Secrets

[Asterdai]

MD - our present

By the time anything happens, it is done. It becomes past. Present is a collection of pasts when you sit and think about things. A second in time lost, never to be returned but never truely forgotten. Every second has its purpose, part of the day, year, and life of an entity.
Present is a chance to write your past, create you past, and your history.
Only in that moment can you say you truely exist, and it is in that moment which your past matters. and can be catergarized as a moment in time. Millions and millions of picture snapshots in only a few years of a humans life.
Why are some of the "snapshots" remembered, why do you remember them?
Do we actively remember all of our past somewhere, every second, every thought, to be used when it is needed?
These hidden "memories" must occur without us knowing it, you might not actually "think" oh i wont touch that iron because it may be hot, this could be what people call "commen sence" and what makes wise people Wise.

Snapshots of things which "stick out" in your past, memories.

Maybe Md's snapshots, the world in MD we live in, (the 2d pictures!) are the bits which stick out in M'Ds past/life. Windows to its inner being and "secrets", one of the only ways to access information about what it means. Understanding the world we live in and its purpose. (how much MD is starting to parralel RL is kinda freaky...)
Its is the only thing we can actually and phisically judge it by.
(i think they are awsome for me for imagination purposes, a stimulous for differing attitudes and examples of behaviour which we may latch ourselves onto as RP characters. i mean think about all the TYPE of people you could be, even within strict "alliance" backgrounds and ideals. Thats why it is so interesting when different alliances and lands(snapshots) are created. i mean can you imagine. if MD was white, everything was white. BORRRINGGG i woudnt be able to make a character out of nowhere and role-play it, it would have NO purpose unless we were able to create a "world", a fantasy guideline for how all of our characters should interact (gamesmaster ) and well Mur you are the ultimate gamesmaster and have Good help from people who help "guide" the game, a lot of the dedicated veterens who i get on with.)

But what can these snapshots tell us, these 2d pictures of MD, why do they exist? why are they chosen to be Remembered?

I dont know. But it works.

[awiiya]

I don't agree with the second part. In the first, you are referring to the Principle of time, of course, and the idea that time is simply the addition of many events linked together to form a motion.

The idea that the scenes in MD are like someone's memory, and we are walking through it? I cannot accept that: what we do in MD changes the scenes over time, and things are not always the same.

The world has a starting point: the moment the Angien opened up the box. Everything was there. I fail to see how what we see is simply a reflection of the past, or hiding secrets. Instead of looking back and trying to search out what is being suggested in what is suggesting, create the suggestion.

This is a slightly difficult idea. Maybe an anology will help:

There is a box, and written on the box is a symbol. One person goes up to the box, sees the symbol, and opens the box and starts looking for the replication or representation of that symbol within the box. The second person creates the object implied, and puts the created object into the box.

The first will result in a waste of time, the second in the growth of the box. This is how I view MD. MD is a suggestion that we must take and create. You are right in thinking it points to secrets, but those secrets are held within ourselves to be created rather than within MD.

Perhaps that is confusing.

Awi

Edited December 12, 2009 by awiiya

[Asterdai]

Thanks ever so much for your reply, it makes some sence to me, im so pleased that someone has taken the time to reply.

im going to play devils advocate and argue with ya though

Time in MD

does the wind blow, do the seas move, where are all these animals, such as knators which hunt around loreroot and the wilderwilds that nest about Marind. When you get on the boat at Angiens ferry, does the boat move?
i can understand what you are saying, your right, when the lands of the east entrance was "discovered" there was no "portal" there, and with care the plants grew into the portal. Please can you give me all the other examples You know of events being changed by US. The trees you plant, will they grow?

The only thing i have seen "moving" in MD is when bob the tree blooms.

Are we to imagine time, that is a hard thing to do, There is a reason why the windmill doesnt move, but why does the waterfall in Golemus not flow? Or does it?

I beieve we are presented with "snapshots" from a timeline in MD, this can explain WHY the boat "moves" in the ferry. One snapshot before, and one memory snapshot after. Dont get me wrong, these memories, like you say arnt "fixed" but then what is to say the changes that we can make werent meant to happen, or already have done in MD's tineline.

Its just we can access all the possible timeframe possibilities.

If ANYONE knows of other time the physical world we live in has been "changed" by us, please tell me

[Sharazhad]

[color="#2e8b57"][i]not confusing at all[/i][/color][color="#2e8b57"][/color]

[color="#2e8b57"][i]I think Screen shots are the basis to build something on. Like Sage and her Inn at DQ, or Windy's pub at the sanctuary.  Whatever is hidden is there to add to the intrigue of the game.  It also gives the game a certain feel and texture, for example, I know if I wrote *goes rollerblading" inside  MDA I would probably slip on the floors, whilst I could probably pull that off  in , lets say , the inn.[/i][/color]

[color="#2e8b57"][i]
[/i][/color]

[awiiya]

The screens, while I agree are static, are not... in my opinion... a single snapshot. Can you tell that a window is moving? Glass is actually a liquid.

Similar to this, something set can actually be in motion. Of course some parts of MD don't following this too slow to see idea.

I think that there is not a particular reason that nothing appears to move; there was no wizard who froze time, that is too... simplistic.

Or you could go an entirely different direction, and talk about transposition: it is said that a place has a single identity, which is the summation of all its moments in time into one. Is it too hard to imagine that each scene in MD is not displaying the place in time, but the place withdrawn from time? That is, it's true identity? Of course the true identity doesn't change easily... but it can change.

Awi

[(Zl-eye-f)-nea]

Personally, to a degree and in the majority of cases, I think the scenes only seem static until you do something to give extra growth to them. Force of the masses or of high intellect, as has been proved on many occassions but which seems to get frequently forgotten at speed. Time therefore does have some sort of relevance indeed, as does imagination to a huge degree...but having said that I do love this concept of static memories as a thought experiement, and would hope someone will go into the aesthetic significance of what they define as a snapshot, just because I would enjoy reading.

Incidentally, glass being a liquid is an urban myth unfortunately propegated by far too many sources but quite obvious if you try pouring your window over any given period, or by doing some research if you want to get more specific. Maybe a better example would be a plant, its growing and moving, just at a different percepive level to us. At it's own level it appears quite animalistic as anyone who has seen the program "life" could testify to.

Z

[I am Bored]

hmmm..... but there are browsers that can give life to a still image..... even if it is only fluttering like a flag.....

[awiiya]

True enough, Z. (http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/General/Glass/glass.html) Seems my elementary knowledge of glass didn't quite meet the cut.

Awi

[Magnus X]

this is interesting.

is there really static memory? when you pause and think about an instance in your life(MD or outside), you just dont "see" a particular image (like a photograph snapshot for example), what you see is an event. moreover, it is seeing that particular event in your particular point of view and in how much you can recall about it (you'd remember the most significant thing for you). and so the same event of a memory can be viewed differently by another person. in the same way that we each have our own version of the truth (our opinions).

i believe in MD we are co-creators - the collective conscoiusness that seeks to define itself. and only when we do can we truly make sense of the past, the present and the future.

i think that things move even when they dont. whne you look at a picture, your thoughts start moving, you would ask, even unconsciously, "what is this picture, what does it mean, whats the story, where is it taking me, what is the significance of it, is it even worth my time?" and in some way or another, whether significant or not, whether overt or hidden from us, it affects us and thus affect our actions. actions manifested by our memories, which im convinced is part of our thought-actions, leaves an imprint that someone can pick up and manifest in a totally different way.
i hope that makes sense

we are lords of our actions and slaves of our memories.

[(Zl-eye-f)-nea]

As I like the thought experiment I thought I'd throw something into the pot in the hope of this not dying.

MD has a creator, it isn’t a world where we must come up with theories as to how it came to be like ours. In the world of MD there is indeed a creator. As such, it would seem definitive that the images therein are in effect a thought or a memory we enter into, or even just a representation of such things. At the very least it could be on a parallel to an original firm piece of matter and thereby is worth due consideration. Of course this is a dual thing depending on where you sit on the question itself. Yet even as characters, perhaps strangely, Mur is recognised as the creator.

A thought or a memory ( as has been said here) doesn’t appear to be a static thing, its more like a video clip including your own personal perceptions. This doesn’t however necessitate that a static image cannot be a thought or a memory as a moving image whether perceived by the biological eye, or a mechanical one, is nothing but a series of static snapshots. One snapshot thereby being a part of the whole. As it could be argued that everything is part of a whole this isn’t very interesting on it’s own until you realise that this means all things are a leading indicator to an evolving whole. In any event it could be argued we never see the whole anyway in whatever we see, so a single snapshot is just as good as a clip.

In addition to the above there is a layering. There is the original which it could be argued we never see, then there is my perception of it, then yours, my dogs etc etc. Every time a new receiver enters, a new layer is added, and so each time a new receiver enters, the original changes in some way in terms of it’s entire being. You could say the fundamental never changes, but to me that seems a misunderstanding of an entity’s whole.

If it were possible for someone to walk through your memories, which in a way we allow when we even speak about them, then it is also possible for your memory to change. In a sense I could say that with each step we take and each phrase we utter, we are in effect a sculptur of everything we touch.

That’s my jumbled blurb for now.

Z

[Shadowseeker]

Close due to inactivity.