"The Warden"

[Aethon]

With the new "rules" (if that's the correct term to use) about respect and such I'd like to propose a new method of "punishment" or "law enforcement" for those cases where a "resolution" can't be given.

 

The Warden

 

A title that should make even the strongest of players tremble at it's speaking!

 

This person would work alongside judges to make sure the fate or punishment of a player is carried out. The main purpose of "The Warden" would be to transport prisoners to and from the prison. Once there, The Warden oversees their stay and has "control" over them - like how dream weavers may have control over those they put into dreams.

 

• Behave badly, try to escape, throw abuse or generally upset/annoy The Warden, or anyone else, and you'll face the wrath. This could be a longer conviction, lowering of stats, etc.

• Behave well and show repentance then perhaps your life will be made easier and you'll be spared some time.

The Warden (is the name and the big bold lettering scaring you yet?!) would have no say in the punishment of a "criminal" until they are in their domain. Small alterations to their time (a few days - a week) could be granted by The Warden but for larger alterations/punishments The Warden would have to confer with the judges.

 

Obviously, as this role would be (what I assume to be) an "official" role there would need to be some monitoring involved to ensure The Warden was doing their job correctly. Like in all prisons The Warden would be given a little leeway as to how "rough" he can be with his inmates (*)  but should also keep a level of dignity and respect.

 

This idea would allow for real cases and punishments to be taken into consideration, enforcing the rules of "respect" through the public/judging body, rather than expecting Mur or Chewett to deal with all cases thus allowing them to concentrate on others matters. 

 

This is merely a brief description of the idea I've had in my head since the announcement and, as always, opinions are welcome. I would ask however that we try to keep ideas constructive and NO FLAMEWARS (I add this as it seems these "flamewars" spring up as randomly as spots on a pubescent teenager!)

 

Beware "THE WARDEN"

 

Thanks for reading,

 

Aethon

 

(*) Tongue in cheek joke!

Edited May 11, 2015 by Aethon

[Rophs]

Although there is some need for this to exist it is something that should never exist.

[Aethon]

Although there is some need for this to exist it is something that should never exist.

 

This is merely a brief description of the idea I've had in my head since the announcement and, as always, opinions are welcome. I would ask however that we try to keep ideas constructive and NO FLAMEWARS (I add this as it seems these "flamewars" spring up as randomly as spots on a pubescent teenager!)

 

 

Perhaps you'd care to elaborate? :)

[DARK DEMON]

The main problem I see with this is that it is a subjective role.

 

No matter which player you bring to this, even the best of the best, this is a subjective role and that means the Warden will always be biased, i.e: nicer to his friends and worse to his personal enemies. (pls don't tell me there is anyone in MD who is absolutely fair)

 

I don't mean to sound offensive and instantly throw away your idea or anything. I like the way you think and maybe such a thing can apply later when MD has more people, perhaps in a different way, I don't know.

 

For now I think there is no need for the Warden. People rarely go to jail, and those that do, Grido handles the punishments etc (unless Mur/Chew directly sentence it) and sometimes gives extensions too for bad behavior.

 

 

MD is unique in the sense that it... automatically fixes your behavior. You don't need a Warden or anyone else to tell you to stop doing such a behavior next time to avoid punishment again.

 

If you come out of jail and still resume the same bad behavior, you yourself won't be happy or fit in with people, etc. Its just the way it works.

 

The actual number of days mean very little to the 'criminals'.

 

What Mur said about respect, I interpret it more as what you need to do to fit into MD and make yourself and others happier, rather than as a jail/punishment thingy.

Edited May 12, 2015 by DARK DEMON

[Aethon]

The main problem I see with this is that it is a subjective role.

 

No matter which player you bring to this, even the best of the best, this is a subjective role and that means the Warden will always be biased, i.e: nicer to his friends and worse to his personal enemies. (pls don't tell me there is anyone in MD who is absolutely fair)

 

Oh I agree, which is why judges would ensure a certain amount of equality. This is a trait that applies to those that are able to separate work and friendship.

 

For now I think there is no need for the Warden. People rarely go to jail, and those that do, Grido handles the punishments etc (unless Mur/Chew directly sentence it) and sometimes gives extensions too for bad behavior.

 

Perhaps people do rarely go to jail, which is why this would allow it to become less of a rarity and more of a "watch what you say or do or else".

 

MD is unique in the sense that it... automatically fixes your behavior. You don't need a Warden or anyone else to tell you to stop doing such a behavior next time to avoid punishment again.

 

MD is unique, but not for the reason you stated. MD is not a behavioural tool designed to "fix" your behaviour. In fact, as far as I see it, MD welcomes different behaviours as it creates a sense of diversity and gives different perspectives to the one conducting the "experiment" (take that as you will.) 

 

I've heard there have been many instances of repeated behaviour that could be considered punishable (you yourself should be aware of this). One spell in a prison isn't going to make everyone good and act right. (Read Below)

 

If you come out of jail and still resume the same bad behavior, you yourself won't be happy or fit in with people, etc. Its just the way it works.

 

Read below.

 

The actual number of days mean very little to the 'criminals'.

 

How do you know this? Each person is very different. You've grown accustomed to being in one spot for a long period of time due to repeatedly being killed, someone else, however, may find that the biggest torture in MD. We're all individuals - speak for yourself. :)

 

What Mur said about respect, I interpret it more as what you need to do to fit into MD and make yourself and others happier, rather than as a jail/punishment thingy.

 

As far as I read Mur will react as he see's fit to acts of disrespect. This is a means to an end.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Aethon

[DARK DEMON]

I've been jailed, I've seen others been jailed. All of us had something in common, despite being individuals.

This was just my observation, feel free to disagree.

 

Also, you misread my earlier point. What I said is one of the ways MD is unique. There is no "one single" way MD is unique, there are many. I can equally disagree with your interpretation of it too, but I will not because opinions are never wrong :)

 

I've stated what I had to about the Warden, this post was just to clear misconceptions.

 

Lets see how this goes.

Edited May 12, 2015 by DARK DEMON

[Assira the Black]

On the matter of subjectivity, any human of any role will have bias or act in accordance with their point of view. One thing that would help someone with this role would be transperancy with their actions, to either the judges/those in power or with the public.

As for whether it is needed *shrugs* I do not know. I do not know how often those who are behind the scenes (actions/conflicts that the public does not know about) have to deal with this and if that by creating a warden it would make things easier for them or more complicated.

And it depends on if anyone would want a role like that. This is a similar situation to the warrent role that was suggested.

Some roles are better implemented if someone already has made it their own. In this case and in the warrent role it is dependent on others to create the tools necessary or make some other changes.

I think it is a good idea in that I can see the possibilities of it increasing rp in jail related aspects. It maybe interesting to pair that with some of the a25 changes.

[Aeoshattr]

I really lack the energy to get into a fully coherent argument, I'll just make some bullet points. You guys fill in the blanks.

 

• Stat damage, IMO, should be only an extreme form of punishment. Why? People either work really hard for their stats or dump a considerable amount of $$ to obtain said stats. In either case, it is something that shouldn't just be swatted away "because reasons". If you had spent say... 50-100$ to obtain the rusties and use all the stat boosters in the shop, only to have it all taken away because... let's say the warden thinks it's a monstrous offense that you said poo (the "offensive" version that I'm not allowed to type on the forums). Not very nice, is it?
• Judges are meant to "judge" AND deliver punishment. It's their role and I don't think there's a need for a warden?
  • you  could argue instead that the some of the judges are (sadly, if you ask me) not around as much anymore. 
• Prison itself seems like a pain in the bumhole anyway, and as far as I know it's not too difficult to break out. Adding a warden to forcibly keep you in and make it even more miserable for you is just a bit excessive, if you ask me.
  • is it going to scare people? Maybe. Is it going to pointlessly make things hard for people who get into jail for lesser reasons? More likely. The benefit isn't worth the risk if you ask me.
• I like the idea of a Warden like a sort of Molquert. A person there to help "guide" and "reform" a criminal rather than harden them. Any added punishment should, IMO, go by the judges first and kind of invalidates the need for a warden in that sense.

[Aethon]

I forgot to mention a point about "fugitives" actually, now you mention breaking out.

 

The Warden would be able to send these fugitives back, if caught, and increase their punishment. After all, if you broke out from prison then you'd have more consequences than just being sent back.

 

It's only an idea though. :)

[Rophs]

 

 

Perhaps you'd care to elaborate? :)

The negatives of giving somebody that kind of power will more often than not outweigh the positives.

[Chewett]

It is an interesting idea. It could work but it would need to work alongside other roles since there is not enough people in jail.

To those that worry about people being subjective.

Everyone is subjective, some people can remove themselves from the equation and make them appear fair. However generally this means they are unfair to themselves but this is generally tolerated.

It doesnt matter that there is no one who is absolutely fair becuase thats impossible.

In short, ignore those who tell you the role is pointless as you cant find a fair person, they are being naive, we have given many more important and powerful rules to those who are considered biased.

And please people, dont just shoot down an idea becuase you dont "get" it, its rather rude.

I spent a decent amount of time coding a whole new "punishment" interface for PoE for her dream role which includes punishment such as stat damage, temporary bad effects and similar. Repurposing a similar item could be interesting to see.

I like the idea, sounds pretty cool.

[Kamisha]

I do like the idea of the role except for the reason you are giving the Warden alot of power and big red buttons. If Mur does think about doing this we are likely to see some secret tests coming out for some players to see if they can handle the button. The control factor here however is that they can be prosecuted them selves if they don't follow orders of those handing down sentences or abuse this for personal gain. If I had to make a choice for a player I would avoid a warden being part of a common land such as MD, LR, GG, or Necro to reduce bias. Underground, East lands or No Mans land would be a good place to look. Perhaps you could overturn my thoughts on MB since they represent Justice usually (or at least say they do).

[Chewett]

If Mur does think about doing this we are likely to see some secret tests coming out for some players to see if they can handle the button.

Well, I have been running these tests for those who already have this dream punishment