Heat Denial Syndrome

[Zetsuei]

Ok to begin with I just joined the citizenship of Marind recently and have noticed 1 thing that has me puzzled and hope to change. The sudden shut down of gathering naturally occuring heat from sources other than your home and the loss of heat in foreign lands.

 

1. Heat exists everywhere, so it would only make sense that you could gain it from everywhere.

2. In terms of losing heat in a foreign land, that really should happen only in enemy lands along with vitality. Neutral lands shouldn't be affected like this.

 

I only suggest that we change how it is gathered. For instance, For people unaligned they remain the same.

 

For people who are aligned with a land, their land still provides them with the benefits that they would usually had, for no man's land, instead of shutting heat gaining altogether, limit the heat gained while around. maybe to around 50% of what you would normally gain just to spit a simple number. For foreign land perhaps limit it even further to 75%. Enemy lands would of course have you losing heat and vitality.

 

Of course if there be something I'm missing in this scenario feel free to speak. Always willing to see how things go.

[Tissy]

What is weird to me is that neither briskness nor land loyalty does nothing to help gaining heat in outland. 

[Zetsuei]

while i don't know about land loyalty briskness is or should be universal. 

[Ungod]

Ooh, just today I was thinking about heat and how it is indicated in the realm!

We should have a lengthy discussion about this in-game; for now, the question of getting heat in your own homeland relates to...stirred emotions? Do you get warmer as you cruise through the known scenery that you call 'home', and colder at the sight of 'the outside', irrespective of it being enemy land or neutral land?

 

[Zetsuei]

Might be veering of point a smidge but we can go back to it later. Going by what you said Then what of travelers...or rather...the nomadic? They be neutral and gain heat from everywhere? losing heat only makes sense in an enemy land. being away from home could indeed sit negative emotions that cause folks to lose emotions but it should not affect the gaining process at all. if we going by what you say Ungod then heat should be HARDER to gain but not outright stopped. 

[Steno]

For some, the ability to leave home may even rewarding as well, however it could also make the returning even more potent.

[Ungod]

But why do you consider heat as something 'to gain'? It's not something you gain, it's something you lose. Yes, it can be stored, but it's the energy you give away, mostly.

[Steno]

Is it not something that is both gained and lost simultaneously?

Why constrict it to the mere comprehension that we claim to possess?

The real question is the trichotomy  Zets does put forth, of your homeland, the neutral lands, and other lands.

What, from a theoretical stand-point separates the neutral lands from the other two types of land?

[Ungod]

If you put it this way, then this mechanism about heat is hiding a meaning for what homeland means compared to other lands (neutral or enemy)

[Steno]

Indeed. Did you like my strawman-like position?

 

It wasn't on purpose. It is just my gut-reaction, my first thought about the points you rose.

 

Also, not just theoretically, but what mechanically could we implement to support this difference?

If there isn't a difference, but we feel there should be conceptually, how could we make this happen using the mathematics in the code to simulate it?

Edited May 5, 2020 by Steno

[Ungod]

5 hours ago, Zetsuei said:

Heat exists everywhere, so it would only make sense that you could gain it from everywhere.

Does heat exist everywhere? If so, what can we identify it by (traces, indicators)?

4 hours ago, Tissy said:

What is weird to me is that neither briskness nor land loyalty does nothing to help gaining heat in outland

 

3 hours ago, Zetsuei said:

while i don't know about land loyalty briskness is or should be universal

Briskness is a personal trait; that it doesn't increase the amount of heat you generate in the 'outland' means the outland is preventing this trait from showing up. What does briskness depend on location and not, say, other personal traits?

3 hours ago, Zetsuei said:

Then what of travelers...or rather...the nomadic?

I don't know how they're affected. We should ask them.

 

2 hours ago, Steno said:

Is it not something that is both gained and lost simultaneously?

Well, as a mechanic in MD, heat is gained, then lost, so not simultaneously.

 

3 hours ago, Zetsuei said:

if we going by what you say Ungod then heat should be HARDER to gain but not outright stopped.

Is it outright stopped? The way I see it, if you suddenly lose heat outside your homeland, it's not that your actions are not producing heat, but it serves as a reminder you're not home. It's not that one action generates heat and the exact same one doesn't anymore because of the location. They both generate same amount of heat, but there's a difference in...perception? You perceive the outside as ''outside'', dangerous, different, unordered and the drop in heat reflects the change of perspective. 

This is the best explanation I can go by right now.

2 hours ago, Steno said:

What, from a theoretical stand-point separates the neutral lands from the other two types of land?

 

2 hours ago, Steno said:

If there isn't a difference, but we feel there should be conceptually, how could we make this happen using the mathematics in the code to simulate it?

What separates the neutral land from non-neutral land is the involvement in the conflict. If we are not satisfied that heat is lost irrespective of this involvement, we can lower the numbers of heat lost for neutral lands.  This boils down to whether you want to see the world in 'my home' vs 'everyone else' or 'my home' vs 'my enemy' vs 'people that can be swayed to one side or another'.

Spoiler

(stirring things up, stirring in the pot)

 

[Zetsuei]

Hmm.. considering the statements you've said as well as the lack of a means to prove said answers to questions, I suppose the help screen that describes things must of course be rewritten as what is stated and what is actually there is different. So off the top of my head thats the page that describes briskness, the definition of heat that is first given on gateway island...theres probably others that now need to be rewritten.

 

My main inquiry came from the fact that I felt that the resource of gaining heat while I wasn't a citizen had suddenly been funneled to a single point, while noting that vitality and citizen only privileges being what was gained back. Though vitality itself can be gained from a burst...so just citizen privileges. After reading the definition of what heat was, what briskness was, I made assumptions that this was the way it was, but since its not, in order that there be no confusion to this it should be written more clearly somewhere.

Edited May 5, 2020 by Zetsuei

[Steno]

I must say, I too, was under the same impression as Zetsuei.

If the help page is waiting until a bigger update when the entire thing gets redone, then that makes sense. But perhaps the Gateway Island explanation, as Zetsuei suggests, should take precedence?

[Ungod]

What is the GWI explanation? (my visits there were very brief and non-exploratory)