Hired Adepts Union (HAU)

[apophys]

The creation of this group is in response to the abandonment of the [url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/9182-wandering-adepts-association/"]Wandering Adepts Association[/url]. This group, unlike the other, is not created as a joke.

The upcoming BHC creates a pressing need for a way to become mp6 for a day or two. The HAU will aim to fill the need, and will hopefully continue to exist permanently afterward, while trying to minimize effect on existing mp6s.


Any motion can be put to a vote by 2 members or by the chairman, and if agreed to by a majority of responding members within a week, will be implemented. Chairman can implement motions instantly if there are no objections.
For example, members can vote to limit membership, vote to depose a chairman, elect a new one, etc.


[b]Members not adepted to a current client should become adepted to an existing mp6. This is to try to avoid overall draining adepts from current mp6s.[/b]


Current price:

Flat rate of 30 silver


Operating procedure:

- Client contacts chairman (forum or in-game) to arrange a meeting
- Client meets chairman in-game to give payment and to tell how many adepts he has (call this number X)
- Chairman posts in thread verifying client
- Members post in thread that they have become adept of client
- First (32 - X, or 30 if X=0,1,2) members to become client's adept get paid 1 silver by chairman
- When client is finished (maximum 1 day at mp6), this gets posted in the thread so members can return to regular mentor

- Extra silver collected will be placed in the treasury, to be dealt with by member consensus. E.g. quest sponsorship, or redistribution among members.


Treasury: 0 silver

Chairman: apophys

Members: (8)
apophys
duxie
TTL
The Warrior
Manda
Laphers
xrieg
Lone Wolf
<members needed!>


SIGN UP IN THIS THREAD, PLEASE.

Applicants: please state the mentor you will be adepted to in between clients.
100 active days required.

Any alts caught signing up will have all accounts removed from the list and will have prices doubled for any service.

Edited May 17, 2011 by apophys

[Chewett]

So i could join, and get a motion passed that effectively disbanded the society?

But more to the point, What do you say that you are effectively removing one MP6 from their place as helping? Helping people go up who have no intention of helping and at the same time removing adepts from real MP6's that have worked hard to get them, for the sake of greed?

If it was a public service, it would be a free organisation instead of taking silver, which would make it much friendlier if co ordinated with MP6's

Have you spoken with the MP6's about your idea? Because since they will be the ones effected.

[apophys]

If a majority of members supported it, you could, I suppose...


It's better to have 30 or fewer people at a time adepted to one mp6-for-a-day, instead of having many more siphoned off by multiple mp5s who want to go mp6-for-a-day but don't have the required number of adepts yet.

The mp6-for-a-day thing is going to happen anyway; this way at least the general adept pool is less stressed.


EDIT: I just got an idea. I'll make adepthood to an existing mp6 a requirement for all members in between jobs. So the union would be more or less carbon neutral, so to speak.

EDIT2: Chewy, you can't really expect 35+ adeptable people to run an effective organization out of the goodness of their hearts. Silver is needed as an incentive for it to run smoothly enough to be useful.

Edited May 4, 2011 by apophys

[xrieg]

[quote name='Muratus del Mur' timestamp='1299254925' post='79994']
(...)
mp6 = maybe to visit one day for a week or so
(...)
[/quote]
It was obvious that with current number of players (especially 100d+) MP requirement for crits upgrades make adepts a commodity and long term MP6 thing of the past (maybe 1-2 permanant MP6 if it work out). I may like it or not - but it's not apophys's fault, only game rules has changed.

[duxie]

[size="2"][font="Verdana"]
i still think that new requirement was just a beginning of changes, but while it is in this way, i will sign up for this group.
[/font][/size]

[apophys]

Further applicants:

please state the protector you will be adepted to in between clients.

Edited May 4, 2011 by apophys

[Amoran Kalamanira Kol]

I will say this very clearly, as a current mp6 who has remained mp6 for a selfless purpose: I do not, absolutely do not agree with the new unfinished changes. The only thing I can agree with is the 100 days requirement, but not that the mp6 stage, which has ever been used as a stage to protect younger players to become a solely experimental stage.

I have had numerous people tell me to drop so they can work toward raising their creatures, and each time I have refused to do so. I will drop when I am ready, and I will continue communicating with my adepts as I have been long after I remove myself from this mind power.

There are many in the realm who ARE selfish, and that is unfortunately a quality that this current change will bring out in many players, especially those who wish to gain an achievement, or wish to max their creatures just to have them maxed. I feel that this sort of thing will hurt the few mp6 who have chosen to stay in that mind power for a reason.

I feel that a second option should be set in place for people who wish to upgrade their creatures. A different challenge that will NOT cause unrest in the realm and conflict between players- perhaps a new and more challenging way to train said creatures after they reach a certain stage?

It's highly unlikely that such a thing will be put in place, but I'm certain that there are ways to make it reality in the game if individuals wish to try hard enough to make it reality.

Concluding this, I ask that the players who wish to become mp6 to upgrade their creatures at least speak to the existing mp6 in the game before 'begging' or 'taking' any adepts unfairly.
A lot about finding adepts is mutual respect between the protector and the adept, and an agreement to help said adept further (by giving small hints and clues along the way) himself in the game. With this new 100 active days requirement, it makes finding adepts more difficult, as many mp6 of old prayed upon the new mp3 players to fuel their mind power. Basically, it takes a lot of time to find adepts, and a lot of time to earn adepts. Please don't ruin that with selfishness.

[apophys]

[quote name='Amoran Kalamanira Kol' timestamp='1304492828' post='83869']
There are many in the realm who ARE selfish, and that is unfortunately a quality that this current change will bring out in many players, especially those who wish to gain an achievement, or wish to max their creatures just to have them maxed. I feel that this sort of thing will hurt the few mp6 who have chosen to stay in that mind power for a reason.
[/quote]

Having been made aware of the potential problem of adept siphoning, I have implemented a rule that members of the HAU be adepted to an existing protector mp6 while between clients, to try to minimize the impact on mp6s.

Do you have any suggestions on what else could be done?

Edited May 4, 2011 by apophys

[Amoran Kalamanira Kol]

[quote name='apophys' timestamp='1304493495' post='83870']
Having been made aware of the potential problem of adept siphoning, I have implemented a rule that members of the HAU be adepted to an existing protector mp6 while between clients, to try to minimize the impact on mp6s.

Do you have any suggestions on what else could be done?
[/quote]

I think that particular requirement for what you are trying to do is reasonable, as for a better solution to that I currently can't come up with one. As for a solution to decrease the strife that the mp6 change will cause, I can only suggest a game-wide change at the moment. Those are easy to speak but never easy to achieve unless a large number of people agrees with what is suggested, and as long as what is suggested is laid out clearly.

My post was spoken mostly toward the people who won't follow along with your request to adept to an mp6 in-between. Or in general, not follow along in any sort of reasonable ideal at all. There are many people in the game like that, unfortunately.

[Shemhazaj]

[quote]Having been made aware of the potential problem of adept siphoning, I have implemented a rule that members of the HAU be adepted to an existing protector mp6 while between clients, to try to minimize the impact on mp6s.[/quote]

[font="Book Antiqua"][color="#696969"]by minimize you mean make the Protectors drop to MP5, lose all worshipers and then asking them to come back before next "job" kicks them out again?[/color][/font]

Edited May 4, 2011 by Shemhazaj

[apophys]

[quote name='Shemhazaj' timestamp='1304494947' post='83875']
[font="Book Antiqua"][color="#696969"]by minimize you mean make them drop to MP5, lose all worshipers and then asking them to come back before next "job" kicks them out again?[/color][/font]
[/quote]

I'm sure there is an available buffer in MD of 30 adeptable people, the losing of which will not drop any mp6 down to 5. I'm aiming for that.

There wouldn't be more than one client at once, so no more than 30 adepts could be taken at once. As long as this union is not functional, there will be mp5s who try to gather adepts separately, and long-term, making a much larger overall adept drain.


I'm simultaneously trying to make some people who are not currently adepts of an mp6 to become so, if only intermittently.

Edited May 4, 2011 by apophys

[TTLexceeded]

For 1 day i am in. But i want to be able to choose if i want to be paid or not...
Current adept of Peace if she doesnt come back its no problem switching for a day.

[Burns]

I like this thread, a little more than Shem's even because it's obviously not a joke this time.

I mean, who wouldn't like a list with the people who sell their loyalty for a coin? Makes my life as ally-leader and quest creator so much easier...

[xrieg]

xrieg 133ad

[quote name='Burns' timestamp='1304499866' post='83881']
I mean, who wouldn't like a list with the people who sell their loyalty for a coin? Makes my life as ally-leader and quest creator so much easier...
[/quote]

Do you claim that in order to get chaos archer one should be real mentor to 30+ 100d+ players? The same chaos archer most current mp5s got maxed looong time ago without a fuss? This discussion could make sense if we would be talking about something new and unique - some extra feature for few selected (i.e. if crits went downgraded automatically after set time after upgrade). As it is, new and old MP5s alike will have to go MP6 - just to be able to fight current maxed crits in circulation. The choice will be between building coalition and negotiating with each potential adept separately - or pay to have it done.

[Shemhazaj]

[quote name='TTLexceeded' timestamp='1304498847' post='83879']
For 1 day i am in. But i want to be able to choose if i want to be paid or not...
Current adept of Peace if she doesnt come back its no problem switching for a day.
[/quote]


[font="Book Antiqua"][color="#696969"]Judging from the fact that Peace is online atm and that she mentioned that she's back (yesterday on the mood panel if I remember correctly), I'd assume she did come back.[/color][/font]

[duxie]

[quote name='Burns' timestamp='1304499866' post='83881']
I like this thread, a little more than Shem's even because it's obviously not a joke this time.

I mean, who wouldn't like a list with the people who sell their loyalty for a coin? Makes my life as ally-leader and quest creator so much easier...
[/quote]

[size="2"][font="Verdana"]hah! loyalty hardly has to do anything in here. it's a point of view - here's where i'm really loyal. things were mixed together which i think never should happen...

fighting mp has their main purpose - to make themselves stronger. to do that now they are pushed to fight a non combat mp in a sort of way, even if they don't want to. also there are many old fashioned mp5s like you, who had no such requirement and already running with maxed armies. i don't feel this is right or fair, so i want to change that and doing it in a way i can see.

in fact, i think this will help everyone: mp5s to get rid of this requirement, mp6s not to worry anymore about mp5s taking away their adepts, and... you! to keep at least closer to decent challenge from newcomers and don't get bored! we're the ones who can try to influence this world, aren't we?

to add more: who's talking about leaving their mentors?
[/font][/size]

[Burns]

heh, by no means did i refer to the game-stat loyalty... Maybe integrity or allegiance make the better word for what i meant. Sound a lot fancier, too.

[ChildOfTheSoul]

I actually agree with both opinions here. I understand why an association like this is necessary with new game changes in place, and it's certainly understandable for others to be a little angry over individuals that leave their protectors/mentors for a silver coin or the principle of removing the difficulty of passing the barrier.

Frankly, neither side should worry. I'm not leaving BFH because it's easier to stick with him and like Aphophys said, "He expects a buffer." I guess I'm one of those. However, this union is based off of good intentions and the silver IS necessary to keep it operating incentive-wise.

I don't necessarily agree with people hopping around from "mentor" to "mentor", but I don't agree with others looking down on them for doing so, especially when it comes to matters such as quests, alliances, etc.

EDIT: Spacing (easier to read)

Edited May 17, 2011 by ChildOfTheSoul

[TTLexceeded]

Its a question of helping or not for me and not of loyalty. If Peace is back then i wont participate. And if i participate as I said I want to be able not to get paid from certain individuals.
Some times help comes with a cost some times not.Its a simple fact. Nothing more, nothing less.

[apophys]

Peace is back, but last I heard she wasn't interested in going mp6 again.

Of course you can choose not to get paid, TTL. And you aren't forced to adept to someone you don't want to adept to, either.

[Chewett]

[quote name='apophys' timestamp='1304495650' post='83877']
I'm sure there is an available buffer in MD of 30 adeptable people, the losing of which will not drop any mp6 down to 5. I'm aiming for that.There wouldn't be more than one client at once, so no more than 30 adepts could be taken at once. As long as this union is not functional, there will be mp5s who try to gather adepts separately, and long-term, making a much larger overall adept drain.I'm simultaneously trying to make some people who are not currently adepts of an mp6 to become so, if only intermittently.
[/quote]

The Problem is, the "30 buffer" wont be the 30 people that will apply, you will get people who will sell themselves for greed and maybe even ones who "want to help" But The problem will occur that there are some people who just wont adept anyone, You remove adepts from valid mp6's and if you take "a few" from each, you could effectively kill all mp6's in one fell sweep. Shem is completely right, People wont want your "help" of getting to Mp6 during times when you are not selling yourself when they will be dropped once the next buyer comes along.

[quote name='Burns' timestamp='1304499866' post='83881']
I like this thread, a little more than Shem's even because it's obviously not a joke this time.I mean, who wouldn't like a list with the people who sell their loyalty for a coin? Makes my life as ally-leader and quest creator so much easier...
[/quote]

I find this immensively funny, And kinda agree

[The Warrior]

I wish to join the HAU. In-Between Protector:[color="#FF6600"][b] *Indyra*[/b][/color]

[Nimrodel]

Hmm... Interesting... You people could be royally exploited you know? I know a few people who would be really apt for the exploiting thingy...

[Curiose]

Sorry poppy, but I disagree with this, also.

Who is to say that this idea does not install a sense to the newbies [100 AD or not] that Worshipers are dispensable? It certainly does treat the MP6 stage as such, what with having people help someone become mp6, and then letting them drop hereafter.

But then, would you even bother holding yourself responsible for your organization's actions if, they do in fact, dropped a LEGITIMATE MP6? You are not only taking people from current MP6 who, as Amoran have said, use it selflessly, but you are cheapening the idea as a whole. And what of those who helped one become mp6, and yet do not leave, and instead, others follow that same route and make someone an mp6 who does not deserve to be mp6 just for selfish reasoning and misconstrued moral conscious?

That, is what irks me. It does not matter how much you try to justify it. There are people who abuse the system. There will be idiots who think that they can get off to whatever greed they have. It isn't right, and it certainly not fair.

Edited May 4, 2011 by Curiose

[apophys]

*sigh*

How about this: I'll ask the protectors how many adepts each have, and I will only accept up to a maximum of X - 35 from each responding protector. Sound good? That should unequivocally dispel your fears.
EDIT: Preliminary results are not looking good. Will get back to this once I've heard from all the active protectors.


Curi, ask the newbies. It is a roundabout of the system, nothing more; they should understand the difference between a legitimate mp6 and an mp6-for-a-day, between goodwill and a paid tour. Mur stated that mp6 is something to visit for a day or week, so I didn't start this.


It will never be a problem that people stay with a client. They want silver, so they will go to the next client. A client will not overstay his welcome at mp6, guaranteed.

Edited May 4, 2011 by apophys