Response To Those That Believe Al Can't Continue

[Muratus del Mur]

[quote]Peace - I am with Chewett on this one....
Chewett - How the hell can you continue a AL with one person having left, Another one lazy enough to not bothered to even stay in his own land instead he is farming Alts, and i rarely see HP around and moving...
[/quote]

How can i continue? by telling what already happen!! How selfish can you be to say that and ignore that those events already happen. The story was not finished and will continue with the rest of the following events then it will shift the the new kind of AL i described in the docs of the new AL page.

Thats why AL can't be written by any of you, you see it as a reward of some sort to whoever appears there and judge it by the popularity of the people appearing in it. To write it you should consider the story, AL is not your top class popularity contest.

You want me to break the story and ignore it just because those players are no longer as active as they were? Then the AL should look line a news panel with scattered info about everything in the realm. If you want that, fine, will save me from bothering about doing it anymore.

Such a comment coming from "veterans" shows how different you see AL from how i do, makes me think realy serious about it, and makes others feel confused about wrong reasons.

Don't worry, i dont feel like continuing your obsolete adventurelog now. You will be safe from the horror of seing "fossils" walk again.

p.s. what about those in the al that are still kicking?
p.s. replace "fossils" with legendary players without quotes.

Edited February 24, 2010 by Muratus del Mur
fossil explenation

[Kyphis the Bard]

I am sad to hear that news Muratus, I was looking forward to hearing the conclusion of those events.

I was not happy to hear your comment, Chewett. Had you forgotten already the comments in the Newslog saying the AL would be posted well after events had occurred to avoid people interfering before it was time for them to influence events?

The fact that some people aren't as around anymore doesn't change the fact that they DID things.
Should we remove every reference to Khalazdad now that he is gone?
Oh no, can't have the Savelites any more! Savelfuser left the game, have to remove everything he ever did to influence it!

The AL is about things that have happened, it is the history of the realm, not the future, even if it does give clues and lessons.
One of the things that people have been saying for a long time that they felt would revitalize the realm was the resumption of the AL. It gives clues and makes people think. It helps people shape their role and shows "Hey, I can shape this world. The things I do here MATTER."

And even if the AL was what it is NOT, even if the AL was just a STORY about the players, not what they DID, how hard would it be to finish this story?
Liberty has left, Lifeline is (according to you, I don't know him so can't say) farming alts to train, and you don't see Handy Pockets (even though she is on Every Day).
Simple: Liberty dies in the attack that was about to happen, the shades separate Handy from Lifeline, Handy goes on to do whatever she does at the gate while Lifeline heads off to become stronger to protect his friends after letting Liberty die.
It has nothing to do with what happened, and therefor doesn't belong in the AL, but it damn well completes the story and frees up the AL for the next lesson.

Or did you miss the part where Muratus said he was going to start the story in a new way, a more interactive and different way?
New start means new beginning. It's a damn synonym. It WOULD have been different. NOW, it won't be ANYTHING, because you didn't like the idea of what it WAS.

I look forward to the massive negative rep I will almost definitely get for this, I damn well needed this rant.

[JacoAnd]

I really hope you decide to continue the AL, Not that I am part of it, but I am really looking forward to see what will happen.
And to not continue it by not telling "What have happened" even though they are not playing, will destroy the flow in it.
I am seeing it kinda like my favorite show on tv, (and almost looking forward to it as much) if one of the actors in the show cannot be in the the show they will find another actor to take the role, or kill the person in the show (Hey that was an idea... ).

But not continuing it, that would be the most depressing thing I can think of ...

I really hope you decide to continue it even though the veterans (Or some of them) Dont think you should, because I am really looking forward for it.

[phantasm]

very nice Kyphis, as always you prove your Bard worthy title.

I also hope that Mur decides to continue the AL. The Lands of the East is an important part of my MD life and when I heard it was going to continue i couldn't sleep I was so excited. Now to see this post is a tragic blow. As all things some of us make mistakes when we say things, in anger, or frustration, or drunken rage:D. As people have forgiven me in the past for thing said of such, we can only hope that this can be the same case. As humanity is, we try, we fail, we forgive, we try again, we prosper. Or at least that's how I like to look at it.

[Peace]

You clearly misunderstood our words here. I wholeheartily support to have the AL back. What I meant with my comment is that the AL has always been surrounding a specific group of people and mostly veterans as of late. I don't know what is to happen to the story with Liberty and Lifeline, but seriously, it has been like 5(?) months that it was on hold. And right after that pause, a war began in which Sentinels, Knights of the Bell, Children of the Eclipse, Golemus and Summoned army were involved into it.

I am not saying that AL can not continue, of course it can. But I always had the idea that AL is the story that is currently happening in the realm. Some chapters are over and we have them influencing us only by the memory of them. I do not know whether the Liberty's and Lifeline's fight ended or not, I do not know what happened to Kets and the seeds, I do not know what happened to the Shades after being attacked. What I do know is that we have a few months gap.

[quote]
Had you forgotten already the comments in the Newslog saying the AL would be posted well after events had occurred to avoid people interfering before it was time for them to influence events?
[/quote]
Huh? Do you have any idea how was the AL before you even start the game? The story was not finished, players actually had the ability to interfere and influence the story, that was the whole magic of it. Even the most insignificant person could change history with his/her actions in the middle of the story. I began playing in the end of the Shade Balance chapter and ever since the new chapter began, I saw people going along with the story that was actually happening during those days and groups were made, discussing about the events, plotting, finding means to aid a player who was currently in the Adventure log etc. It was motivating us. Now, if you just want to place a story up, that has already happened and none of us could do anything to change it, or even pretend to try to change it just for the sake of it, then do so.

I just would like to suggest that the story to involve more people in it. And not just veterans. Not people who have already been recognised but new players, new roles. So, if you want to finish the current part with Lifeline, be my guest, I have by all means no ways to stop you. But do reconsider ALL the things that have happened ever since you put that story on hold. Things that were not(and probably never will be) in the AL, but did leave a mark in some of the lands and in some of us. I consider that to be lore.

[SageWoman]

There is nothing I hate worse than picking up a book and reading it only to misplacing it. It would always be in the back of my mind, "What did Handy do?". Thats like reading a story only to find that someone tore out the last chapter so your stuck asking questions!

Mur, I implore you not to let the few motivate you to do nothing when the majority of us want the AL to continue. I had FUN creating a sentence with the few characters you allowed as both Sage and Falen Angel. It was like the old summer fireside story time. Each person adds a line to a story making it different each time!

[Kyphis the Bard]

I intentionally didn't refers you, DarkPriestess, as you didn't really say a clear statement.
Thankyou for clarifying though.

Just to be aware, yes, I did know what the AL used to be like. I also joined way back during the Shade Balance, around the same time as you. But I didn't really become active until very early last year.

The ability to influence the AL was one of the things I saw as the magic of MD. In the last events, I personally didn't like that the last story was being posted after events to keep people from interfering until the time was right, but that was Muratus' decision. What I meant in my last post when I mentioned that was that the events of the story had already been carried out, and that things were already set up to finish the story when Muratus was ready.

I was looking forward to the changes to the AL, as it was a return to the AL I loved when I began MD. The way it was influenced might have been very different, but it was a start.

And just to be clear (I thought I was) I don't want just any old story to go up. That's why I was so emphatic that that was not what the AL was, even if it was an option, and that such a thing as what I had (sarcastically) suggested should never be in the AL if it was not true to events.

What you suggested at the end was what this changed seemed to be about to introduce. Sure Muratus would have had to go through piles of drivel at the start, while people treated the "Open AL" idea as a joke, but once people got used to it and some rewards started to appear I genuinely believed that people would start taking it seriously.
Maybe I just have to much faith in humanity sometimes, but that's what I was hoping for...

[Peace]

[quote name='SageWoman' date='24 February 2010 - 02:36 PM' timestamp='1267022206' post='55087']
There is nothing I hate worse than picking up a book and reading it only to misplacing it. It would always be in the back of my mind, "What did Handy do?". Thats like reading a story only to find that someone tore out the last chapter so your stuck asking questions!

Mur, I implore you not to let the few motivate you to do nothing when the majority of us want the AL to continue.
[/quote]
I would like to consider myself out of the group of the few, please. If speaking up my mind and commenting something that others asked for opinions, then I will keep my mouth shut from now on and keep my thoughts and ideas to myself.

Did I ever say that I do not want the AL to continue? Quote me and show it to me if I ever used those words. The AL can continue yes, not written by us yes. I do too want to see the end of this story but I would also like to remember to all those who forget what other stories took part while this chapter was on hold. That is all.

And one more thing. I never considered the AL to be something rewarding. But it is something that influences others.

[Handy Pockets]

I am amazed. I don't know where to begin. There is more to this story, this Adventure Log, that we
will do not see now. There are three more players who had a big part in the story.
You read the beginning of the Adventure Log and assume it is all that there is to the Adventure.

This game, this world, is unique. I live in the Eastern part of the United States, my time is different
than, lets say-- Peace, I rarely see her awake, is that because she is not here? I don't think so.
Chewett, I see awake less often. And I know they are very active in game. There are High School,
University, and work schedules to attend to. The three others in this AL, who, as of now will not be
read about, live in their time zones.

The AL is not bound to only those that were in the Adventure, their story transpired, it is a history of
the new land.

It seems we are a culture. I am reminded of a term from my Cultural Anthropology class, Ethnocentrism.

[Akasha]

The current quest (I like to call it a quest)/ story from the AL it is, indeed way back then the actual date of events. At that time, I needed some specific persons from MD to help in the quest.
They were involved in some activities that were, somehow bound to the quest in progres. The story still exists, I still have the logs, the history can still be written, even if it involves some of our veterans that were ''lost on front''.

At that time, Awii, Handy P. , Guy and some others were not veterans; this is a point you all seem to forgot.

It is more to tell in that story, then you can imagine.
I like it when you cry and rant about not having AL, nor history, nor informations; but when they come , you need to find another reasn just to complain.
Lately i think that some of you log in this world simply to find something to complain/rant about...maybe it is what surrounds you outside that makes you rant at everything.

PS: you is used as you in general

[Phantom Orchid]

Here is a cracker-jack lesson in constructive criticism.

For too long as the bickering been going on on these forums. It makes me want to puke. However, most of the problems have arisen, not out maliciousness (of which we all to easily use as a scapegoat), but out of miscommunication. There are many obstacles from the beginning of communication; from our thoughts being put into words, from our words being formed into sentences, and then from the person reading our sentences having to break down the words and form them them into thoughts, assimilating them, taking those thoughts as interpretations of what we said and trying to figure out - from what they think we meant to say - what our thoughts and experiences actually are. Whew... there is a lot of room for mistakes here.

And it is also important to understand that there are many other barriers to effective communication; languages, cultural, misinterpretations, assumptions. There are also power differences - some have it, some don't. But I will not delve into that just right now.

Anyways, back to the lesson. It is all-too-easy to point fingers, assign blame, and berate others. As Akasha suggested, perhaps many of our real life issues are leaking into this realm.

For this thread about the AL, I suggest that we take into consideration the following things when communicating;

1) It appears many want to Al to continue

2) There are differences in what people want. In what ways can we each express our desires and our dislikes clearly and definitively? Might any of our language come across as alienating?

3) If there is a disagreement, is there any point of the argument which you might agree with? If this is possible, then it will take some of the fuel from piling up near the flames. If there is nothing you agree with, think about how other people might interpret what you are saying. If there is room for misinterpretation, think about how that might be accommodated for.

4) Notice that criticism takes different forms - constructive is when the intention is to help/build the other persons argument (or when it is to explain why it is not true to, to _help_ them see what you think is wrong with it); When criticism is punitive, destructive, and there are lots of fingers being pointed and shields being held up, then people become closed up and then often think that they have to defend their honor - and in turn will go on the offensive.

I, for one - and I know that I am not alone, am excited about the AL continuing. There are many questions/concerns/criticisms about what/how it will continue, but I have faith that however it does manifest, we will all be grateful for the many months of its absence to finally end.

[Muratus del Mur]

[if you plan to flood with replies better place in separate topic, its a long but important post. If not leave it here.]

One thing i want to say about AL, more to remind myself that despite general impression AL not only is entertaining but also important, is that AL is anchored in md deeper than you think. Each story, at least those i wrote, has scattered clues about other things in md. I never use a detail without it to have a meaning. If something is said to much about something, it means it talks about something else. Back long ago when i was playing KC or SS i was also conducting side quests not presented in the AL. From time to time results in those quests were presented in AL, the most important is the KC lost soldiers quest -that is still not over-. Often these quests were used to tell things about the real unsaid before or said in forms that were ignored.

MD has its own network of logic in its construction.MD as you see it its just the face of this logic but not its form. Why something is there and not someplace else, or why something is in a way and not an other, its all connected. There is a reason i started to hate "Ancient Lore" and among some reasons it is because it was presenting fractions of this logic network but in an allready assembled form and was tottaly blocking out the chences of discovering other related reasons. Some things have more than just one meaning and if you become blinded by only one of the meanings you will block out all others and you will never see the connections with the rest.

Over MD history, some players (like 5 or 6 i think) found their way through this MAZE, because it is a maze, and discovered things. Unfortunatly these players were never popular enough. Actually its good they were not, i guess i was counting on it otherwise md secrets could not "entertain" other generations. You hated these players, especialy when they got things overnight, like RPC promotions or my sudden unquestioned respect, but there was and will be no way to advertise there achievements. One of them never got his own confirmation that what he discovered was of such importance, BT, funny and sad at the same time. Others like AK will never be publicly acknowledged or accepted because of their direct relation to me, regardless of their own efforts. Others will be envied and hunted down because they just seem a bunch of spoiled kids that humor me and are in my favors, when in fact they discovered things to earn my attention. And so on.

I got accused of keeping around fossils, players that once did great but no longer keep the md spirit and only stay around like echoes from the past. It is true and will change. I plan to put bounties of concrete value at the end of such logic mazes in MD construction.

After telling you this I can also tell you that I was sad and lost interest in AL when not so many pages ago I openly disclosed some things of enormous importance that were regarded as an other "nice story" and nothing more. In fact i heard voices complaining about how AL is not following reality. Well it will stop following reality from now on to be clear.

SOme of you especialy the ancient ones think that the secrets in MD are never to be found. Well ,yeah, then MD would end. However, i believe they were found 70% over time but never by same person. Their nature was of such kind that whoever discovered a bit of them never told it to others and kept it to himself. Those that told it were not lissened. Never these people communicated their findings in an attempt to find out more, and that is good for me.

Lands of The East, the Tribunal, brings in the final bricks to support MD puzzle. There is one more final stone that is not yet drawn but i have a feeling it will never be. Anyhow, it is a series of about 10 locations that in case everything else is discovered they will simply be unavoidable even if not there, so i don't worry about it to much.

It is my only fault that focus was taken away from this mysterious matter and that AL started to look so unrelated. I will repair this IF/WHEN i will resume AL, by making it again what it once was, the offcial backbone of MD history and meaning. Of course the path the AL will take will never collide directly with the secrets, BUT, it will go close to them over and over again, providing a source of endless reasons and purpose, directed on same lines.

Why this secrecy, what is this puzzle i am talking about? Well lets say when you know a series of things, if its long enough, you can forsee the other things.

For example, if you realise that all the land walls are never a real physical impediment, yet nothing can cross them other than by the gate, you will understand more of those borders that look unpassable and that those walls that look the strongest are in fact the weakest.

What i call the land balance is just one tool that once mastered offers enough logic support to understand things that normaly made no sense. Its like when you find the place of all soubtle details in a pattern, you realise one of them is missplaced, and there is where you find "it".

Inner magic, is like an adventurer that steps over a trap course and tries not to fall. If you master the things i said above, then your logic can step through md like knife through butter, allowing you to prove things in that or that way, to "use" the land weapons, and so on.

its like you need an object in your inventory to support your RP actions. you could pretend you have it, true, but if you actually have it, then nobody will deny that you RP using it. Imagine you are me, knowing things i do about md, knowledge is power.

...but its obviously not enough. So, what al will bring new in its _secret_ evolution, is that it wont be secret anymore, i don't have the time for it anymore. I will tell you the story, your story, and in certain decision points I will see who finds the right path and moves on and who not. I will place bounties where once it was just a pat on the back. Among other things, new "RP points" will be a trade currency to allow the smartest players to build their own items, sort of how WP are now for spells. I will tell you the story and not let you suppose it anymore. It makes me feel good, and allows me to present you far better chelanges.

I still have to find a way to hide my rewards so you can pick them up yourself, codes, features, objects, secret bank accounts, gold stashes hidden in parks (joking!)

Its same situation with the land weapons. Technicaly their logic is done. Long ago activating them mean just figuring out how they work, then you could use them by considering their use a fact and influencing everything acordingly. This is no longer enough. You lost your touch with such things, players now in MD want facts. I want facts. I can no longer listen you each one of you. You need to be able to work on your own. That will be my greatest task while i write the AL, to make it independent of my intervention, yet keep its secrets soubtle enough to be understood by someone and not by many. For this i have someone among you that will be helping me with the code. I finaly found someone to give MD core to work on. He will be working on the things i left unfinished and materialize the ideas i never had the time to do. By saving me this precious time, i will be able to work on the artistic part and bring life once more in md story. I consider md logic maze building a sort of art, because it has beauty, it has method, and requires most of all creativity manifested in an ordered form.

I should remember you that MD started as a forum, with nothing more than a forum and promises of a future "game". Even back then clues from md were debated on the forum and md was its people, nothing more. Remember what's in the box question? Yeah, but you still have no clue what's a Mur

[notxasj]

mur is a wall

[Muratus del Mur]

might be...might be....

[Lifeline]

i am reading the long post of mur about the AL and sadly all i can think about is:

i know enough players that really want to read the AL and are really interested in it but for some reason never even got half of it done after half a year. why is that?
why would any average player care about the AL? it has no relevance to them. it is completely unimportant to them. yes some great secrets there are. but just compare it to real life: what was philosophy in old greek? discovering secrets about the world done by wealthy and strong people. a hobby no noraml person could afford because they had to live and had to work. average players see that they get killed and killed over again and have to fight for their survival. so what does some event at a stone of twisted soul where nobody can go anyway matter to them? nothing at all it wont influence them. they are busy with surviving and cant ponder about the whys of the world. take some 3rd world country. people want to survive and polute the environement and dont care about it. of course they dont care about the environment what does it matter to them if they have to struggle hard to survive and feed their kids.
[b]
MD is a fictional world but people have the same instincts and desires. u cant afford getting into really complicated complex philosopical questions about the world if other threats are so much more real, endangering and relevant for u.[/b] and most real is ur characters vital energy and creatures. during head contest u are only safe if u logout for around 4 days otherwise u keep getting killed over and over again. why care about what shades do in necrovion then? or some pillars of harmony u never knew they existed and a story that brought back the night. sadly the night wont stop players from killing u and doesnt give u a safe place to hide so why bother about it?

i am sorry for writing this so offensive but since the shade balance the AL had no effect what so ever on the normal player. anything that happened didnt change anything for them expect a few new scenes in the lands of the east with nothing to do (so the land is deserted and nobody goes there) and a few more scenes in necro where they cant go and yet again nothing to do there anyway.

it goes down to the basics. u get rewards, become stronger, are known, meet friends, get introduced to alliances, chat, are social, ect while training with other people. what are u doing when u think about the hows and whys of the game? u are mostlikely alone or with very few people and think for urself or discuss it with the same very few people. no reward, no getting known in the comunity, no socialzing, no hope of ever accomplshing anything and worst of all getting ignored. and what if u even have the stroke of genius and understand something essential and find the clue? probably somebody found it before u alrdy, at least that is ur impression if u message mur or akasha about it. and it changes nothing for u because 90% or more of the game wont ever care about it. u cant even talk with them about it because they never thought about it and never will. so what good is that knowledge besides being weak and getting killed or being forced to sacrifice all ur creatures to avoid the loss of stats after to many losses which is a real hard number on ur profile.

[Muratus del Mur]

Yeah, consider the Al a luxury only some can afford to understand, while for others is like politics on TV, fun to watch, impossible to attend.

What do you want me to do? Write an AL where everybody does something? Put a small treasure after each 5 pages?

I can make AL reading optional and write it for a handful of people that read it. One thing is for sure , if at least one person remains interested in it, i will write it.

I am hoping that by giving people a chance to answer something directly in the AL page to see also what unpopular players think.

Like i said, AL's secrets are a luxury, like drachorns, wishpoints, items, like lots of other things in md, in fact, md is made from luxury items if you see it like that.

[awiiya]

The AL should continue because the expression of ideas is an art. It's a painting, in which some people see the artist's intention and understand, and others see only colored lines converging and diverging.

However, I can say that there are far more than one person who are interested in the AL. I know all the times I've been asked about Shades, Angiens, and how the Lands interact. How many conversations have I had about boxes, cubes, spheres, and Land Weapons? Too many to remember or count.

The AL is not a popularity contest. It is a painting in motion; some see the pattern and contribute a few splotches of paint, others are afraid to touch it.

Despite all the stop and go, the AL is the reason I started playing MD and my favorite aspect of MD. The story is the redemption of the human race, so please, keep telling.

Awi

[phantasm]

agreed and well said

[SageWoman]

[quote name='DarkPriestess' date='24 February 2010 - 08:43 AM' timestamp='1267022630' post='55089']
I would like to consider myself out of the group of the few, please. If speaking up my mind and commenting something that others asked for opinions, then I will keep my mouth shut from now on and keep my thoughts and ideas to myself.

Did I ever say that I do not want the AL to continue? Quote me and show it to me if I ever used those words. The AL can continue yes, not written by us yes. I do too want to see the end of this story but I would also like to remember to all those who forget what other stories took part while this chapter was on hold. That is all.

And one more thing. I never considered the AL to be something rewarding. But it is something that influences others.
[/quote]


My comment was not directed at you personally. I apologize if you think so. I merely was commenting the same as I talk in real life.