Aysun

[quote name='awiiya' date='02 June 2010 - 07:23 PM' timestamp='1275524581' post='60832'] MD is good and bad on a very surface level. Mostly MD is full of people who make decisions based on what they believe is right and wrong. The idea of teams of good and teams of bad is simplifying life to an extreme. And the last line? You have been here far less time than Sharazhad. I believe it is she who should be welcoming you. Awi [/quote] It wasn't that sort of literal welcoming. *laugh* @DST: It's all been going on within MD itself, and someone already mentioned Ivorak and the other general knowledge in this thread as it is.

[quote name='Tarquinus' date='02 June 2010 - 04:43 PM' timestamp='1275514996' post='60819'] Adsun [/quote] *AHEM* @DST: Basically everything you've mentioned we already openly knew, save for the murder weapon which, yes, you seem to have spoiled. It still needs to be sought after, however, and the actual root of the motive has yet to really be revealed, and that's what everyone's been debating about since it happened. So really, you've not provided a great deal of new information. @Sharazhad: Forgive me, but I think what you're describing is called 'coddling'. There are a very many great mechanics in MD as it is that, in a sense, coddle a player and prevents them and what they possess from harm, and even player creativity is somewhat stifled for the sake of the soul of the game. However, something like this is completely in bounds and extremely welcome, I think. Someone possessed a tool that was created with the ability to actually slay a player, and they used it. This item was not built in with a 'ask your victim first if it's ok' safety lock. It wasn't meant for that. As Awiiya said, "No murderer asks their victim before killing them." There is good and bad in MD. Part of that bad is screwing over those perceived as good. Mya is perceived as 'good' and just got screwed over. Now, the 'good' can either fight back with some real force of their own or take it. Either way, welcome to the game!

[quote name='awiiya' date='30 May 2010 - 10:25 PM' timestamp='1275276339' post='60661'] I disagree quite strongly with this statement, especially the following - "We will always and forever stuck in a cube." Forever is a long time, and infinity a most beautiful concept, simply because EVERYTHING happens when given infinite time. There is a slight probability that everything will happen, and given enough time, that slight possibility will become a reality. I think we can break free of our cube, although often times we find ourselves in another cube. Is that to say that there is no way to eventually lack barriers and shed walls? No, certainly not. And besides, if someone did break free of the "prison" of cubicity, it is my impression that they would be too busy enjoying the freedom to come back and tell us how to perform such an act of escape. To me, the dead and the free rarely return to speak. Awi [/quote] Again, I'll admit to perhaps a poor choice of words, but technicalities aside I think you understand what I was getting at. I suppose also we've finally hit the line if subjectivity. I don't think any of us can truly be free of our perceptions- they can be altered over time, yes, but they'll still be there. And so, in my opinion, will there always be the cube. I think it could be this cube, though, that perhaps in part defines us as humans- because we cannot (in my opinion) break free of it, it creates in us flaws, and those flaws become the sum of our humanity. Also, I think it'd be fun to start another discussion on this in a new thread, but it's just occurred to me that we've gone waaaaay off topic here.

"This is my Timey-Wimey detector. Goes ding when there's stuff. Also, it can boil an egg at thirty paces. Whether you want it to or no, actually. I've learned to stay away from hens. It's not pretty when they blow." - The Doctor (Doctor Who) "This is the only sun you will ever seen again. But a millennium of nights will be yours to see light as no mortal has ever seen it, to snatch from the distant stars, as if you were Prometheus, an endless illumination by which to understand all things." -Marius to Amadeo (The Vampire Armand) "slam bang! like Superman dodging into the all-American phone booth, and voilà! There I stand, full-dress apparitional, in velvet once again, and I’ve got you by the throat. We’re in the vestibule of the Cathedral (where did you think I’d drag you? Don’t you want to die on consecrated ground?), and you’re begging for it all the way; oops! went too far, meant for this to be the Little Drink, don’t say I didn’t warn you. Come to think of it. Did I warn you?" -Lestat to his readers (Blood Canticle) "Bill Gates can't guarantee Windows. How can you guarantee my safety?" -John Crichton (Farscape) "Crais: FREEZE! You're under arrest! You have the right to the remains of a silent attorney! If you cannot afford one... tough noogies! You can make ONE phone call! I recommend Trixie: 976-Triple 5-LOVE. Do you understand these rights as I have explained them to you?! Well do ya, PUNK? Crichton: No... Crais: Well... then I can't arrest you!" (Farscape) "Revenge is a feast best served immediately." -D'Argo (Farscape) "There was one guard. I don't remember her face. She never told me her name. She told me a legend about how Sebaceans once had a god called... Djancaz-bru. Six worlds prayed to her. They built her temples, conquered planets and yet, one day she still rose up and destroyed all six worlds. And when the last warrior was dying, he... he said: 'We gave you everything. Why did you destroy us?' And, she looked down upon him, and she whispered... 'Because I can.'" -Aeryn (Farscape)

[quote name='Rendril' date='30 May 2010 - 06:22 AM' timestamp='1275218545' post='60616'] You have yet to provide any reasoning as to why specifically an inorganic being could not break from an inorganic confine. Since you are arguing only this special case, your example of Kusanagi serves no purpose in your attempt to strengthen your agrument. To illustrate, you are using it to say this: A, given B, therefore C. (what we know) Now, D, given B, therefore E. (the deduction as a result of what we know) Surely you see that they don't share the same premise.[/quote] I've been using ghost in the shell (the movie- I know next to nothing about the tv show) to illustrate my point that synthetic things cannot hold back the natural (aka the shell cannot hold the ghost if the ghost doesn't want to be held) as an example. I don't know how what we know and what we assume from what we know has no relation to you. The pieces fit from what I can see, however your examples still don't seem to make sense in how you think they don't. [quote]The fundemental reason that your argument does not hold is this: We break out of our cubes.[/quote] If we break out of our cubes, how come we're all still in MD? I think the ultimate premise is that we can [i]never[/i] break out-- all we can do is try to expand our horizons, widen the walls a little, but those walls will never break down because we are not all-knowing. We will always and forever be stuck in a cube. The question is, then, how do we deal with that? [quote]Even if we ignore all the other arguments (as you seem to be doing by neglecting to refute any that I put forth. I will therefore assume you argree with me), we can see by modus tollens that the premise does not hold (that is, the conclusion is negated and therefore the premise is negated)....The point of MD is not that we are in some inescapable cube. We are not confined to the cube because we are organic or inorganic. We have to challenge our limitations and transcend them. The truth will set you free [/quote] I've not avoided your arguments- if you're meaning the one you spent on how organic and inorganic are inaccurate terms, that point was already established two posts before you made that one, was agreed upon, and so your comments on that note were a tad late. [quote]I must echo the question that Burns has posed, "Who says that a not-biological being can't conceive and give birth?" [/quote] Because giving physical birth to something is a biological process. Sure there's magic and dreams that can create things, but they cannot physically bear child-- they can only 'give birth' in the metaphorical sense.

[quote name='Burns' date='30 May 2010 - 02:16 AM' timestamp='1275203806' post='60610'] Hmm... new book is not the problem, 'old internet' might be. When your connection is quite crappy and gives monstrous pings every once in a while, it could appear to the server as if you were sending two-three commands at once, and that makes it idle you. Wait a bit longer, specially when fighting, and let the site finsih loading, once you are not downloading anymore, even the crappiest connection will be able to upload in decent time^^ [/quote] I can pretty much guarantee that my connection isn't the problem. I thought at first that it was the script in game getting out of whack after being up for too long of a period of time, but even after reloading, it seemed to make it worse. I also tried a new window with the same result. But I could very nearly bet money that my internet isn't the problem.

[quote name='Rendril' date='29 May 2010 - 10:41 PM' timestamp='1275190907' post='60606'] Your argument was that because we are limited by an inorganic construct, we are therefore inorganic. Yet your example of Major Kusanagi shows that an organic soul can break from the limitation an inorganic shell. [/quote] Right, and as my argument was that our souls are inorganic because our cubes are inorganic and still keep us trapped, the idea of Kusanagi, who in theory has a real human ghost, being able to break free of her shell and travel the internet makes sense since her organic soul could not be bound by an inorganic shell, yet we are inorganic constructions here and thus bound by our inorganic cubes that we cannot break free of. It still holds.

The best way to explain this problem is to describe it: If I am trying to move to another scene via the arrows or a gate, it will not highlight when I mouse over it, and then clicking it causes the mouse to flash on the screen, requiring constant repetitive clicking before it actually works. This happens with anything that can be moused over-- items, the menu, arrows, gates, creature recharging, anything. In the midst of this head contest no less, this is extremely frustrating and makes things very, very difficult when trying to maneuver in game. I am also constantly having a problem with the game just shutting down completely to where I get the 'you have multiple windows of magic duel open and are in forced idle mode' even though I never have multiple windows of the game open. Ever. This happens at any time. I could be moving locations, I could be sitting completely still for half an hour chatting and it'll do it. Worst of all is when I'm trying to fight or quickly move from place to place. I have no idea if these two issues might be related to each other, but in an odd way it seems possible. Regardless, both are extremely frustrating, and I really, really don't want to break my brand new laptop smashing down on the clicker because nothing clicks properly half the time. *sigh* My hardware and software is as follows: I have a MacBook Pro, OSX.6, and play MD on the newest version of Firefox. Best of luck in discovering a solution, because it's driving me batty.... -A

[quote name='Burns' date='29 May 2010 - 08:45 AM' timestamp='1275140759' post='60582'] Ahm... And when we all are artificial, why are our babies not? Same argument as post 30, with exchanged signs, something artificial can create something else that is artificial, like robots designed to built other robots. the internet is full of them, ai that creates more, or even changed ai, usually called polymorphic viruses. I mean, we could consider the existance of different races, like humans and cyborgs, in MD, but... where's the indication for that? [/quote] Because in this instance, Sagewoman is suggesting that she conceived and gave birth the old fashioned way, thus meaning that she did so biologically. If we are artificial constructions, this shouldn't be possible. @Rendril: Please take a look at my second to last post-- I agreed with Awiiya that at this point, the terms organic and inorganic had become the wrong ones to use. [quote name='Rendril']You have just refuted your own argument that something organic can break from the bonds of something inorganic.[/quote] I'm not sure how you think I did so there, but I'm interested to hear your explanation of how I might've. I personally don't see it, but it's easier to understand your own logic than to explain it sometimes so I'm guessing I wrote something funny and it got misinterpreted.

^ But that's just it- I [i]don't[/i] agree that we are natural beings! *chuckle* That's what I've been trying to say. The cubes we all reside in are artificial constructions, and I've spent a good chunk of my past few posts explaining why I feel that we as beings who reside within these cubes and whose lives are mapped out on the inside of them such as the world of MD is through metaphor via the different lands it encompasses would thus also be artificial constructions. Therefore, what I've been saying all this time is that I feel that the artificial such as we are cannot possibly create from ourselves something that is natural (aka babies in this instance) if we are artificial ourselves to begin with- we simply wouldn't have the tools to work with given those parameters- unless of course that sort of paradox is just one of the many mysteries of MD. I've explained all this better in my previous posts here in this thread, and as it is very nearly 3am for me as I write this, you might be better off just going back and reading them for better clarity in what I mean here.

[quote name='Burns' date='28 May 2010 - 05:12 PM' timestamp='1275084736' post='60555'] And there's that subtle difference between being bound to something and residing somewhere. I agree that a lot cultures wanted the body to be objected to certain rituals and parts of it kept safe for the soul to find rest. But none of them believed that the soul was trapped in some part of the body. In fact, they believed that the soul was bound to be restless for evermore if the body was completely destroyed, like you told us about the Egyptians. [/quote] This was not the case in Egypt. The egyptians in fact believed that the soul resided in the actual organ of the heart- this is why it was the only organ that was carefully wrapped and then replaced back into the body after all the other organs had been removed. Because the soul was so inadvertently tied to the body, this is why the body was thus preserved and the heart, the home of the soul, replaced so that the soul, the Ka, could find its way back to the body every day in order to perpetuate itself and its identity. Souls weren't just lost if a mummy was destroyed, it was devoured into oblivion (Amut) altogether. [quote name='awiiya' date='28 May 2010 - 06:45 PM' timestamp='1275090330' post='60557'] So then what is the difference between organic and inorganic? Well, there isn't one, they're just words. People attempt to make a distinction (organic things have carbon: but what about carbon dioxide? baking soda?), but in truth there is no set line. In this sense, the argument is flawed from the beginning due to relying on such imprecise terms. Awi [/quote] At this point, I'll have to acquiesce a poor choice of words also. I suppose we should just stick to natural and unnatural?

[quote name='Chewett' date='28 May 2010 - 04:10 PM' timestamp='1275081019' post='60551'] i have updated all of the bookshelves so that they all appear again. Unless anyone wnats them to be hidden for a while i shall keep updating them as and when i pass by. [s]NOTE: it seems something has broken the javascript to load the script, Since i dont want to break it i shall be contacting Rendril.[/s] EDIT 2: Iv fixed up the errors with the bookshelf, it should all work now. All the Bookshelves currently display the same content. [/quote] Thank you! I went immediately to examine things as soon as I saw your status update. [quote=Rhaegar Targaryen]also they are all mostly (or all as far as I know) based on articles on MD archives. you should check it: http://md-archives.com/[/quote] Where's the fun in that?

[quote name='Burns' date='28 May 2010 - 02:09 PM' timestamp='1275073792' post='60545'] I'll point your attention to the regeneration intervals and simply state that, if you weren't alive, you wouldn't regenerate, which is merely a form of reproduction. Therefore, you are organic. Maybe nothing else in MD is, which i find highly unlikely, but each player definitely is. Inorganic things do not reproduce lost substance.[/quote] Some batteries recharge themselves over time, but they're not organic. I think perhaps the idea of recharging might not be the best example. [quote]The soul is a special matter. According to almost any religion ever, it's not bound to anything. As such, it's neither organic nor inorganic, it's simply not built from any elements. If you wish, a soul is like an electric impulse, but not quite that either, because... how would that be mystic? The only interesting part of Ghost in a Shell is the fiction that the whole soul can be taken from a human and implanted into a puppet without major losses. [/quote] I would beg to differ. Many world religions require that the body stay somewhat intact in order for the soul to survive in the afterlife. The ancient Egyptians are a prime example of this. Without a body for the Ka to reside in, the person in question would be lost to oblivion- thus why the ultimate punishment was destroying the mummy of an enemy. As for transplanting a soul, one could say that is what has taken place in MD- [background=black][color="#000000"]a soul/consciousness of some varying degree has been placed within an artificial confine (the cube) and we grow at the price of sacrificing marind- or our carefree child-like naivete. Thus if there *had* been any sort of transfer, it wasn't done cleanly.[/color][/background] Anyway, I think this is going into something else aside from alts at this point...

The bookshelves do not currently work at all. Are there any plans to remedy this? I'm quite interested in taking a look at all of them, but there's either nothing there or just loading screens that go on into infinity.

[quote name='Rendril' date='28 May 2010 - 09:09 AM' timestamp='1275055744' post='60538'] I believe you are misunderstanding the meaning of the cube not being "natural". I do not think that "natural" in this context is as organic. Since both organic and inorganic entities, by virtue of their very existence in nature, are natural, I will assume that you mean a more philosophical and abstract notion of organic and inorganic, rather than carbon-based.[/quote] Inorganic things do not occur in nature, that is the whole purpose of it being termed 'inorganic' to begin with. If nature created it, then it would be organic. If man gets its hands on it, alters its molecular properties into a beast of a thing that can never occur naturally on earth, then it is inorganic. I feel that natural/unnatural are interchangeable, in this instance, with organic/inorganic. What was created by the world and what was fabricated- like unto the cube we are in. Since in md we are literally in a cube, the philosophical aspects of it then become the literal, and that is what we're left to work with, I think. [quote]I think it is within the realm of possibilty for something organic to produce something inorganic, and simialrly, for something inorganic to produce something organic. From my understanding, you have shown them as mutually exclusive sets. I propose that they are in fact intersecting sets. That is, something could be both organic and inorganic at the same time. Imagine an inorganic body with an inorganic soul breathed in. In the words of Styx "My heart is human, my blood is boiling, my brain IBM"[/quote] I think it is possible for something organic to [i]affect[/i] something else that is organic and thus make it inorganic (our periodic table is proof of such endeavours), however we cannot, say, conceive a child by the regular means that would therefore be some sort of freak inorganic thing. And so, my point is that the organic produces the organic but can make what is already organic inorganic after the fact, and in a similar fashion that which is inorganic cannot produce something that is organic- they simply do not have the composition to do so. The inorganic would produce more of itself which is therefore also inorganic. With regards to the soul, I cannot personally think of any more innately organic than that. A shell, which is ultimately inorganic, can have a consciousness that was put into it, but does consciousness constitute an actual soul? It is the argument of "Ghost in the Shell", and a very complex one in and of itself that I think perhaps warrants closer attention but probably not here, heheh. [quote]However, why could something inorganic not hold back something organic? [/quote] It's similar to the analogy I used earlier but I shall modify it since you have me thinking of souls now- you yourself can, right now, remove or break out of your synthetic, inorganic clothing, however your organic soul cannot break out of its organic body. If we are to use Ghost in the Shell as another example, even Kusanagi can send her ghost/soul out of her shell along the lines of the ethernet, but her police partner who is 100% organic human cannot. It is another tantalizing clue that if she *does* have a soul, it cannot be held back by the inorganic shell if she chooses.

[quote name='Tarquinus' date='27 May 2010 - 08:06 PM' timestamp='1275008765' post='60496']It is easy to say, in a vacuum, "things should be thus," but MagicDuel is not nor ever has been a vacuum. You ask how Yrthilian can have wound up with so many alts without necessarily wanting them, and the answer is simply that he inherited them, and that they serve meaningful roles, quasi-npc-like, in the realm. He would be remiss in his function as king of Golemus Golemicarum (to say nothing of his personal responsibility as a friend) to allow these accounts and roles to languish unused or simply disappear. You arrive after the era of the RPCs, so you do not know about certain roles and characters in the realm that are or have become somewhat institutional.[/quote] I've never argued that MagicDuel operated in a vacuum, however I will say that unfortunately not all roleplayers are equal and so generally my opinions come into play as a result of the majority- and in the minority that it does not fall under (as I mentioned in my first post in this thread that my comments were mostly geared towards those who abuse institution) I usually find myself quite impressed at their abilities to switch gears. You're right in that I come after the time of RPCs, and although I don't know the technicalities of how that worked, 'inheriting characters' to me sounds like sharing accounts in order to sustain an entity. I understand that long-standing players can they themselves become something of an institution, and that is something I personally appreciate because their continued activities are what build an exceedingly rich tapestry of history and stories, however if the man behind the curtain decides to 'lose himself to time' as it were, perhaps it is merely the cyclicity of things that he does so. Their passing away and effective departure from the public eye in itself becomes legend which further perpetuates their history and legend surrounding them. If they are continuously kept alive for the sake of being kept alive (either as a sort of icon or otherwise), and others are then needed to take over to do so, that character has the very likely chance of either having a significant split personality suddenly or just becoming a hollow shell of who they were under their original owner, and that would drastically affect the importance of that being should it happen. It's like a rock band that's outlasted their prime- they can end on a high note, or continue on and make their good name become a bit of a joke. But if they quit when they feel they need to go, their return in the scheme of things will be that much more epic when it comes. If that's not what you meant by inheriting, though, I do apologize for my misinterpretation. [quote]In my case, I invented two alts for specific purposes, and one almost never gets used because the plans I made for it did not pan out. My "primary" alternate account, Keith Moon, sees so much use it is now honestly debatable which is the "main" - Tarquinus or Keith. It is important that you understand that my public acknowledgment of Keith as Tarquinus's "alt" is a relatively recent phenomenon. I don't mean to sound pompous, as it is a simple fact that as recently as a month ago some players were still reacting with surprise to learn that Keith and Tarquinus are played by the same guy. Why is that? Mainly, it is that Keith started out as sort of a joke, a spinoff of the Tarquinus character's belief in reincarnation, and grew into a fully developed character in his own right. I play Lucius and Keith as friends, which is easy enough to understand and explain, but they are different from each other and dwell in different societies in the world of MagicDuel. Is either of them one-dimensional? Judge for yourself. [/quote] As I just said above, mostly my perspectives come from what will happen nine times out of ten, and that is a completely botched effort, intentionally, unknowingly, accidentally, or not. I know there can be magnificent exceptions to the rule (that is why I've not been quite as cut and dry about this as I perhaps could've been), but the unfortunate fact is that it often doesn't end up that way. One of my original suggestions from a completely theoretical standpoint in my first post was that in order to successfully conceive a second character, one would have to go for the totally anonymous route. From what you describe here, save for the last bit, seems as if you've done just that, and sure enough you've received due remuneration from your fellows for your efforts. By all means, I agree with that sort of course and said so in the beginning. But, for instance, such as with child alts, the people behind them are not anonymous, either because they advertised right away who their new alts were or because whatever their underlying cause for creating an alt might've been became so obvious to their fellows to the point where they were seen clear through and their cover was blown. This is the sort of thing that comes hand in hand with creating a character who's main purpose in life is to terrorize the adversary of their main which is really poor form, I think, any way you look at it. [quote]I can certainly corroborate the statement that playing multiple well-developed characters at once is challenging. Your words about the aspects of our personalities coming to the fore of these characters is accurate, but anyone who has ever game-mastered a tabletop RPG has experience borrowing different aspects of her personality and presenting them as completely different perspectives. Do I recommend it? I do not...The objections you raise about the reality of the MagicDuel setting are well taken, but they really only present challenges to the players more than insurmountable obstacles. The easy answer for me to the question of the characters' role in this reality is that Tarquinus is somewhat delusional and insane, and I have always played him that way. Multiple personality disorder is cliché and somewhat hackneyed, but I guarantee there are at least two players other than me in MagicDuel who carry it off elegantly and sometimes brilliantly.[/quote] Again, I said originally that, along with anonymity, picking an extreme to work from if one is thinking of an alt is also another way to combat the perpetuation of carried-over bias from one character to another, and you seem to have done this the other way around by making an extreme entity first and a more leveled out one later on down the road. *chuckle* Either way works, and coupled with your (mostly) anonymity in roles and working with dynamics through extremes and thus being successful with it, I feel the examples you've given have proven my point that those things are vital to pulling something like alts off. However, the reality is that it usually doesn't work out that way and we usually end up with a clash of interests such as child alts present. So therein lies the conundrum that must be untangled, if it is even possible, in how to separate such an intimate alt from its conceptor so as to avoid damaging/inane cross-overs of personalities/bias/etc. . I suppose one avenue it could take would be to quietly make a deal with someone outside of the 'family' to take over the character, thus allowing it to be truly its own being provided that the standard problems we've already mentioned here of having an alt as it is can still be handled with care. That is, of course, if the inorganic producing the organic is even possible by the laws of MagicDuel in its essence, and from what I've been able to read and understand it shouldn't because it doesn't really fit the logic and physics of the land (barring the possibility of intended paradox). That in itself is a completely different conversation, though, but since relevance is also an underlying issue I thought I'd give it a brief mention once again so that that aspect of it isn't out of mind. [quote]Your constructive criticism is welcome, Aysun, and indeed you get a certain cachet with me and others for arguing your case lucidly and logically among veteran players.[/quote] I thank you for that. Although I'm still learning, even these sorts of discussions help me better sort out the structure of things in MD so I appreciate your counter.

[quote name='Sharazhad' date='27 May 2010 - 05:46 PM' timestamp='1275000361' post='60486'] [color="#2e8b57"][i] But I dont get why this is becoming such an issue. Is this gonna develop into a rant to ban alts? cos it sure seems to be heading that way - Just makes me wonder, what kind of world is MD turning into? [/i][/color] [/quote] .....or you could begin a self-fulfilling prophecy predicting such a turn and it will therefore happen! I don't think anyone here has suggested banning alts. I personally said that, ideally, I think everyone should be kept to one character, but that's just me. I hold myself to my own ethics and no one else, but I don't see any harm in constructive criticism from time to time, and that's what this debate seems like to me. No one's been ranting, everyone's been presenting pretty good arguments for and against the practice of child alts and various philosophies behind alts to begin with. There's really no answer to the question, ultimately. It's all very subjective. The only final voice in the matter would be Mur's, and I don't think it's come to anything that serious as of yet.

[quote name='Pipstickz' date='27 May 2010 - 04:34 PM' timestamp='1274996043' post='60482'] "The cube is created AROUND" Suggests that you were there, then the cube was added. The cube is not natural, but it says nothing about the person it contains. [/quote] If the cube is unnatural but created from our own self limitations, our limitations, although created by us, would still be organic if we were the organic things that made them. If the cube is inorganic, it could be argued that something inorganic also created it, meaning that the maps of one's soul that lies within the inner walls of the cube is also of an inorganic nature, for how could something truly organic be held back by something that is inorganic? You're not really trapped in the synthetic clothes you wear, as you can remove, or rip out of them (whichever you prefer ), at any time, whereas within this cube we are very much stuck. I think that there are many ways to argue this, however. [quote name='Burns' date='27 May 2010 - 04:43 PM' timestamp='1274996612' post='60484'] http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/5784-forum-rules/page__view__findpost__p__48452 Just as a reminder, all of us should have read those rules some time Apart from that, i'm fine with alts that don't abuse the system and don't start to force their (copied) 'stories' on MD. There's... 10 of these, at best. There are also very few people who have the time, and brain capacity, to play two different accounts well. Those are the only alts worth being supported. The others... waste serverspace. And annoy me, personally, to no end. You also have to be careful with your opinions, MD is an RPG. We are NOT ourselves when we log in, we play a character. Some very smart people are capable of creating more than 1 character for the same game. A lot more tried and failed, but the potential failure shouldn't ban them from the try imo. They give up some time anyways^^ [/quote] Ah. Well my suggestion for a separate forum account for alts was to remove the conspicuous absence of that other anonymous character's presence in the forum. If someone becomes a major player in the land but is clearly absent here, suspicions could be aroused. That was all. As for saying that we are not ourselves- surely we are a [i]facet[/i] of ourselves when we step into a place like MD. That facet, although just a fragment, is still a part of ourselves. We can't create what we are not already, and that in itself has numerous implications. Also, the longer an entity exists, it only becomes a more concentrated form of itself. I think the long-time players of MD will admit that there is a large difference between their portrayal of themselves in the beginning and their portrayal of themselves now. I feel that such a thing is natural, but in creating multiple accounts that sort of progression is thwarted in favour of a safety buffer against loss, thus heralding that dreaded one-dimensionality I mentioned earlier.

[quote name='Yrthilian' date='27 May 2010 - 03:54 PM' timestamp='1274993687' post='60477'] I am sorry i have to disagree with you here. The creation of ALt's is productive in many ways. Looking at why people create an alt is in its self intresting. I am a vet, withing this system. I happen to also have a larg number of alt accounts and not intencionaly.[/quote] How do you unintentionally have a large number of alts? That doesn't make any sense. Do you create them in your sleep? This simply isn't possible. [quote]I can also argue your point about trying thing in real life. I for one have done something simlar in RL that i tried out and then droped. But i could only do it one way.[/quote] I would argue that you [i]chose[/i] to do it one way, whatever it was, because there is never only ever one option. There is usually a sea of them. Therefore, you limited yourself to a single choice, and that's not what this is about. [quote]That is to say i did it online. This is in its self a NEW skin using the internet to portray something about you that you dont do in RL. I will say from persional experience with this real i have done things i would not have done in RL but treat what i do here as something i would want to try. I have then been able to adapt myself after testing this change online. So even though in RL i cant change my skin i can how ever do something and decide if i wish to adapt my life to that new way.[/quote] In the end, it is still you making the choice, and so you've not really shed anything. Most peoples' first characters tend to be the closest to themselves personality and decision-wise. What you're describing is a sim, and I don't think MD is, or is meant to be, a sim in the slightest. It is meant to pull upon what you already know, or don't know and/or realize, in reality in order to affect the situations that have been created here. [quote]There have been many characters created by a single player look at Mur, KC, Shade sentinal, BigC, Wodin i am sure there are many mkore created that thoes players managed to keep from crossing the line. I know i have 2 other alts that have very little interaction and in no way use the knowledge Yrth has gained.[/quote] I personally think Mur is a bad example. Mur, as the Creator, really has no choice but to create everything you see around you, including some of the characters you need to interact with in order to progress in the puzzles he lays out for you. I feel he's exempt from this debate. And, if you're one of the ones that's not managed to keep things separate, then my post really wasn't intended for you. [quote]The whole reason for beeing allowed alts is to try a new path that you decided you would not go with a diffrent character.[/quote] I already mentioned previously that just making a new character every time you don't want to sacrifice a previous situation in order to move into a new one in the end merely creates a landscape of empty entities that are very one-sided. It is our experiences in many different fields that shapes who we are in an environment, and if we sequester and seal off each separate experience, we've gained nothing but a bunch of facets that cannot work together due to their compartmentalization. [quote]I also just wanted to say. you mention that the MD cube and us is unnatural. Are you sure what we are in MD in unnatural. I disagree but this i think you need to figure out for yourself [/quote] I will quote Mur: "[i]The cube is the created bx around your soul and mind. [u]It is not a natural construction[/u], or it would have been a sphere.[/i]" Therefore, we are not organic, and thus I do not think that we as inorganic entities should be able to produce that which is organic unless, of course, as I also said before, that such a paradox is intended to be one of the many mysteries of MD.

In my experience, if you're truly going to implement an alt character, or a "second" (or even a "third") as I've grown accustomed to calling them, it is absolutely best to not even let on that you are someone else that everyone already knows. If you're out to be a new person, [i]be[/i] that new person- why do they have to know you are also so-and-so? Be anonymous. Be so anonymous that you even have a separate forum account that is its own entity also. I'm sure some are already doing things like this, but it seems the more well-known players are more keen on advertising the fact that they have yet again created someone new to the very heavens themselves instead of getting into a role, picking a path, and letting others around you respond to [i]that[/i] new entity instead of according to their preconceptions of a previous incarnation that may or may not still walk the land. Carrying biases over from one account to another is also extremely counter productive, I think. Unless, of course, your plan is to go to the ultimate extreme with it. Another problem is creating a new entity that is naturally at odds with your main/original character. If you create someone new, they should most likely not cross paths at all in any sense, and yes I think that's possible- it would be one of the challenges of playing a new role. However, in the end, what I really think should happen is this: There should be no alts/seconds/thirds. You are yourself as you enter into MagicDuel, and you decide where you go and what you do and when you do it. When you want to try something totally new, do you, in real life, get to shed your skin and step into a new one just so you don't lose what you already have? No. You decide if the new thing, whatever it is, is really worth it, and you [i]make sacrifices[/i] to go a new way. This, I feel, is what gives a person, a character, depth and history that is vital to a long-surviving realm such as this. If everyone just creates a new account whenever they want to try this or that out, we are merely left with a land full of shallow, one-dimensional entities that are unable to be learned from without them crossing lines and using knowledge from another account to aide and abet another one. Child bearing, in any other setting, could work, I think. But in MD, we are all technically man-made entities within a cube that have somehow garnered a mind of our own, so how can something unnatural commit something so natural as conceiving and giving birth? I think it goes against the ethics and mechanics of the place to be able to cause something like that. Love is possible as you find other entities like unto yourself. Marriage, sure. But I don't feel that, here, you can create something organic from that which is inorganic, unless of course such a thing is yet another mystery in this great land. [u]disclaimer[/u]: Before my own opinions arouse any sort of suspicion about myself, I'd like to step outside of things and say, formally, that I will never have any sort of alt (for I'd be a hypocrite if I did, after saying what I have above), or have ever existed previously, in MD. I'm merely another new face in the crowed, and my opinions here are based on my observations thus far in exploring and traveling through MD.

"[i][url="http://www.amazon.com/Chalice-Robin-McKinley/dp/0441018742/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1274984821&sr=8-2"]Chalice[/url][/i]" by Robin McKinley. I'd highly suggest her work, especially this new one. Her stories are very subtle, and often days after reading it, you'll suddenly be somewhere completely random and have an epiphany of some sort about a story element. Perhaps it is very 'MD' in that sense.

Perhaps the missing papers that were mentioned before have little to do with what the book actually is. Perhaps there actually are seven, and it has to do with destination, as a cube itself also has to do with destination. [spoiler]To get to anywhere in space and time, one must have six points- one on each wall of a cube- to create the destination, and one point outside of the cube as the point of origin. If we are all inside of one cube already- busted open or not- we would need to know the coordinates of the destination cube (aka what represents each wall of the other cube we're trying to get to) in order to transfer ourselves from this cube to gain entry into another cube. Perhaps this is far fetched, and I don't know all the details involved here, but when I heard 'cube' and 'seven papers' mentioned together, it made perfect sense to me. To me, another cube equals another destination- not necessarily that it holds something free-floating within. For instance, each individual exists inside of a cube, and so, our lives are mapped out, as it were, on the inside walls of this cube and the different 'lands' merely becoming different eras of our lives in a sense. Our dark days Necrovion, our light days Marind Bell, our contemplative days GG, our cherished memories the Archives, our innate nature Loreroot, the eastern lands our future since they are technically uncharted territories. I feel that it is not an object that we're to find inside of another cube, but another land altogether, and these papers could offer the coordinates to transport us to at least one of them.[/spoiler] Black texting eludes me, so the spoiler box will have to suffice.