Vaul

A very nice analysis, well said. So the "beatification" (shall we say haha) of the dojo is in progress. It is to be made mandatory, in due time? Ok, I'm satisfied

Actually I wrote ".[i]..The player took only brief notice of my [b]comments[/b]...[/i]", and you wrote [i]"...but I dare say that a [u]single[/u] [b]comment[/b] in the chat..."[/i]. Singular/plural. You can easily get confused

Yes, your division corresponds with my understanding of the matter. Here's a bit more of legal theory, I think it's useful in the development process... A system can be categorized by defining its elements. Vital elements of a rule/obligatory system are: - Who defines the rules and their transgressions? - Who enforces those rules? - How are the transgressors punished by the rule's enforcers? (there's much more but this will do for our discussion, the rest if of a more scientific nature ) So how does this apply to our discussion? 1) [b]The game rules[/b] (set by the creator) are mandatory for all players, and transgression is punished by officials, whose authority and methods are derived from the game "law". 2) [b]The society rules[/b] (set by a bigger or smaller group of players) are not mandatory, and can only be tolerated by the officials if they don't interfere with the game rules. Based on consensus, it operates solely through the participation of willing participants. Transgression of these rules can be punished but that's between the participants and the transgressors - as long as it doesn't interfere with the game rules. I hope the difference is clear enough, and that we can agree on these two categories about the nature of a stable system that can exist in the game. The question remains - how does the dojo correspond to this division?

I accept your apology, where ever it might be, but I'll read between the lines No problems. Back on topic shall we? [quote name='Liberty4life' post='18138' date='Oct 9 2008, 01:22 PM']i didnt tried to say that your observation should be discarded i was trying to say that it was already seen and suggested a way to fix it, the same one you suggested[/quote] Ok, I pointed out a problem about the dojo information system and it has been observed before. Done. I observed several other things however (which have been seconded as "new"), and I would like them commented. [quote name='Liberty4life' post='18138' date='Oct 9 2008, 01:22 PM']i still dont get this, so what if you dont want to follow rules, you attack players, dojo staff permits you to attack, when spell wears off, later you came back when there is no dojo staff online and attack again, i still dont see it as problem, btw i think it will work in that way, but dont believe me much because i dont know it, it just an assumption[/quote] I would like to explain it further to you. If you give powers to some players that nobody else has, and if you call those special players "officials" - then you have made the dojo "official", and it becomes part of the game rules. On several occasions you have said that the dojo will not become part of the game rules. It has been sanctioned by the creator, but it is not implemented as a game rule. Can you see the contradiction? If there are officials with special duties and powers about the dojo, then the dojo becomes an official element of the game structure. As I understand it, the dojo is based entirely on community decision. I would like to point out that this is not the consensus of the majotity of the gaming community, but rather those who have taken the initiative in the first place. This is great and I love the idea, as most players. BUT! There's alway a but isn't there? BUT it is not [b]mandatroy[/b]. This is a huuuge HOLE in the game, or rather - your dojo project. It is the very first thing that needs to be defined! It is the the basis of the whole project. Is the dojo mandatory (either now or in the future), or not? It is completely inconsequential to discuss the details of the dojo system, such as punishment and information availability, until this vital question is answered! The answer to that question will answer numerous other questions. For instance, if the dojo is NOT mandatory, nor will it be made mandatory in the future, then what possible argument could support founding special officials and special powers that are concerned with the dojo?? If the dojo-supporters want to punish people who damage them, they can punish them on their own, they can organize, they can make their lists, they can do this or that but it's their [b]private matter[/b]. If the dojo IS to become mandatory, then we can talk about the punishment system by means of special officials with special options and powers... Without an answer to that -it simply can't be done in a normal stable system of rules, and that is the foundation of every community of people, be it a game or a state. Is there anyone else who is in a position to answer this question? And I hope you agree that I have validly proved the contradiction, as well as you'll agree that there is no place for contradictions as the game becomes fully developed.

I agree completely with you, on all accounts. But I think you'll agree with me that all that is subject only to individual control of the players. It's hard to imagine a RP authority that polices the chat-sites... We should agree on the matter, produce a program and advertise it. Dare I call it a "movement"? Unlikely, however...

[quote name='Udgard' post='18127' date='Oct 9 2008, 12:19 PM']...and I hope this will not continue to a further fight...[/quote] This is guaranteed, solemnly

You make a good point. Perhaps you would like to address the question of balance? Let's imagine a compromise between you and tarquinus, is the balance of the RP styles important? I thing that the asterisks are overwhelmingly dominant, to such an extent that it decreases the quality of the gaming atmosphere (for some, and seemingly more and more, players)

Perhaps in time the finished game might provide a more serious atmosphere to the game concept, which might prove a positive influence on the RP wannabes Perhaps not... Obviously, if one wants to do some serious RP* right NOW, the first step should be identification of similarly minded players. Perhaps a new forum category...? Opinions? *by serious RP I mean making elaborate character stories and modifying them "by the MD book" - for example, there can be no mages because there is yet no magic, etc... (open for discussion)

well I for one welcome you I have a friend who would probably want to injure you for your nickname It's his in most games, you see... You were faster, however... haha

[quote name='maggot' post='18090' date='Oct 9 2008, 01:38 AM']Disagree. It would be pretty much a game rule not to attack in dojo if the developer gave those powers to dojo staff.[/quote] This is exactly what I said, before and during I somehow ended up meddling with the oligarchy system of the forum and the game, or so it seems. Liberty, you have offended me and I must take issue with that right now. Let me explain, try to read me correctly and with good will... I don't care who you are, and I care even less who you think you are. You think I owe you respect just because you have some kind of title next to your nickname? I'll tell you what you have and I don't . it's [u][b]time[/b][/u]. You have seniority. You had time to ask questions when no one bothered. You had time to answer questions when others ignored. You got [u][b]involved[/b][/u], and you were [u][b]appreciated[/b][/u] for it. This is the basis of your title, and the only substance behind it is your personal will, and time. And this is exactly what I am trying to do! I'm in the initial phase of asking questions. I will eventually reach the phase of answering them, and, in time, I might call you a colleague in terms of titles next to nicknames. I am to be called annoying because of this?? I am annoying to you?! For getting myself [b]involved[/b], I am annoying?? My comments are constructive! I am well spoken, well read, well educated and well mannered. "I have a gift for annoying people"? I ask you again, who are you?? Seeker of Enlightment, indeed. Player to player (and not serf to master, as you would obviously have it), I demand your apology. I am a lawyer. And a Croatian one at that. You might know what that means, but somehow I doubt it. It means that I am not primarily trained to be persuasive - I am trained to [b]identify an obligatory system[/b], to [b]recognize its integral elements[/b], and to [b]find loopholes[/b] in it! When I say there is a loophole in your system, rest assured that my observation is worth looking into. And certainly not be discarded as [u]annoying[/u]. I suppose you are a younger person, so I am not heavily offended, but I still demand your apology. If you think I owe you an apology for asking questions, I'll give it as a gesture of good will. I'll repeat my point, so you don't get hung up on less important parts of my post, and this is aimed to the entire development team. I realize that you are very busy, and I'm not commenting on that at all. I'm just [b]warning you[/b] in good will that your approach to the dojo problems is folly! It is clear that in this stage you are [b]more concerned[/b] with implementing the punishment system than improving the information system! [b]IN MY OPINION[/b], and pardon me for taking myself seriously, this is a deconstructive approach to a problem (and I think I know my way around obligatory systems), the frequency of which will take its toll on the (emerging) new-player "[i]caste[/i]" (?) (dramatic music plays). And while I'm above responding to insult by further insult (@Liberty), I am, however, not above theatrics. That being said, I HUMBLY take my leave from your august presence, oh mighty oligarchy of seniors, ye who command obedience and respect lest we mortals be damned for annoyance. A joke. Thank you for your patience.

Oh I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that I was speaking to the game creator himself Yes, I think there's a flaw, because the information is just not easily available. You say people are warned after they make a mistake. I'm saying that the mistake can be prevented. I suggested a method, and it's up to the creator, the staff or whoever is in a position to make a comment about that to consider it. If you're annoyed, I'm sorry that you are of weak nerves, but I'm not speaking to you really, am I? The game is in alpha still, so you can forget that "the stuff is already there" argument. I'm talking about what's not there, and what I think should be there. Your opinion is known, thank you for that. Who are you anyway? Don't be offended please, I'm actually trying to ease those weak nerves of yours.

WHAT are you talking about?? I'll have to take it slowly I see, piece by pice... Are you even reading my posts?? [quote name='Liberty4life' post='18055' date='Oct 8 2008, 02:52 PM']i dont get it what you wanted to say with this to stop posting names of repeated offenders since they know about rules and they keep breaking them, you call this discrimination? O.o so for example, a guy is a serial killer, you caught him, and instead of putting him in jail you would set him free to kill more ppl, sry but thats what you said, that you dont like that others who respect rules of dojo hunt this which are disrespecting dojo rules (that means killing players which respect it), it think you should reconsider what did you said[/quote] First of all, you don't know for a fact that all the offenders know about the dojo. You MAY know about certain individulas but you certainly don't know if all of them know, and you seem to have forgotten how confusing things get when you pop in the dojo area after the first story mode. Secondly, you talk about "braking the rules", and then you say that the dojo isn't mandatory. This is a contradiction, because the dojo rules are not recognized as a game rule, but as a deal between certain player that chose to behave this way. The creator ENDORSED your dojo, but has not made it a rule of the game. Thirdly, your example about murder is ridiculous, and I'll tell you why. Murder isn't punished because it's wrong (from a legal perspective), it's punished because it's [b]illegal[/b]. You do know what that means? It means that there's a law saying its not permitted to kill someone, lest ye be punished. If there's no law, it's permitted (the old latin legal [i]nulla crimen, nulla poena sine lege[/i])IN MD THERE IS NO LAW ABOUT THE DOJO. The dojo FOR NOW exists only thanks to the good graces of the players, but not the game rules. [quote name='Liberty4life' post='18055' date='Oct 8 2008, 02:52 PM']you suggested to make this about dojo the game rule, well that cant be done, punishment for breaking game rules is to get banned, and if you break dojo rules, why in hell you should get banned? since there are some players which play dark/evil role for example[/quote] I DID NOT suggest to make it the game rule, you're not reading my post. What I suggested is that if the creators could do something about SECURING the dojo by making the INFORMATION more available. I also suggested a possible method to that effect. [quote name='Liberty4life' post='18055' date='Oct 8 2008, 02:52 PM']for now only way of punishment for this that break rules is to hunt them down, as i said later it will be implemented that this player which break rules will be unable to attack[/quote] So you're saying that it will be a game rule after all? But above you said it can't be done? What do you mean, I'm confused? [quote name='Liberty4life' post='18055' date='Oct 8 2008, 02:52 PM']considering all this what you said, you would like to break dojo rules and go unpunished, or maybe you rushed toooooooo much about your opinions[/quote] I said no such thing. I'm a big supporter of the dojo, and I have never attacked anyone in the dojo area. To be honest, actually I did, when I first entered the area after the first story mode. I had no idea it was a dojo, I was new and everything was confusing. The IDEA of a dojo never even occurred to me. I was lucky someone had politely told me in a PM, and I am grateful that no one was angry because of my ignorance. And that's why I'm suggesting a more active informing mechanism, because if there wasn't for that polite person who warned me, I could have easily got to one of the lists and be "hunted" for it. This is very bad, to be misread so severely. You're not even reading my posts. I never said that I would like to attack peole at will, I'm pointing out a fatal FLAW in your dojo system, and it can cause discrimination and problems for people who just don't know what a dojo is and how it works in MD.

Yes yes I realize that, I'm not rushing anything nor am I complaining about the existence of the dojo (read closely), I'm just saying that there is a certain level of hypocracy regarding the dojo offenders. I am simply suggesting (not rushing) either the dojo-apologists demand that the development team* (*for discussion purposes) secure the dojo consensus by adding an automatic mechanism that will warn new players about its existence, or either the team ignores this initiative and therefore prohibit discrimination of the players who have their freedom in deciding how they should go about playing the game. Offender lists are discrimination, they are marked as some sort of criminals and forum readers are encouraged to recognize these players as negative elements who don't respect the community, and perhaps even take action to punish these offenders. [b]In my opinion[/b], this is unacceptable and wrong. Either the [i]game authorities[/i] secure the dojo by making the information available (really, few people read the forum), or they ignore it completely (which in itself drags along other effects - mainly the prohibition of the discrimination in form of the lists). I would like to add a clause to my opinions ---> [b]IN DUE TIME[/b]

[quote name='Liberty4life' post='18042' date='Oct 8 2008, 09:25 AM']dojo isnt programmer's idea, its players idea bound to role play, you can see player that belong to dojo staff and have titles saying so, its up to us (player, not developing team) to make dojo work[/quote] So you're saying that the players decisions on how the game should be enriched is no business of the developers? You are mistaken. And I'm not saying that the developers should make the dojo work, only that it would be better if the developers accept the initiative of the players and make sure that the dojo is there. When the players become aware of the dojo, it's up to them whether they will honour it or not. And if the game developers have nothing to do with the dojo, then why are there lists of offenders? I demand that these lists be prohibited from the official forum of the game. Nobody is braking any rules of the game, and there is absolutely no reason why should there be any lists of people who disagree with other players on matters that ale clearly of an optional and personal nature, between the players. If the developers have nothing to do with the dojo, then no one should be designated as some kind of criminal if a player should choose not to play along with some other players who decided something on their own - at least not on the official forum. However, if the developers choose to support this idea of the dojo, and approve that transgression of this "consensus" (although it really isn't, as experience shows) should be marked as negative, then why shouldn't they make this extra effort and make sure that EVERYONE knows that it's a dojo. Not to make sure everybody honours it, but just that they are aware of it.

Could a message be programmed so that every new player automatically receives an inbox message in which he would be asked if he would honour the dojo areas, and a list of the dojo areas, and an explanation of the dojo. And then it will be left to his own will and conscience, but at least he will be aware of it and no one might say that they attacked because of ignorance, nor will anyone say that they're damaged because they're forced to honour the dojo and some people even don't know what it is. By programming something like that I think you would solve a lot of problems, and you would learn no players to pay attention to the details right from the start. It could also be seen as an initiation into the gamer community

ah yes, but who is it who actually needs the services of the dojo? mp3 naturally! Why would mp4,5,6 people need to study rituals and ask for help... They're already experienced players, they should be the teachers not the students, wouldn't you agree? the mp3 problem is the only problem relevant to the dojo, regarding the predators

A funny story... I am attacked frequently and almost exclusively in the so called dojo Without my permission, needless to say. This is going on for weeks. You, my friends, harbour predators I'm a bit stronger now, so losses are always welcome, but the principle of the thing... And please, no advices like "you should report" etc., as I said I don't mind the occasional loss, I'm just saying that it happens almost every time and always by a different person. It's almost more dangerous than the outside of willow's shop. Cheers

Hi again, here's a little update... For several days I relocated myself to the fenth's press sanctuary... It seems to be the place where more of the non-english speaking players tend to hang out, and chat is usually minimal. However from time to time there have been considerable chat concentrations, shall I say In one such occurrence, one person, who is a seasoned player to say in the least, has come to the sanctuary to clearly sacrifice some of his creatures... During that time he has used the chat to do some roleplaying, in form of invoking the gods to accept his sacrifice. I have recognized this as an opportunity to do some roleplaying of my own, and I have decided to cut in on his little sacrifice ritual I proceeded to explain that it's just a machine and that it performs its function without any touch of the divine... During this, I have emphasized that I am in fact playing my role, and had hoped to squeeze out some cooperation from a player that has clearly put some effort into his own role... Needless to say, I was disappointed. The player took only brief notice of my comments, and has explained that I have my own theory of the press, and that he has his. This was the last second he alone wasted on me, and has proceeded to talk with other old players who happened to be at the same place and talked about different beverages one might be able to buy in those "fictional pubs" that the old guard created seemingly for ALL the sanctuary areas, and in which only them seem to participate. And then they proceeded to ask each other where are the other players that are known to participate in this pub scene of theirs... So as you can see, despite the best of my efforts, MD is a very very bad place for even trying to cut in on any form of roleplay that already exists in it, let alone starting a trend of your own. Sorry new players, you just do battle and walk the Earth, and do what you will, but play your roles you shall not signed: the old guard --- Tarquinus: I enjoyed your post very much, and you have said many interesting things, but your argument is basically this (pardon me if I misunderstood) - "have fun. the system is there. if it's not fun for you, what are you doing here?". Again, excuse me if I turned your message into some kind of a radical variant, but one can't help escape get this kind of message Also, you emphasize the depth of one's character, and that you alone have to immerse yourself into your role and this world and that that's the only thing you really have to worry about. I disagree completely. I'm not sure if you read all the post since my initial question, but I have taken great pains to portray the very atmosphere of the MD world, one that not only makes it hard to play one's role, but is downright overwhelmingly inhibitive to even think about being absorbed into the "system" of RP

[quote name='Cirith' post='17913' date='Oct 5 2008, 01:50 PM']PS: You may consider using bigger numbers thousands are an insignificant number of people.[/quote] I'm just being honest about my own experience Perhaps another rarity amongst the dominant internet community...

[quote name='Cirith' post='17910' date='Oct 5 2008, 12:34 PM']The internet won`t change for you so ignore them or accept them, they won`t disappear from informal internet conservations.[/quote] Nor do I expect the internet to change for me, as I have said no such thing. And it's not a question of the internet, but the people, and I can tell you there are thousands who do not use them, and thousands more who certainly [b][u]do not[/u][/b] consider them to be a mandatory form internet communication, as you do

Hi all... As there is no detailed description of this forum, I'll make my own post here and introduce myself... I've done this at the "Say Hello" topic, but I'll rather do it here (as the "primary" introduction) because I think the role I have made for myself best suits the concept of the realm known as Golemus So, here's my story, it looks quite long, but it really isn't that huge, the eye is quicker than the pen I'm sure you'll agree I had written this story of mine before I started exploring the forum, so I'm glad to see that several elements from my concept corresponds with certain MD concepts, particularly those of Golemus. There are also some concepts in my story that might enrich the future development of Golemus and all the MD world, some of those being an outer-dimensional invasion, (truly) sentient independent machines, personal magic augmentation etc... Regarding the style of writing, the story has some elements of a dialogue, where I as the storyteller respond to your (you as my inquisitive companion) fictional responses and questions. I triend not to make it too much narrative and dry... Hope I succeeded... I should also point out that I have been somewhat (heavily haha) influenced by the Warhammer fantasy and 40k worlds, so bare with me if you're not a fan... It's really a minor influence on the story. So, here it is, hope you like it, and I would very much enjoy feedback, either in form of modification suggestion or downright merciless criticism Thank you for your patience... And I repeat, don't let the apparent length scare you, it's 10mins tops [b]Peace and prosperity to you traveller! My greeting is strange to you? Yes, my friend, I see how you would have seldomly heard it in these orderless lands... You are interested in more of my story? Haha, you are an inquisitive one aren’t you... I like that... Come! Sit with me, and I shall tell you all you want to know... I think you might want to try some of this... Drink, it won’t bite! Well perhaps it will... Hahaha, strong isn’t it? Don’t be embarassed, few is the hero who can gulp down a cup of my home brew and live to tell the tale haha! Where is home exactly? Ahhh that is a long story... If you’ll believe it! I, my friend, am not of this world... You don’t seem surprised? My name sounds foreign to these lands? Haha aye, that it is! I was named after the God-Smiths of old, creators of all worlds, venerated in the Golden Halls of my glorious nation for countless millenia... What is it? You seem pale? Have some more brew hahaha! No, I have not decended from the heavens, fear not my friend, I shall tell you more of this world. It is... beautiful... Vast and bustling with diversity, as if the God-Smiths manifest their wildest imagination... It is a masterpiece of the Gods, verily! Oh, mountains of marble cutting the clouds, forests of borders unending, seas of depths unimaginable... But for all its beauty, it holds in its crown a jewel more shining than any other... It holds – order. I am of a proud and mighty people, created by the God-Smiths to bring stability, balance and ultimately peace, to all living things. To us there is no promise more rewarding, no goal more valuable than the veneration of order. For millenia, we marched towards our eternal goal, though it be by word or weapon, our number never diminishing, our road never straying, our Imperium spanned all continents! The skies themselves were conquered, as our passion for creation and innovation consumes us from our mother’s wombs themselves. It is by this divine nature that we have subjugated all creation! Or so we thought... Bah, enough history! I’ll come to that later, I see you wish to know more about my people... We seem strange to you, dont we? I suppose I understand... It is hard to imagine a world with a single purpose, devoid of conflict, a global society unified under a single Imperium, a state of complete order, of perpetual peace and prosperity... a condition of... perfection... I am sorry, my thoughts often wander to home... Yes, I shall tell you more about me and my people! I was born a millenium ago, in the great southern Forge-city of Vulcan. I know this must not mean anything to you, as you have heard of no such thing... But you do not understand! We are bound to our origin as the Gods are bound to their creation! It is a source of great pride...and comfort... for my people, knowing where one comes from, that one has a legion of brethren behind him whatever one might encounter. Ahh, if you could see Vulcan... Its great crimson towers, seen from a sea away... It’s Golden Halls, dwellings of the God-Smiths, oh how they glisten in the morning Suns. The sound of a million hammers as they fall in the vast forges of the Lower City... Why, the ground itself trembles as the Gods smile upon their worthy children! Still I wander, my apologies, friend... You see, the Forging is a holy matter for us of Vulcan. For the patronage of the mighty God-Smith Vaul, Creator Of The Mountains, we pay a daily tribute of forging a million hammers, the holy symbol of our Patron. Each day a million hammers are forged by the million of the day before... This is our sacred wow, the banner of my culture, the duty of all our ancestors that have passed and all our children to come. Judge us not too harshly haha, we are a serious folk, driven by duty and honour, but we enjoy leisure just as much! Famed is our passion for our brews, and legendary are our skills at the Grath’koral, ritual dance of Vulcan! Many are the moonless nights when the Azure Dancers mocked the dark hahaha... And it is where my life comes to focus, as I bear the most holy of the Sacred Duties of Vulcan... I am born an aristocrat. Yes, I was named after our Patron God, as is custom with all first sons of the First Noble House. Fathered by the Praetor of Vulcan, I was destined to become first of the city’s nobility. My childhood was typical of our Caste, I was instructed in the Forging by the most acomplished of Craftsmen, thought of the ancient Songs by the most expensive of Tellers...I shan’t bore you with the details of Vulcan upbringing-What? You want to hear one of the Songs? Very well, a short one perhaps...Ah yes, this was sung by my venerable mother at my bedside, I shall try and translate it for you: “[i]Love the Emperor, For he is the salvation of Mankind. Obey His words, for He will lead you into the light of the future. Heed His wisdom, for He will protect you from evil. Whisper His prayers with devotion, for they will salve your soul. Honour His servants, for they speak in His voice. Tremble before His majesty, for we all walk in His immortal shadow.[/i]” Hahaha, not very poetic, is it? Yes, I know what you mean, we are not a very poetic people haha! It is an Imperial hymn, sung to all our children throughout our world. Mankind? It’s a translation of the literall term “Children of the Smiths”, but that would ruin it, wouldn’t you agree? Who is the Emperor? He is the protector of our glorious Imperium and leads our nation from the beginning of the Imperial Age. He Who Stands With The God-Smiths he is called, conqueror of all continents, the Bringer of Order... If we were in my world, we would both be kissing the ground in veneration at the mention of His holy person... But we’re not, are we? Hahaha here, have another sip of my brew, to get us through the night! The night is young, my friend, drink haha! Ah, His Imperial Majesty... Few have seen Him... or should I say “It”. Legend says that he has been mortal once, like you and me... Yes, I know I am ancient compared to creatures of this world, but I assure you, for all our long life we have come to know death on countless occassions. For as we do not wither and fade as you, we are still of fragile form and can be broken. We devised ways of mending our broken forms, and I myself have seen the veterans from the ancient Holy Wars, more metal than flesh, mindless, monstruous forms blessed...or cursed...to serve the Imperium for all ages. I was one of the selected few who would see His Majesty. When I came of age and forged my own Hammer, I left for the Imperial Capitol to study the arts of politics... You see, we of Vulcan are rarely seen within the realms of August Councils and High Courts, as we are at our best within the Holy Forges, mending broken forms or building anew, ever tinkering, ever devising how to improve all forms of creation. Alas, I was of noble blood, and as such destined to commune with all of the Imperium, as our global society is a vast balanced machine, and we are all singular parts, but none of us a whole. For centuries I have studied in the White Halls of Law, learning methods how to direct the hearts of men, giving them purpose by ensuring their unity... These are the Sermons of our Beloved Emperor, and I have come to wisdom. But my heart was not satisified. I yearned for more, the intangible form of Imperial Law did not fulfill my soul as it was required to... As I have later learned, I have heard the Calling of my mighty Patron... My heart was drawn to the manipulation of forms, not the minds... I resigned form the White Halls, much to my father’s furious objection. I look back today and think that he might have understood my choice better than anyone then... He must have heard the Call many a time during the centuries of his noble duty to the Imperium... My place at the White Halls was taken by my brother centuries later, whose path I have not come to witness, to my regret, but I hasten too much... My life has taken quite a different turn, oh yes, very different. As I said, I was well versed in the arts of the Holy Forging of Vulcan, but this was not the only school of Forging... No, there were many arts venerating the manipulation of forms, the highest of them in the Imperial Capitol, the Silver Halls of Forging. It was reputed that the Silver Masters forged life itself, perhaps tapping into the powers of the very God-smiths! Oh, I was young and eager, hungry for power and knowledge, and there was much to be had, my friend, much that could be learned, much still waiting to be discovered... I have since learned that little glory comes without a heavy price. Be that as it may, I embarked on a voyage that would bring me to this very table, spekaing to you now. It was 7 centuries ago, by our reckoning, by yours I would amount it to twice that number. Alas, the Silver Halls were closed to me, as I have forfited my noble claim to a position within the Capitol’s great learning centres... I would have to earn my position... And so decades passed, and I travelled the vast and glorious Imperium, taking to study within all the great Forge-Cities... I have mastered the arts of Earth Divination, as I could sense the divine matter from wich all Forging takes purpose as well as method. I befriended the Soul-Smiths of Vior, great Forge-City of the North. Such was their craft that I learned to bind my own living essence to that of my forgelings! What a horrible spectacle that was, to share existence with one’s own creation, making it breathe as you yourself breathe... Making it feel as you fell... I feared and respected these crafts, but as much as they gave me power so did they give me my purpose, for I felt the Calling was never stronger than it was before. Yes, I was at my best back then.... My knowledge of the Forging Arts was never richer, but there was still one more barrier to cross, the creation of life... Soul-binding was an imitation of life, as the forgeling lived only as long as its creator, serving him in a mindless state... To truly touch the divine, a Craftsman must ignite the fires of life within the creation itself... Such awesome power was beyond my reckonig, for all the wonders I have witnessed, for all the powers I held at my command, I was but a hubmle mortal under the heavens of the Gods, with but a suptle glimpse of their unfathomable essence. Have I bored you, my frined? Or has the brew gotten to your wits! Hahaha it’ll do that, aye! Easy now, slowly... Continue? Haha you’re a sturdy one! My father would have enjoyed your company at our table, as I live and breathe! Yes, I can continue, if you can...hahaha.... As I was saying, almost a century passed and I earned my postition in the Imperial Capitol’s Silver Halls of Forging, by recommendation of my worthy Mentors. This was my brightest hour, to come to the Capitol once again and find glory that has forsaken me for so long... The glory that was my birthright, only this time it was not awarded to me... I had conquered it myself! Hahaha the arrogance! The youth! Yes youth, for our people is a mighty breed, and centuries pass with little baring on our forms. You look pale again, my friend, ahaha! So I was, centuries ago, enternig the Silver Halls to take my place amongst the High Creators of the Imperium, the Silver Masters. But I was ahead of myself, as always. The Rites of Ascension were many and each more rigorous that the last... Life was hard in the Halls, colleagues non-cooperative to say in the least, and the Mentors... If I had my way with them, the Masters would be hard-pressed to glue them back together, aye! Decades still passed, mere moments to my kind, but countless eternities for myself, as I have suffered a thousand pains through each of the Rites... But I held my own, and reached the end... It was a good day, and I now praise my Mentors, for they thought me lessions that proved most valuable for the trials ahead of me... I remember a maxim that my old Mentor, Sulimo, dictated continuosly: “[i]Death and pain are illusions of the weak mind[/i]”. I sometimes wonder if Sulimo was granted the gifts of the Seers, who were reputed to divine the God-Smiths’ mechanisms that underly the surface of existence... Gibberish?! Now I know the brew has invaded your blood! Ha, yes, I suppose it does sound like gibberish, although I would rather you used the term “foreign”. No worries, my friend, no offense is taken. So, I finished my Ascencion, and I was on my way to unravelling the secrets of the Silver Masters. I found that what I had previously learned, little did it apply in my education to come... The Masters, it seems, have taken quite a different approach to interpretation of the Divine Creation. I was reluctant to accept these new teachings, but I soon found that as they unlocked hidden poperties of material forms, so did they unlock various properties of the living forms as well. I started to percieve matter combinations as a singular entities, not comprised of different parts, but as if every divided part of realitiy was in itself somehow unique, as one rock is not even remotely simmilar to any other rock in the whole of Creation. Many students of these Deep Arts took badly to its teachings, as it was taking a toll on their souls, draining them, diminishing them... It is under these pressures that we came to truly understand our mortality, a revelation not frequently achieved since the ancient Holy Wars. Yet, I persevered, may it have claimed my spirit, I would have conquered its secrets! As I progressed in my learnings, and as more and more of my colleagues fell to the madness, I was being initiated into the more shadowy circles of the academy... Ah, you’re back! I got your attention now, don’t I? Hahaha, to tell you the truth, I was getting a little “under the influence” myself, arrrgh, we’re closing on the bottom of the flask! This would be a most sad day in Vulcan ahahahaha, eh, I’ll make more tomorrow! Where was I? Ah yes, the secrets of the Halls... It was about this time that I met the first of the Silver Masters themselves... Glorious creatures... Huge, almost lumbering, statues of men, embeded by the metals they commanded, bound to them by forces unknown to scholarship, augmenting them in ways mysterious, transforming them to a Holy Relic of the God-Smiths, a conduit of their unimaginable power. What? My hand is shaking? Bah, it must be the brew! The bottom tends to be hard on the bones! Ah, the Masters, so valuable was their gift to me... So damned for it I was... You see, they saw in me the potential for greatness, perhaps even the ability to surpass their efforts in a particular area of Forging. This was known amongst them as Reality Transcendence... I shall not trouble you with the technicalities of the matter, it is sufficed to say that the Masters found Reality to be composed of infinite layers, each one different but at the same time simmilar, having the same principles of function as the other one, as they were all of the same Creators, praise the God-Smiths in their wisdom! You have a glimpse of these inter-reality links in form of your “Magic”, and this world, albeit a pale comparison to the beauty of my own, is blessed by the Smiths and I venerate it. How I came to this world? Yes, yes, I’m getting to it, enhance your calm my friend! Patience is the mark of divinity, so say the Seers of Vulcan... ... Oh... Well, the Seers wouldn’t have liked to hear that, my friend, not at all ahahahaha... Back to the Masters, shall we? As they became aware of countless realities, they devised ways to explore them... With their God-Craft, they amplified the abilities of Seers to sense the properties of these different layers of reality. They were each found to contain complexity as much as our own, filled with creation and forms in infinite combinations... For centuries the Silver Masters archived this information, revealing countless worlds in all their countless forms... But they were all revealed to have one ovewhelming flaw... They were without – order. In their search, the Masters sought to find the Primary Reality, a state of absolute order, a source of perfection, the Heavens as they called it, and indeed such a place was simmilary imagined and called in many worlds. But they found none. The closest to the ideal of perfect order as they could find was their own world, where all creation coexisted in peace and prosperity, the Sacred Balance... It was because of this that the Masters factioned on the matter. Some believed that the Heavens were yet to be found, but some, like my own Mentors, came to believe that our world was the Primary Reality, the source of all layers. In their arrogance, however, they went furhter, and professed to spread this state of perfection onto other worlds. It was said that the Emperor himself sanctioned their efforts, an incentive that I have come to doubt over the years... Form this philosophy they took to devising a means of transportation between the layers, via portals that could be manipulated by the highest Arts of Forging. Having spent centuries upon centuries of researchng and archiving, they were ready for testing... And this, my friend, is where I come to the story. Hailing as the brightest student of the Silver Halls, the Masters selected me for their hope in transgressing the Barrier, the great division between layers of reality. Imagine the glory that would be mine, to carry the banner of our Imperium to other worlds! To see our Blessed Emperor bring order and peace to all of the Divine Creation! Things, however, turned out to be a lot less glorious for me... You see, for all their wisdom and craft, the Silver Masters could not forsee the effects of the transgression process, and if things went badly a replacement would be easily found... If things went according to plan, I could be counted on to carry it out perfectly. Half to half, good odds for any son of Vulcan ahaha! Why this world, you ask? It was selected because of two things... Firstly, and by now you might yourself guess, it was the utter absence of order! The Masters sent several “emissaries”, as we were called, and I was their brightest hope... so I was sent to what was percieved the worst of the discovered worlds. Hahaha take no offense my friend, the radical mind is seldomly gracious in its assesement of things haha. You must try to fully understand the mind of the Silver Masters, they are ancient creatures detached from their origins... They have evolved past compassion! The most powerful thing that remains under their augmented shells is dogma! And behind dogma there is always fear, for they fear what they can't control! The other reason why I am here is the unusual occurance of the God-Smiths' manifestation... Your “Magic” is a unique pehnomena amongst the discovered worlds, and this intrigues the High Creators... In it they see chaos, and where there is chaos, they will soon shape order... It is their purpose. You tremble, friend. Perhaps you should... For if anything is certain, it is that their graces the Silver Masters, High Creators of the Imperium, know not defeat, nor reluctance, they do not tire nor does their resolve ever fade... Rest assured, my friend, they are coming... Arrgh, I'm ruining the mood! And you're right, I did skip ahead of myself, yet again! Well I came here through the portal the Masters forged in the Silver Halls of the Imperial Capitol... The transgression was a terrible ordeal, it was as if my mind was violently separated from my form, and then as if a deeper essence of me was further separated from what remained of my mind... Like shattering glass one might call it, and the thousands of pieces of my being were splintering, dividing infinitely... and then it all stopped! In a momment it all ceased as instantly as it began, and I found myself in a wooden structure of some sort, barely material, barely conscious, barely...alive, I suppose. As if a spirit... Yes, that was long ago, and not shortly afterwards did I find myself already affected by this “Magic” that consumes this world, walking the thin line between the material and the immaterial... Such...disorder... Needless to say, my form adapted to your reality, and I found most of my hard-learned abilities lost to the nature of your world. I wonder if the Masters forsaw such an effect... You're not asking why am I still here... Well, as I might have hinted before, the trangression went wrong... terribly wrong... Although few things might be considered “wrong”, after my experience... Let's say it went...unpredictably... So what do we do now, my frined? You know my story, I am, in essence, trapped in this this reality, waiting for someone to locate me, to return me to my world... If it can be done at all.. How do you think one might help it? Should I try and make myself famed? Perhaps imbue myself in your songs and legends, make my name known throughout all your realms... attempt to draw attention of the noble Seers? I wonder... yes, there might be a lot that might help my “entrappement”... hmmm... Don't get me wrong, my friend, I like your world! It has beauty of its own, and complexity that would intrigue the most scholarly of minds... And this Magic is infinitely baffling to one such as I, ignorant and foreign to it as you might find yourself to the countless wonders of my home... And I never did achieve my first and last of ambitions, the secret of cretaing life itself! The divine bonding of the material and the immaterial to produce the blessing of the God-Smiths, oh imagine the possibilities! Perhaps the Magic could... Friend? Hahaha, the brew has taken you finally! Truthfully, I was beginning to think you would best even myself! You are of sturdy making as well, cretures of this world... Perhaps there is good reason the Masters should fear you! Sleep, my friend, sleep well, for morrow brings new stories! And new BREW ahahaha, aye! Now, where did I find that special ingridient... [/b]

Hi Liberty... I agree to some extent with you, as I also have some problems understanding people's expression from time to time... I'm Croatian, like you, but all my life I have studied English and have spent some time in Britain studying, so English has never been a problem for me. What I do have a problem with are the abbreviations. Those damned 2-3 letter constructions that everybody use to convey their who knows what in the worst form of communication imaginable. When I see the XY abbreviation, not only do I don't want to reply, but I want to run far away. Well, this is my own (rather radical) opinion, but really, I know everybody has internet these days, and everybody hangs around hundreds of forums where this form of communication evolved in the first place... BUT IT'S NOT EVERYBODY! I observed that abbreviations is mostly used by Americans, and the rest of the English-speaking world, but the world is HUGE people, and owning internet does not mean you are assimilated into the anglo-american adolescent internet culture by default! That's all I have to say

Glaistig, I couldn't have said it better myself. I agree completely, and while I see no alternative to the trend that has evolved and is deeply established in the MD community, I agree that it is a great shame and is in my opinion even damaging to what I think was the original concept... Also, the MD creator has obviously put a lot of emphasis on the revolutinonary originality of the game... I am somewhat disappointed that the gamers did not take this burden on themselves as the creator did.

[quote name='Liberty4life' post='17740' date='Oct 3 2008, 09:45 AM']give us a real example of this chat thats going on and to you seams not understandable so then i will see what the problem is and try to explain you some things i think it is just because you yet dont know lots of players, you dont know what shorthand (like ve, vp, etc) means, and you are familiar with AL and other players stories and their behavior[/quote] I've given a few examples, but that's not really the point. The point is that I it is very difficult for new players to catch up with the existing system, and that the system is such that I don't even want to catch up, you see?

I couldn't resist responding to this thread again A bit more about the chat... I appreciate having fun, it bonds the players and creates an atmosphere which makes people want to play, entering the community etc... But I have to say that a system has been formed by the older players. A system of chatting that is specific and very hard to cope with, especially when you're new. I dare say to such an extent that people don't really want to participate. The "old guard" have their stories, their jokes, they seem to know each other's whereabouts at all times (as every second question is "where is XX?", and every second answer is "he's over at the paper house", or something similar), and I'm not going to repeat the quality of the "RP", which I think is very poor. But be that as it may - it is dominant, it is established, it is a system that new players must conform to, under threat of being ignored completely. Sure, you'll get an answer or to, a few reactions, if you're persistent with your comments - but if you don't play along with the current scene...you get the picture. This is of course natural for games that form player communities, but unfortunately in this specific game the community has formed something that in my opinion hasn't to do much with the world we're all in, it has to do just with the community itself, and its specific details that are shared only by its relatively few participants. I myself really don't want to participate in the chat - such as it is. I will have fun, and communicate, but my RP is unfortunately quite unwelcome in the current "system" of chatting. What am I supposed to do then? I don't want to get on the bad side of anyone with this, but i think that this phenomena might be something worth looking into.