where you are wrong. You have broken the law, you have stolen from someone. But as mur has previously said, people are not jailed immediately for any and all crimes because it allows some level of "bad guy's" in MD.

Fine. It seems I was wrong. No further comments, unless you ask me a question.

Are you going to return the items?

C

After the quest, along with a creature

I think that regardless of him saying he will return said items, he should still be jailed. Plus, he is capable of lying... How can we be certain he won't steal again? Or that he truly will return said items?

He has shown evidence of willing, committing to an agreement under false pretences.
He has shown no remorse, evidence suggests that when a person shows no remorse for their wrongdoing, or acknowledgement that what they have done is wrong, they would be more prone to do it again.

If a person steals £1000 from someone, say in their handbag, and then returns the handbag with the £1000 at a later date, I can assure you that they would still be prosecuted.


Sands, I'd advise you to take a few more classes in criminal law before you try and talk yourself out of a criminal matter.

Let's talk back to you at each of your reasons for punishment though;

Retribution - Punishment that is considered to be morally right and fully deserved (Not hatred, as you said)
I think that retribution is justified, you were given something under false pretences, when you did not return this to ignnus, this caused him anguish beyond direct repayment of the original sum.

Deterrence - Disincentive: a negative motivational influence. / [size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][color=#000000]Prevent further criminal activity by the criminal and others[/color][/font][/size]
If you are not punished for theft, how does this deter others from doing the same in future? There is no lesson to them, as you say, other than "If he can get away with it, so can I" and that is a lesson I'd rather not encourage be taught. No lesson even to you, who would have gotten away with it, so to speak, and if you've been given no deterrence, what would prevent you from doing it again? See the top of the post.
Your saying you will "probably" not do this again, enforces my point.

Reformation - The action or process of reforming an institution or practice. / [size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][color=#000000]Reform and rehabilitate the criminal[/color][/font][/size]
You say you are a functioning member of society, I would argue that by saying; what functioning member of society cons others into giving them things?

Restraint - A measure or condition that keeps someone or something under control or within limits / [size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][color=#000000]Protect society by removing the criminal. [/color][/font][/size]
Protect - Keep safe from harm or injury. (That's verbal, physical, mental, or emotional harm/injury)
If we pick out emotional, or mental harm (depending on perspective). If you went to jail or such, the community/society at large would be protected from potential further emotional or mental harm or duress. As the society has no guarantee this will not happen again, there could be a general feeling of similar events happening again, except to them, not necessarily by you, but by the impression that is left behind should you not be punished.


Punishment falls into the category of retribution.
Restoration could be included in reformation, or as a category of it's own.


All of the above reasons for punishment, that you learnt in what I would presume to be a single lesson of criminal law, point towards your being punished (in whatever way) for the crime you have committed.


As to your statement that if you broke the law you would be in jail already. No, this is not the case, not even in real life. You would be detained before a trial, as there is no detainment facilities (other than the jail itself) you are allowed to roam free, after detainment comes the trial, where evidence is collected and statements read. After the trial, if found guilty, you would then be sent to Jail.
As you have pleaded your guilt - you have admitted you did it, there is no need of a trial, and punishment would be carried out accordingly, based on the judge's decisions (I don't believe juries are involved in plea bargains, but either way, there's no previous for it in MD).

Yes, well it seems you know more than me. Under normal circumstances i would feel terrible about doing this, and i already kinda do... But seeing as it is for a reward, I'm not going to play that card. I will wait for my punishment, if/when it comes.

We can see right now that Soothing Sands is willing to recompensate any distress and stolen goods and is willing to face punishment. However, time will tell if he will hold his word. He will be punished in one way or another but right now. I want to warn everyone to be vigilant in their trades.

C

Edited December 26, 201114 yr by Chengmingz

Soothing Sands, you were trying my quest?
Shame...

I hereby disqualify you from my quest.
It was made to be enjoyable, and you made it otherwise.

[quote name='Grido' timestamp='1324780153' post='98495']
Maebius, it doesn't matter if it's part of the quest, Tipu's quest even says that you have to face the consequences for stealing and can't blame it.
Point being he falsely received coins (and heat stone) and refused to return them.
[/quote]

I have to say that personally, I follow Chewett and other's emotional condemnation of the spirit of the quest, and the methods used to participate in it. However, I feel that diplomatically, I will argue follow the spirit Mur & Tipu's thoughts: (even if wrong, it's "allowable" in the sense of game mechanics/MD ethics). That's what I meant by my initial comments.
Yes, probably sneaky and "wrong" in the court of public opinion, and perhaps will result in punishment for breaking game rules to steal things. Yet, that stealing was possible, so he's validated his own actions and is ready to accept the consequences.

No need to drag the debate out too much further. It's for Tipu/council/Grido/jailors/etc to decide now.
c'est la vie.

[cquote]
"Since he has admitted guilt and it is a first offence, he will suffer a mild punishment. Soothing Sands is asked to return the items before Tipu's contest ends (31st December), doing so will result in only 2 days jail. Should he refuse to return the items before this date, he will suffer a longer sentence of 1 week."
[/cquote]

[quote]"Since he has admitted guilt and it is a first offence, he will suffer a mild punishment. Soothing Sands is asked to return the items before Tipu's contest ends (31st December), doing so will result in only 2 days jail. Should he refuse to return the items before this date, he will suffer a longer sentence of 1 week."[/quote]

Thanks a lot Council!
I'm happy to know people will think twice before breaking deals and giving the thumb