Central Market

[Liberty4life]

first of all i apologize for not reading it all carefully, so i will say how i see it now and what should be done

nice market has initial capital, now how to spend it and make it flow...... to answer that lets divide market

okies, so we have normal market with goods (items) just building up as kirskah have imagined it, so i ofc i would let her do that part of job, to supervise over whole market of goods, in addition to items, creatures can be also traded, so i found this also as goods for trade so to speak, and well we can also include services market into this goods market in case there is someone who wants to work alone and offer his services openly on market (dont mistake this with jobs as for working for someone else who pays you, in here i count in only entrepreneurs), so items and creatures need to be bought first to trade them later, so this is one way to spend founds on

then second part of market that is needed is market of "human resources", yea exactly what we already have... slave auction was big hit wasnt it, well those werent actually slaves, it was more like job, and the one who bough one of them used them in some way, and "slave" got paid, just like in doing some job... only difference is that the one was sold like slave hehe, so this slavery seams to be more rp based jobs and still paid? wow nice, it could later nicely evolve into real jobs, who would say that one day you will be paid for rping, and on other side in same time real jobs can be paid, just like editing papers and other things mentioned by kriskah, well to this i will add one more thing that should be included in this, we have MDU, and where are lectures?? well lets boost this also up, everyone who makes a lecture/teaching for mdu should be paid, same thing for mda, who makes article, why not pay him

and third part which is needed..... is money market, that means bank and guess what i plan to open one i will do job of exchanging currency (silver/gold), make people have theirs accounts, loans will become widely available and people will be even able to earn in bank for example savings and investing deposits (not sure if this is said like this on english), so since i know how real banks work, i think i wont have much problems in making this work just need to put all together and write it down

[Kragel]

[quote name='Liberty4life' post='30295' date='May 5 2009, 06:42 AM']first of all i apologize for not reading it all carefully, so i will say how i see it now and what should be done

nice market has initial capital, now how to spend it and make it flow...... to answer that lets divide market

okies, so we have normal market with goods (items) just building up as kirskah have imagined it, so i ofc [b]i would let her do that part of job[/b], to supervise over whole market of goods, in addition to items, creatures can be also traded, so i found this also as goods for trade so to speak, and well we can also include services market into this goods market in case there is someone who wants to work alone and offer his services openly on market (dont mistake this with jobs as for working for someone else who pays you, [b]in here i count in only entrepreneurs[/b]), so items and creatures need to be bought first to trade them later, so this is one way to spend founds on[/quote]

first off its kinda funny you would LET her do the job she is already doing ... and yes she is doing it very well already... secondly My part with her and giving her some of my funds would be counted among the entrepreneurs which takes me to your second part...
[quote name='Liberty4life' post='30295' date='May 5 2009, 06:42 AM']then second part of market that is needed is market of "human resources", yea exactly what we already have... slave auction was big hit wasnt it, well those werent actually slaves, it was more like job, and the one who bough one of them used them in some way, and "slave" got paid, just like in doing some job... only difference is that the one was sold like slave hehe, so this slavery seams to be more rp based jobs and still paid? wow nice, it could later nicely evolve into real jobs, who would say that one day you will be paid for rping, and on other side in same time real jobs can be paid, just like editing papers and other things mentioned by kriskah, well to this i will add one more thing that should be included in this, we have MDU, and where are lectures?? well lets boost this also up, everyone who makes a lecture/teaching for mdu should be paid, same thing for mda, who makes article, why not pay him[/quote]
you are touching on several things here some of which are already in planed work for the next auction
1. slaves are slaves just that but they volunteered so i gave this a commission reward not pay ...
a. could the slaves be further traded for a continued value ?
b. could slaves use their value as a base line for negotations?
2. Skilled Slaves like cooks body guards trainers and other things are in the works for the next auction i will be posting soon to take suggestions on this
3. i totally forgot about the uni i could easily do a similar fundraiser for them if they would like they can contact me along with the newspaper or any of the other things int he realm that need legit funds to pay for things ...

this all leads back to the banking you mention next too
[quote name='Liberty4life' post='30295' date='May 5 2009, 06:42 AM']and third part which is needed..... is money market, that means bank and guess what i plan to open one i will do job of exchanging currency (silver/gold), make people have theirs accounts, loans will become widely available and people will be even able to earn in bank for example savings and investing deposits (not sure if this is said like this on english), so since i know how real banks work, i think i wont have much problems in making this work just need to put all together and write it down [/quote]
as far as banking goes Kris is already making loans for those she knows she can trust ... i too could make some loans once i recoup come coin from creatures and i could see each org (paper, uni, archies, arts... others that may spring up) all having their own funds they could loan from would make for competitive rates also which is always a good thing

dont get personal loans like from me or other players confused with bank loans tho there could even be a system added where the bank had a ctc vault to hold codes in a way so they cant be sold traded or sacked while funds are pending repayment ... but this is just an idea

anyway thats my 2c
Kragel
The Metal Mage

[Kriskah Arcanu]

[quote name='Liberty4life' post='30295' date='May 5 2009, 07:42 AM']and well we can also include services market into this goods market in case there is someone who wants to work alone and offer his services openly on market (dont mistake this with jobs as for working for someone else who pays you, in here i count in only entrepreneurs), so items and creatures need to be bought first to trade them later, so this is one way to spend founds on

... i will add one more thing that should be included in this, we have MDU, and where are lectures?? well lets boost this also up, everyone who makes a lecture/teaching for mdu should be paid, same thing for mda, who makes article, why not pay him

and third part which is needed..... is money market, that means bank and guess what i plan to open one i will do job of exchanging currency (silver/gold), make people have theirs accounts, loans will become widely available and people will be even able to earn in bank for example savings and investing deposits (not sure if this is said like this on english), so since i know how real banks work, i think i wont have much problems in making this work just need to put all together and write it down [/quote]


Thanks for posting your ideas Lib.
Indeed services market are something I was considering to add later (I will soon be informing you about a Market Guild, but first i need to make some calls )

MDU professors... excelent! Who should I give the funds to be incharge of their salaries?

The bank idea is quite good too, I will really like to see the type of interest you will give.. to say... 100MDS.

Slavery auctions, As I recall Kragel said ar most for benefit good causes. It can be done later for helping some Guilds founds, Newspaper etc.

That doesnt mean regular emploies ( darn word, ill check it later ) couldn't do something similar to offer their services.

K

Edited May 5, 2009 by Kriskah Arcanu

[Treehill]

I wish to suggest some rules to do trades to prevent cheating at trades and similars:

1. One or two RPC should be always present
2. The trade should ocurr in real time with both parties in the same place to catalogue the event.(For a matter of trust and ethics the place should be chosen by the party that came to buy,not the seller that put the post here)
3. Both traders should give their trading itens to the rpc in charge that is trustful( i was thinking about Calyx or Ailith,mainly Ailith her name says it all,solver of conflicts)
4. After the rpc shall give the respective itens to the traders ending the transation.
5. It IS A MUST to have a the same rpc or a second one record everything that is happening,to prevent someone from lieing after or abusing.

Those are just a few rules that i've come upon trying to trade with dst...(sorry dst but better be safe than sorry)

[Liberty4life]

[quote name='Kragel' post='30310' date='May 5 2009, 07:09 PM']first off its kinda funny you would LET her do the job she is already doing ... and yes she is doing it very well already...[/quote]

oke i expressed myself with wrong words i see, i meant to say that she should continue doing that job, but not taking whole market as her job, or again in other words this means she would be best to remain in that section of market i described, i also said she should supervise it, in other words with that i meant as market will expand she will need helping hands, here comes in play good organization and that means guild

yea i also want to remind you that on last auction ya had rpcs and other popular people, thats why its earned so much, in future you will be mainly selling new folks as slaves so lets say ya will earn like 5 coins per slave, hmm this is just my view how will it look like, this doesnt means it will necessarily happen, but this is key thing to have new folks on auction becoz this will get them involved and that will make it easier to evolve on next stage to get theirs job and such and that can all trigger whole economy with real employers

as for bank idea, since people and employers are intended to have there money deposited in bank, and have theirs accounts, it means loans will be much easier to be given out, and thus savings can got easily implemented, becoz all money will be cycling on bank accounts, and we all know what it means, i will very soon give out all details who it will work exactly, and your idea with ctc vault is great becoz if player gives specific creature as guarantee that he will pay back his loan, i am will be forced to use that ctc and store that creature... in that case creature will lose age and level, etc so then even if player pays back his loan he is at loss, thats why i wont support much receiving ctcs as guarantee for loans, if this would be solved with kragels idea about ctc vault, this would pwn

[Guybrush Threepwood]

[quote name='stormrunner' post='30267' date='May 4 2009, 05:40 PM']really so I haven't started a very simple quest that anyone can do with the reward being a silver coin and ailith doesn't have her silver coin quest ether?


please do us all a favor if your only going to bring up things people are trying to fix and not offer to help, please just keep your peace. this is as nice as I can be about this[/quote]

Thanks for completely ignoring the majority of my post. Also, do you expect right off of the bat new MP3 or 2 players to start running around attempting to do quests to get help with their papers? I think help with their papers is likely something that will be provided for them for free from most players. Now, if we are talking about HTML and whatnot, that's something people won't likely want until later when they would likely have more coins.

My entire point in this is to bring up what a market needs in order to exist. Infinite amount of services/goods providable. (New players coming in will need help with papers, and no stormrunner, you don't have enough money to give a coin to every new MP3. I suppose a more reasonable thing would be to expect them to get silver coins from the shop early. I'm also not so sure we want to have MP3s having to pay for help with papers as has been suggested. Unless of course people are meaning more advanced HTML help as mentioned previously.

So back to infinite goods/services, this is currently only possible through paying for RP services/goods, as most people do not have tangible services or goods they can infinitely provide. My original question was how many people would give a tangible item, for a role play item? I'm still interested in the answer to that. Really, I'm not attempting to be condescending here, I am curious as to the answer.

@Stormrunner. I do believe Kriskah asked for foreseeable issues.

[dst]

Sorry for what Treehill? I was about to propose you the same thing but I had no time to make arrangements with any of the RPCs.

So I think it's a good idea and I highly support it.

And he**! i don't trust you either

[stormrunner]

[quote name='Guybrush Threepwood' post='30332' date='May 5 2009, 04:06 PM']Thanks for completely ignoring the majority of my post. Also, do you expect right off of the bat new MP3 or 2 players to start running around attempting to do quests to get help with their papers? I think help with their papers is likely something that will be provided for them for free from most players. Now, if we are talking about HTML and whatnot, that's something people won't likely want until later when they would likely have more coins.

My entire point in this is to bring up what a market needs in order to exist. Infinite amount of services/goods providable. (New players coming in will need help with papers, and no stormrunner, you don't have enough money to give a coin to every new MP3. I suppose a more reasonable thing would be to expect them to get silver coins from the shop early. I'm also not so sure we want to have MP3s having to pay for help with papers as has been suggested. Unless of course people are meaning more advanced HTML help as mentioned previously.

So back to infinite goods/services, this is currently only possible through paying for RP services/goods, as most people do not have tangible services or goods they can infinitely provide. My original question was how many people would give a tangible item, for a role play item? I'm still interested in the answer to that. Really, I'm not attempting to be condescending here, I am curious as to the answer.

@Stormrunner. I do believe Kriskah asked for foreseeable issues.[/quote]

ok first kragel, Kriskah and anyone besides guy who may get annoyed by my next post I'm sorry but I'm at my limit


ok now for the flame filled rant. guy listen and listen well stop bring up the same (....) we know already just because you can't step up and try to help those we are trying don't mean we need to hear you say the same (....) over and over we heard you the first (.......) time. and your right I can't allow help everyoone but at least I'm doing what I can and newsflash for you I'm a old as (....) player with 321 active days and I don't get silver easily in fact if it wasn't for luck and making a few items and trades I would have NONE AT ALL. so please get your head out our collective (.....) and find something to do. work on your role. help by trying to collecting coins for the market or just plain shuting up tell you have some new to bring up, we heard you the first time. heres a hint if no body answered it probably means they don't have one for you at the moment so stop bring it up

oh and since you need things spelled out guy, once again I'll spelll thing out for you

ailith's silver coin quest is just a riddle

mine is to send me a story I haven't even been picky about it really they take some effort and try it they got a coin, I really don't get anything tangible from that so since you can't understand. the (.......) answer is yes now shut up tell you have a point that hasn't already been adressed


and again I apologize to anyone besides guy who may have been offered by this post if requested I will delete it

Edited May 5, 2009 by stormrunner

[Kafuuka]

1.coins for helping with papers/html
A lot of people will help for free, but then again, a lot of people will give you all that 'inside information' that others promise future adepts, for free.

2.new players doing coin quests
There aren't that many hardcoded puzzles and quests and if you pay attention, you soon notice that certain players have a 'quest' page and others put quests in their hatelist. And what about the players that never read papers? I doubt they will pay others to help them write their own papers.

3. trade supervision
I get the not trusting part, but I'd rather see a trade interface where both parties have made their offer and agreed to the other parties' offer. Otherwise it's going to be a lot of trouble finding a supervisor and it will likewise not be a fun task.

4. trade logs
Once again, hardcoded automatic logging is both safer and less tedious. I suspect some people would prefer privacy and so it would also make sense the logs are only consulted when there are reason to be suspicious.

5. banking
I thought MD was going to have a primitive economy? What's next, stock options in Kafuuka Milling Inc? Does anyone want to start selling those and give me the proceeds?

6. Infinite items
This is probably just an unlucky naming. At any given point in time, the amount of items should be finite. (if it was infinite the value would be zero, since value is proportional to 1/supply.) There should however be a constant (or growing) flow of items, maintained by creation and destruction. Creation and destruction can be mimicked through the garbage alt idea, though that will require trusting a lot of people. Ailith and Stormrunner are currently 'creating', providing coins to players who do a simple quest. The recent auction and the item creation quests are 'destroying', taking coins and items out of circulation.
Basically we want to increase the flow and suggest to have more:
More items
More types of items (mundane items, limited use magical items, powerfull unique items)
More creators (and destructors)

7. More creators
I have stated this before but since it's already more than 10 posts ago...
Either this implies more RPCs, or the availability of an even more limited creation ability for the non-RPCs.
Imo it should have a limited amount of uses per month. It should cost a lot to acquire the ability (a wishpoint). It should be very limited in what it can do. Eg a miner can mine and get a couple of ores (iron, silver... maybe make it random which one you get at every attempt). A brewer can change any kind of wheat/mushroom into the appropriate alcoholic beverage (i forgot what blue ale is made from, but i guess there must be some mushroom based beverage in some fantasy novel somewhere). This is more restricting imo than Kragel, who can even make metallic muffins, not that I'd eat them. This would allow RPCs to focus on the unique items and not get burried in workorders for mundane items, while still having lots of items created and destroyed all the time. (I don't know of nonRPC care about the workload, but maybe, just maybe it will help more if i get RPCs to support this idea)
Anyone ever played Dwarffortress?
I've also mentioned death and taxes.. err thievery and taxes (death to the thieves?) as coin redistribution methods.

7b. More creators (bis)
You could also use more quests for coins, more jobs (or slavery)... but the more people you involve, the less transparent it becomes and now that the issue of distrust is raised... effort, manual maintenance... It would be so much easier to rely on programmed features.

8. "I appoliogise for not reading this all so carefully'
Wait, you what? Go back and read it you illiterate! Now you've even made me rant about this kind of stuff. And read my post at least five times, so that you can recite it without looking, I've made it long for that purpose you know

[Kriskah Arcanu]

The public funds will be divided into:

People with Quests so they may give coins as rewards.
People giving jobs (this has to be discussed a bit more first)
Rewards during events (Like the Festival)
buying items
specific market related funds (services: like publicing, auctioners, etc)

Many other discussions about item creation, and their propeties should continue, but for now we need to create an economy first (we need money and items flowing). Only then, these type of isuess will have a real efect on everyone.

So for now we have to continue giving ideas but also to put them in practice. I will soon contact you and start giving the Subsidy.

K

Edited May 6, 2009 by Kriskah Arcanu

[Guybrush Threepwood]

Let's just think for a second stormrunner, let's just try it for one second. And again, thanks for ignoring the entirety of my post. I have seen few, very very very few MP3s who have anything in their inventory at all. Even assuming they are willing to pay for paper help (which is an idea I don't like) most CAN'T. You have few coins, very few coins. And no, the fact that an RPC is giving silver coins for solving a QUEST, and ONE PERSON is paying for stories (something that actually has some value, unlike a imaginary surgery or elixer) does not mean that MOST players are willing to give their coins in purely RP interactions. So no, the question has not yet been answered, more than two, or three, or even four people willing to do it. If we are basing the markets infinite goods or services (not infinite at any one point Kafuuka, but perhaps the word "unending" would be more appropriate) on role play, most people have to be willing to do this. Perhaps a pole would be helpful?

[Kriskah Arcanu]

Quest´s Creators participating in the project: [b]Ailith[/b] (5MDS), [b]Raven[/b] (6MDS) [b]Stormrunner[/b] (5MDS), [b]Peace[/b] (5MDS).

Thank you for your support.

Quote Guy: "I have seen few, very very very few [b]MP3s who have anything in their inventory at all. Even assuming they are willing to pay for paper help (which is an idea I don't like) most CAN'T.[/b] You have few coins, very few coins. And no, the fact that an RPC is giving silver coins for solving a QUEST, and ONE PERSON is paying for stories (something that actually has some value, unlike a imaginary surgery or elixer) does not mean that [b]MOST players are willing to give their coins in purely RP interactions.[/b]"

The main idea discussed on the meeting was about using funds to help spread MDS. I believe to bring economy to life we need to build some sort of equilibrium in terms of wealth first. We shouldn't have auctions where most of the items are bought by two or three people.

[b]Never in our meeting we mentioned mp3 on any newplayer having to pay for help on their personal papers.[/b] What we said was that editing could be considered a type of salaried job.
But like I have said before, the salaried jobs has to be evaluated a bit more, we dont want people charging for helping others.

That is why I am only giving funds to quest and festival rewards (for now).

K

Edited May 7, 2009 by Kriskah Arcanu

[Intrigue]

[quote name='Guybrush Threepwood' post='30470' date='May 6 2009, 03:31 PM']I have seen few, very very very few MP3s who have anything in their inventory at all. Even assuming they are willing to pay for paper help (which is an idea I don't like) most CAN'T. You have few coins, very few coins. And no, the fact that an RPC is giving silver coins for solving a QUEST, and ONE PERSON is paying for stories (something that actually has some value, unlike a imaginary surgery or elixer) does not mean that MOST players are willing to give their coins in purely RP interactions. So no, the question has not yet been answered, more than two, or three, or even four people willing to do it. If we are basing the markets infinite goods or services (not infinite at any one point Kafuuka, but perhaps the word "unending" would be more appropriate) on role play, most people have to be willing to do this. Perhaps a pole would be helpful?[/quote]


This is one thing that I addressed in an earlier post... Have someone, perhaps an LHO who's already supposed to be helping new players, simply do their regular job of helping the MP3's, asking those new players they've helped if they've enjoyed their MD experience thus far and reward them a silver for answering. Granted.. it would take funnelling funds to a specific place and purpose, but it would also help give those people who are new some kind of currency to incorperate into the economy.

[Guybrush Threepwood]

Kriskah, I never implied that you said that people should pay for help with papers, but people have since. It was one idea about how money might exchange hands once the wealth is more spread out.


Edit: Actually, this was in fact discussed at the meeting.

Guybrush Threepwood:So, who is going to pay for helping people with papers?
Gauge:Nay Graziel, or they would not have any value.
Guybrush Threepwood:Will you give someone money and have them watch over that?
Gauge:I would gladly pay two silver for someone to help me with my paper.
Guybrush Threepwood:Do you want to start paying the LHOs?
.Kragel.:guy
Kriskah Arcanu:Ok let me explain.
Kriskah Arcanu:Pample already rewards that you know
Gauge:And I would pay another two for someone to help me find the answer to MRD's first question on his quest.
.Kragel.:people who need papers fixed will pwy the people who can help them

Edited May 18, 2009 by Guybrush Threepwood

[stormrunner]

guy once again why are you still talking, now shut the hell up. your merely being pointless and annoying, I'm tired of dealing with you. to be frank(like thats anything new) your being nothing but a brat who can't seem to get the point we have explained over and over again


we know it's not perfect but we're trying unlike you, repeating the same problem over and over again is not helping, now don't bring it up again, ever. in fact if I ever see your name on this topic again it be too soon

once again this is my nice request next time will be a flame filled rant only it will be spoiler tags with the real words that tend to be hurtful not dots. we have tried to explain in many ways to you guy. oh and I know some people may not like the word I'm about to use but I don't care right now I'll edit it when I wake up if it's a problem. guy, are you retarded, you didn't imply you out right said it, please read your own quotes before trying to make a point with them.

on to on topic matters: one I am still doing the silver quest and I have a lot more coins now so I'm not limited to how many I give for a good one. two if any one with a lot silver would like to do run a quest to give them out but don't quite know what to make come see me I'll try to help you I am at the howling gate, if I'm idle just leave a pm I'll get back to you asap.

[Kriskah Arcanu]

It is my idea or the entire forum has become agresive these days...? Maybe we are all a bit stress out...

Ok, just to announce a few things.

* If quest creators need more funds for rewards please PM.
* If there are items owners willing to make a deal, but do not want coins I have a few creatures too, please contact me.
* Item donations are well received too but remember i am a trader, so at least let me make an offer
* I will start an (item) and creature's auction market in a few weeks. This time in Loreroot. I will speak to the authorities and keep you posted.

I hope God Mur would realese more items so they can be offered at Lore's market... *sighs* (Kriskah prays some times)

K Edited May 18, 2009 by Kriskah Arcanu

[Guybrush Threepwood]

Oddly enough Stormrunner, no one has answered any of my questions. I have offered ideas, I am glad to help. Perhaps you could actually add things on occasion rather than just ranting about nothing? And I have no idea what you are talking about "quotes" "imply" or "trying to make a point with them". Really, perhaps you should be more specific in your complaints. Actually, just saying something AT ALL, would be lovely. Threatening to cuss me out Storm, is really not much of a threat at all. Will it hurt me at all? No. Will it make you look like a complete moron? Yes, so go ahead.

So again, anyone think it would be helpful to see if people would be willing to trade silver coins for roleplay? I know Shady Jester has gone as far as to say the coins are useless. I am interested if that would mean he would trade coins for RP interaction. Of course this would be under the theoretical assumption that he had RP interaction.

Here is my current understanding of the market. People give Kriskah money for things, or Kragel, or whatever. Kriskah or Kragel then gives money to people for quest whatnots. These people then use the money for what? Trading critters and what else? I hear RP interaction a lot, but how many people would trade a coin for a RP interaction if they thought they could get a drachorn if they saved enough coins? I'm curious to know how many people would actually trade coins for things like "muffins" or "surgery", and so far I have only got an answer from about five people saying that, "of course everyone would". It really doesn't seem so obvious to me, maybe I'm just being silly.

[stormrunner]

ok that says everything right there guy we answered you many times says we didn't for about the fifth time I don't feel like doing a list of quote and your just not wroth it, so please use the grey matter between your ears and figure it out yourself I'm done trying to teach you. this why I'm not in the business of helping people, teaching lessons or telling stories.

Edited May 20, 2009 by stormrunner

[Kriskah Arcanu]

[quote name='Guybrush Threepwood' post='31737' date='May 20 2009, 06:30 PM']Here is my current understanding of the market. People give Kriskah money for things, or Kragel, or whatever. Kriskah or Kragel then gives money to people for quest whatnots. These people then use the money for what? Trading critters and what else? I hear RP interaction a lot, but how many people would trade a coin for a RP interaction if they thought they could get a drachorn if they saved enough coins? I'm curious to know how many people would actually trade coins for things like "muffins" or "surgery", and so far I have only got an answer from about five people saying that, "of course everyone would". It really doesn't seem so obvious to me, maybe I'm just being silly.[/quote]

Guy. You got to be kidding me... you just leave me with no words. Where you in the same meeting we all did? :lol:
I am sorry, but it is a bit funny after all we have talk and talk you come with this type of questions. I prefer to take it with hummor rather then think we really said those confussing things. I dont really understand what are you saying, I will try to explain this to you again.

The public funds where divided into:

People with Quests so they may give coins as rewards.
buying items

As a merchant I will be buyin and selling Items. The main market purpusse is everyone can buy items (and creats), everyone should be able to participate on the market. That is why we need coins to spread. Hopely Items will do the same.

(In other topics I remarked jobs rewards will have to be revaluated so people dont abuse of it. You will find more about the market in other threads)

K

Edited May 21, 2009 by Kriskah Arcanu

[Guybrush Threepwood]

Ok, so you want people to have coins, you are spreading them out. These coins will then be used to buy creatures and items, and that will be the end of it? Or are we depending on Mur creating more items? I understand where your money is going, but I'm NOT seeing an infinite supply of infinite goods/services.

I understand where you said the money is going Kriskah, that's not the issue. How will it keep flowing? And it's fine, don't bother answering this.

[Burns]

creatures and items will keep the coins flowing, technically endlessly, practically until a few players who don't care for the market have all of them, as easy as that ^^

as long as there are younglings with coins who want creatures, no matter whether lorerootian, necrovion or birdies, we will sell those creatures to them, and buy rare shop-creatures (say a bloodpact with claw 2, or a joker with anti-freeze, something along these lines) from those who have the luck of having such creatures.
technically, this could go on and on and on, but practically, there are players who don't need the help from others to get whatever creatures they want, and while some of them will set easy quests to give out their coins, some won't, and in the VERY long run, someone who has no intentions of joining up with that market and who has all creatures and items s/he wants will own all the coins and they will be gone from the system.

you couldn't prevent that from happening even if you got a neverending flow of items, unless those items were slightly overpowered (anti-freeze to all your creatures, plus 1000 attack to all your creatures, something along those lines for combat, complete invisibility, hiding name, avi and mp and giving a new chat profile instead, teleportation... for RP) because the 'common' things like plus 20 atk or plus 3000 vit are definitely not worth a coin for a veteran...

so, my idea of keeping a flow up would be the constant creation AND destruction of really valueable things, like those slightly overpowered i already mentioned, like an invisibility cloak which has 5-10 uses, a teleportation spell that can be casted 5-10 times, or a total anti-freeze that can be used 5-10 times before dissolving itself... such things, some that are worth the work of getting them ^^

however, this would again make it necessary that someone controls those items, which brings me back to the monopoly problem, and therefore i further suggest that such items are made by a hardcoded mechanism in certain limitations [i can't tell for sure, but to keep them valueable i'd say one per month], but NOT for a certain person/themselves, all they can do is creating the item and then the item will be randomly given to a player who has been active in the past 48 hours, in that way you can keep it flowing without having some persons controlling them [power compromises]

too good that you revived the topic while i was having a creative phase, i wouldn't have bothered to think back else :lol:

[Kafuuka]

[quote name='Burns' post='31749' date='May 21 2009, 07:38 AM']creatures and items will keep the coins flowing, technically endlessly, practically until a few players who don't care for the market have all of them, as easy as that ^^[/quote]
If they don't care, then why would they bother gathering coins? You can get a couple of coins without it being your aim, but to acquire a large part of the coins in circulation, would require a lot of trading. Why would you do that, unless you were planning to spend the coins on something? To have the most coins?

[quote]you couldn't prevent that from happening even if you got a neverending flow of items, unless those items were slightly overpowered (anti-freeze to all your creatures, plus 1000 attack to all your creatures, something along those lines for combat, complete invisibility, hiding name, avi and mp and giving a new chat profile instead, teleportation... for RP) because the 'common' things like plus 20 atk or plus 3000 vit are definitely not worth a coin for a veteran...[/quote]
I don't think the coin value is stable. Even real world currency is not stable and if a new batch of items is released, the market might change dramatically. Who is to say a coin wouldn't drop to being worth 5 atk? Some even stated a coin isn't worth anything at all...

[quote]so, my idea of keeping a flow up would be the constant creation AND destruction of really valueable things, like those slightly overpowered i already mentioned, like an invisibility cloak which has 5-10 uses, a teleportation spell that can be casted 5-10 times, or a total anti-freeze that can be used 5-10 times before dissolving itself... such things, some that are worth the work of getting them ^^[/quote]
This is along the lines of what me and others proposed earlier: constant creation and destruction of items, with a subset of items that give a temporary bonus. But creatures are already constantly created and some of them are also in high demand . The economy might just survive on that alone, or at the least give a lot of time for new code to be made.

One danger to the economy might be people who have a little coin, but not enough to buy what they want. What will they do? Try to gather more coins, even if it might take a year to get enough? That is an ever growing amount of coins outside of the economy for a long time.

[Burns]

i think that gathering coins is a natural by-.product of helping newbies...

you know, i can get any creature for anybody for free, but if i did it, i would constantly be bugged for creatures, that's why i won't give out creatures endlessly without wanting some coins for it... however, i won't spend them for things i don't need :/

and the ideas i saw so far were mainly about destroying items after some time, not after a certain number of uses... on the other hand, it's been quite a while since i last checked back XD

and i guess that coins that stick on a character for a year are not out of the market, but a way to make the rest of the coins more valueable... at least in my point of view

as to creatures: true, they are constantly created, but not worth that much... yesterday i sacced almost all my creatures, and by now i'm only 2 grasans [and some age] short from what i had before, so the value of the 'normal' creatures is not that extremely high imo...

and well, i was trying to be creative and under the influence of alcohol, not thought out to all possible ends ^^

[Guybrush Threepwood]

Yeah Burns that was what I meant. Rare creatures are not so abundant anymore, and most people who have them don't want to sell them. That means that for the most part this market is depending on Mur creating more and more items. Which will just flood the market. Of course for people like Burns and Shady, these items only have use if they can help them get creatures currently. I like the idea of consumable items, like, say, a muffin? Eat it and it restores some health. I know Burns has said little things aren't MUCH use for vetrans, but it's more use than some coin in your inventory is it not? I like the idea of consumable items (as well as non consumeable ones) but this would mean Mur would have to do a bunch of programming.

[Kriskah Arcanu]

A long list of commun and special items is now on Mur's hands. We hope items will soon start appearing randomly.
Soon I will start recolecting them for our next market item-auction.
When I get 6-7 I will squedule an auction. Please be patient, I wont sell until then.

(I am accepting 1 Gold coin = 15 silver coins)

For now I will ask those with 5 or more items let others get the chance to aquire items during auctions.

Regards,

K

PS. For items prices I will take under consideration the results of Kafuuka's poll. So please those who haven't answered yet, here is the link:

[url="http://ihazquest.x10hosting.com/survey/survey.php"]http://ihazquest.x10hosting.com/survey/survey.php[/url]

Edited May 24, 2009 by Kriskah Arcanu