Aysun

Consider the missing two months completed. I'll be compiling the last of my books of days hopefully by next weekend since I'll have to type out everything by hand- I'm not at home at the moment but out of town for a doctor's appointment. A week and a half after that my editing and formatting should be finished and I'll submit the finished product to the powers that be- I'm assuming Rendril since this will have to do with MD coding.

Hey guys- just as I was ready to start compiling properly, finals hit, and then the holidays. I've been compiling old books using my university library that have world events of the days- some of the books dating very old- that I've been collecting to use for the days where information's been hard to find. Z, if you'd like to work with me to help in compiling and formatting, I could certainly use it. I'll go ahead and send you a PM. Again, sorry for the delay- real life's a bitch. -A

I agree with everything that's already been said, so I'll just go ahead and add the time consumption issue- It was projected that the awards ceremony would take up two hours, and I was prepared for that, but instead it ended up running for near three full hours and mostly because people wanted to goof off in a setting with a large audience and undercut the awards staff, which was neither fair to grido, dst, and the others, nor to the rest of the audience who was very quietly waiting for things to proceed- often times taking over five minutes to get to the next category after the acceptance speech was made. Perhaps something should be made for the suppression of superfluous comments during the ceremony- as in the location becomes a forced silence one where only the award givers and the receivers can speak at the appropriate times, in order to fall within the proper allotted time and not go over or waste time in the future.

My friend and I borrowed this from a website and made some various changes to the recipe, otherwise the original can be found [url=http://www.syvum.com/cgi/online/serve.cgi/recipes/easy/cookev3.tdf?0]here[/url]. Vegetarian Indian Curry- approved by a very dear friend of mine from Pakistan. 2 tablespoons olive oil 1/2 teaspoon ground cumin powder 4 medium red potatoes unpeeled and cubed small. 1/2 teaspoon turmeric powder 1 teaspoon onion powder (also add to taste) 1 teaspoon coriander powder 1/2 teaspoon hot spice mix (garam masala) 2 tomatoes chopped 1/3 small yellow onion sliced 1 cup water salt to taste (the tomatoes will really suck up the salt so watch out) 1) Heat the oil in a heavy bottomed pan. 2) Add the potato cubes along with the dry spices and salt. Mix well. Cook until the potatoes are cooked and somewhat shrunk. 3) Add the chopped tomatoes, sliced onion, and water. 4) Cook covered stirring at intervals, on medium to medium-high heat for about 7-10 minutes. 5) Boil down uncovered, stirring periodically, until the liquid is at a consistency to your liking. 6) Pour over cooked basmati rice and enjoy!! Curry, as I know it, is not meant to be like weird yellowish water. It should have some thickness to it. My friend says her family adds a bit of flour to the curry as a thickener, but we discovered, in making this, that if you let it boil down some, taking it off the heat and letting it cool a little will bring it to the right consistency. To a degree, this is trial and error at first, but you really can't hurt the curry as you try. This recipe originally called for a mango paste which we were unable to find. Instead we used hot mango relish as a side item to the finished curry(I *think* it's mango chutney but I could be very wrong about this). The brand is Patak's, extra hot, and if you live in the US you should be able to get this at your local grocery store (we got ours at Publix). It's really an AMAZING relish to use on the side- all you need is a pinch of it on the side, scoop a little on your spoon, grab a spoonful of rice and curry, and it's delicious! So, I really highly recommend it! ------------------------------------------ Punjabi homestyle basmati rice, serving two. 1 cup basmati rice 2 cups water 1/2 small yellow onion, thinly sliced 1 tablespoon of olive oil onion powder to taste Take a cup of basmati rice and put it into a bowl. Rinse the rice about three times and then fill the bowl with water over the rice and leave to soak for about thirty minutes.(Note: For basmati rice, presoaking really is mandatory. I made it without soaking it once and it came out quite badly, so be sure not to skip doing it!) While the rice is soaking, take a small pan, put in about one tablespoon of olive oil on about medium heat. Once the oil is heated, add half a thinly sliced onion and begin to fry, stirring occasionally. You'll want to cook and stir the onions until they grow dark- some that are black but not extra crispy are just fine. Turn off the heat and wait for the rice to finish soaking. After the rice is done soaking, drain the water from it carefully. There are now two cooking options: For those with asian rice cookers: Place the rice into the bowl of the cooker and pour two cups of water into it. Select the option for white rice and either normal or fast speed- either is fine. Half way through the cooking cycle (or until the water has been soaked up by the rice), open the cooker without turning it off and sprinkle onion powder onto the rice to taste while adding the cooked onions, stirring both into the rice. Close the cooker and allow it to finish until the rice is done. For those without rice cookers: Place the drained rice into a medium sized pot and add two cups of water. Cover the rice and put it on high to boil for about five to seven minutes. After that, reduce the heat to simmer for about 15 minutes. About halfway through the 15 minutes (or until the water has been soaked up by the rice), add the onion powder to taste and cooked onions to the rice, stirring it and returning the cover until the rice is done. Serve the rice with the curry and extra hot mango relish! 8D

The waves were crashing, pounding against the cliffs-- angry as if demanding the walls to fall into its body, hungry and consuming. Above, staring at those waves, was a figure peering superiorly down upon those waves, perhaps thinking to itself of nothing as its gaze pierced beneath the surface of the water and began to idly imagine what might lie below. It took a step back and shifted its gaze to the sky as two birds soared past, dancing in the gale that blew off of the cliff and down into the froth as the waves smacked against the stone, sending heaps of white up and over the sheer rock and about the feet of the lone figure. It minded it not, all of its attention upon the two birds above it. The birds themselves flew together, up and over one another, sometimes back to where they had once gone before flying forward again. They repeated this dance as the figure stood stock still, watching the display before it. It stood there, alone, the sole witness to the ritual the birds were performing before it, and of which it itself was exempt- a ground-dwelling creature and unable to fly. None the less, it watched with rapt attention as the birds now began to dive at the rough waters, never leaving the side of the other, and came back up into the air again as if no element in creation could affect it. The figure took a step forward, closer to the ledge in order to continue its observation of the birds. As its foot began to hit the edge, a cluster of stones broke away and plummeted down to the bottom and into the sea, nearly missing the pair below. The splash was immense, and the birds squawked in alarm before ceasing their play and speeding for the sky, soon out of sight. The figure was left there, alone, and staring wide-eyed into the sloshing waves below. The water had settled some, the winds passing and no longer stirring it, and the figure flinched. Why had it settled? Did the waves not know that it had lost two priceless creatures from its midst? Did it not know that this looming figure had been the cause? The shape began to silently panic. How did the waves not know? How were the waters unaware? Did they not see the dance? The feathers in the wind? It brought its hands to its face. Did it not feel the difference? Or did it simply not care? How could it not care? A whimper of a gasp escaped the mouth of the figure as it fell to its knees, still looking over and down at the waves as its hands left its face and began to grip the dirt and the rock at the edge of the cliff. Did it mean that the water did not see the figure either? Suddenly it grew mad. It would not be ignored. It opened its mouth to shout at the waves, but as it did, the winds whipped up the froth of the sea, shook up the waters, and sent the waves once more hurtling over the rocks and high over the head of the figure now below. The mouth of the being transformed into a perfect O as the waves fell, dropping froth from its edges, and crashed down upon the figure, wrapped itself around it, and as the cliff-face broke free under the pressure of the water, the figure, now plummeting downwards, looked with stinging eyes up at the sky through its blanket of salty seawater. Two birds soared by as it alone fell into the water, and into light.

Thank you, Mur.

I had no idea my post was made into a separate thread- whoever made it could've given me a heads up as I've got a lot of catching up to do, but even so I'll do my best to address some of the larger ideas presented; forgive me if I do not get too detailed. @dst: With regards to the rebel system and Mur, I was in a position for the first time ever to actually have some sort of say regarding the current state of my character. If I had not been in that position and proposed the idea, who knows how seriously it might've been taken? Considering the drastic situation, it happened to fit the event to the letter which I think is a rather rare occurrence. I count myself extremely lucky that Mur even gave a second thought to my idea- at the time, my only purpose in sharing it was to share an outside perspective that occurred to me after a good amount of time. As for 'cyber sex with Rask' you blow this extremely out of proportion- there was one vague line of a personal nature and that was about it. I'd personally rather roleplay in detail something more productive. Also, the war you've mentioned, to my knowledge, happend a very long time ago- at least over 8 months ago I can say for certain, and perhaps even longer. @Indyra: No, I do not think this is WoW, and I do agree that MD has a purpose, but we must remember that it is a purpose that is directed by a single person- Mur- and thus the vitality of the Land often depends on his actions within it. When Mur is not directing events or closely watching others to trigger what might seem interesting, things are rather still. When everything, for the most part, rides on the actions and thoughts of one person alone, what then? I remember at one point Mur saying he would retire from MD to some capacity and it seemed rather long-term until he shortly came back. Even so, it brings up fascinating thoughts- if Mur retired from MD in earnest, how would the land press on? Would someone from the Council begin to take on the guises of various figures such as the Knator Commander and others and create new plot lines, or would things merely sit there? I'm not suggesting that characters such as the KC should be free reign either- far from it- but we're rather forced to consider the idea that we're unable to affect the land as much as someone acting as driving lynchpin with full game permissions would be able to. Without someone in that position, things visibly slow down to a snail's pace, RP is lost to most people, and most quests created by users are more about riddles and math problems than things that could intrinsically have to do with trying to figure out what MD is. This part of what I was meaning here. @Curiose: I agree fully, and you're right, a good chunk of recent inactivity IS my fault due to outside influences as I've been tied up with final exams for the past three weeks until just a couple days ago, so this is why I've been out of the public eye as of late but they were things I needed to focus on as I'm hoping many can relate. I certainly see where our flaws are as rebels and it's been something I've spent many hours thinking of how to rectify. Even today I saw an argument at the gates between both sides that amounted to basically "No U!" over and over again where I couldn't decide whether or not to laugh or cry bearing witness to it. Even so, it was enlightening. Not every path is the obvious one, or even the most logical one, and so this takes tweaking according to the changes. Again, this has been a challenge I've both been horribly frustrated and delighted with, but even so, through the trial and error you yourself have mentioned (which very much has been going on, but perhaps on a more subtle scale than even I expected), a new tactic is already being actively taken. ------ To address some overall comments: •I'd never want permanent death for a character- I think that's horribly boring and bland. To use Mya's murder for a most recent example, at the time I was hoping at her death she'd then come back and then vehemently go after those who transgressed against her. If it hadn't been for Keith making a proper quest/event out of it, I doubt that would have ever happened even in small part as it did in the 'final showdown' that was held. To me, this sort of scenario is much more interesting than someone just going poof because they got nicked with a blade. •The 'scenario', for lack of a better word, I proposed in what became the first post of this thread does have the potential to become unbalanced in the hands of the players who devote a majority of their time playing MD. Even so, this is why things should not be so set in stone as most of the counterpoints to the idea have assumed in their assessments. The idea is to set up a more interactive arena in this sense, and adjust it as it goes along. In a way, this is something that already happens in MD, that's very true, but even so, all changes are left extremely open ended to not something necessarily affectable but something where the final say-so is left in the hands of a single person, or extremely limited and perhaps ardently biased group of individuals (to name a worst-case scenario), and that is near impossible to do anything with I think. This post was NOT an attempt to whine- please believe me on that point. It was merely an effort to share some of the thoughts that have been swirling about in my head after observing and being party to various events. Because it IS, in essence, just brainstorming, it is why I also wanted to hear everyone else's ideas regarding my own so I could see some other takes on the idea, not necessarily to be crucified for them, although I understand that also tends to come with the territory and that's ok. I do not expect the possibility I've presented to be some end-all solution to things because I know it's got its faults- THIS is why I wanted everyone's (hopefully constructive) take on it, as only with tweaking and the input from various perspectives can something close to perfect even be formed, or perhaps even inspire something else entirely that could be of use. Perhaps it's not the purpose of MD to inspire what are, in the end, 'what if' scenarios, but I DO believe the purpose of MD is to make us think, and thought I have- perhaps not by the most orthodox means, but the results have still been invaluable. So, for what it's worth, thanks for sharing your thoughts so far, you guys. [size="1"]edited to broaden one sentence.[/size]

I did NOT quote incorrectly, Jester changed his stance multiple times to end in the final result. That he cannot state a solid opinion on things isn't something I can control. I have blamed no one for any 'mistake' considering I do not see what 'mistake' you're talking about- could you be clearer if you'd like it addressed? With regards to your points, they miss the actual points completely. King is not a free license to abandon the responsibilities of a monarch once you get the crown or even later on down the road, being nice or bad has nothing to do with Necrovion to begin with so that point is in itself pointless, and yes it is a Monarchy- too bad it isn't run like one.

^ I think a significant thing is that MD does not have the mechanics one would normally first think upon to try and use to cause havoc- we cannot raid a place, we cannot kill anyone, we cannot destroy structures, we cannot set up destructive structures to cause damage to opposition, etc. Basically, we can sit around, plan, foment, and complain at the gates and that's about it. I know one person had an idea to leak liquid dust about no man's land simply to cause havoc, but how would that be done outside of roleplay that a handful of people may or may not see or even take seriously? Such a thing would not even be reflected in the landscape without Mur deciding to do it if he even wanted to. That's the reliance issue- in order to make a real impression on something, it requires someone else with the scripting permissions and the inclination to help us affect things, and I can only really think of two people who might have that kind of sway. I think it would be helpful, and not just in a rebellion system sense but in a larger realm type sense, that if, say, a certain resource(s) is gathered that it triggers in the system the ability to do something related to that gathering- such as collecting enough....I don't know- let's say wodin's seal- if someone has all the pieces in their inventory you'd have a button or something saying 'summon wodin'. The issue with how things are now is that in order to try something like that today you'd have to send a message to Mur saying, "Oh, by the way, we're doing this at such-and-such time on the clock, so would it be ok if you made this work?" instead of it being within the player's power to just do it themselves after the effort of gathering the pieces themselves. And this could be applied to anything- gathering bits of anything to trigger something specific. The issue right now is that the only thing really player-controlled is quest making, otherwise everything else goes through a really heavy filter before it's even considered being put into action and it's hard to move with that sort of thing. To add, I don't think this is 'robotic automation' either or that it takes away from a single thing, but that it adds more interaction, more goals that can actually be accomplished if an individual or group works towards it without outside influence saying, "You can do this, or not do that," in order for them to proceed- they can just go for it, and others can try to stop them or not. I think that sort of interaction would add not only another dimension to player interaction but kingdom relations as well. As for the rebels, the idea is that a certain number of rebels would trigger an election, but there is no set number- or maybe no number at all, and to what sort of ratio?- and a trigger isn't going to happen automatically, someone with the ability has to come by and be inclined to see it and start it. I suppose they could also see it and go, "Ehhhhh, no." even if the numbers are high enough, and how are we to know when there's no set number for the sides to keep track of outside of personal tallies? It's all incredibly subjective, I think, and extremely hard to work with although we are trying, and because we ARE trying to work with the current system it IS taking awhile, but I can at least say that we ARE doing things even if they aren't quite so obvious to the public eye just yet. Still, this is all very off-topic to the topic of alts which has already been sorted out, I think, so my apologies for the length of this post. It's just an interesting problem to try and work with and/or around, I think, and as a rebel I've been equally intrigued, as well as just as frustrated, with the challenge. [size="1"]edited for commas.[/size]

[quote]However, a citizen shouldn't expect the king to chase them down to check on things. Kings aren't mind readers either. A citizen should approach the king with a land relating project like wish point awards or forming groups that take a name from the land.[/quote] The irony, Mya, is that all these things were done before everything went downhill. It was Jester's severe lack of follow-through and inactivity in the land that caused such widespread frustration. As for the new rules feature, I think it has potential- not just to make things clear and referenceable, but also as something that will probably become an open record of the land as rules are created as a result of certain events, thus giving it an historical context.

[quote name='Kamisha' timestamp='1292485298' post='75570'] I guess the bottom line like most of us and myself previously felt is that the rebel system was made to take the human element out. The actual use of the rebel system should be put to rest as to allow the human element to assess better than just walking through necro and then make a decision depending on what facts have taken place in the time being. [/quote] The problem with this 'human element' is that it is not reliable if the people using it must rely on an outside person to *maybe* do something in response. The people themselves WANT to do something, but how can they when the thing they want to do relies on an outside, perhaps indifferent, person? Are the people wanting to do something not human? Therefore no 'human element' is lost- it is only stifled by lack of ability to properly act due to reliance on unreliable elements. This is also the problem that the rebels currently have with the king of necrovion. [size="1"]edited for typo.[/size]

For the fourth round! I thought about putting it into the 5th dimension, but that's bordering on convoluted and overkill for just this I think, haha. [attachment=2437:t4.png]

I've been avoiding this thread because it got a bit silly with other people bringing up old personal issues to throw at old foes (or so it seems- I can only judge by what's been said here), but overall my position is and has been this: A citizen, not the king, started a quest. A citizen was ordered to bias whose entries they accepted according to the king's bias. Since they are prize provider, I concede that this is fair enough. Since the issue has turned INTO that, I have never had a problem with THAT SPECIFIC logic- however this was not the original problem. The ORIGINAL problem as depicted in Rasiel's thread (which is no longer an accurate record of events considering all the posts Jester deleted/edited and that Rasiel edited) was that Jester was ordering all citizens to ban all rebels from ALL CITIZEN-RUN QUESTS regardless of the source of prizes- meaning that even if an individual provided all of the prizes themselves, unless they wanted to face potential excommunication, they could not, by any means, hold an open quest because of the King's personal bias. THIS is what I originally had a problem with, and still do- THIS is what I think should be debated over. However, as the argument progressed in Rasiel's thread, Jester changed his position a few times to finally result in saying that only in instances where he provides the prize that he orders rebels not to be counted- IF I am understanding him correctly; again, the record in that thread isn't the most accurate and was only partially transferred over to this thread out of extreme frustration with Jester constantly deleting what were originally very short posts asking the specifics of the rules that did not exist at the time of the thread creation, and for the ferocity of the original post of this thread I apologize to the rest of the community- it was not my original plan. So, before any more possible misunderstandings are had, I thought I would clarify all of the events leading up to this. I *would* be interested in hearing the community's opinions on exactly how much power one thinks a King could, or should, have over their subjects when it comes to personal projects, and how much autonomy a citizen should have regarding such things. Should it be absolute dictatorship, utter obedience, or else lengthy jail sentences for trying to hold one's own? Or, is a citizen entitled to some amount of autonomy without the shadow of a trigger-happy monarch over them? I think some interesting thoughts could be had on these topics, and I do believe they are quite related to this original problem. Thoughts?

[quote name='Pipstickz' timestamp='1292374540' post='75464'] Out of curiosity, (let's pretend that they had separate roles n' stuff >>) Pipstickz is a citizen of Necrovion, could MRPip rebel against GG? Or could they both be rebels in different lands? The announcement wasn't so clear about such details, and I know; better safe than sorry stuff, just wondering. [/quote] In theory, no, MRPip could not rebel because only your main, Pipstickz, would have the right to being the main account. At least this is how it was explained to me by the staff.

Jester, again, as King you should be thoroughly reading and knowing what is in the announcements, as Mur has already stated that alts cannot be rebels- he has also stated this in the forum. Where have you been?

[quote name='Muratus del Mur' timestamp='1292250523' post='75351'] the more you try to judge others or THINK the wronger you will get. if i could manage this through pm i would do so , just so you wont see what others post, but i can't. i won't look at posts that say "i agree with x", you need to upload your own image, so i can see it, so i can see how YOU draw those shapes. I dont care if you agree with one or the other. [/quote] Actually, I'm surprised at how similar some peoples' thoughts have been. I thought of one way of doing the closure, for instance, only to scroll down and see it already done. I thought I should probably do it another way so it wouldn't look like I was 'copying' but then I also thought that would defeat the purpose, so I went with my original thought anyway. O_o

Ok, I was extremely precise with where I put this dot- it is not precisely as it seems at first glance. Anyway, here it is: [attachment=2388:p3.png]

Here is mine for this- each one is labeled. [attachment=2387:pt2.png]

I thought I would try my hand either way. [attachment=2310:symbol.png]

Thanks again, everybody!!! I had a pretty good day!

^ What kind of mushrooms do you suggest for this? Portabella?

[quote name='Kamisha' timestamp='1291537737' post='74466'] OK the first two quotes relate to the third one. Necrocron being ruled by jester does make it jesters land.[/quote] No, it makes him caretaker of it. He does not own it. [quote]I truly beleve that a land is defined by its ruler.[/quote] And you are fully entitled to your personal opinion on the matter, but that does not make it fact. [quote]Regardless of who rose novocron out of the ocean it does not matter who they are as they dont have control of it. For example if I where to buy an xbox and I don't use it but lets say my brother where to use it. I own it but I no longer define the games it plays or the time that its used. I simply have lost control in essence it is no longer mine. Likewise necrocron is no longer the wizards it is now jesters.[/quote] Again, this is very redundant- Jester does not own necrovion. [quote]Ok as for betrayal. Regardless of what jester did you are still betraying him plain and simple. An eye for an eye does not makes both of you equal but you still end up as two half blind people. Neither of you are getting that eye back plain and simple. Two wrongs don't make a wright would be a nice way to put it. You both decided to betray each other plain and simple thus they should be treated as separate events.[/quote] They both happened at about the same time- how can it possibly be deemed 'different'? I don't think you're fully aware of what's taken place recently.... [quote]See he is not restricting people he is restricting people from his rewards which he has every right to do. People restrict people that have already won there quest from receiving another WP from them. Think of it like this if it makes it easier to understand.[/quote] I already answered the point of this thread in my last post. Please reread it. [quote]P.S. Sry I have a tendency to be abrasive. I just don't see the relevance of what you arguing here. If I don't see a valid point I am going to be brutally honest. I haven't lied yet on the fourm and I don't plan to make a habit of it. (I may have made hasty decisions but that's not lieing before you bring those up.) I even Kept my Hate Pages the same when I was running for election of lore-root. Granted I now regret it even though I would have lost either way. [/quote] I'm sorry, but what does you lying have to do with anything? I'm confused. I don't mind, but if you could please just spell 'Necrovion' properly once it might help your credibility a little more. Sorry- I'm just horribly blunt and a bit of a grammar witch. I think I've already stated my point clearly enough in the past few posts. ========== @Kamisha: As of half an hour ago, my citizenship panel read 'Necrovion'. However, in those past few mintues, it suddenly does not. This is a mistake, as the intention of Rebel status is to KEEP citizenship of a land while fighting against the king. Losing citizenship status defeats the purpose. No offense, but I'm guessing you're not a native english speaker. What do you natively speak? I might be able to word things better for you if I knew- I'm not trying to be a jerk, but you're consistently getting things mixed up it seems and that's the only reason I can think of for it.

[quote name='Jester' timestamp='1291536953' post='74462'] The Rebels used to be citizens, and were at the time of rebelling, yes. However, check your homeland. I am not preventing you from participating in a Quest, I'm preventing you from winning what I sponsor it with. If the person who made the Quest still wishes to reward you, I will not take any action against them. [/quote] My oh my, somebody's found a loophole in the code. The whole point of Rebel status is so that rebels may maintain citizenship while protesting the king- finding a way around that isn't going to help you. It's only going to reinstate our status and close up the hole. Thanks for finding it, though.

[quote name='Kamisha' timestamp='1291535805' post='74460'] Technically speaking jester is necrocron is jester.[/quote] Could you elaborate what you mean by that? [quote]A land is defined by the most influential person in that land.[/quote] No, a land is defined by the land itself. People may reside there, but the people, and the monarch, will constantly change- the land is a constant. [quote]Though your land is formed by your ruler there for you are betraying your land.[/quote] The last history book I read stated that when the wizards created GG, Necrovion sprang up as a counter balance. I do not think Jester was one of the wizards therefore he did not create the land- better people than him have come before him. [quote]Also this is not rebel abuse. You should realize when becoming a rebel you are betraying jester.[/quote] Rebel abuse is unwarrented actions against the rebels, and I have not betrayed Jester- he did that well enough himself to the rest of us. [quote]Now tell me Aysen lets say I was your friend and I posted this. Lets say you where king had wish-points to give. Would you give me the gift of using them. Now if you did I would declare you the either the nicest most forgiving person or the most stupid. Now ill tell you now that jester is not stupid and since he is not giving you the wish-points he is not the nicest or most forgiving and I believe he is comfortable with that and I would be as well. If that doesn't quite sit right with you or you don't understand that ill make it painfully simple. Kings are allowed to use wish-points as they see fit. If he does not find you fit he is not obligated to give them up. They are his property plain and simple. [/quote] I am not asking for codes from him- that time has come and gone. This is about whether or not he can actually restrict someone from participating in another person's quest simply because they hold rebel status. Quests are about the land, not about the king. THAT is the point here- sorry if you missed it. [quote name="Jester"]You are the one causing the turmoil, standing outside the Gates and bickering all day, insulting people just because they don't agree with you. Also, as King I do indeed speak for Necrovion, and you are not even part of the land anymore.[/quote] Mur has already explicitly stated that rebels ARE CITIZENS. Please reread his posts- as king, you should have these updates memorized, or at least handy when you want to make a statement like this. I have not 'stood at the gates and bickered' for quite some time- you were off being inactive for the two full weeks where I *was* actively answering questions at the gates. I do not insult those who do not agree with me, Jester- that would be you, and I have volumes of PMs, screencaps, and chat logs to refresh your memory as to why you also lost king points for doing so if you've forgotten, so please don't play that card with me.