War

[Paradigma]

Let's start.

I spend in Archives few days and recognize many things, that didn't know.

First of all, I want from MB, SmartAlekRj to stop preparing for war. And other people, who want kill Khalazdad, stop doing stupid things! If I my theory right, 'cause of you died BigC and Wodin. Maybe I'm wrong, but look at this.

Do you remember when gates of Necrovion have opened to many players, Venger met BigC back there, and then he posted on forum that:

"By joining humans to their alliance, the shades are getting weaker

As a consequence, BigC has started to regain his strengths"

But start from there many things occured.

In No Man Lands started growing plot against Khal. All start looking for artefacts that will help them in fututre war. Great army having training in order to win. Shades started to reflect this actions and become stronger and stronger, Darkness start to grow an Wodin and BigC become weaker and weaker. If you look at this point of wiev, those great warriors was killed by own hands, and hands of they friends. Am I right? If no just provide me with you theorys, with facts and arguments, like I did. Only then I will give up with my theory.

I met Khal recently. He want to help me, cause I want to help him. That's his nature now - reflect will of others. He wanted to crush MB, Rj and others, only cause they want to do that with Khal. But you can't kill him. Look at this:

Many people become stronger in order to kill Khal. And when somebody will try to do that and will atc Khal, he will be killed, cause Khal reflect strength of ALL people that want to kill him. If you find the way to avoid Balance with Khal and kill him, then other shades will reflect and make asasination mision on somebody from No Man Land's.

If you will do nothing, but get more strength and train armies, Darkness will reflect and fill more and more teritory. And more and more people will die, 'cause they light will be cowered with darkness. Am I right?

What we must to do then? We must help shades to make peace with our lands. Not by joining alliance. Just if we will seek for the peace with pure heart, shades will reflect, and will seek for peace too. I see only this way of battle with shades. How do you think? Do you remember post of Khal in "

The Seekers of Enlightenment": "The Angiens have already aided the Necrovion Sentinels." - I don't think that Khal liar. Isn't was for purpose return balance in normal shape? Not in deform?

I want peace in our lands, and don't want any other corpses. If you seek for peace with pure heart, just post it here, and balance will happend. Maybe I'm mistaking in my theory, i'm in this realm not so long after all. But this is the way to avoid more victims of darkness 100%. Don't forget to post here what you seeking for. See ya. (and sorry for mistakes. Lol.)

[Sol]

I want peace too... It's one of my main aims in the game.

Well the Angiens did kind of aid Khal.

Well I seek peace in the lands to restore the lost balance.

[Yrthilian]

hmm it is an intresting idea but well i dont know war does seem to be comming and i dont think there is much one can do to stop it

but then again it may well get stoped but we will have to see

[Sol]

I was thinking something along the lines of taking action and make a gathering of people to talk about the war. I know some people that have already taken some action for trying to stop the war.

[dst]

C'mon! You all know that we have already a war going on. A cold war with spies and sabotages and secrets....bleah!

[Sol]

C'mon! You all know that we have already a war going on. A cold war with spies and sabotages and secrets....bleah!

Well... It's not a full scaled war yet though.... we could still do something...

[Rex]

and that would make it more fun how ? i want a war at MASSIVE SCALE but then there will eb peace at the end and not many loses btu loads of understandings

[Metal Bunny]

Hippies.. war is inevitable.. because peace is fallible. The very moment even but 1 person wants war, war will ensue.

And having said that, it can be seen clear from some of the comments above, that war is inevitable, although her measurement and intensity are unknown..

[phrog]

How funny that people speak of peace as we grow in this game by throwing those creatures bound to us against one and another. We seek weaknesses and take advantage. I suggest all those peacemakers stop fighting altogether, it only makes sense.

[Glaistig]

To the contrary, I believe we can prevent war, so long as all the alliance leaders agree that we should be at peace. Golemus and Necrovion should model themselves off of Loreroot-defensive armies, just to be prepared should someone foolish (namely one of the alliance leaders who actually wants war despite the agreement) shift things about. Spies are harmless if they find nothing harmful in the things they moniter.

I think it would help if all the alliance leaders would state the objective (and other minor goals, the philosphy of the alliance structure and actions, etc) of their alliance. The only reason for war is discord between objectives, and no objectives being clear, the reason for the apparent upcoming war isn't clear either. Yes, what may be stated may not be necessarily true or thorough, but it may help nonetheless.

For those who bark on and on about balance-what is wrong with the way things are now? The lands are basically balanced. Those who favor sunlight can dwell in Golemus and conduct research or whatever they do there. Those who favor the dark and the shades can go lark about with the shades. Loreroot is neutral, and Marind Bell basically as well. If there were no tensions, would there be reason for discontent?

If you truly want to spread the power of your great and mighty land/alliance, know that your quest is futile. The world of MagicDuel is one of natural actions and reactions which restore balance on its own. The shades had grown too great without opposition; thus Wodin was created. Now that Wodin has died, expect something crippling to occur to Necrovion (perhaps it already has occured). You cannot overcome this force of the MD world without power beyond mortal power. War creates nothing except balance which can be achieved just the same with peace, which produces far more.

With peace comes the time and resources to progress and better society for all of us. All these silly tensions annoy me, honestly. Alliances can serve other purposes than the creation of war. There are some of you with a certian bloodlust, who say that war will be far more interesting than peace, but you are wrong. It will be brute, mindless combat which dulls the mind. Juxtraposition that with the friendly competition of peace, the efforts to better one's own land because of nationalism. For things which create progress are the most difficult things to create.

[stormrunner]

yeah but phrog that make them do as they say and you should know how that goes

[Suuljin]

to reply to phrog and the general discussion...

hmmm... i guess the first thing we had to think about is what war and fighting actually means...

i will share some thoughts and fragments as they come to my mind, not refined yet, open for discussion:

is the fighting we do already war? i would not say so, the existance of the dojo, even if not known (or accepted) by all yet, proofes that it is at least not the same. some may argue what the purpose of the dojo is - preperation for war? hmmm... it is open for every "side" in this "conflict", so the answer cant be that simple....

some would refer to the battle we do as training, and truely what is the worst thing that happened from this sort of sparring, if consentual or not? one was exhausted and had to regain strenght, one was victorious for various reasons, but both had the chance to refine their skills and to learn.

some cultures honor the art of war, not because they were eager to fight it, but to train their bodys and spirit... and to be ready if war really came

now what is war in this realm, what would be its purpose?

continuation of politics by other means... i think that is the state dst described, the state we are in.

so, what is the agenda of the factions, what is their reason to fight? i would say for those who want to stop that war from happening, this is an important first point: if you could eliminate the reason to fight, they most likely wouldn't. this is even more true if what paradigma said is right. dont get me wrong though, this approach is possible for individuals, for whole factions it may be a different story.... because you would have to eliminate not the reason for one, but for all factions... still possible if the mirror is the right metaphor to descripe the shades.

now, what would be the outcome if the war really happened... capitulation or the total annihilation of at least one side... if one side established their goals, fullfilled their reason.... who said that the other sides whould stop to fight? these are things you cannot know if you dont know the full reason for all of them - and who of us does?

i am not trying to answer this questions, not now, but to make more people think about them.

fighting may be neccessary at one point or another, to learn about yourself and the other, the enemy as some would say, and for many more reasons... there is truth in both bloodshed and kindness, yet what aspects of the truth we will learn in the near future is depending on the decisions that were and will be made

and, for now, a last thing. i do believe that every realm and its denizens are vital for the balance of these lands and will not allow, as far as in my powers, the destruction of one. as long as necrovion is fighting a defensive war, it shall be protected against ANY aggressors, but if the tides turn and the shades, or necrovion - if that is really the same, become too strong and threaten to destroy any of the other realms, these'll have to be protected as well.

unless other informations shed a new light on this matter, (and that may be what happens now, a struggle to get or put on some informations and to hide others) this are some of my thoughts about the war.

[Logan Marquis]

Things are NOT balanced right now. It is only perceived as such. But true balance is when light is NOT the guiding force of the world (that is not to say dark need be either). The moment that cycles, all of them, are returned, we may see TRUE balance. Then...and only then...can war be avoided.

[Glaistig]

Logan, you say that.. but truly, what is wrong with the way things are now? Explain further how things are not balanced, and even if they aren't, why this sort of imbalance is bad.

Why change the world if there is nothing truly wrong with it except it contradicts some person's idea of balance? Do you think war will stop because night returns? The war right now isn't the result of a lack of cycle, only your insistence to have an army opposing others who don't want your concept of balance. If you want to change things, then do so peaceably and with the knowledge and agreement of the people you will be affecting with this goal.

Tell us how your concept of balance would improve the world. Tell us upon what science of the world it's based, what research you have conducted. You told me that plants would die as things are. Do you know that this world isn't like others? That plants in Marind Bell may thrive even without rain? We want proof, not supercilious conjecture to justify an offensive army. Convince with logic rather than force. It seems immature otherwise.

We are blinded by light and prejudices? Open our minds!--do you truly think we are so unworthy? Maybe instead, you should think that you are weak to not be able to do such a thing.

Some points to ponder: I'd love to hear the shades say that they'd like the sun appearing over Deathmarrow. Do you truly think the shades' objective is this sort of balance? Last I heard, they only cared for war when needed to balance, and the balance I was speaking of, not yours. Khalazdad said it was a secondary goal, and never claimed that the shades decided it was necessary. He said something like, "I am the wild card. I have the ability to decide".

... I don't think this reason you supply why you are in the alliance is the reason why the alliance exists. Neither do I think it justifies discarding an agreement for peace.

[Paradigma]

Okay then, if you want this war, and new victims - go ahead! But you may end up like BigC and Wodin, cause when your light very bright, you will produce shades with very deep dark color. You already killed two people, who will be next?

[Rex]

very true and if no one fighted in the game then whats the point of the game

p.s the cake is a lie

yes it is because it isnt here - chewett

the war cant be resisted

opps soz everyoen the cake wasnt suposed to be that big

menas theres more for everyone

but then the cake is a lie

All you need to make the war continue the war are 2 peopleunles you get to every single person the war will happen

[Sol]

Hmm... Maybe let's make a peace sit out or something... Maybe at the Gazebo of Equil? Reply if interested

[Paradigma]

Of course we need make it! It will be have big influence on the shades, I think.

[Sol]

Hmm... Okay ^^ I just started a Peace sit out at the Gaz. of Equil. Come please as more people the better the effect ^^

[Tarquinus]

Hmm... Okay ^^ I just started a Peace sit out at the Gaz. of Equil. Come please as more people the better the effect ^^

If Paradigma's logic is correct - and I think it is, largely - are you entirely certain the consequences will be what you intend? What is the goal here?

Consider:

• why Marind's Bell was founded.
  
• what the Shades told Khalazdad about peace with them.
  
• what the Knator Commander has done in the recent past, and the Shades' reaction to it.
  
• what was done to Khalazdad, and by whom.
  

Will you convince the armies of Golemus Golemicarum to stand down?

What, precisely, have been the consequences of the founding of Sol's alliance?

Where do the other alliances stand?

If the history of this little world is any indicator, decisive actions will produce the best results. Saying "we want peace!" is not the same as having it.

[Sol]

@Tarquinas I ditched the allaince idea... It means bounding people to a particular group... Some people and I have contacted some alliance leaders... such as the Loreroot allaince and SOE, they approve of the peace.

[Paradigma]

@Tranquis

I haven't many time today, but I will show your mistake.

You wrong when say that nothing will happend just by sitting there. Cause we reflecting by the shadows. And if we little by little get more people. Balance will appear. He already appear.

I will consider that thing, that you want tomorrow. I haven't time for this now(

[Sol]

Well, me and Paradigma (Lloyd in game) will continue to wait there. We are looking for loyal people who will be willing to wait there for a time.

[Rex]

wat isthe peace thing about, i can see how you can affect war = you fight loads peopel adn try adn influence story

but peace ad big gatherign just make more targets for those tha want war

[Sol]

Hm... In order for there to be balance there needs to be Chaos and Order. Normal fighting against other players are categorized into the Chaos section, but the war is a big thing and it's too "chaotic". And the Shades reflect us right? So if we acted peacfully and nice, they would probably be nice too.

Also, we don't a war and our aim is to find co-operation between alliances. Some friendly fire maybe but not full scale wars...