Goodbye Magicduel

[Lulu]

Come now, you little dolt. Acknowledge your stupidity for suggesting that my post would suggest to others that I thought that RJ attacked for personal gain. Now, why? Why would it sound like that? A normal person would be able to understand me perfectly. Understand in the first place that whether or not RJ attacked for such reasons is irrelevant, and that I'm logical enough to know that as near anyone would. But I forgive your stupidity. We all have in ourselves stupidity, you know. It's not like the stupid person is at fault, as that stupid person is earnest and honestly believes what he stupidly thinks. It is just annoying. In fact, saying one is stupid isn't really an insult.

Just because you are a relative does mean I have the liberty to take for this sort of message, dear Lu. I am in the process of bringing you up, whereas to others I don't have the obligation, and in fact, that sort of action would be offensive and unwanted. At least on the forums, which isn't meant for that at all but rather the discussion of the game.

I must disagree. In fact, I suspect many normal persons would conclude that in your post, you were referring to RJ while avoiding the use of his name. It would be relevant, because then he would support the fact that there are those who do attack for personal gain, and therefore it must be officially recognized that they should restrain from like actions. You say, why should they be allowed, if there is no purpose? I say, why should they put out a rule, if there is no purpose (nobody that actually would break that rule). Examples are good.

@"stupid" part: Well, if you say so. Just makes you all the more stupid for asking me whether I am, then. But then, aren't we all?

Now I must say that I refuse to continue any further in this unproductive squabbling over meanings.

[Glaistig]

No, Lu, I dare say your flawed logic is grasping but failing to reach reality. For it would not be relevant, for while it would support the fact that there are those who do attack for personal gain, it does not support that it must be officially recognized that they should restrain from like actions. For, you see, that argument, that rpcs do attack for personal gain, isn't sufficient enough to condemn the occurrence. It is allowed in the game. Practically encouraged by lack of punishment, lack of official condemnation. The issue I was singularly addressing was the condemnation of the occurrence, and as I have affirmed over and over, it doesn't matter yes or no to the question of whether or not rpcs have done it: there is already the fact that it is allowed. Do you understand? I don't know, I've repeated it so many times.

Now, don't be so bitter. One of us is the stupid one, and we're both trying to enlighten the other. There's nothing wrong with that, and in fact it is productive and not squabbling, though perhaps unrelated to the topic at hand in the forums considering that most people know what I mean.

[Sacosphilz]

On RPC issue:

I think the claim that RPCs being able to attack lower MP players would "make the game more challenging and realistic" is just an excuse, not a real intended purpose of RPC power.

As Glaistig has pointed out, other limitations in the game try to prevent stronger players from abusing weaker players. Why, then, would RPCs be given exclusive rights for the purpose of doing the opposite?

I don't oppose RPC having this power in general. It can indeed add to the game experience if used correctly, and the risk it contains is similar to the risk that non-MP5 face when they choose to join an alliance, but it should never be used for personal gain simply because it is unfair. To those in the "unfairness makes for realism" camp: It's not just a matter of whether you can tolerate it and live with it. You got abused by RPC and didn't give up? Good for you. But other players are quitting the game because of this perceived unfairness. If you're concerned about the game, you should be concerned about this issue as well.

In my opinion, this RPC power should remain, but it should only be given to those with the need for it (probably to play out their roles) and they should only attack lower MP players only when it is called for. If role or storyline dictates that some players should be attacked, it's ok to attack. If some players give consent or ask to be attack, go ahead. If some players misbehave and crushing their creatures is the appropriate punishment, fine. Attacking for the RPC's own gain, not ok.

@Faraday's issue:

On the one hand, I think players should have more choice other than role play just to enjoy the game. Not everyone is good at it and certainly not everyone wants to do it. Trying to tell them to just role play isn't that fair.

On the other hand, one game can't have everything for everyone. MD is no exception. If it turns out that MD can no longer provide the fun factor for me, I would leave. But anyway, if a player like Faraday likes the game enough to vent out about it, we might need to try looking for some way to improve it.

Personally, I'm not much into role-playing either. I certainly enjoy the MD world and the effort put into its stories, and I appreciate the players who eagerly play out their role. It's just that I'm not yet inspired to create a flavorful role for myself, but at least I have something else to work on while I'm not training my creatures or farming stats. While others are concerning themselves with the story and trying to discover the depths of the fantasy side of MD world, I am doing experiments and trying to discover the depths of the mathematical side of MD world.

Anyway, to be fair to the role-players, even though I'm sometimes tired of all the role-playing like Lulu probably is, having too many players talking 'off-character' can be really inconvenient to the role-players and can ruin the mood for all. (I did that mistake several times) It's better to just play along when it's appropriate.

If you are ever visited by Morpheus, you'd be pressured to play along as well.

[Tarquinus]

The part I'm worrying about is having to see half the people I know pretending to be solely in MD whenever I log on, and having to play along with them should I ever decide to communicate with them. Sure, a little pretending is fine, I suppose, but I think too much is possible. I don't want all of MD to be roleplaying.

I appreciate what you and Sacosphilz are saying on this subject, and I have this to say: any game is improved by courteous behavior. I tend to stay in-character most of the time, but I will answer direct questions honestly. I do enjoy playing off people out-of-character from time to time, usually for laughs. I try to have fun, and if possible, make the game fun for others.

Someone who won't drop out of character on request is being rude. I am no evangelist; I do not think anyone should be forced to roleplay.

That said, when one shows up at a roleplaying game and then expresses disinterest in the roleplaying part, my sympathy - and courtesy - extends only so far. If people are having fun being dorky and in character all the time, let them. If you aren't having fun and can't get a straight answer, or worse, if you suffer some systemic penalty for not "playing along" - well, I think there is something wrong with that. But the game is still in alpha, it is still very unbalanced (and in some places just broken), and the kinks are very far from being ironed out.

[meiche]

"No, you obnoxious little sprite who can't understand words."

...and that Glai is why I love you.

[Sacosphilz]

"No, you obnoxious little sprite who can't understand words."

...and that Glai is why I love you.

Don't we all?

[ScotinBelgie]

i dont bully for one. i go by balance when attacking.

OK so roughly how often does a MP3 player beat you when you attack them, 1 in 10, 5 in 10 (balance), never? If it is never, then I would suggest that is bullying. As for the policing role, if that is an official role then I was suggesting access to fight logs or creature lists would be a more accurate method rather having an RPC randomly attack lower levels. And if one of your official roles is to police players then you should have access to that data.

[Gchick]

http://magicduel.invisionzone.com//index.php?showtopic=1965

To refer to my thread and repeat what I said there:

Basically my points - or questions, if you will - at hand:

[1]Were the two attacks following the first authorized one, legitimate?

[2]RPCs, having a certain status in-game, should act with authority, responsibility and maturity in all cases (or are supposed to).

[3]RPCs should not abuse their powers for personal gain.

[4]There should be some kind of regulation of RPCs and their actions.

[5]How much should a player be "punished" by leading with such a high score in the contest?

(I am referring to an incident between an RPC and a player. Read about it in the thread if you don't know which.)

If yes to 1, does that mean it is OK for an RPC to attack players from other MP levels solely based on their personal desires and decisions? Even though technically Ren's first two attacks were within game regulations, as decided by Shoeps, his original intent was not such. Only after complaints were voiced did he think to check if what he did was OK.

Also: Was it necessary to force him to log off? Would weakening him and leaving him to defend his heads in that state not have been enough? (It would have helped other people raise their score, instead of just diminishing his). And most importantly: When would Ren have stopped attacking? Was his intention to actually get him to log off, or was he merely taking advantage of the fact that he wanted to gain exp anyway?

Their status comes as a reward, but that doesn't mean that after attaining said status you can just do whatever you please. They should have clear outlines of what is acceptable behavior and what is not, even if only to pacify and soothe regular players who don't want to be the prey of unreasonable wrath or sheer greed.

So, I ask you:

Should RPCs have regulations? Or should they be allowed to do whatever they want, having earned their positions as "gods"? Are they more authority figures that help regulate, develop the story and keep strays in check, or are they simply given powers and told to do what they please?

[Glaistig]

"No, you obnoxious little sprite who can't understand words."

...and that Glai is why I love you.

I'm thinking of splitting/moving the topic. It's really long for a good-bye topic. Hmm.. in a way, he wasn't really wanting to say good-bye so much as make a point about his thoughts of allowing rpcs to attack weaker players. In that manner it's sort of a duplicate topic of Gchick's. To add to that, the response is more related to that issue than saying good-bye back. Hnn. ~_~ I'll think about it.

[SoulTear]

I think ur idea of adding RPC avatars to certain locations is a great idea.

It seems that with all the talk about roleplaying my point was forgotten which was to make all the other RPCs like Wodin Ullr with an avatar somewhere that you can click on to attack. That way you can at least attack the RPCs whereas right now they can attack you but you cant attack them which is a situation thats just asking to be abused.

[Calyx of Isis]

It seems that with all the talk about roleplaying my point was forgotten which was to make all the other RPCs like Wodin Ullr with an avatar somewhere that you can click on to attack. That way you can at least attack the RPCs whereas right now they can attack you but you cant attack them which is a situation thats just asking to be abused.

MD shop has an add-on for the RPC role that tells you where they are. I use it on a regular basis. It is often the case that others ask where is a particular RPC and I refresh the RPC list and tell them. Of course, by the time you get there, they may have moved. Happens to me all the time.

[Glaistig]

I believe some rpcs will have an interactive avatar on the map like Wodin. SmartAlekRJ, for instance. The thing is, either they haven't reached the point in the story which would justify it or the area they would have their avatar in is currently closed to the majority of the players (RJ, being the Drachorn Master, would be in Golemus). Some rpcs won't have an avatar on the map, I think, because they don't have a role which makes them stationary and merit allowing combat interaction with normal players. I know only some rpcs have the ability to attack lower mindpowers, but not how many of them will be attackable through that feature.

As for the MD shop feature, that's all and good until you realize that you're in a lower mindpower than the rpc who attacked you and you can't attack back (the issue we're talking about here).