Items/trade/alt Abuse?

[Yrthilian]

Ok i have to ask the comunity this

This is a theory and has so far as i know not happened yet.

After some chatting with some player regards land items and in general game items
we became concerned with a posable alt abuse system that may not have been concidered
as of yet.

I will try to explain as best i can this idea and want to find it i am right in thinking it
is alt abuse.

Player A (Main)
Player B (alt 1) (note this could be done with many alts but only thies 2 account will be for the example)

1. ALT1 has an item but will only trade such an item for a rare creature but request the the creature
be given to MAIN. Is this alt abuse as it would be useing an item from ALT to gain a rare creater for the MAIN?

2. ALT1 trade item for rare creature uses a proxy player to trade creature to main.
Is this alt abuse as it would be useing an item from ALT to gain a rare creater and useing a proxy player to gove
the MAIN a rare creature?

Now i am sure there are many other ways to do this and create a long trail. But i find i am getting more anoyed with
the whole items getten given to player alts and hidden away from the realm. Esp land items. Now i am all up for trading to get
item back but players are asking for far to much like rare creatures or credit in order to do this and this in MY opinion is
going way to far.

So what do you think are the outlined theroies above concidered alt abuse?
is there even a way to track this sort of abuse?

Thanks for you opinions
Yrthilian
Golemus King
Golemus technomage

[Burns]

When one account benefits from something another account has, it's alt abuse.

The logs will show you who transferred what to whom.
There are sometimes altruistic players that give something to somebody without getting soemthing in return, but that's not happening often, really.

The tricky part is just to find out if things were alt-ish, or if there was some other reason for the odd deal. You have to rely on your nose for that, dragging things to mur might end rather bad for you at times :/

[Lifeline]

i already really dislike the idea of items being lost on "ggg alts". the items are completely lost and never used and its already hard to find out the main account. plus once u do they refuse to trade unless u offer a drachorn or more.
i must say that i really dont get how this alt abuse system works. all i know is that several of my accounts got banned because i stored creatures on them. if that got me banned isnt it much worse having items being completely lost on alts? for crits nobody cares since they dont belong to anybody but the land items actually belong to people. they had them created only to see them lost on some alts who treat them with the highest disrespect imaginable and only seek to make the highest profit out of that piece of junk (as they see it). they are unique creations that are reduced to a mere piece of trash on some unknown alt that prefers letting them rust instead of giving them to anybody unless a completely unreasonable price is paid.
if alts are used to benefit a main its alt abuse. that is stated in the rules. so if u trade one of ur several items u got on ur alts because u were training in ggg against something rare for ur main account its surely breaking those rules. its already bad enough that some dummy target ggg alts got unique land items but them treating the situation like they were gifted free drachorns on the cost of everybody else is much worse.

[dst]

It's abuse. But this is not the question. The question is: what can you do about it? How can you solve the issue? Because personally I don't see a valid solution. NOBODY will check all logs to see who got what and such.
Not to mention that if the logs would be all checked and a punishment would be applied ALL of MD players would be find guilty.

[Udgard]

Just to point out the other side of the coin.

I will argue that not all cases of main vs alt item trades should be considered alt abuse.

The easiest example is if the alt had earned the item one way or another, either by requesting the item to be made (which includes getting the needed wishpoints, materials etc), won it in a quest/contest, or got it for good RP from Mur/others capable (Tengri made a lot, IIRC. This doesn't include me, btw, cause I can't gift people with items - I take their wishpoint in the process). Even though they didn't earn it on their main, they stil earned it and it should be, IMO, their right to do whatever they wish with it. If, for example, Keith had commissioned an item, don't you think it he should be allowed to give it to Tarquinus (or sell it for a creature to be given to Tarq) at will? -Sorry for using your name here Tarq, just thought you'd make a good example-

While I understand this is not the kind of case you are concerned about and far from the reason the topic was created, I feel I should write this to prevent public opinion from being skewed towards "[b]all[/b] item trades from alt to give something to main" is abuse.

[CrazyMike]

I am the last person to have an opinion on alt abuse (due to my scenario)

I will not comment whether it is an alt abuse or not but I can say that hoarding is wrong.

Items are made to be used, and when an item is put on an alt and hidden away, its just wrong.

I agree with dst, the concern here is what can we do about it.

Lets define hoarding in MD.

An item on an alt who is not active in MD? And what if the Main just log on the alt once a day for a minute? How does one catch it?

[Grido]

That's still alt abuse Ud, regardless how seperate and individual your accounts are, if they gain something/info from their other accounts that without that account they could not have/know then it is alt abuse. That is why it is so difficult to ~not~ abuse alts if you have them. It becomes a matter of to what degree a person abuses their alts, rather than if they do abuse or not.

Back to the topic, it can actually be done a lot simpler than that Yrth, but like dst said it's a matter of how do we prevent it from happening?

[Yrthilian]

Well as you may have guessed
yes i know it is a matter of getting prof and of catching people in the act
the main aim o this post was to establish the fact that yes it is alt abuse.
In having had this establised in a topic discussion this meens that any one
tryign to claim but there is no rule agenst it crap.

As i know that there is someone about to try and pull this action off
this post serves as a warning too. As people will be watching and waiting for
such actions and waiting to pounce on the fact the action is taken place.

So as you can see this topic has 2 actions.
1. to make a point of the fact it IS alt abuse
2. To try and come up with some sort of solution to stop it from happining

now i know option 2 is that hard part and yes i have to admit i have no way
that i can think of to stop this from happining even if it was hard coded to
stop trading between alts. there is still a way around it this i know.
I also know there is a much ease way to trade between alts but the samples about
were just that samples. I know we could list all doffrent ways but i didnt want
to spend my entire lunch typing

Anywas i dont have a soluton to option 2 but at least a discussion has started and
well you never know a solution might present its self. (looks at dst only joking )