Aysun

[quote name='Pipstickz' date='27 May 2010 - 04:34 PM' timestamp='1274996043' post='60482']
"The cube is created AROUND" Suggests that you were there, then the cube was added. The cube is not natural, but it says nothing about the person it contains.
[/quote]

If the cube is unnatural but created from our own self limitations, our limitations, although created by us, would still be organic if we were the organic things that made them. If the cube is inorganic, it could be argued that something inorganic also created it, meaning that the maps of one's soul that lies within the inner walls of the cube is also of an inorganic nature, for how could something truly organic be held back by something that is inorganic? You're not really trapped in the synthetic clothes you wear, as you can remove, or rip out of them (whichever you prefer ), at any time, whereas within this cube we are very much stuck. I think that there are many ways to argue this, however.


[quote name='Burns' date='27 May 2010 - 04:43 PM' timestamp='1274996612' post='60484']
http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/5784-forum-rules/page__view__findpost__p__48452

Just as a reminder, all of us should have read those rules some time

Apart from that, i'm fine with alts that don't abuse the system and don't start to force their (copied) 'stories' on MD.
There's... 10 of these, at best.

There are also very few people who have the time, and brain capacity, to play two different accounts well.
Those are the only alts worth being supported.

The others... waste serverspace. And annoy me, personally, to no end.

You also have to be careful with your opinions, MD is an RPG.
We are NOT ourselves when we log in, we play a character. Some very smart people are capable of creating more than 1 character for the same game. A lot more tried and failed, but the potential failure shouldn't ban them from the try imo. They give up some time anyways^^
[/quote]

Ah. Well my suggestion for a separate forum account for alts was to remove the conspicuous absence of that other anonymous character's presence in the forum. If someone becomes a major player in the land but is clearly absent here, suspicions could be aroused. That was all.

As for saying that we are not ourselves- surely we are a [i]facet[/i] of ourselves when we step into a place like MD. That facet, although just a fragment, is still a part of ourselves. We can't create what we are not already, and that in itself has numerous implications. Also, the longer an entity exists, it only becomes a more concentrated form of itself. I think the long-time players of MD will admit that there is a large difference between their portrayal of themselves in the beginning and their portrayal of themselves now. I feel that such a thing is natural, but in creating multiple accounts that sort of progression is thwarted in favour of a safety buffer against loss, thus heralding that dreaded one-dimensionality I mentioned earlier.

[quote name='Pipstickz' date='27 May 2010 - 04:34 PM' timestamp='1274996043' post='60482']
"The cube is created AROUND" Suggests that you were there, then the cube was added. The cube is not natural, but it says nothing about the person it contains.
[/quote]

If the cube is unnatural but created from our own self limitations, our limitations, although created by us, would still be organic if we were the organic things that made them. If the cube is inorganic, it could be argued that something inorganic also created it, meaning that the maps of one's soul that lies within the inner walls of the cube is also of an inorganic nature, for how could something truly organic be held back by something that is inorganic? You're not really trapped in the synthetic clothes you wear, as you can remove, or rip out of them (whichever you prefer ), at any time, whereas within this cube we are very much stuck. I think that there are many ways to argue this, however.


[quote name='Burns' date='27 May 2010 - 04:43 PM' timestamp='1274996612' post='60484']
http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/5784-forum-rules/page__view__findpost__p__48452

Just as a reminder, all of us should have read those rules some time

Apart from that, i'm fine with alts that don't abuse the system and don't start to force their (copied) 'stories' on MD.
There's... 10 of these, at best.

There are also very few people who have the time, and brain capacity, to play two different accounts well.
Those are the only alts worth being supported.

The others... waste serverspace. And annoy me, personally, to no end.

You also have to be careful with your opinions, MD is an RPG.
We are NOT ourselves when we log in, we play a character. Some very smart people are capable of creating more than 1 character for the same game. A lot more tried and failed, but the potential failure shouldn't ban them from the try imo. They give up some time anyways^^
[/quote]

Ah. Well my suggestion for a separate forum account for alts was to remove the conspicuous absence of that other anonymous character's presence in the forum. If someone becomes a major player in the land but is clearly absent here, suspicions could be aroused. That was all.

As for saying that we are not ourselves- surely we are a [i]facet[/i] of ourselves when we step into a place like MD. That facet, although just a fragment, is still a part of ourselves. We can't create what we are not already, and that in itself has numerous implications. Also, the longer an entity exists, it only becomes a more concentrated form of itself. I think the long-time players of MD will admit that there is a large difference between their portrayal of themselves in the beginning and their portrayal of themselves now. I feel that such a thing is natural, but in creating multiple accounts that sort of progression is thwarted in favour of a safety buffer against loss, thus heralding that dreaded one-dimensionality I mentioned earlier.

[quote name='Yrthilian' date='27 May 2010 - 03:54 PM' timestamp='1274993687' post='60477']
I am sorry i have to disagree with you here. The creation of ALt's is productive in many ways. Looking at why people create an alt is in its self intresting. I am a vet, withing this system. I happen to also have a larg number of alt accounts and not intencionaly.[/quote]

How do you unintentionally have a large number of alts? That doesn't make any sense. Do you create them in your sleep? This simply isn't possible.

[quote]I can also argue your point about trying thing in real life. I for one have done something simlar in RL that i tried out and then droped. But i could only do it one way.[/quote]

I would argue that you [i]chose[/i] to do it one way, whatever it was, because there is never only ever one option. There is usually a sea of them. Therefore, you limited yourself to a single choice, and that's not what this is about.

[quote]That is to say i did it online. This is in its self a NEW skin using the internet to portray something about you that you dont do in RL. I will say from persional experience with this real i have done things i would not have done in RL but treat what i do here as something i would want to try. I have then been able to adapt myself after testing this change online. So even though in RL i cant change my skin i can how ever do something and decide if i wish to adapt my life to that new way.[/quote]

In the end, it is still you making the choice, and so you've not really shed anything. Most peoples' first characters tend to be the closest to themselves personality and decision-wise. What you're describing is a sim, and I don't think MD is, or is meant to be, a sim in the slightest. It is meant to pull upon what you already know, or don't know and/or realize, in reality in order to affect the situations that have been created here.

[quote]There have been many characters created by a single player look at Mur, KC, Shade sentinal, BigC, Wodin i am sure there are many mkore created that thoes players managed to keep from crossing the line. I know i have 2 other alts that have very little interaction and in no way use the knowledge Yrth has gained.[/quote]

I personally think Mur is a bad example. Mur, as the Creator, really has no choice but to create everything you see around you, including some of the characters you need to interact with in order to progress in the puzzles he lays out for you. I feel he's exempt from this debate. And, if you're one of the ones that's not managed to keep things separate, then my post really wasn't intended for you.

[quote]The whole reason for beeing allowed alts is to try a new path that you decided you would not go with a diffrent character.[/quote]

I already mentioned previously that just making a new character every time you don't want to sacrifice a previous situation in order to move into a new one in the end merely creates a landscape of empty entities that are very one-sided. It is our experiences in many different fields that shapes who we are in an environment, and if we sequester and seal off each separate experience, we've gained nothing but a bunch of facets that cannot work together due to their compartmentalization.

[quote]I also just wanted to say. you mention that the MD cube and us is unnatural. Are you sure what we are in MD in unnatural. I disagree but this i think you need to figure out for yourself
[/quote]

I will quote Mur:

"[i]The cube is the created bx around your soul and mind. [u]It is not a natural construction[/u], or it would have been a sphere.[/i]"

Therefore, we are not organic, and thus I do not think that we as inorganic entities should be able to produce that which is organic unless, of course, as I also said before, that such a paradox is intended to be one of the many mysteries of MD.

[quote name='Pipstickz' date='27 May 2010 - 04:34 PM' timestamp='1274996043' post='60482']
"The cube is created AROUND" Suggests that you were there, then the cube was added. The cube is not natural, but it says nothing about the person it contains.
[/quote]

If the cube is unnatural but created from our own self limitations, our limitations, although created by us, would still be organic if we were the organic things that made them. If the cube is inorganic, it could be argued that something inorganic also created it, meaning that the maps of one's soul that lies within the inner walls of the cube is also of an inorganic nature, for how could something truly organic be held back by something that is inorganic? You're not really trapped in the synthetic clothes you wear, as you can remove, or rip out of them (whichever you prefer ), at any time, whereas within this cube we are very much stuck. I think that there are many ways to argue this, however.


[quote name='Burns' date='27 May 2010 - 04:43 PM' timestamp='1274996612' post='60484']
http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/5784-forum-rules/page__view__findpost__p__48452

Just as a reminder, all of us should have read those rules some time

Apart from that, i'm fine with alts that don't abuse the system and don't start to force their (copied) 'stories' on MD.
There's... 10 of these, at best.

There are also very few people who have the time, and brain capacity, to play two different accounts well.
Those are the only alts worth being supported.

The others... waste serverspace. And annoy me, personally, to no end.

You also have to be careful with your opinions, MD is an RPG.
We are NOT ourselves when we log in, we play a character. Some very smart people are capable of creating more than 1 character for the same game. A lot more tried and failed, but the potential failure shouldn't ban them from the try imo. They give up some time anyways^^
[/quote]

Ah. Well my suggestion for a separate forum account for alts was to remove the conspicuous absence of that other anonymous character's presence in the forum. If someone becomes a major player in the land but is clearly absent here, suspicions could be aroused. That was all.

As for saying that we are not ourselves- surely we are a [i]facet[/i] of ourselves when we step into a place like MD. That facet, although just a fragment, is still a part of ourselves. We can't create what we are not already, and that in itself has numerous implications. Also, the longer an entity exists, it only becomes a more concentrated form of itself. I think the long-time players of MD will admit that there is a large difference between their portrayal of themselves in the beginning and their portrayal of themselves now. I feel that such a thing is natural, but in creating multiple accounts that sort of progression is thwarted in favour of a safety buffer against loss, thus heralding that dreaded one-dimensionality I mentioned earlier.

[quote name='Yrthilian' date='27 May 2010 - 03:54 PM' timestamp='1274993687' post='60477']
I am sorry i have to disagree with you here. The creation of ALt's is productive in many ways. Looking at why people create an alt is in its self intresting. I am a vet, withing this system. I happen to also have a larg number of alt accounts and not intencionaly.[/quote]

How do you unintentionally have a large number of alts? That doesn't make any sense. Do you create them in your sleep? This simply isn't possible.

[quote]I can also argue your point about trying thing in real life. I for one have done something simlar in RL that i tried out and then droped. But i could only do it one way.[/quote]

I would argue that you [i]chose[/i] to do it one way, whatever it was, because there is never only ever one option. There is usually a sea of them. Therefore, you limited yourself to a single choice, and that's not what this is about.

[quote]That is to say i did it online. This is in its self a NEW skin using the internet to portray something about you that you dont do in RL. I will say from persional experience with this real i have done things i would not have done in RL but treat what i do here as something i would want to try. I have then been able to adapt myself after testing this change online. So even though in RL i cant change my skin i can how ever do something and decide if i wish to adapt my life to that new way.[/quote]

In the end, it is still you making the choice, and so you've not really shed anything. Most peoples' first characters tend to be the closest to themselves personality and decision-wise. What you're describing is a sim, and I don't think MD is, or is meant to be, a sim in the slightest. It is meant to pull upon what you already know, or don't know and/or realize, in reality in order to affect the situations that have been created here.

[quote]There have been many characters created by a single player look at Mur, KC, Shade sentinal, BigC, Wodin i am sure there are many mkore created that thoes players managed to keep from crossing the line. I know i have 2 other alts that have very little interaction and in no way use the knowledge Yrth has gained.[/quote]

I personally think Mur is a bad example. Mur, as the Creator, really has no choice but to create everything you see around you, including some of the characters you need to interact with in order to progress in the puzzles he lays out for you. I feel he's exempt from this debate. And, if you're one of the ones that's not managed to keep things separate, then my post really wasn't intended for you.

[quote]The whole reason for beeing allowed alts is to try a new path that you decided you would not go with a diffrent character.[/quote]

I already mentioned previously that just making a new character every time you don't want to sacrifice a previous situation in order to move into a new one in the end merely creates a landscape of empty entities that are very one-sided. It is our experiences in many different fields that shapes who we are in an environment, and if we sequester and seal off each separate experience, we've gained nothing but a bunch of facets that cannot work together due to their compartmentalization.

[quote]I also just wanted to say. you mention that the MD cube and us is unnatural. Are you sure what we are in MD in unnatural. I disagree but this i think you need to figure out for yourself
[/quote]

I will quote Mur:

"[i]The cube is the created bx around your soul and mind. [u]It is not a natural construction[/u], or it would have been a sphere.[/i]"

Therefore, we are not organic, and thus I do not think that we as inorganic entities should be able to produce that which is organic unless, of course, as I also said before, that such a paradox is intended to be one of the many mysteries of MD.

In my experience, if you're truly going to implement an alt character, or a "second" (or even a "third") as I've grown accustomed to calling them, it is absolutely best to not even let on that you are someone else that everyone already knows.

If you're out to be a new person, [i]be[/i] that new person- why do they have to know you are also so-and-so?

Be anonymous. Be so anonymous that you even have a separate forum account that is its own entity also.

I'm sure some are already doing things like this, but it seems the more well-known players are more keen on advertising the fact that they have yet again created someone new to the very heavens themselves instead of getting into a role, picking a path, and letting others around you respond to [i]that[/i] new entity instead of according to their preconceptions of a previous incarnation that may or may not still walk the land.

Carrying biases over from one account to another is also extremely counter productive, I think. Unless, of course, your plan is to go to the ultimate extreme with it. Another problem is creating a new entity that is naturally at odds with your main/original character. If you create someone new, they should most likely not cross paths at all in any sense, and yes I think that's possible- it would be one of the challenges of playing a new role.

However, in the end, what I really think should happen is this: There should be no alts/seconds/thirds. You are yourself as you enter into MagicDuel, and you decide where you go and what you do and when you do it. When you want to try something totally new, do you, in real life, get to shed your skin and step into a new one just so you don't lose what you already have? No. You decide if the new thing, whatever it is, is really worth it, and you [i]make sacrifices[/i] to go a new way. This, I feel, is what gives a person, a character, depth and history that is vital to a long-surviving realm such as this. If everyone just creates a new account whenever they want to try this or that out, we are merely left with a land full of shallow, one-dimensional entities that are unable to be learned from without them crossing lines and using knowledge from another account to aide and abet another one.

Child bearing, in any other setting, could work, I think. But in MD, we are all technically man-made entities within a cube that have somehow garnered a mind of our own, so how can something unnatural commit something so natural as conceiving and giving birth? I think it goes against the ethics and mechanics of the place to be able to cause something like that. Love is possible as you find other entities like unto yourself. Marriage, sure. But I don't feel that, here, you can create something organic from that which is inorganic, unless of course such a thing is yet another mystery in this great land.


[u]disclaimer[/u]: Before my own opinions arouse any sort of suspicion about myself, I'd like to step outside of things and say, formally, that I will never have any sort of alt (for I'd be a hypocrite if I did, after saying what I have above), or have ever existed previously, in MD. I'm merely another new face in the crowed, and my opinions here are based on my observations thus far in exploring and traveling through MD.

In my experience, if you're truly going to implement an alt character, or a "second" (or even a "third") as I've grown accustomed to calling them, it is absolutely best to not even let on that you are someone else that everyone already knows.

If you're out to be a new person, [i]be[/i] that new person- why do they have to know you are also so-and-so?

Be anonymous. Be so anonymous that you even have a separate forum account that is its own entity also.

I'm sure some are already doing things like this, but it seems the more well-known players are more keen on advertising the fact that they have yet again created someone new to the very heavens themselves instead of getting into a role, picking a path, and letting others around you respond to [i]that[/i] new entity instead of according to their preconceptions of a previous incarnation that may or may not still walk the land.

Carrying biases over from one account to another is also extremely counter productive, I think. Unless, of course, your plan is to go to the ultimate extreme with it. Another problem is creating a new entity that is naturally at odds with your main/original character. If you create someone new, they should most likely not cross paths at all in any sense, and yes I think that's possible- it would be one of the challenges of playing a new role.

However, in the end, what I really think should happen is this: There should be no alts/seconds/thirds. You are yourself as you enter into MagicDuel, and you decide where you go and what you do and when you do it. When you want to try something totally new, do you, in real life, get to shed your skin and step into a new one just so you don't lose what you already have? No. You decide if the new thing, whatever it is, is really worth it, and you [i]make sacrifices[/i] to go a new way. This, I feel, is what gives a person, a character, depth and history that is vital to a long-surviving realm such as this. If everyone just creates a new account whenever they want to try this or that out, we are merely left with a land full of shallow, one-dimensional entities that are unable to be learned from without them crossing lines and using knowledge from another account to aide and abet another one.

Child bearing, in any other setting, could work, I think. But in MD, we are all technically man-made entities within a cube that have somehow garnered a mind of our own, so how can something unnatural commit something so natural as conceiving and giving birth? I think it goes against the ethics and mechanics of the place to be able to cause something like that. Love is possible as you find other entities like unto yourself. Marriage, sure. But I don't feel that, here, you can create something organic from that which is inorganic, unless of course such a thing is yet another mystery in this great land.


[u]disclaimer[/u]: Before my own opinions arouse any sort of suspicion about myself, I'd like to step outside of things and say, formally, that I will never have any sort of alt (for I'd be a hypocrite if I did, after saying what I have above), or have ever existed previously, in MD. I'm merely another new face in the crowed, and my opinions here are based on my observations thus far in exploring and traveling through MD.