changing already set location subtitle

[Liberty4life]

it came to mine attention that in tribunal location that had subtitle Jester's Street (or was it Alley?) got changed into somethin else (bah forgot into what.. noticed this few weeks ago and now remembered to post it)

some of those subtitles were set up by mur as kind of reward, hence why playername was in it, which accordin to rules of subtitles is normally forbidden, so imo its a sad thing to do to remove somethin like that

and also its even more sad if some player spends wp to put subtitle, and then somebody else comes and renames it, therefore "killin" first persons wp

wut if somebody works hard for that, and then comes somebody else that hates that person and then renames that location just becoz s/he can

me thinks that changing subtitles that are already there shouldnt be possible just like that, its one thing to put subtitle where there is none yet, and completely another thing to rename another subtitle, which results in screwin somebodys wp

and no me dont think that if renamein subtitle should just simply refund first person a wp, there still could be wars about which subtitle should be up and that wouldnt be good

imo there should be some way that would make sure that there is good reason for changin locations subtitle, and if it is good and justified reason in that case, allow change of subtitle and then refund wp to first person

but as for those locations that got named by mur as reward to some players (me and jester) really idk wut to say about that gettin changed, its really sad, even if jester aint playin anymore thats no way to threat him, and it also feels like spiting in mds history since namein of those locations happened durin the event that was part of al (openin and explorin of tribunal)... which unfortunately didnt got written to that part

[Grido]

You know there's a minimum amount of time that has to pass before a location subtitle can be renamed again, right? can't recall how long that is off hand

[Jubaris]

"at least 4 days" says the WP ability description.
But that hardly arguments Liberty's post.

Replacement of an existing subtitle should be monitored somehow... Perhaps, some kind of location allegiance should be verified, location loyalty...

[Chewett]

Espically if alts were used to do so, Say someone that didnt like jester...

[Kamisha]

well maybe in the situation of alternative accounts doing so though it being monitered likely isnt a good idea. It sounds good in theory but if somebody names a place they should be willing to fight to keep that location theres. I would elminate alts being able to get the subtitle ability but other than that I think the system works fine.

[phantasm]

i brought this topic up before. Not only was it changed from the orignal. Also included things from outside the realm of MD. While it was determined there was no copywright infringment I also thought it should not be changed. However last time most people knocked it down saying they were ok to do whatever they want and it died out. I suppose that is what will happen with this topic as well.

[Liberty4life]

thats sad thing to hear

[Esmaralda]

By your argument, I understand that you'd expect that if someone spent a WP to rename a location, then no one should be allowed to change that location as it would cheapen the experience/waste the WP of the original person.

However, there are limited locations in MD, so if a place could not be overwridden, then as time passed, there would be fewer and fewer places available for someone to change the subtitle on. Not to mention that some places are nicer and more coveted then others. That will dimish the power and relevance of that wishpoint all-together.

As for the alt concern, I would say to move this wish deeper in the wish store to ensure that no alt can use the "time in game wishes" to change a subtitle (since alts are normally not allowed to participate in WP contests, in theory, any alt should have limited WPs that they could spend).

As for rewards given by Mur himself (in this case, you mentioned Jester's Alley), if Mur wanted, he could decree that a particular location cannot be changed (indefinitely or for a certain amount of time), and implement some sort of punishment for those that abuse it or simply change it back wasting the WP of the person that changed it.

[Kamisha]

I beleve you get the wish back after its over written Esmaralda or at least that is my understanding of it. I also beleve mur can decree and lock a location to that subtitle. That being said though if mur thought the location was important enough to keep it as it was he would he didn't so we can conclude that the location was not monumental enough in Jesters image to be worth keeping or just not watching.

I will not try to put words in murs mouth so its just speculation and observation.

[Chewett]

[quote name='Kamisha' timestamp='1328024313' post='102971']
I beleve you get the wish back after its over written Esmaralda or at least that is my understanding of it.
[/quote]

really? Where did you get that impression, i didnt get that idea at all.

[Shadowseeker]

The way I understand it, there are no refunds to this wish. A rename is a rename, and it replaces anything previously done.

[Liberty4life]

esme, i dont say that locations shouldnt be renamed, i am sayin that there should be better way of doin it,becoz current way doesnt seems fair, and also system time limit simply cant work, it cant guarantee that location got renamed for just reason, there needs to be SOME LEGAL basis on this that can be brought to md court

let me give ya example why this would be so

player A has some role tied to some location and he is playin it actively, he eventually named his location with some name, then there comes player B, he says umm nice location me likes it, and then renames it, while player A was still playin actively his role, now some ppl said ya need to fight for your location, so only thing player A can do is rename it again after system allows it after x time, now maybe player B hates player A or has some w/e reason and this fight continues till end, and atm how things look like player B will win, why? becoz both players can use subtitle wish 5 times, so speakin 1v1 original owner will always lose, no to speak if ppl team up so technically a lot of stuff gets wasted

this is just one example why there cant be some system that prevents it from bein changed until x time passed, and dont forget that subtitle wish is not just there to so one could name his location in accordance of whats goin on there daily, its also meant to be used to place a mark on some locations where some big historical event happened

so as i said it aint simple as it seems, and there needs to be some legal basis to protect your own subtitle in md court of justice, ofc in case ya lost it in unfair and unjustified way

[Esmaralda]

I understand what you're saying, but I think your example is an outlier, simply because no one is allowed to name locations with names, unless special permission is given by Mur himself. As such, if a location is named as a reward because you roleplayed so well, so Mur names it after you as a gift, then Mur is the only one that should put restrictions on when/who/how that can be changed, and he certainly can if he thinks you deserve it.

Anyone else using just the wishpoint can only name a location something generic, and this example will not apply. If indeed someone hates you that much that he would be willing to spend his wishpoints to override a generic location, well, he's paying a very expensive price for that as wishpoints are very scarce.

But these are just my opinions on the issue.

[Liberty4life]

dear esme mine point wasnt for subtitles that are given as gift by mur, ya already mentioned that in your post before that mur then should be the one to protect it if he sees fit, and thats oke imo, problem solved, mine MAIN point in here is for subtitles in general, not only for those with names, i gave that example in first post becoz there was no other example that i knew off, so ya obviously misunderstood me

so mine question again is, what about those poor players that buy subtitles with wp and it gets changed by someone else in an unjust fashion ie changin subtitle thats actual at that given moment due to activity in that location with somethin that has nothin to do with activity/events in that location

for example what to do if somebody renames followin locations while they are still performin their function
sparrin grounds into lets say park of relaxation
bob defenders hq into ... idk location of steve
sanctuary of seekers into... idk, lets say nobles palace

all those examples above would be unjustified changes of subtitle and trashin of still actively performed role activity, in case that described function was still active and that new one doesnt have any foundations or wut so ever

so me askin for one hundered and first time, wut can be done if somethin like that happens? from wut i know there is nothin to do about it, while there should be some way of bringin it to court

[Chewett]

mail mur and council about it... surely they will have the final say in saying if a change is ok, and the power to revert it freely also.

[Fyrd Argentus]

Um, Liberty, yes those would be hostile acts. But.... this is a game -- what's wrong with conflict and waste? What's wrong with getting your supportors to help you to stake a claim? It adds another dimension to this multi-faceted realm that is MD.

You want to preserve history? Do it via a story on the forum.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Fyrd Argentus

[Pipstickz]

[quote]The new title will remain forever untill someone else changes it and for at least 4 days.[/quote]
It says in the description of the wish that the title can be changed, that's fair warning. If you buy the wish, I think it's reasonable to assume that you read the description, and knowingly decided to take the risk that your wish would essentially be worthless if someone else wanted to overwrite your title. If you're one of the people who got the subtitle with your name in it, which you happen to be, then you should consider yourself lucky that it happened at all. If somebody wants to waste a WP calling Howling Gates "Stinky Corpse Quarantine Zone Entrance", then let them. If somebody cares enough, has enough time, or has enough community support, then they will get the subtitle changed eventually.