Leverage

[Fyrd Argentus]

LEVERAGE – A game of investigation, deduction, and blackmail.

1. If you wish to play, sign up for the quest by sending PM (forum or in-game) to me (Fyrd Argentus) including the following 5 bits of information. Each player must MAKE UP these bits of information for the game:
Three identifying facts not otherwise known (examples: Fyrd was born near the village of Bordubois, Fyrd has six toes on his right foot, Fyrd is inordinately fond of English toffee.)
One secret that can be used against him as leverage (example: Fyrd does not wish it widely known that he wears pink underpants.)
One secret desire or goal (example: Fyrd wishes to be crowned Queen of the May).

2. Each player will be given a sixth fact, which is that they have the ability to grant the desire of one other player. (example: Somebody has the right to choose the next Queen of the May, and Fyrd has the ability to grant some other person's desire.

3. The game begins thus with each player knowing 6 facts about themselves, but also 15 combination facts (example: The person with six toes on their right foot is inordinately fond of toffee).

4. Sign-ups will be held until enough players are registered (at least a dozen), then the game will be closed. At that time, the list of players will be published and the game begins.

5. Trade of Information. Information may be traded by any voluntary means. Information may be traded for in-game favors, coins, creatures, whatever. In addition, no more than once per hour, a player may FORCE another player to trade facts as follows.
a. Player A attempts to give player B a new fact.
b. If player B already has that fact, he says so and player A may try again immediately.
c. Otherwise, player B must return a fact to A. He must keep trying different facts until he finds one that A did not already have. Note: the LAST fact you want to let go is the secret leverage over you, but this is how it might be forced out.
d. Any official game fact can be offered in a trade, whether you started with it, got it from another player, or deduced it by combining facts.
e. Once a successful trade is made (or B exhausts all their facts) A may not force B to make another trade for one hour, but of course he may force other players to trade.

6. Leverage. Once you have leverage over a person (i.e. you know their secret shame), they must give you all the facts that they know at that particular time, whenever they are actually asked by you. They are still in the game, but this is a big handicap.

[u][b][Edit note: they're not going to give you their leverage fact until you have all their other facts anyway, this just lets you get anything new that THEY find out, but for free.][/b] [/u]

7. Winning. To win, you must force the person who can grant your desire to do so, by finding out the leverage that works on them. PM this to me (Fyrd) immediately to establish the moment in time - first is the winner.

8. Reporting. To avoid claims by players that they already had a certain fact at a certain time, it behooves every player to record every move they make in the game including details of trades or failed trades, and deductions made from combinations of facts. False claims about already knowing an offered fact will of course be grounds for automatic disqualification. Send a running record to FyrdMD@yahoo.com -- these will only be read in case of controversy over cheating, or perhaps to check up on the winner.

9. Example: Fyrd approaches Nincompoop and says, "Hey, I heard that the player with 6 toes on their right foot is inordinantly fond of English toffee". [Trying to force a trade].
N says "Yeah, I heard that already." [Failed].
F says. "Oh well, did you know that I was born in Bordubois?" [Trying again to force a trade].
N says, "No I didn't, so I owe you one. Did you know that the person who is ashamed that they wear pink underpants wants to be crowned Queen of the May?" [Succeeds, return is offered].
F says "Yes I knew that." [Return offer was known].
N says, "Okay, did you know the player with the fake perm is StinkyNitwit?" [Second try at return].
F says, "No, thanks for that." [Trade is complete]
At which point Fyrd slips away before Nincompoop forces a trade too. [Fyrd realizes that Nitwit knows too much about him, and doesn't want him finding out more].

Edited September 27, 2010 by Fyrd Argentus

[Asterdai]

it sounds like something Z was doing, for his "funnels" quest

i dont understand either really *smiles*
well i kinda do, but i dont think i would be any good

[Yoshi]

It sounds cool, but could be too easily exploitable I think. I mean, what if you just say "Yep, already knew that" And then you keep getting more info...

[Mr Mystery]

How about people must send their known fact to observers/judges. And when ever a transaction is made the talking log must be captured. Via print screen and, a copy in words etc. this would require a lot of effort when having a large number of participants. And if a player is caught cheating, say a penalty of their secret shame is randomly aloted to a random person.

[Fyrd Argentus]

This is sort of what I set up. Everybody should log everything to the FyrdMD@yahoo.com address, and if anybody is caught cheating, they LOSE.

[Fyrd Argentus]

Very soon the player list will be closed. At that point I will finalize people's 6th fact -- what secret desire each of you can fullfil.
I will send this info to each of you in a note, at which time I need to hear back from you either a "ready" or an expression of a need for more explanation, a tutorial, or whatever. If you know you need help, let me know now and don't wait. When all that is resolved, and I have a "ready" from everybody, I will publish the list of players and the game begins.

Important Points:
1. Remove all gender information from the clues. Use "their", "his/her", "the player" etc. People might even want to slip in some wrong-gender pronouns as misleading red herrings, and that would be okay. Gender of pronouns used is not binding info in the game.

2. Your defense against accusations of cheating is to log all important info (interactions, deductions) in a series of e-mails to FyrdMD@yahoo.com. I hope I never have to dredge through this, but it is for your benefit to be safe.

3. You can gather information any way you want but if somebody GIVES you a clue you did not have, you are obligated to give them back a clue that they did not have. This is the forced trade mentioned above in the rules, limit one per hour per player combo.

4. The winner is the first person to post on this forum that they can have their desire fullfilled by forcing [name] to [help you how] by [threating them with what leverage]. The wishpoint for this quest is supplied by *Clock Master* so if you see him, be nice to him, and thank him for supporting Fyrd's quests.

Edited September 23, 2010 by Fyrd Argentus

[Fyrd Argentus]

The game begins now. Player list:

Agis Asticles
Asterdai
Assira the Black
Dracoloth
Kamisha
Keith Moon
Leorius
Mr Mystery
Nimrodel
Pamplemousse
Shadowseeker
Shemhazaj
Tipu
Totenkopf
Udgard
Yala Sviseusen

Three players have not signalled "ready" but it has been 3 days.... If anybody drops out, I will patch up with new links.

If anybody needs tutorial help, I will continue to be available.

Remember, if somebody finds some creative way to cheat, or just messes up the game, the wp will not go to them, and may go to the runner up instead or something. Hopefully I won't have to worry about that. Remember to log your progress periodically at FyrdMD@yahoo.com just to be safe.

Have fun!

Edited September 27, 2010 by Fyrd Argentus

[Asterdai]

OK udgard sent me a forum pm, and i answered, he has not responded back.
meanwhile Yala sent me an in game pm, and i responded

i do not know if Udgard has the fact yet, so in a way ive "stole" one to use for yala

I DO NOT think pm should be used for this game for this reason

instant messanger and chat are instant but i could recieve a PM in my magic duel box and "miss it" or in the forum yet i am not online, who is to say when the clock begins for the hour break?

have people who started using PM not thought of this?

(OK i am now getting ambushed by three people at once, making it VERY hard for me to log my responces in the order to all of them. this realllllly sucks, but i think i am doing a sterling job considering...)


(JUST wondering... Say i give 4 of my my facts to a friend, then i do not answer any pms and do not meet or respond to anyone in the game, My friend will be at an advantage to get facts from others as they now have 9 total facts in defence, therefore they win )

OK i have another problem with PM say i message 10 facts to a person in responce to a force and finally get one that works, therefore i know that that person has a lot. i therefore choose to answer all other pm's regarding leverage before answering that person in the next hour. i have more chance to "counter" them by leaving them till last

i am starting to find this less and less fun when i realise the loops holes regarding sending messages instead of in game chat

Edited September 27, 2010 by Asterdai

[Mr Mystery]

PM shouldnt be allowed. I mean, then the person have no definate way to "leave". of course some say u can ignore, but then again there sthe "read-later" function.

[Fyrd Argentus]

Okay, here's the deal on PM's. Nobody has any way to prove that they were read or not. So, sending a lone PM to try to force a trade is a very dicey proposition. The recipient might read it and pretend that they have not. Of course, they could not legally use that fact then, and could be called to the mat for cheating if they used it without "logging" a way they legally got it.

My advice on PM's - only use them when you can tell somebody IN CHAT that they have a PM coming from you [u]right now[/u]. Then they are binding and can't be ignored.

You can also PM somebody with a request to negotiate a voluntary trade, or meet at a certain spot etc.

[Asterdai]

so let me get this right
say if my fact was, i only go to the toilet every tuesday and sunday, i can say to someone as the fact "there is a lady who goes to the toilet every tuesday and sunday"?

i thought it was "two facts" so that you had to say "I go to the toilet every tuesday and sunday" in responce

[Udgard]

Just to clear some things.. I have already confirmed that you may "communicate in any way you see fit" when asking about using forum PMs or direct in-game means, before I started using the PM system. In-game PMs can be unread, chats on the game can be ignored (pretend you didn't see it or is afk) unless you're catching the person right when they are talking with someone - basically everything can be cheated if there is a dishonest person. For PMs, we should be honest and read it in chronological order and respond only with the fact that we have at that moment. But then I guess it is too prone to cheating if someone is tempted to. So yeah, I agree, let's stop with the PMs for now..

Actually, I would propose a system to fully log all transaction of info, that is ALL information trade should be done via email only, and cc'ed to fyrd. Even if you get it for in-game favors etc, you must log the transfer of knowledge via PM, cc'ed to fyrd's email so all information transfer is fully logged - and with timings clear. You may only use information that the log shows you have at that time, otherwise it is invalid. Any thoughts/comments anyone?

Edit:
@asterdai: I believe you need to say I go to the toilet every tuesday and sunday or, if you have a halo on your head for example, something like the person who has a halo on his head goes to the toilet every tuesday and sunday. If we only say there is a person who goes to the toilet every tuesday and sunday, there is no possible way of identifying the person (other than having ALL facts from ALL players and looking at whose 1 fact you're missing). Fyrd, please CMIIW here.

Edited September 28, 2010 by Udgard

[Asterdai]

i have recieved that kind of style from one person and have passed it on as a "fact" although i myself dontbeliev it to be correct.

The person shall have to tell me, and i will tell the next person i told about the correct fact when the ruling is made. thanks udgard

[Fyrd Argentus]

Right, the fact that SOMEBODY has a favorite color red is not a game fact. There must be a linkage to be considered a game fact. MUR is the person who's favorite color is red. Or, the person whose favorite color is red also grows tomatos. Similarly the fact that Asterdai is a player, is not considered a game fact in this variant of the rules (could be different other episodes).

[Assira the Black]

Just letting people know that I am very busy this week. I will try to get on for a few minutes. I have 4 tests this week in college and I am having trouble keeping up with things as it is. By thrusday evening my time things will be better and I will be able to focus more on things going on in MD.

[Nimrodel]

Its a big headache to attract People's attention to the chat Fyrd.. There are Time zone issues, some people dont log on, some people go idle, Some people dont respond to chat, and some are not interested in trade at all. there are a few issues here:

1. What if someone avoids my Pms and requests on chat saying that they never saw them just because they think I know too much? I cant force trade stuff with people who dont respond at all.

2. What if My wish granting thingy is with someone who is in a totally different time zone and Just logs on once a day for an hour, and doesnt care about the forum PM? I havent even met 4-5 people till now and I have had issues with forum PMs in previous quests.

3. Till now maybe just two people approached me for a trade. I have been trying to find people all over MD but all I find are idle people or people who dont respond. I cant just badger one single person again and again just coz he/ she is the only one who bothers responding.

[Tarquinus]

I have responded to PMs both in forum and in-game. I really like this game, but I am not bothering to document who asked me what and when.

I think it's too bad that someone will likely cheat in order to get a WP. I know I won't win because Nim has been playing so assiduously and so well, but speaking for myself I can be trusted to keep my word. We shouldn't have to police ourselves to have a good time - if we do, then I am unhappy to say it shows we can't be trusted to enjoy a simple game somebody worked hard to create for us.

[Nimrodel]

I vouch for Keith. He has been nothing but very fair and prompt in his replies and I am very grateful to him for being that way. Thank you Seb:D but as i said i don't like badgering one person again and again.

Edited September 29, 2010 by Esmerelda

[Chewett]

sadly it is a fact people cheat quests to reward their friends or themselves, its happened before and it will happen again. You merely need to look at the punishments and wishpoint logs for that.

[Asterdai]

Assira - she has the thing to help me- granos's dna blueprints - ressurect Granos so that i can kill him again
Her leverage is that she has a soft spot for people in necrovion

I Win!!! yayaaaya

i will send my whole log in Forum PM - it has Everything i did on there, and i know others will verify

Edited September 29, 2010 by Asterdai

[Fyrd Argentus]

Okay, if I read the log Asterdai sent me correctly, he basically got a lot more facts than Assira did, wore her out and got her to admit her leverage (probably too easily - leverage should have been last to admit -- note her post "Assira the Black Becoming Brain Dead... studying for 3 tests that are tomorrow " ). She then had to reveal the rest of her secrets, including the very lucky fact that she was the one that could fulfill Asterdai's secret desire.

Seems an abrupt end to the game, but I think we have arrived.

Unless anybody is going to raise objections, I think Asterdai is the winner. I'll wait till tomorrow then request Clock Master to award the wp.

Congrats, Asterdai.

Please post with your opinion whether we should do this again, and what should be different.

Edited September 30, 2010 by Fyrd Argentus

[Asterdai]

[quote name='Fyrd Argentus' timestamp='1285807747' post='69384']
including the very lucky fact that she was the one that could fulfill Asterdai's secret desire.

Seems an abrupt end to the game
[/quote]

i must admit i was suprised myself, Assira being the first person that i found Leverage over, and the first person whos desire furfiller i could find
*wipes brow* phew!

i guess my other posts say how i felt about the game, but it was fun, just hard work to log everything

[Agis Asticles]

yea, was fun...though admittedly i had a bit of trouble finding people awake that wanted to trade...

[Kamisha]

Well done and as for suggestions I have a couple. For starters the use of the PM's sort of defies the ability to walk away from a request as you get trapped in continues back and forth. Though I know this will be a problem for some people as time zones are different then others so fixing this may be difficult. Maybe a command word to say that you are going to ignore farther information from a certain person.

Second people should be given some info as the game starts similar to the ones given in the example such as the same person who cant____ also can_____. This would allow people to find peaces of data and fill in more links them selves making the illusion of it feeling more like a mystery they have to solve. However if you do incorporate this second idea you would have to add more secrets because using this would be sort of a 2 for 1 deal.

That is all I can think of for now. I'll tell you if I think of any more.

[Nimrodel]

congrats asterdai! can you put up all the six facts of every player? I wanna know which player had my wish granting ability and if I had a greater chance of winning if I werent on a train whole of yesterday.

My 6th fact:

[spoiler]Nimrodel has an imprint of a key taken from the Wind and Rain Pub.[/spoiler]

Edited September 30, 2010 by Esmerelda