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Dojo Meeting Log (Day 211 - 212)

Muratus del Mur

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A dojo representative please send me a list of desired changes, changes to fit the discussed issues.
The opinion of the ones against the dojo i assume is "no more dojo". The worst state the dojo can get is to be taken his ban spells away or other penalisation ways. There is nothing to dissolve because there is nothing "created", and there is no reason to forbid a dojo. Also, making a sanctuary for the dojo nullifies the very meaning of the dojo, but if you do want a sanctuary i will redirect you to the closest sanctuary allready available. I also think mp5 have nothing to do with the dojo, but its a personal opinion.

The only real issue i see , is if the dojo should be in such an important and central place.

It was a mistake for me to support the dojo with anything at all. The reason the dojo existed and had a meaning was especialy because it managed to keep understanding and organised fighting WITHOUT strictly forced rules. The second the dojo had any power to force that, the trouble started. A central position is harming the dojo and is forcing its protectors to use whatever means they have to defend it, causing a silent or not so silent war between dojo and the rest.

I want the dojo to be set by players for players so to say. If i had any wish to reinforce anything or force the existance of the dojo, you wouldnt get to the point to discuss the issue at all.

In my view the dojo is a great initiative, but also an optional thing. You cant be a dojo offender if you do not believe in the dojo ways. Of course that leads to other issues, but the ultimate thing is this .. what if in place of the dojo was a sanctuary?? what then? Because then you couldnt attakc anyone there. I see the dojo as a player agreed sanctuary ..can it exist GOOD, if it cant, thats it...

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For the purposes of clarity, i've removed people raising their hands from the text, and random/repeated talk. so if it jumps to people and you dont get why, that's the reason, or they butted in, but they actually say something *shrug* debates for you. I hope it's clear enough for people to read

In Notepad,for those that want to view it that way, same text[attachment=1051:dojo 211 (edited).txt]

[31/07/09 21:07] .Chewett.:Right, anyone want to start this?
[31/07/09 21:07] .Chewett.:or shall we keep mumbling?
[31/07/09 21:08] .Chewett.:Anyways. Lets have a nice clean debate. No insults. Over to Ailith
[31/07/09 21:08] .Ailith.: *nods to Driftwood* Go
[31/07/09 21:08] Driftwood:If, for the benefit of those who are somewhat ignorant, the express purpose of this debate could be Stated, I would be obliged.
[31/07/09 21:10] .Ailith.:The deabate has come out of some concerns about the effectiveness of the DOJO and it\'s method of punishment recently
[31/07/09 21:10] Driftwood:Thank you.
[31/07/09 21:11] :.Ailith. nods

[31/07/09 21:11] .Ailith.: *nods to Eymere* Go
[31/07/09 21:12] Eymere:I feel it\'s important fo newbies to be able to train safely. Maybe some special location should be dedicated to that purpose with restriction so it doesn\'t depend

on good will anymore
[31/07/09 21:13] .Ailith.: *nods* who would like to respond?

[31/07/09 21:13] .Ailith.: *nods to Ectremere* Go
[31/07/09 21:14] Ectremere:The issue there is that the dojo is 100% run by the community and as has been stated by Mur it is up to us to govern it and make it work effectively or not,

so making it a special location where good
[31/07/09 21:14] Ectremere:will would not be an issue is not an easy task
[31/07/09 21:15] Banshee Steel:i like the idea of an area for newbies i\'ve been getting hammered anytime i go in the dojoarea and cant keep my creatures alive long enough to get them

[31/07/09 21:17] Eymere:Maybe a place where a formal agreement will have to be given by both duelling players could be set ?
[31/07/09 21:17] Ectremere:again that would require coding and a little more power then is given to most players so would need murs help at the very least to make that happen
[31/07/09 21:18] MIHAc:i agree with eymere... new people need a haven.. a safe place where they can train upon agreement only
[31/07/09 21:18] Eymere: *bows* indeed. Is it not an option here ?
[31/07/09 21:18] MIHAc:or not be attacked if they wish so

[31/07/09 21:18] .Ailith.: *nods* RJ?
[31/07/09 21:19] .SmartAlekRJ.:oh back to whoevers statements saying DOJO is for newbies to train
[31/07/09 21:19] .SmartAlekRJ.:first off newbie status is mp3
[31/07/09 21:19] MIHAc:...well not just newbies... mp5,6 you name it
[31/07/09 21:20] .SmartAlekRJ.:therefore mp4 and mp5 are free to attack technically based on that statement
[31/07/09 21:21] .SmartAlekRJ.:secondly, dojo is an abused section and always has been because it creates a flux in base stats
[31/07/09 21:22] Eymere:I spoke about newbies but i don\'t mean others don\'t need it too.

[31/07/09 21:26] Poppi Chullo:i\'ll speak ailith..may i?
[31/07/09 21:27] .Ailith.:I asked you a while ago, please do so , Poppi
[31/07/09 21:27] Poppi Chullo:from my opinion..dojo is not a training camp..so the rules are applied for ANY MP lvl..
[31/07/09 21:28] Poppi Chullo:it was a gathered for a new players..thats all..

[31/07/09 21:31] .Ailith.:MIHac, please speak in response to Poppi
[31/07/09 21:32] MIHAc:it seems i worded myself incorectly... but what dojo should be is a nice idea... a safe place
[31/07/09 21:32] MIHAc:unfortunately not enough people folow the rules
[31/07/09 21:32] Ectremere:not positive what you mean poppi. first started out sounding like your saying its for any mp but then looked like you said its only for begginers mind

[31/07/09 21:33] Eymere:I can\'t say, but I guess dojo is useful to high mp too ?
[31/07/09 21:33] .Ailith.:Ectremere, if you wish to respond, raise your hand like everyone else *nods to Poppi*
[31/07/09 21:34] Poppi Chullo:if u think thats not positive,then its negative,whats the negative side?

[31/07/09 21:36] .Ailith.:Death Ring, you may respond
[31/07/09 21:37] Death Ring:err i want to know the issue here properly... you people dont like the DOJO whole togethere.. or you dont like the dojo for the mp5?
[31/07/09 21:37] Death Ring:and its not correct to say newbie means only mp3
[31/07/09 21:37] Death Ring:since .... i am going to jump to mp5 soon enough and i have no clue about it.. on how to do the exp reduction ritual and all

[31/07/09 21:38] :.Ailith. nods to Poppi
[31/07/09 21:38] Death Ring:without the dojo how will i learn? .. i wont be able to walk anywhere for already mp5 player have MAD ass stats
[31/07/09 21:38] Death Ring:they will crush any newly advanced mp5
[31/07/09 21:38] Poppi Chullo:for me..newbies are the players that play the game for the first time..
[31/07/09 21:38] Death Ring:thats why we need dojo to help the new guys who come to mp5.. so they can get some exp in the start and some stats.. before they go out with full army

[31/07/09 21:40] .Ailith.: *nods* chewett?
[31/07/09 21:40] .Chewett.:Right, firstly. the main issue is of the dojos job
[31/07/09 21:41] .Chewett.:What is it really here to do?
[31/07/09 21:41] .Chewett.:If you think about this it was first set up as a ... place to train for newbs
[31/07/09 21:41] .Chewett.:However these newbs did survive before the dojo and will survive after it
[31/07/09 21:41] .Chewett.:If it was set up for noobs how come players like dst and cless, hardly noobish, are bound by its rules
[31/07/09 21:42] .Chewett.:So i dont think that the dojo has a purpose at mp5
[31/07/09 21:42] .Chewett.:If you have got that far. it is one of the cutoff points for noobs
[31/07/09 21:42] .Chewett.:then you know how to play.
[31/07/09 21:43] .Chewett.:they dont need training rits or anything. They want battles
[31/07/09 21:43] .Chewett.:And as there are less people online sometimes... there are less to attack
[31/07/09 21:43] .Chewett.:The problem with the dojo is that its too open
[31/07/09 21:44] .Chewett.:its in a much too public location, people breeze by
[31/07/09 21:44] .Chewett.:Look at GGG, it works. and doesnt have Ban or any other spells
[31/07/09 21:44] .Chewett.:That is because it is in a relatively sheltered place
[31/07/09 21:45] .Chewett.:If you were to move the dojo there would be less trouble. People wouldnt need to stop mp5s using it
[31/07/09 21:46] .Chewett.:If you were to move it you could keep the current setup and have a lot less running attacks.
[31/07/09 21:46] .Chewett.:If we were to move the dojo to somewhere, perhaps off up at Marinds rounabout mp5s could be there without people running by
[31/07/09 21:47] .Chewett.:The dojo needs changes
[31/07/09 21:47] .Chewett.:Either move it or allow mp5\'s to attack
[31/07/09 21:48] .Chewett.:Now you can isult me via pm or yim

[31/07/09 21:48] .Ailith.: *nods to Poppi* you wish to respond?
[31/07/09 21:50] Poppi Chullo:yes.. i agree with chewett to move it somewhere,because newbies ussualy end up there after the story line,so the rules may broke everytime because they

dont know that before..
[31/07/09 21:51] Poppi Chullo:so..u cant warn every newbies for that..
[31/07/09 21:51] Poppi Chullo:to much waisting for the staff i think..
[31/07/09 21:51] .SmartAlekRJ.:well you can with nasty messaages yelling at them not to attack

[31/07/09 21:52] .Ailith.: *nods to mcvitis shadow* Go
[31/07/09 21:52] Mcvities shadow:Ok
[31/07/09 21:53] Mcvities shadow:Well as many people have pointed out many mp5\'s believe that they do not need it or shoould not need it
[31/07/09 21:53] Mcvities shadow:I would like to point out that it was created by mp5\'s and 6\'s.
[31/07/09 21:54] Mcvities shadow:If they wished it only for noobs then they would never have made the point clear that *this applies to all mp levels*
[31/07/09 21:54] Mcvities shadow:if people like chewett do not like the dojo then they need not use it
[31/07/09 21:54] Mcvities shadow:They can find many more people OUTSIDE the dojo

[31/07/09 21:55] .Ailith.: *nods to Granos*
[31/07/09 21:57] Granos:The dojo has always been labled a school of combat as such it is their manate to teach and protect newbs in terms of combat, Tey have been empowerd by the

society of md and the society now has qualmes
[31/07/09 21:58] Granos:The Dojo, has not been teaching people about proper combat, as such we have players reaching mp5 unpreapred for what to face, mp5s who complain about

combat being unfair,
[31/07/09 21:59] Granos:The dojo has been granted the right to punish players, this has been abused as the community as agreed to, they are a social fuction not dictatorship, they are

not accepted by society or regocnized
[31/07/09 22:00] Granos:as such then they should not ban people they so reflect on their approch introspectivly
[31/07/09 22:01] Granos:Now I motion that the dojo should be moved as well as be limited to only having dreams as a plausable punishment for multiple offenders, be forced to teach

people and exclude all mp5 from all aspects
[31/07/09 22:01] Granos:of the dojo along with alliance players as if one is in an alliance one should already have a good graps of the ideas of the world and combat of md ad not need

such nonsense

[31/07/09 22:01] .Ailith.: *nods to starfox*
[31/07/09 22:02] STARFOX:these are just suggestions
[31/07/09 22:02] STARFOX:i suggest there be 3 dojo;s
[31/07/09 22:03] STARFOX:one for mp3 probably in no mans land
[31/07/09 22:03] STARFOX:one for mp4
[31/07/09 22:03] STARFOX:hmmm dont know about mp5\'s though you can try making a dojo for a few months for people like death ring
[31/07/09 22:03] STARFOX:after that you can get rid of the dojo for mp5\'s depends really on the mp5 group
[31/07/09 22:04] STARFOX:in making multple dojo\'s we can make this alot cleaner
[31/07/09 22:04] STARFOX:and much more enjoyable for the frustrated newcommers who dont know anything yet
[31/07/09 22:05] STARFOX:when it comes to punishments i believe i have to agree
[31/07/09 22:05] STARFOX:with the dreams
[31/07/09 22:05] STARFOX:instead of bans
[31/07/09 22:05] STARFOX:or maybe a jail
[31/07/09 22:05] STARFOX:where they have to stay in this jail for a period or pay a fine

[31/07/09 22:06] .Ailith.: *nods to Grido*
[31/07/09 22:07] .Grido.:right, first off i\'ll repeat what i\'ve stated miltiple times ont he forum which i read from Starfox\'s words that he doesnt know
[31/07/09 22:07] .Grido.:Jail = Ban, they\'re one and the same
[31/07/09 22:07] .Grido.:when someone is banned they go to jail
[31/07/09 22:08] .Grido.:i think that Dojo shouldnt have the spell anyway, it leaves a permanant record on the player for something which is against community rules
[31/07/09 22:08] .Grido.:note community rules, not game rules
[31/07/09 22:09] .Grido.:someone mentioned at the start of the debate about having an area which Mur puts regulations on, game-forced ways
[31/07/09 22:09] .Grido.:that WONT happen, community enforced means Mur should not have basicly anything to do with it in my opinion
[31/07/09 22:10] .Grido.:as it happens he has done various things to help it, which is his own choice
[31/07/09 22:11] .Grido.:if they NEED a spell to aid them, then give them a long term attack-lock spell to use
[31/07/09 22:11] .Grido.:the simple fact they need a spell at all means that at least a portion of the community does not enforce the Dojo
[31/07/09 22:12] .Grido.:which being a a community enforced project, well....
[31/07/09 22:13] .Grido.:right, location, yes, move it, somewhere out of the way, i see the reasoning behind where it is now, but people run through it all the time
[31/07/09 22:13] .Grido.:it should not apply to mp5\'s, no question about that, my opinion is that about mid-way through mp4 you shouldnt need it either, you tend to know someone who

can teach you privately by then
[31/07/09 22:14] .Grido.:besides which before the Dojo existed people learnt fine
[31/07/09 22:15] .Grido.:baring me, i\'m rubbish at fighting, have rubbish stats etc, i still dont use the Dojo though
[31/07/09 22:16] .Grido.:ahh yes, only one Dojo please, Mur announced bit back outside defensive quarters was a Dojo i have never seen anyone doing anything there
[31/07/09 22:17] .Grido.:MDP has very little help that i\'ve seen, understaffed perhaps, another lack of community enforcement
[31/07/09 22:17] STARFOX:without people reinforcing the rules
[31/07/09 22:17] STARFOX:there would be chaos
[31/07/09 22:17] STARFOX:thats why we have jails and cops
[31/07/09 22:17] STARFOX:because if people just yells at you
[31/07/09 22:18] STARFOX:there would be chaos in the dojo
[31/07/09 22:18] STARFOX:and about you saying that peoplelearnt fine when the dojo wasnt around
[31/07/09 22:18] STARFOX:well we people learned how to use fire before too
[31/07/09 22:18] STARFOX:but with rocks
[31/07/09 22:18] STARFOX:now we use matches
[31/07/09 22:18] STARFOX:etc
[31/07/09 22:19] STARFOX:can you see my point?
[31/07/09 22:19] .Ailith.:Thank you starfox *nods to Grido*
[31/07/09 22:19] .Grido.:Star, i know that it helps people
[31/07/09 22:19] .Grido.:i\'m aware of that, i\'m not saying to get rid of it
[31/07/09 22:19] .Grido.:but mp3\'s need it. most of mp4, and certainly mp5 dont
[31/07/09 22:22] .Grido.:to work it needs more people to help, if you have nobody there helping people just use it as a complaining ground \'\'such a person attacked me here\'\' except

the person complaining isnt training there
[31/07/09 22:22] .Grido.:they\'re just sitting there doing nothing
[31/07/09 22:23] .Grido.:in real life there are laws, enforced by cops (or whatever) , in MD we have game laws which are enoforced by, well me usually (besides the point) such as

swearing, game link spamming
[31/07/09 22:24] .Grido.:the dojo is not a law, it is a community project, enforced by the community, it should not have game laws which the same effect, imposed upon the area

[31/07/09 22:25] .Ailith.: *nods to soulrider*
[31/07/09 22:26] SoulRider:thank you, Ailith
[31/07/09 22:26] SoulRider:As in has been establlished, the Dojo\'s location, unlike that of GGG, contribute much ot its current problems.
[31/07/09 22:26] SoulRider:I very much agree with relocating the Dojo however that still does not stop any mp5 from attacking people in it thus the question remains if a Dojo is needed in

[31/07/09 22:27] SoulRider:The GGG applies to all mp levels, is it not? I dont understand why we can\'t have the same for the Dojo.
[31/07/09 22:28] SoulRider:To comment on what Granos have mentioned earlier, not all who are in an alliance/guild can protect themselves. say for exmaple someone who\'s been invited
[31/07/09 22:29] SoulRider:not because of military stregth but becasue that someone can contribute something to it
[31/07/09 22:30] SoulRider:as to how the Dojo can improve, take closer look on why GGG is working out
[31/07/09 22:31] SoulRider:aside from it\'s location, i dare say that GGG has enough military power
[31/07/09 22:31] SoulRider:to enforce it\'s policy
[31/07/09 22:31] SoulRider:Personally again, if the Dojo as Grido says a community enforced thing
[31/07/09 22:32] SoulRider:then i dont see the need for spells

[31/07/09 22:33] .Ailith.: *nods to Woodsman*
[31/07/09 22:34] Woodsman:LHO\'s and the dojo is very important for player retention, specifically MP3\'s
[31/07/09 22:34] Woodsman:i believe teaching is the biggest benefit of the dojo. like Grido was saying it needs teachers.
[31/07/09 22:34] Woodsman:MP3\'s get frustrated the quickest and are the most likely to leave as a result.
[31/07/09 22:35] Woodsman:as stated apparently the location brings about the most problems and moving seems the most logical solution.
[31/07/09 22:36] Woodsman:then i thought about what Starfox said about more dojos. at first i thought it stupid *smirks* then i thought again.
[31/07/09 22:36] Woodsman:mp4\'s/mp5\'s need their own dojos, their tactics are more advanced and they need to be more secluded
[31/07/09 22:36] Woodsman:i think 1 advanced dojo per land would be a good solution
[31/07/09 22:37] Woodsman:each land would take it upon itself to train whoever comes to them, if accepted
[31/07/09 22:37] Woodsman:advanced teachers in these dojos
[31/07/09 22:37] Woodsman:the dojo at the carnival is good because it IS centrally located, new players need an easy spot to find
[31/07/09 22:38] Fenrir Greycloth:If this does work out, I suggest the entrance to each land. The Bridge, the Gate to Necro, the Gate to Marind\'s Bell, and the Loreroot Front Entrance.
[31/07/09 22:39] Woodsman:something else i thought about is a 3 day period where mp3\'s can\'t be attacked, that would depend on Mur and thus not dojo related, but new players get

frustrated by being ripped apart immediately

[31/07/09 22:39] .Grido.: (I\'d just like to point out that LHO does not mean Dojo, they are not all Dojo staff, please don\'t contact them for Dojo matters unless they are stated as being

Dojo staff)
[31/07/09 22:39] .Grido.: (pm me if you have any illogical problems with that)

[31/07/09 22:40] :.Ailith. nods to Sir Noobalot
[31/07/09 22:40] Sir Noobalot:when you enter each dojo..shouldnt there be a sign saying \"DOJO\" and i kinda had my idea destoried
[31/07/09 22:41] Sir Noobalot:so theres no point of me of saying any of this at all so im done
[31/07/09 22:41] .Grido.: (i did message you why not Noob...)

[31/07/09 22:41] .Ailith.: *nods to Fenrir*
[31/07/09 22:42] Fenrir Greycloth:I would like to say first of all, WOOT.
[31/07/09 22:42] Fenrir Greycloth:And thank you Grido for saying most of what my talk was to be about.
[31/07/09 22:42] Fenrir Greycloth:The dojo is meant to teach MP3s and MP4s how to set and train creatures.
[31/07/09 22:43] Fenrir Greycloth:If you manage to make it to MP5 not knowing how to do this, congrats.
[31/07/09 22:43] Fenrir Greycloth:You are an imbecile.
[31/07/09 22:43] Fenrir Greycloth:However, you may not be good at it, or you may have no interest in it.
[31/07/09 22:44] Fenrir Greycloth:What ever the case, by MP5 you should have found your little niche in MD.
[31/07/09 22:44] Fenrir Greycloth:Whether it is with the RPers of Loreroot, the Stat Gainers of GG, or the Hardcore evil people of Necrovion, it is up to you.
[31/07/09 22:45] Fenrir Greycloth:Since Calyx has left, the main teachers (Calyx herself, King Bull, others I cannot remember) the dojo has started to die slowly.
[31/07/09 22:46] Fenrir Greycloth:Sorry, the main teachers are no longer present in the Dojo.
[31/07/09 22:46] Fenrir Greycloth:The fact that the Dojo staff are not hired for their ability to teach, but for their friendships with certain individuals
[31/07/09 22:46] Fenrir Greycloth:does not help
[31/07/09 22:46] Fenrir Greycloth:Sol, Aql, lots of people. [img]http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/public/style_emoticons//blum.gif[/img]
[31/07/09 22:46] Fenrir Greycloth:Cless. ;)
[31/07/09 22:47] Fenrir Greycloth:What I believe needs to be done is a trimming of the herds of people on the dojo staff.
[31/07/09 22:47] Fenrir Greycloth:Not a single one of them have shown any degree of progress with fighting.
[31/07/09 22:48] Fenrir Greycloth:None of them are significant in the teaching of others.
[31/07/09 22:48] Fenrir Greycloth:Yes, lots of people like them, but just because someone is popular, does that give them the right to hold a position of power? (Politions are not liked...

>.> )
[31/07/09 22:49] Fenrir Greycloth:I want to see people being taught by those Dojo Staff members, not being policed by them.
[31/07/09 22:49] Fenrir Greycloth:LHO don\'t run around the game looking for rule breakers, they help others first, and stop rule breakers second or third... or whatever... [img]http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/public/style_emoticons//blum.gif[/img]
[31/07/09 22:50] Fenrir Greycloth:This is what I would like to see done with the Dojo, remove the people who do nothing but police.
[31/07/09 22:51] Fenrir Greycloth:Someone who isn\'t afraid to hurt peoples feelings.
[31/07/09 22:51] Fenrir Greycloth:Not me either.. .>.>
[31/07/09 22:51] Fenrir Greycloth:Because that is bound to be what will happen if this is done.

[31/07/09 22:51] .Ailith.: *nods to Burns*
[31/07/09 22:52] *Burns*:ok, one thing to start with: you will not like what you hear, but i\'d appreciate if you don\'t interupt me... thanks
[31/07/09 22:52] *Burns*:ok, first of all: the location
[31/07/09 22:53] *Burns*:the location makes no sense at all, newbies don\'t care for the dojo at all, it could as well be anywhere else
[31/07/09 22:53] *Burns*:it MADE sense while willow\'s was willow\'s, as some of us dropped by while we waited for cooldown, now it\'s \'too far\'
[31/07/09 22:54] *Burns*:next: the crowd
[31/07/09 22:54] *Burns*:my opinion is that a player who is unable to defend himslef from possible attackers shouldn\'t idle in a place where combat is at allowed AT ALL
[31/07/09 22:55] *Burns*:with idle, i mean stopping there, not the real \'idle\'-mode
[31/07/09 22:55] *Burns*:no matter which mp, which ally, which social network, weaklings don\'t idle outside sancs
[31/07/09 22:56] *Burns*:the mp5-issue:
[31/07/09 22:56] *Burns*:any mp5 can get better help at GoE than at the dojo, we all know that
[31/07/09 22:57] *Burns*:there is no reason for an experienced mp5 to be in dojo, except for teaching
[31/07/09 22:57] *Burns*:and no teachers are there since no 5-crowd EVER comes by, and those few who do it are ally and have 40 cooldown
[31/07/09 22:58] *Burns*:summarized: the dojo is useless for 5, as some already said
[31/07/09 22:58] *Burns*:hit and runners:
[31/07/09 23:00] *Burns*:avoid by setting the dojo to a sanc, probably fenth\'s, which is close to GoE and possibly attracts teachers
[31/07/09 23:00] *Burns*:the social structure is the same, teachers help weaklings, but no problems with unwanted attacks
[31/07/09 23:01] *Burns*:two exits allow players to go out for a fight if they want one without risking to run into lurkers (people waiting for weaklings to leave the sanc)
[31/07/09 23:02] *Burns*:of course the mp3 need help with rits, but not necessarily in a plave where you can be attacked...
[31/07/09 23:03] *Burns*:teachers:
[31/07/09 23:03] *Burns*:most of them are weaklings!
[31/07/09 23:03] *Burns*:half the mp5 have more knowledge about rits than the dojo-volunteers!!
[31/07/09 23:04] *Burns*:another issue which can be avoided by setting them somewhere with fighters close by...
[31/07/09 23:05] *Burns*:spells: (last point)
[31/07/09 23:06] *Burns*:we already heard the community-thing, no need to elaborate there
[31/07/09 23:06] *Burns*:BUT, i have a extremely useful spell up my sleeve: the endless debt-spell *mwahaha*
[31/07/09 23:07] *Burns*:if the dojo crew made some \'punishers\', maybe with the help of vets, on 3 and 4, you can punish the violators with *spoiler deleted* and endless neg VP
[31/07/09 23:08] *Burns*:that\'s kind of easy to accomplish, and i HOPE the dojos are bright enough to not abuse them...
[31/07/09 23:08] *Burns*:as for guys comment, mp5 don\'t need a dojo, but a place where they can get real help, like GoE
[31/07/09 23:08] Guybrush Threepwood:The negative Vp isn\'t as bad sometimes as crushing the hopes and dreams of getting decent critters on a MP3.

[31/07/09 23:09] .Ailith.: *nods to krazedkid*
[31/07/09 23:09] krazedkid101:I agree alot with Burns
[31/07/09 23:10] krazedkid101:But really i see nothing wrong with people idling around at the dojo nothing is hirting people when they do this
[31/07/09 23:10] krazedkid101:and i agree that some of the trainees and stuff are pretty bad
[31/07/09 23:11] krazedkid101:And people i started 2 years ago and i quit do to getting killed every second and i got fustrated
[31/07/09 23:12] krazedkid101:When i started the xp system wasnt very good and there were no LR guards
[31/07/09 23:12] krazedkid101:so i needed a place to train and learn at the same time while getting to know people
[31/07/09 23:13] krazedkid101:and when i came back and saw the Dojo i stayed all day every day learning and meeting while still not dealing with unwanted fights and still fighting when

[31/07/09 23:13] krazedkid101:i c nothing wrong with the dojo now
[31/07/09 23:14] krazedkid101:so u get bashed a few times by hit and runners
[31/07/09 23:14] krazedkid101:that is y u learn to set rits that prevents them from killing all ur creats
[31/07/09 23:14] krazedkid101:On the mp4 and 5 note
[31/07/09 23:15] krazedkid101:mp5s can still go to the dojo and help and regen their creats while doing so
[31/07/09 23:16] krazedkid101:MP5s now twice as much as most dojo trainees and i enjoy them there
[31/07/09 23:16] krazedkid101:With mp4s like me i still learn everyday at the dojo and most mp4s do to
[31/07/09 23:17] krazedkid101:Not all mp4s were extremely good with rits like Unknown Entity was
[31/07/09 23:17] krazedkid101:and i still go to the dojo and help mp3s when they need it
[31/07/09 23:18] krazedkid101:and the dojo is fine it is rite in the middle of everything
[31/07/09 23:18] krazedkid101:So i rest my case with the dojo should stay as it is

[31/07/09 23:19] .Ailith.: *nods to RJ*
[31/07/09 23:20] .SmartAlekRJ.:k first to comment krazed.... you should see some of the messages i got from the dojo when i originally attacked there not knowing it existed.... the rudest

messages i still have ever gotten
[31/07/09 23:20] .SmartAlekRJ.:ruder than when i was raiding mp3\'s (some of you remember that and were victims)
[31/07/09 23:21] .SmartAlekRJ.:the dojo where it is is confusing to newer players, and i wouldn\'t be suprised if newbies were getting those same messages i got
[31/07/09 23:22] .SmartAlekRJ.:that is where a mp3 starts fighting, so the first thing most people will do is... fight
[31/07/09 23:22] .SmartAlekRJ.:change the area based on that observation alone
[31/07/09 23:23] .SmartAlekRJ.:there was something else, but of course i cant scroll up to remember what it was, raising hands is lame
[31/07/09 23:23] .SmartAlekRJ.:i\'m done now lol

[31/07/09 23:24] .Ailith.: *nods to Granos*
[31/07/09 23:26] Granos:It is safe to say that we have established that all mp5s are to be exonerated from the the dojo and that it should be moved, it has little control as it is now yet

we have an example of such a simular
[31/07/09 23:27] Granos:thing working in the GGG, as such I put forth to motion that the dojo should be moved to the isolated area of the plains of deciet and that the the entire

leadership and structure of the dojo staff be
[31/07/09 23:28] Granos:into question, Calyx has not been around to oversee what needs to be done and given the lack of presence here now by the current staff I would have to say

such change is needed, there for I push for
[31/07/09 23:28] Granos:new leadership of the dojo for it to survive

[31/07/09 23:28] .Ailith.: *nods to Zleiphneir*
[31/07/09 23:28] .Zleiphneir.:Alright a couple of things, and I appologise If i repeat anything
[31/07/09 23:29] .Zleiphneir.:firstly, as RJ stated, the staff of the dojo when I was an MP3 were horrific to deal with
[31/07/09 23:29] .Zleiphneir.:and I have to say, they remian so if you dont agree with them
[31/07/09 23:29] .Zleiphneir.:and i find it ...abominable to be honest.
[31/07/09 23:30] .Zleiphneir.:next, the purpose of the dojo seems to be getting a little confused here...
[31/07/09 23:30] .Zleiphneir.:it wasnt originally mean to train people how to make good rits or whatever
[31/07/09 23:30] .Zleiphneir.:it was designed in order for people to be able to sparr
[31/07/09 23:30] .Zleiphneir.:and as such, all MP levels should be allowed to join in or not etc
[31/07/09 23:30] .Zleiphneir.:that being said
[31/07/09 23:31] .Zleiphneir.:as Burns mentionned...
[31/07/09 23:31] .Zleiphneir.:people sitting there, live not idle, and not actually sparring or teacheing or anything...
[31/07/09 23:31] .Zleiphneir.:should be told to leave.
[31/07/09 23:31] .Zleiphneir.:it should not be allowed. period.
[31/07/09 23:31] .Zleiphneir.:and on a final point
[31/07/09 23:31] .Zleiphneir.:Metal Bunny made a very good point on the forum
[31/07/09 23:32] .Zleiphneir.:about RP and the dojo and how you can integrate it and actually make it more exciting
[31/07/09 23:32] .Zleiphneir.:I am rather shocked none of the main Dojo people are here
[31/07/09 23:32] .Zleiphneir.:or even bothered to organise a substitute
[31/07/09 23:32] .Zleiphneir.:and frankly I think that shows the lack of dedication
[31/07/09 23:32] .Zleiphneir.:whether it be for or or its basic structure
[31/07/09 23:32] .Zleiphneir.:but i digress...appologies...
[31/07/09 23:33] .Zleiphneir.:the point was, Metal Bunny made a very good poit which i 100% agree with and believe in
[31/07/09 23:33] .Zleiphneir.:to be a bad guy...to organise a big attack on the dojo would make a great story
[31/07/09 23:33] .Zleiphneir.:so in that sense...it should be allowed and the staff shoul protect it better
[31/07/09 23:33] .Zleiphneir.:if that makes sense.
[31/07/09 23:33] .Zleiphneir.:thank you.

[31/07/09 23:34] .Ailith.: *nods to MIHac*
[31/07/09 23:34] MIHAc:Dojo isn\'t just training ground, it\'s also meeting place. Next to gazebo of equilibrium
[31/07/09 23:34] MIHAc:only one with decent active people i know
[31/07/09 23:35] MIHAc:So don\'t splinter it please. Change location if needed. But it should still exsist.
[31/07/09 23:35] MIHAc:f the game warns new people not to attack there
[31/07/09 23:35] MIHAc:without asking many will comply, but some never will. That\'s why dojo staff should have
[31/07/09 23:35] MIHAc:some powers to stop those. Don\'t know what mp5 and 6 needs as i\'m not that high yet, but
[31/07/09 23:35] MIHAc:i\'m sure some will want it also..those that don\'t can go elsewhere on the map.
[31/07/09 23:35] MIHAc:Anyways it seems like a good idea. Would hate to lose it.

[31/07/09 23:36] .Ailith.: *nods to Guybrush*
[31/07/09 23:37] Guybrush Threepwood:I like the idea that Burns had there about putting it in a sanctuary, and I\'ll start with that.
[31/07/09 23:37] Guybrush Threepwood:Now, if it were in a sanctuary, people COULDN\'T abuse those learning.
[31/07/09 23:38] Guybrush Threepwood:So no worries there. And as he said, to convenient exits to sparr at.
[31/07/09 23:38] Guybrush Threepwood:There\'s a few issues I see so far, and one of them was brought up already.
[31/07/09 23:39] Guybrush Threepwood:As far as RP goes, people can\'t make an attack on the dojo if it\'s in a sanctuary. Not necessarily a big problem, and the other I haven\'t heard

brought up.
[31/07/09 23:40] Guybrush Threepwood:One of the original intents of the dojo, and the reason Mur said ALL Mp levels should be included is that he said aeveryone should have the ability

to safely set their rituals.
[31/07/09 23:40] Guybrush Threepwood:Now I have two suggestions about that.
[31/07/09 23:40] Guybrush Threepwood:One, just teach all the noobs to place *spoiler deleted*
[31/07/09 23:40] Guybrush Threepwood:In the *spoiler deleted* .
[31/07/09 23:41] Guybrush Threepwood:But as that\'s considered a glitch, that\'s probably not acceptable.
[31/07/09 23:41] Guybrush Threepwood:Another possibility that would require no programming changes is to have a DOJO MP2 at each exit.
[31/07/09 23:42] Guybrush Threepwood:The DOJO staff would be in charge of keeping these MP2s (with no creatures) logged in at both exits for people to set rits.
[31/07/09 23:43] Guybrush Threepwood:Now, if it\'s not in a dojo then it can be abused, and it is possible for people to figure out how to avoid the powerful debt spell Burns has.
[31/07/09 23:43] Guybrush Threepwood:*If it\'s not in a sanctuary
[31/07/09 23:44] Guybrush Threepwood:So spells may be nice to have to deter people.
[31/07/09 23:44] Guybrush Threepwood:As far as RP goes, and I mentioned this on the forums, anyone who is rolplaying an attack on the dojo should leave if defeated by the dojo

[31/07/09 23:45] Guybrush Threepwood:But someone who\'s just doing it to be a jerk can\'t be stopped by anything short of spells.
[31/07/09 23:45] Guybrush Threepwood:Now I know it\'s been said it\'s community run and all so if they can\'t do it with the tools they have they shouldn\'t be able to do it.
[31/07/09 23:46] Guybrush Threepwood:But even if 99% of the community aproves, there\'s no way without spells to keep 1 individual from destroying it. That\'s why in RL people have

the right to make citizens arrests, or just call the cops.

[31/07/09 23:47] .Ailith.: *nods to apophys*
[31/07/09 23:49] apophys:I remember being a fresh mp3
[31/07/09 23:50] apophys:I got murdered in the Marble Dale Park within 5 minutes of being released to attacks
[31/07/09 23:51] apophys:since we agree to move the dojo
[31/07/09 23:51] apophys:I say to make the park a sanctuary
[31/07/09 23:52] apophys:other than that, I concur with Granos to move to the plains of deceit

[31/07/09 23:52] .Ailith.: *nods to Sorata*
[31/07/09 23:52] Sorata Arisugawa:There are several points I would like to make%u2026
[31/07/09 23:52] Sorata Arisugawa:First, I must say that I disagree with the idea of making Dojo a sanctuary, for several reasons:
[31/07/09 23:53] Sorata Arisugawa:1) \"Dojo\" is a martial arts school; a martial arts school where students cant practice fighting with each other would make no sense RP-wise.
[31/07/09 23:53] Sorata Arisugawa:2) We already have sanctuaries, in Berserker's Way and here at Fenths Press, and there are barely any active people here.
[31/07/09 23:54] Sorata Arisugawa:Because there is very little to do at sanctuaries beside talking and recovering. Making a key area like Marble Dale Park a sanctuary would do more harm

then good, in my opinion.
[31/07/09 23:55] Sorata Arisugawa:3) In my opinion, a place like Dojo should exist: a place where you can have arranged match without having to worry about unwanted attacks (too

[31/07/09 23:56] Sorata Arisugawa:With that being said, I am fine with the way Dojo is, BUT...
[31/07/09 23:56] Sorata Arisugawa:What I believe we need is some actual power for Dojo Staff and actual punishments for REPEATED Dojo Violators.
[31/07/09 23:57] Sorata Arisugawa:In my opnion attack-ban (i.e. making the violator unable to attack for several hours, or even a day or more) would be a good punishment for repeated

Dojo Violators.
[31/07/09 23:58] Sorata Arisugawa: (Note: by \"repeated\" I mean people who repeatedly attack others in Dojo despite being warned not to by Dojo Staff)
[31/07/09 23:59] Sorata Arisugawa: (And, IBRUZU, I haven\'t seen a single case of any punishment to Dojo Violators, included the case when a guy kept attacking various people in Dojo

despite being warned time and again)
[31/07/09 23:59] Sorata Arisugawa:Anyway, back to what I was saying...
[01/08/09 00:00] Sorata Arisugawa:Yes, attack-ban would get people upset, and probably even make a few leave MD. But...
[01/08/09 00:01] Sorata Arisugawa:Do we really want a comunity of people who only seeks to attack others regardless of their feelings, and ignore the rules?
[01/08/09 00:02] Sorata Arisugawa:These, would be the kind of people who will leave because of attack-bans, I believe.
[01/08/09 00:02] Sorata Arisugawa:People with potential to change for the better will possibly change after seeing the rules actually being enforced.
[01/08/09 00:03] Sorata Arisugawa:Right now, Dojo Violators don\'t really have any reason to change, because they see that Dojo rules are not enforced.
[01/08/09 00:04] Sorata Arisugawa:There are many who just don\'t take Dojo rules seriously, I imagine.
[01/08/09 00:04] Sorata Arisugawa:And that\'s what I believe needs to change about Dojo.
[01/08/09 00:04] Sorata Arisugawa:As Gin-kan once said...
[01/08/09 00:05] Sorata Arisugawa:\"Rightousness without power isn\'t worth much.\"

[01/08/09 00:05] .Ailith.: *nods to Grido*
[01/08/09 00:06] .Grido.:me again, i know you all like my long texts
[01/08/09 00:06] .Grido.:quoting Guy here \'\'But even if 99% of the community aproves, there\'s no way without spells to keep 1 individual from destroying it. \'\'
[01/08/09 00:07] .Grido.:ok, if 1% of the population can bring down99% something is seriously wrong
[01/08/09 00:09] .Grido.:by sheer numbers of force the 99 % would win, cos the 1% would realise they got nowhere and give up
[01/08/09 00:10] STARFOX: (if that were true there would be no criminals)
[01/08/09 00:11] .Grido.:but that\'s breaking the law, and the criminals get punished do they not?
[01/08/09 00:11] .Grido.:if theyre caught that is
[01/08/09 00:11] .Grido.:i will repeat from earlier, this is NOT the law
[01/08/09 00:11] Guybrush Threepwood: (How would anyone in this realm stop me without spells if I hopped on an alt and destroyed EVERY rit at the GGG? You couldn\'t hurt me.)
[01/08/09 00:12] .Grido.:GGG hasnt requested spells, i do not know how they work, but they manage it without needing, or wanting a ban spell
[01/08/09 00:12] .Grido.: (that i know of)
[01/08/09 00:13] .Grido.:person before me, sorry cant remember your name, MDP wont be made into a sanc, dont believe that was suggested, just that it got moved TO a sanc
[01/08/09 00:14] .Grido.:besides, ridiculously annoying to implement
[01/08/09 00:14] .Grido.:and would make it a game feature, which again, wont happen, community project, not game thing
[01/08/09 00:15] .Grido.:So just to sort of summarised the \'\'agreed\'\' points, cos Ib is after me and he might want to speak on them
[01/08/09 00:15] .Grido.:Dojo should be moved somewhere, perhaps a Sanc
[01/08/09 00:16] .Grido.:Ban spell should be replaced with some sort of long-term attacklock spell
[01/08/09 00:16] .Grido.:Dojo should not apply to MP5\'s
[01/08/09 00:17] .Grido.:i cant think of any other things that were \'\'agreed\'\' on, so i\'ll pass over to Ib
[01/08/09 00:18] apophys:Grido, I suggested the MDP be made sanc when the dojo moves away. That was pretty much my only input.

[01/08/09 00:18] :.Ailith. nods to Ibruzu
[01/08/09 00:18] *IBRUZU*:First issue. Dojo can\'t be in a sanctuary or people can\'t train
[01/08/09 00:19] *IBRUZU*:We have the free to attack list for mp5\'s in the dojo now. if you don\'t want safety sign up for the list
[01/08/09 00:20] *IBRUZU*:Training is important to become a strong player in this game..Who here hasn\'t traded wins to upgrade a critter
[01/08/09 00:21] *IBRUZU*:New mp3\'s are the main offenders of the dojo and once they learn the rules most stop thier attacks
[01/08/09 00:22] *IBRUZU*:The dojo has helped many players in this game and the idea that we doon\'t need it is foolish to me
[01/08/09 00:23] *IBRUZU*:the biggest problem with repeat offenders is staffing. A few of us try to police a world that runs 24 hours a day
[01/08/09 00:24] *IBRUZU*:If you have a problem and want it to stop..sign up to help.
[01/08/09 00:24] *IBRUZU*:we will train you and teach those that show commitment
[01/08/09 00:25] *IBRUZU*:we need the help!
[01/08/09 00:25] *IBRUZU*:some of us have spells to stop repeat offenders
[01/08/09 00:26] *IBRUZU*:the best way I have found to stop violaters is a gentle p.m. informing people of the rules . Most do not know
[01/08/09 00:27] *IBRUZU*:Many newb\'s don\'t read mail or read chat..you have to keep that in mind also
[01/08/09 00:28] *IBRUZU*:if the dojo hasn\'t helped you at some point in this game then feel free to try to take it down. But it works for most and we do the best we can in a thankless

[01/08/09 00:28] *IBRUZU*:I\'m done i guess.. lol Next!

[01/08/09 00:28] .Ailith.: *nods to Guybrush*
[01/08/09 00:29] Guybrush Threepwood:Oh well, sorry.
[01/08/09 00:29] Guybrush Threepwood:My point was that 1% can in fact cause a great deal of issue without spells.
[01/08/09 00:30] Guybrush Threepwood:Did that go through?
[01/08/09 00:30] Guybrush Threepwood:Strange, anywho IaB proved my point relatively well. I think.
[Insert - previous to this 'I am Bored' was spamming and was silenced several times, I deleted for fluidity]

[01/08/09 00:30] .Ailith.: *nods to Sorata*
[01/08/09 00:31] Sorata Arisugawa:Like I said earlier and IBRUZU supported, Dojo shouldn%u2019t be made into a sanctuary; turning it into a sanctuary would destroy the point of Dojo

(beside creating RP inconsistancy) .
[01/08/09 00:31] Sorata Arisugawa:But I must say, being gentle with violators doesn\'t always help; often, but not always.
[01/08/09 00:31] Sorata Arisugawa:And I believe that to deal with repeated violators Dojo Staff should be able to deal actual punishments, like attack-ban that I suggested..
[01/08/09 00:32] Sorata Arisugawa: (which would also prevent violator from keeping attacking for a time, and give him time to re-think his actions)
[01/08/09 00:32] *Burns*: (do you think any punishment would keep people from violating? take a look at bored, he was banend countless times XD)
[01/08/09 00:32] *IBRUZU*:we have that sorata! ( sorry to butt in)
[01/08/09 00:33] Sorata Arisugawa:Yes, Burns, if attack-ban\'s time is increased with each successive violation, the person will eventually either get the point or quit.
[01/08/09 00:34] Sorata Arisugawa:And in my opinion, if the person don\'t care that he creates difficulties for others (or, like some do, actually ENJOYS abusing others)
[01/08/09 00:34] Sorata Arisugawa:The community would be better off without him.
[01/08/09 00:35] Sorata Arisugawa:And like it was said, 1% CAN harm 99%, if those 99% can\'t do anything about 1%.
[01/08/09 00:36] Sorata Arisugawa:That is why I believe that Dojo Staff should be able to deal actual punishments, not just warnings.

[01/08/09 00:36] .Ailith.: *nods to Guybrush*
[01/08/09 00:36] Guybrush Threepwood:Thanks, sorry about before.
[01/08/09 00:37] Guybrush Threepwood:Anywho, I was gonna suggest attempting to get IaB to stop interupting without using silence or threatening ban, but that was simply for people

who were suggesting the dojo staff should not have any
[01/08/09 00:38] Guybrush Threepwood:spells. As for the MOVING it to a sanctuary, specifically this one, here are the complaints I\'ve heard.
[01/08/09 00:38] Guybrush Threepwood:No one is ever at a sancutary: Move the dojo to a sanctuary, active players will move there.
[01/08/09 00:38] Guybrush Threepwood:You can\'t fight in one: Like burns said, use your 2 Ap to move in and out.
[01/08/09 00:39] Guybrush Threepwood:Once you\'re done leanring how to set rits and what rits to try, step outside and try it.
[01/08/09 00:39] Guybrush Threepwood:Makes no RP sense, dojos are a place of sparring.
[01/08/09 00:39] Guybrush Threepwood:Fine, if we\'re gonna get caught up in semantics, don\'t move the dojo to Fenth\'s Press.
[01/08/09 00:40] Guybrush Threepwood:Lets move it to Fenths Press/meeting of roads/ whatever the place to the right is.
[01/08/09 00:40] Guybrush Threepwood:Think of Fenth\'s press as the lecture room, and the other two as the sparring room.
[01/08/09 00:41] Guybrush Threepwood:As for the not being able to attack the dojo for RP reasons, it doesn\'t make any less sense than not being able to try and attack everyone in the

Wind and Rain pub and burn it down. You could still
[01/08/09 00:41] Guybrush Threepwood:Try to take over the two training areas.
[01/08/09 00:42] Guybrush Threepwood:And, if it\'s ok, could I ask what the other criticisms were?
[01/08/09 00:42] Guybrush Threepwood:Or perhaps I should just end there since I don\'t recall...

[01/08/09 00:42] .Ailith.: *nods to Gremlin*
[01/08/09 00:43] Gremlin:before I start I want to say a couple things...one sorry for the interuption
[01/08/09 00:43] Gremlin:2. skip the tag during this conversation...yes I am a dojo staff but I dont not speak on that behalf I speak on my own as a person who ahs trained and learned

from the dojo
[01/08/09 00:44] Gremlin:I find this debate compleatly futile on every level. To me it seems like something to do when people run out of ideas
[01/08/09 00:44] Gremlin:The dojo operates and is only as functional as the people who follow the rules and bide by them
[01/08/09 00:45] Gremlin:I mean come on how hard is it to say....excuse me so and so may I gain a win from you or hey so and so can I try this ritual out
[01/08/09 00:46] Gremlin:and those who dont want to be asked constantly \"can i get a win or try this tirual out\" can set up trees as a def...thats their purpose after all
[01/08/09 00:46] Gremlin:that any setting regen rits, which i still dont understand how that works.
[01/08/09 00:47] Gremlin:anyways the dojo in my opinion as a person who trained there is fine the way it is...we ahve deadicated staff memebers on duty who take turns watching the

dojo or atleast should....and those that dont
[01/08/09 00:48] Gremlin:bide by the rules well how hard is it to attack those idle and leave the active people alone...its really not that difficult cause you can find wins and exp ells

where besides there....just LOOK

[01/08/09 00:49] .Ailith.: *nods to Z*
[01/08/09 00:49] .Zleiphneir.:one of my main issues with this...dojo...
[01/08/09 00:49] .Zleiphneir.:is and has always been this precise attitude.
[01/08/09 00:50] .Zleiphneir.:Sorata, Gremlin...etc etc etc
[01/08/09 00:50] .Zleiphneir.:I really think you should try to understand that not everyone agrees or even likes the dojo
[01/08/09 00:50] .Zleiphneir.:and saying how hard is it to do something is all well and good but the fact is THEY DONT WANT TO
[01/08/09 00:50] .Zleiphneir.:and they dont have to.
[01/08/09 00:50] .Zleiphneir.:that doesnt make them a bad person.
[01/08/09 00:51] .Zleiphneir.:next...
[01/08/09 00:51] .Zleiphneir.:we are now suggesting dojo be not one but THREE areas???
[01/08/09 00:51] .Zleiphneir.:two of which we are asked not to attack in and one of which is a sanct??
[01/08/09 00:52] .Zleiphneir.:I dont agree with that.
[01/08/09 00:52] .Zleiphneir.:and as for the dojo being a place of community chatter
[01/08/09 00:52] .Zleiphneir.:you have sanctuaries for that
[01/08/09 00:52] *Burns*: (sorry, but: I defintely don\'t wna tht sparring areas to be non-attacks, they have the sanc for idling...)
[01/08/09 00:52] .Zleiphneir.:the whole point of the dojo is for SPARRING
[01/08/09 00:52] .Zleiphneir.:and learning
[01/08/09 00:53] .Zleiphneir.:NOT idle chatter and frankly hiding from attacks
[01/08/09 00:53] .Zleiphneir.:in a place where you can yell for mummy when you get attacked when you are doing nothing.
[01/08/09 00:53] .Zleiphneir.:alright im done for the moment.

[01/08/09 00:54] .Ailith.: *nods to Jester*
[01/08/09 00:54] Jester:Does anyone else find it strange that the people who talk about the dojo being good for training
[01/08/09 00:54] Jester:are much weaker than those who don\'t like it?
[01/08/09 00:54] Jester:and the least qualified to say what is good for training
[01/08/09 00:55] Jester:just throwing that out there.

[01/08/09 00:55] .Ailith.: *nods to Guybrush*
[01/08/09 00:55] Guybrush Threepwood:I\'d like to point out that this location IS a sanctuary.
[01/08/09 00:56] Guybrush Threepwood:Moving the Dojo to this local would do nothing except having this spot become an area where people can learn about rituals.
[01/08/09 00:57] Guybrush Threepwood:So, were we to ask these to places to be non-attack (Points north and east, not saying we should)
[01/08/09 00:57] Guybrush Threepwood:We would be asking for ONE additional area.
[01/08/09 00:58] Guybrush Threepwood:Currently, there are three dojos if I remember correctly... One at the Oak Fort (Rarely used) and one at the road of battles (never seen anyone

there) .
[01/08/09 00:58] Guybrush Threepwood:So technically, asking for these areas would cut down on such locals.
[01/08/09 00:58] Guybrush Threepwood:And as to a dojo being a place of sparing, you\'re correct.
[01/08/09 00:59] Guybrush Threepwood:However a place of sparring is where two people work together to train.
[01/08/09 00:59] Guybrush Threepwood:A dojo is not a place where you stand in the middle of a field and wait for someone to try and wack you upside the head.
[01/08/09 00:59] Guybrush Threepwood:So if we are comparing this to a RL dojo, then yes, attack should be ask only.
[01/08/09 01:00] Guybrush Threepwood:That having been said, I really don\'t care if it is or not. People won\'t spend much time out their training, just step out, battle, back in.
[01/08/09 01:00] Guybrush Threepwood:So no attack there isn\'t really a big deal.
[01/08/09 01:00] Guybrush Threepwood:As for people saying the dojo is useful, but them being weak, fine, whatever.
[01/08/09 01:01] Guybrush Threepwood:But one of the original ideas is to have a safe local to set rituals, though not necessarily learn about them.
[01/08/09 01:01] Guybrush Threepwood:As far as actual TRAINING goes, it\'s useless, the GGG does everything and more.
[01/08/09 01:02] Guybrush Threepwood:I for one learned about need 301 Ve in a rit there, and other simple things that WERE useful.
[01/08/09 01:02] Guybrush Threepwood:Sure, the people who taught me knew next to nothing about complex fighting and real strategy, but they at least knew the basics.
[01/08/09 01:02] Guybrush Threepwood:A lot of which can be found in FAQs or other hidden spots in the game.
[01/08/09 01:03] Guybrush Threepwood: (and a lot of that\'s wrong anyway)
[01/08/09 01:03] Guybrush Threepwood:Anywho, I guess I\'ve mostly seen the dojo as a place for learning how to fight and a safe place to set rituals, not a training ground.
[01/08/09 01:03] Guybrush Threepwood:For both those things the Fenth\'s press is a great choice.
[01/08/09 01:04] Guybrush Threepwood:It\'s 2 Ap away from people who know what they\'re talking about, and the MP2s outside (easy to do, heck, I\'ll do it for you) would allow for

mostly safe rit setting.

[01/08/09 01:04] .Ailith.: *nods to Burns*
[01/08/09 01:06] *Burns*:we heard Grem and Ib about how the dojo is kewl the way it is, but:
[01/08/09 01:06] *Burns*:how comes the dojo-list of offenders is full?
[01/08/09 01:06] *Burns*:how come that so many people don\'t want to participate in the idea?
[01/08/09 01:07] *Burns*:here\'s why: you can gain more by ignoring the rules
[01/08/09 01:08] *Burns*:all the veterans who know ALL the stuff will or won\'t teach you according to their mood, not according to whether you are in dojo or not
[01/08/09 01:08] *Burns*:this is why the place NEEDS to be a sanc to work for everybody
[01/08/09 01:09] *Burns*:of course you also need a sparringplace, but that doesn\'t need to be a non-attack area at all
[01/08/09 01:09] *Burns*:you can set dummies for every mp if you want easy rit-setting in any place, no troubles there
[01/08/09 01:10] *Burns*:and you can avoid the usual \'oh no, i just idled here for 4 hours to work on my papers and was attacked 2 times\' by either throwing those idlers out or being in

a sanc
[01/08/09 01:11] *Burns*:80% of the repeated offenders ignore the dojo becasue it\'s a pointless thing for them...
[01/08/09 01:12] *Burns*:can i ask Ibruzu to speak in dialogue? i guess that would ease things...
[01/08/09 01:12] *Burns*:anyway, that would be all i\'d like to say so far... if my request is turned down ^^
[01/08/09 01:13] *Burns*:objections, Ib?
[01/08/09 01:13] *IBRUZU*:First. Again the dojo is for the lower mp levels
[01/08/09 01:14] *IBRUZU*:and the staff assigned is there to answer the basic questions
[01/08/09 01:14] Jester: (then why was Bloodprince banned instead of an MP3?)
[01/08/09 01:14] *IBRUZU*:if they don\'t answer they are not doing thier job
[01/08/09 01:15] *IBRUZU*:we want to give people a chance at getting thier act together and finding the fun this game has to offer
[01/08/09 01:15] *Burns*:which would be the same in a sanc...
[01/08/09 01:16] *IBRUZU*:blood prince was warned over and over
[01/08/09 01:16] *IBRUZU*:True
[01/08/09 01:16] Guybrush Threepwood: (Blood Prince was attacking MP3s?)
[01/08/09 01:17] *IBRUZU*:buthe was attacking anyone he could and was warned repeatedly
[01/08/09 01:17] *Burns*:which would have been impossible if the dojo was in a sanctuary...
[01/08/09 01:17] *IBRUZU*:New mp4\'s need training also
[01/08/09 01:18] *Burns*:and yes, princ has no honor at all, he tackeld the poor allies of dojo ;)
[01/08/09 01:18] *IBRUZU*:and there are mp 3\'s out there with millions in creature xp
[01/08/09 01:18] *IBRUZU*: (that should be addressed)
[01/08/09 01:19] *IBRUZU*:I have no problem with the sanctuary idea per se
[01/08/09 01:20] *IBRUZU*:but I see no reason to ask for people to learn to respect the game as others have in the past
[01/08/09 01:20] *Burns*:well, the dojo staff is in lack of players, specially players who can handle conflicts
[01/08/09 01:20] *IBRUZU*:Mur made the dojo part of the game..He believes or at least belived in it..Enough said
[01/08/09 01:21] *Burns*:as several messages prove, every day
[01/08/09 01:21] *IBRUZU*:I know! we\'re understaffed!
[01/08/09 01:21] *IBRUZU*:We need help

[01/08/09 01:22] :.Ailith. nods to Granos
[01/08/09 01:23] Granos:ok well the reason why we are here is to discuss the fate of the dojo because they have failed.. not why they are great and \"working\"
[01/08/09 01:24] Granos:the staff them selves are completly disoraginized and are seldom there, andcouldnt even organize anyone to be here properly fot this debate, what does that

[01/08/09 01:24] Granos:using Mur as a final word
[01/08/09 01:25] Granos:it is a social function in md, Mur only has given it support because of key people earing that on thier own not all of the dojo, the fact that a MP5 was banned for

breaking rules of a petty little soc
[01/08/09 01:25] Granos:is deplorable
[01/08/09 01:26] Granos:the dojo as they keep stating is for newbs lower mp levels, and they were given thier spells just to use as a bluff never actually intended for rela use, but what

they did was use it on a player
[01/08/09 01:27] Granos:if anything the dojo staff should be banned for abusing power in this case, as it seems they are the only ones to have broken the rules of MD
[01/08/09 01:28] Granos:now as for moving it to a sanctuary, well that defeats the point of having the dojo all togeather, you might as well pile everyone into winds as they can learn

about fighint alot better there then
[01/08/09 01:28] Granos:from the dojo
[01/08/09 01:29] Granos:If you are going to have the dojo remain part of the society , make it so they fuction as inteneded not as some nazi police force
[01/08/09 01:29] Granos:otherwise get rid of it
[01/08/09 01:29] *IBRUZU*:Ban from the dojo staff should only be for 3 days max!! not permanant

[01/08/09 01:30] .Ailith.: *nods to Grido*
[01/08/09 01:30] .Grido.:kinda old points, as in mentioned ages ago now
[01/08/09 01:31] .Grido.:someone was under the misconception of where the Dojo\'s were
[01/08/09 01:31] .Grido.:the ONLY official Dojo locations, as outlined in the Changelog
[01/08/09 01:32] .Grido.:are outside Defensive quarters, and at MDP, nowhere else
[01/08/09 01:32] .Grido.:not that i see anything happen at the first loca, but nevermind
[01/08/09 01:33] .Grido.:Mur\'s suggestion was for advanced things to happen there, said as a suggestion, if it isn\'t a Dojo, state such so that it can be clear
[01/08/09 01:34] .Grido.:i sort of repeat this point from before, i say that Dojo locations should not be for MP5 at all, Ib says if you want to get attacked then tell them, so fine
[01/08/09 01:35] .Grido.:but MP5\'s on that list can be attacked there, so attack others also or something, imumble words and explanations, i\'m getting tired
[01/08/09 01:36] .Grido.:i cant recall who suggested this on the forum that they did it, but how about a responce time? that *might* help reduce hit and run reports
[01/08/09 01:37] .Grido.:so if i went along and said \'\'anyone who isn\'t alright with me attacking them now tell me in the next 60 seconds\'\' or something and they didnt respond, they

count as idle and i can attack
[01/08/09 01:37] .Grido.:not that i ever actually use the Dojo, i just wanted an example
[01/08/09 01:37] .Grido.:Ib, you keep interupting others.....
[01/08/09 01:38] .Grido.:the systme in place, that i\'m aware of, unless it\'s been updated
[01/08/09 01:38] .Grido.:is that if someone appears as idle, then you can attack
[01/08/09 01:39] .Grido.:i say that if they dont respond in chat after a minute, then they aren;t really there, and are just idling
[01/08/09 01:39] .Grido.:idling isnt what the Dojo is for
[01/08/09 01:39] .Grido.:so they\'re fair game
[01/08/09 01:40] .Grido.:not that i have a particular interest in the Dojo being moved to a sanc specificly, if it was, someone made the counter that there wasnt anywhere to set rits,

there is, GGG would allow it.......
[01/08/09 01:40] .Grido.:.....i would assume
[01/08/09 01:41] .Grido.:as long as no actual damaging attack takes place
[01/08/09 01:41] MRG:IT WOULD
[01/08/09 01:41] .Grido.:well there you go
[01/08/09 01:41] .Grido.:and i\'m done for now

[01/08/09 01:41] :.Ailith. nods to Ibruzu
[01/08/09 01:43] *IBRUZU*:If a person gets up to go to the rest room or get a drink they are fair game with the 1 minute rule. Thats what idle is for
[01/08/09 01:44] *IBRUZU*:My last comment..
[01/08/09 01:46] .Grido.: (fine 2/3/4/5 miutes, but saying wait till idle, someone could remain unidle for hours without really being there)
[01/08/09 01:47] Ectremere:just wanted to point out that a one minute rule is completely pointless. I know from personal experience multiple times that its extremely easy to go idle just

dont change a window for 7-10 minutes re
[01/08/09 01:47] Ectremere:really
[01/08/09 01:48] Ectremere:so if they really are idle youll see it quite quickly and if they arent but are just not in a speaking mood or whatever why do you have to punish them for it by

painting a giant cross hair on them?
[01/08/09 01:48] .Grido.: (sorry in advance) you dont change the window of MD and dont pay attention to the chat in a location meant for training? if you\'re doing papers or checking

messages, go to a sanc
[01/08/09 01:49] .Grido.:the Dojo is for being a Dojo....not somewhere to sit and ponder the mysteries of life
[01/08/09 01:49] Ectremere:so you must run with your tail between your legs each and every time you might possibly be preoccupied with something?

[01/08/09 01:51] :.Ailith. nods to Guybrush
[01/08/09 01:51] Guybrush Threepwood:\" so you must run with your tail between your legs each and every time you might possibly be preoccupied with something?\"
[01/08/09 01:52] Guybrush Threepwood:At least you\'d get more excersise than sitting on your tail in the dojo.
[01/08/09 01:52] Guybrush Threepwood:If you\'re not training, you\'re not using the dojo, you shouldn\'t be protected.
[01/08/09 01:52] Guybrush Threepwood:If you\'re purpose is having a place to stay without being attacked, then yes, you are hiding.
[01/08/09 01:53] Guybrush Threepwood:Places for that are hard coded, no need to get a community initiative to make more.
[01/08/09 01:53] Guybrush Threepwood:On the other hand it\'d be annoying to have someone walk in, say, who doesn\'t want to be attacked.
[01/08/09 01:53] Guybrush Threepwood:Leave me alone.
[01/08/09 01:53] Guybrush Threepwood:don\'t.
[01/08/09 01:53] Guybrush Threepwood:I\'m not set.
[01/08/09 01:53] Guybrush Threepwood:This is a dojo.
[01/08/09 01:53] Guybrush Threepwood:Blah.
[01/08/09 01:53] Guybrush Threepwood:Every time a new person walked in.
[01/08/09 01:53] Guybrush Threepwood:Anywho, not my main point.
[01/08/09 01:54] Guybrush Threepwood:Would it be ok if I had a Q and A with Ibruzu?
[01/08/09 01:54] Guybrush Threepwood:I would like to lead this to a logical conclusion.
[01/08/09 01:55] Guybrush Threepwood:Not implying that I and Ibruzu are the people for that, I just want to gather the points already made.
[01/08/09 01:55] Guybrush Threepwood:What is the purpose of the dojo?
[01/08/09 01:56] *IBRUZU*:To train the younger players with the basics of the game
[01/08/09 01:56] Guybrush Threepwood:Ok, any other purposes?
[01/08/09 01:56] Guybrush Threepwood:Anyone else think that that\'s not an appropriate explanation?
[01/08/09 01:57] Guybrush Threepwood:I\'m not making this a trial, I\'m just trying to come to the points everyone agrees on.
[01/08/09 01:57] *IBRUZU*:what more is needed? If new plyers do not have a chance to grow stronger and learn they will not stay in game and MD dies
[01/08/09 01:58] Guybrush Threepwood:Ok, teach newer players. Sounds good to me, I agree.
[01/08/09 01:58] .Grido.:LHO\'s are there to help players with the basics of the game, not Dojo
[01/08/09 01:58] Guybrush Threepwood:Specifically teach them about fighting Grido.
[01/08/09 01:59] Guybrush Threepwood:Anywho, is there anything about the purpose of the dojo that can\'t be done at THIS location?
[01/08/09 01:59] *Burns*: (ever wondered why almsot all LHO have a heads medal? ;) )
[01/08/09 01:59] *IBRUZU*:Not really. We take the weight off the LHO\'s
[01/08/09 01:59] *IBRUZU*:we answer the mundane ??\'s so LHO\'s don\'t hav to
[01/08/09 02:00] Jester:no, random veterans answer the questions...
[01/08/09 02:01] Guybrush Threepwood:I mean, for the purpose of teaching this place is great.
[01/08/09 02:01] Guybrush Threepwood:People can heal, the GoE with knowledgeable people are close by.
[01/08/09 02:01] Guybrush Threepwood:There\'s an altar.
[01/08/09 02:01] Guybrush Threepwood:It\'s central.
[01/08/09 02:01] Guybrush Threepwood:And just step out to test things.
[01/08/09 02:02] *IBRUZU*:you assume that random people will answer the newb\'s questions.
[01/08/09 02:02] Guybrush Threepwood:No, I\'m saying move the staff HERE.
[01/08/09 02:02] Guybrush Threepwood:Keep the staff, move them here.
[01/08/09 02:02] *IBRUZU*:My staff answers the basic questions for newb\'s
[01/08/09 02:02] Guybrush Threepwood:Or get new staff, whatever.
[01/08/09 02:03] Guybrush Threepwood:Why can\'t they do it here?
[01/08/09 02:03] *IBRUZU*:that frees up LHO\'s for the more serious questions
[01/08/09 02:03] .Grido.:LHO\'s answer all questions, that\'s part of their job....
[01/08/09 02:03] Guybrush Threepwood:Fine, here\'s my summary.
[01/08/09 02:04] Guybrush Threepwood:Someone said we may as well all cram into Wind\'s.
[01/08/09 02:04] *IBRUZU*:I have no real issue with the move here. My point is why when we have been in the same spot for 9 months
[01/08/09 02:04] Guybrush Threepwood:Because this spot clearly isn\'t working.
[01/08/09 02:04] Guybrush Threepwood:And being somewhere a long time doesn\'t make it a good idea, it\'s for new players.
[01/08/09 02:05] Guybrush Threepwood:YOu don\'t need to worry that vets are used to it being in MDP.
[01/08/09 02:05] Guybrush Threepwood:This would solve the newbs being frustrated by attacks.
[01/08/09 02:05] *IBRUZU*:But I teach regular people to answer the basic questions about how to set a rit... How many times dowes an LHO want to answer that a day
[01/08/09 02:05] Guybrush Threepwood:We could move to Wind\'s except it\'s already a pub, and not ideally located.
[01/08/09 02:06] Guybrush Threepwood:If you have to change the name since people are stuck with the semantics of a dojo being in a sanctuary, FINE!
[01/08/09 02:06] Guybrush Threepwood:The point of this place is to teach, and keep newbs safe.
[01/08/09 02:06] *IBRUZU*:I thought we were still in Q and A sorry
[01/08/09 02:06] Guybrush Threepwood:Sanctuaries are safe, you can teach newbs ANYWHERE.
[01/08/09 02:06] Guybrush Threepwood:We were in Q and A till you started responding entirely to Grido...
[01/08/09 02:07] Guybrush Threepwood:Anywho, I\'m done. I jsut think we have a possible solution.
[01/08/09 02:07] Guybrush Threepwood:So we should focus on it.
[01/08/09 02:07] *IBRUZU*:Sorry Guy

[01/08/09 02:07] .Ailith.:Grido.. quickly about LHO
[01/08/09 02:08] .Grido.:ok, LHO\'s are there to assist players with whatever questions they have
[01/08/09 02:08] .Grido.:if they cant answer them than they explain so, but as Burns stated most are HC placed, so being asked about fighting basics wouldnt be an issue
[01/08/09 02:08] .Grido.:they answer questions put to them about the game
[01/08/09 02:09] .Grido.:they help where they can

[01/08/09 02:09] :.Ailith. nods to Bunny
[01/08/09 02:09] .Metal Bunny.:first off, let me say this in quick defense of lho staff...
[01/08/09 02:09] .Metal Bunny.:they do answer the simple questions
[01/08/09 02:09] .Metal Bunny.:an old lho, .jonn. once had to answer a live help pm
[01/08/09 02:09] .Metal Bunny.:its content being: how do I start the game?
[01/08/09 02:10] .Metal Bunny.:you may laugh or disbelief but teaching people rituals, that\'s not basic
[01/08/09 02:10] .Metal Bunny.:secondly
[01/08/09 02:10] .Metal Bunny.:I know this is a public debate
[01/08/09 02:10] .Metal Bunny.:and I know people have not had the privilege and fun of learning debate 101
[01/08/09 02:10] .Metal Bunny.:but interupting people
[01/08/09 02:10] .Metal Bunny.:is disrespectful
[01/08/09 02:10] .Metal Bunny.:and destructive to the debate
[01/08/09 02:11] .Metal Bunny.:in other words, wait your turn, like me, give multiple points and stop being a twat
[01/08/09 02:11] .Metal Bunny.:thirdly: stop repeating yourself, I have been here for an hour and I saw 2 topics go by
[01/08/09 02:11] .Metal Bunny.:that is sad beyond belief, make this debate more productive
[01/08/09 02:11] .Metal Bunny.:fourth: The dojo had to ban a player
[01/08/09 02:11] .Metal Bunny.:why?
[01/08/09 02:11] .Metal Bunny.:because you lack respect
[01/08/09 02:11] .Metal Bunny.:if you violated GGG
[01/08/09 02:12] .Metal Bunny.:trust me, MRD would have owned your ass
[01/08/09 02:12] .Metal Bunny.:dojo lacks a champion
[01/08/09 02:12] .Metal Bunny.:and only has moral support of mur
[01/08/09 02:12] .Metal Bunny.:which IMO got abused
[01/08/09 02:12] .Metal Bunny.:fifth and here I want to go into a new direction
[01/08/09 02:12] .Metal Bunny.:why not just let the entire system be?
[01/08/09 02:13] .Metal Bunny.:and let there be an opportunity for villains to roleplay
[01/08/09 02:13] .Metal Bunny.:I have not seen good villanious roleplay, except by dst
[01/08/09 02:13] .Metal Bunny.:and not everyone is a bug finder
[01/08/09 02:13] .Metal Bunny.:why cant there be villains?
[01/08/09 02:13] .Metal Bunny.:as a matter of fact
[01/08/09 02:13] .Metal Bunny.:I believe
[01/08/09 02:13] .Metal Bunny.:and this is my own opinion
[01/08/09 02:13] .Metal Bunny.:if you have villains, then there will rise to the call; champions
[01/08/09 02:14] .Metal Bunny.:people who actively hunt that way too large list of dojo offenders
[01/08/09 02:14] .Metal Bunny.:people who with heart and soul wish to help the dojo
[01/08/09 02:14] .Metal Bunny.:instead I see people teach, who are in my opinion not even worthy teachers
[01/08/09 02:14] .Metal Bunny.:and they cry and moan, and act only passively against offenders
[01/08/09 02:14] .Metal Bunny.:and then suddenly snap and cross the line
[01/08/09 02:14] .Metal Bunny.:and ban
[01/08/09 02:15] .Metal Bunny.:this shouldn\'t be
[01/08/09 02:15] .Metal Bunny.:the dojo is a community, a very weak institute
[01/08/09 02:15] .Metal Bunny.:I believe the problem lies within the dojo and it\'s sheer inability to protect itself
[01/08/09 02:15] .Metal Bunny.:if it could chase and \'\'destroy\'\' the villains
[01/08/09 02:15] .Metal Bunny.:you would have an entirely new level of roleplay
[01/08/09 02:15] .Metal Bunny.:a proper dojo
[01/08/09 02:15] .Metal Bunny.:and no more bans

[01/08/09 02:16] :.Ailith. nods to Daemon
[01/08/09 02:16] Daemon Torvez:Thank you
[01/08/09 02:16] Daemon Torvez:Nice job Metal Bunny. A lot of what I have to say will concur with Metal Bunny.
[01/08/09 02:17] Daemon Torvez:I'm newer here, run only this account and have tried out maybe 1 or 2 others but then I wanted to see what MP2 was about. I'm an educated adult and

have enjoyed MD so far especially the art it has in
[01/08/09 02:18] Daemon Torvez:it. Maybe I can offer a good perspective for you. On the Dojo's I have taken advantage of them and will continue to use them as they are allowed under

the current game system which I like how open Mur
[01/08/09 02:18] Daemon Torvez:has created it.
[01/08/09 02:18] Daemon Torvez:But I don\'t like them.
[01/08/09 02:18] Daemon Torvez:I see the Dojos as a way to help players new to any MP level as there is defiantly a learning curve at each one.
[01/08/09 02:19] Daemon Torvez:Sadly I have seen them work as a grinding mechanism for getting easy wins and exp.
[01/08/09 02:19] Daemon Torvez:Yes I have taken advantage of this as I said, but I'd rather MD work differently as itd be more fun.
[01/08/09 02:19] Daemon Torvez:I think the DoJo staff should be better organized and keep track of who is new and not new and block the older ones from using the area, hard to do

with everyone running alts.
[01/08/09 02:20] Daemon Torvez:They should use their spells and abilities they earn to control the crowd, which would support and build more on the RP side of MD.
[01/08/09 02:20] Daemon Torvez:I truly only like the DoJos as they give MD a place for some RP. People can hang out in them, talk and RP training.
[01/08/09 02:20] Daemon Torvez:Although I always look out for other places to hang out at. However with the DoJos they ultimately provide a place for grinding.
[01/08/09 02:21] Daemon Torvez:Why have a whole world to play in when 90% of everyone stays in the DoJos and or drops their alts off in idle mode,
[01/08/09 02:21] Daemon Torvez:its like a daycare center for alts every day but its currently allowed under this system.
[01/08/09 02:22] Daemon Torvez:Honestly I have found myself very board with MD at times because of the DoJos.
[01/08/09 02:22] Daemon Torvez:They make it seem like there is no reason to go anywhere else in MD except when redoing the story line quests at the next MP level.
[01/08/09 02:22] Daemon Torvez:There should not be a need for DoJos experienced players should help new players anywhere,
[01/08/09 02:23] Daemon Torvez:but if it helps to have them for that purpose than keep them but the staff better get the abilities and coordination needed to control them and make

sure they run right.
[01/08/09 02:23] Daemon Torvez:It would be nice to see alliances play more of a part in running them and alliance wars occur if to many players from one side violate rules of another but
[01/08/09 02:24] Daemon Torvez:I know that is getting off topic but I wish there was more action and RP conflict in MD not just people winning about being attack in a DoJo with out

being asked.
[01/08/09 02:24] Daemon Torvez:. I have lost count of how many times that has happened to me. And for idle players an entire alliance could take down a whole players lot of creatures

and make them pointless to be idle.
[01/08/09 02:24] Daemon Torvez:But that would require more team work and RPing.
[01/08/09 02:25] Daemon Torvez:Finally, I think Dojo's should only be used for initial training of actual new players to all of the MP levels and that it's up to the staff to make that

[01/08/09 02:25] Daemon Torvez:This gives them the ability to actually be active members in MD and not just bench warmers with titles.
[01/08/09 02:25] Daemon Torvez:Its a lot of hard work but helping run a community always is.
[01/08/09 02:26] Daemon Torvez:If they fail too then Mur has stated many times that MD has many secrets and that most anything goes as long as you don't break HIS rules.
[01/08/09 02:26] Daemon Torvez:And I agree, if a person is idle they are open to attack, no time limit, if your idle that is not playing that is leaving your alt out for what ever purpose.
[01/08/09 02:26] Daemon Torvez:People should go to a sanctuary to do papers etc. duh
[01/08/09 02:27] Daemon Torvez:As for people hanging out in DoJos Mur has given people spells, the ability to form alliances and groups,
[01/08/09 02:27] Daemon Torvez:use them and police the DoJos better or quit whining that people are hanging out in them and let it happen.
[01/08/09 02:27] Daemon Torvez:I dont mean to offend anyone and yes I'm still newer but people whine way to much around MD when its clear to me
[01/08/09 02:28] Daemon Torvez:that Mur has set up a lot of features for people to use but they don't.
[01/08/09 02:28] Daemon Torvez:And yeah I know staying idle helps MDs stats and makes it look like more players are on
[01/08/09 02:28] Daemon Torvez:Plus I feel moving the DoJos will do nothing to change player behavior so where they are located is just cosmetic to me

[01/08/09 02:29] .Ailith.: *nods to asryn*
[01/08/09 02:29] asryn:Thanks
[01/08/09 02:29] asryn:I\'m a new MP4, been playing pretty regularly for about a month now, starting at MP2.
[01/08/09 02:30] asryn:This debate today is the first time I had heard that there was intended to be any sort of teaching component to the dojo.
[01/08/09 02:30] asryn:I thought it was a just a place where there were rules about who could attack, so people could train without getting killed.
[01/08/09 02:30] asryn:I have never noticed anyone teaching there, or any discussion elsewhere about using the dojo as a place to learn more about fighting.
[01/08/09 02:30] asryn:So if that\'s its primary purpose, as several of you have said, then perhaps it needs to be made more explicit in some way? Better signs, or helpers posting in chat,

or something?
[01/08/09 02:30] asryn:I like the idea of providing fighting-specific help, but if the goal is to help newbies, and I\'ve been here a month without hearing anything about it, then I don\'t

think it\'s functioning as intended r
[01/08/09 02:30] asryn:right now
[01/08/09 02:31] asryn:that\'s all

[01/08/09 02:32] .Ailith.: *nods to Rendril*
[01/08/09 02:32] Rendril Revant:Thank you
[01/08/09 02:32] Rendril Revant:Metal Bunny and Daemon Torvez have already brought up what I wanted to discuss, I will not rehash it all, buyt I would like to comment on the question

about the dojo\'s location and function
[01/08/09 02:33] Rendril Revant:Regarding what was said about moving the dojo: although not the only good place, I feel the current location of the dojo is appropriate _beacause_ it is

for newbs
[01/08/09 02:33] Rendril Revant:Unless I am mistaken, the Marble Dale Park is one of the first locations they come to from story mode. Additionaly, due to the 20 AP cost to cross the

gate, some might wait a while inside (or ouside)
[01/08/09 02:34] Rendril Revant:it is appropriate then if they are not yet battle-hardened that they don\'t have to be mauled simply by not being able to move, for example
[01/08/09 02:35] Rendril Revant:As for its function, I have been witness to more than just battle knowledge being discussed and taught
[01/08/09 02:35] Rendril Revant:Although it has been to a limited extent, and it should certainly be made more explicit that it is not _only_ for battles
[01/08/09 02:36] Rendril Revant:That is all, sorry I missed the first few hours
[01/08/09 02:37] .Ailith.: *smiles* thank you all for your opinions.

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