New combat system

[Glaistig]

Well I was pretty happy when I read the update about the new combat system. I got the impression that it was meant to stop people from farming losses and irresponsibly giving easy wins to others, which is something that bugs me a bit. When I was reading it, it sounded good in theory, although problems may arise later.

Then I noticed that I got a victorious when someone used two healing creatures in a ritual... what? I reread the annoucement log and it still said that in order to get a victorious both players have to lose 20% of vitality, and yet I healed more than 100% (or lost more -100%). I might have placed this in the bug forum but I'm uncertain if I'm missing something and the system is still fairly new.

Here's the end result:

~~VICTORIOUS!~~

*** Combat details (under construction). 'E' is defender, 'A' is attacker

Your honor reward for this battle: 0

Your loyalty reward for this battle: 0

Enemy honor reward for this battle: 0

Enemy loyalty reward for this battle: 0

Casualties: Defender:-119.638%, Attacker:100%

heat A: 234 heat E: 0

logsize:188

usevitality e (you):100

usevitality a:0

looser:A

actionnr:36

rounds:4

E lost: -463vit; A lost: 1500vit; Array

(

[vars] => Array

(

[statsVp] => 120

[statsXpl] => 0

[statsAct] => 1

)

[character] => Array

(

[regeneration] => 0

[energeticimmun] => 0

[tradesense] => 0

[briskness] => 0

[initiative] => 0

[defence] => 0

[attack] => 0.08

[power] => 0.04

)

[something] => 1

)

***< combat action | Close

Does anyone else have questions about how the new system is supposed to work or why it is better than the old one? Feel free to express any opinions.

[Muratus del Mur]

system was fixed today, i made a mistake yesterday just before announceing it and i didnt tested, now it should work fine. Just as a note, if both players regenerate more than 20% (-20%) thats also good for a vitorious fight

[thrall]

from now on it shold be easyer to play and upgrade creatures

[Grido]

*EDIT* read answer to question on log, but here's something else

~~VICTORIOUS!~~

*** Combat details (under construction). 'E' is defender, 'A' is attacker

Your honor reward for this battle: 0

Your loyalty reward for this battle: 0

Enemy honor reward for this battle: 0

Enemy loyalty reward for this battle: 0

Enemy was penalised with 3 honor for loosing this fight

Casualties: Defender:-40.0939%, Attacker:37.19730%

heat A: 4370 heat E: 0

logsize:550

usevitality e (you):61

usevitality a:100

looser:A

actionnr:120

rounds:9

E lost: -939vit; A lost: 2596vit;

Array

(

[vars] => Array

(

[statsVp] => 168.3

[statsXpl] => 0

[statsAct] => 0

)

[character] => Array

(

[regeneration] => 0

[energeticimmun] => 0

[tradesense] => 0

[briskness] => 0.102

[initiative] => 0

[defence] => 0

[attack] => 0

[power] => 0

)

[something] => 1

)

I thought that both players had to lose 20% to get a victorious?

[ugauga]

It's 20% or -20%

[thrall]

i gues it only takes the loser to have more than 30% more damage than you and to have more than 20% of creature ve lost to get a victorious battle

at least my fight show this

[Akasha]

Hmm i can't wait to test the new combat system

[dst]

Hmm i can't wait to test the new combat system

you should, it's unballanced

I have a great rit with huge combo, it I use it, most of the times i don't get a VICTOR.

But the bad part of this is that people will have hard time to keep balanced.

Before the new system, the system was balanced (sum of all wins and sum of all loses were equal).

Now, because of this system, the difference will increase.

People will no longer stay at willow shop, and ... maybe the fun will disappear.

[Grido]

it's harder to get wins now, what about imposing a similar regulation on losses? or would that not work?

*EDIT* does anyone know why everyone started congregating at willows?

[dst]

Now the losses counter increases much faster than the wins counter, so perhaps a limitation for losses should be implemented very soon.

Otherwise, we won't be able to have "balanced" profiles from now on.

Also, it's very possible that people won't gather in public places as often as until now (Willow shop), because they will get too much losses.

[Jonn]

Before the new system, the system was balanced (sum of all wins and sum of all loses were equal).

Not entirely true. At mp3 you need 100 wins to go to mp4, we all know that and we all know that we have to keep our profile balanced...but not all mp3 knows that, so many of them entered/enter mp4 with more wins than losses. That fucks up the mp4 balance and the mp5 balance is even more fucked up. The sum of all wins and losses should be equal int the theory, but there's a tendency in the mp3 group that then leave when they first emerge from story mode because they get attacked so much and loose (ppl are not used to 'loosing is good') and BANG, the losses are lost forever

Give the new system a change and remember that things can ALWAYS be changed again

[Grido]

so idealy to balence things out a bit, we need to get some mp3's to go into mp4 with a ridiculous amount of losses compared to their 100wins?

[phlegmtheorem]

This is going to make it hard for those of us with balanced profiles to get honor. There are more and more people running around with tons of losses... I don't mind not having wins count, but you need to rework the loss/honor system if this is how it's going to be.

here is an example:

I have been trying to keep track, and only about 33% of my wins are counting under the new system. So I need to attack 3 times as much for wins (Or i hand out three times as many losses as losses i need to take to keep my profile balanced). I know that i'm unique in that I have a strong profile for my MP level - but i'm assuming other people are finding a similar situation.

If this continues, then we're running the balance system into the ground... You'd need to have MP3s come up to MP4 with SICK w/l ratios to keep the game balanced (like 100-33). And even if it does happen, then what is happening to the MP3s who ARE taking all the losses when they get to MP4? It has to balance out eventually. It's impossible for all of the MP3s to come in with a 100-33 record (unless all the guys that keep losing quit the game).

Eventually we'll all either have to stop attacking when our profile is balanced, or risk going to -500 honor. Think about it. It's just math.

**edit**

It also appears to be buggy. Here is a fight that I just finished:

Casualties: Defender:89.85673%, Attacker:66.32026%

heat A: 0 heat E: 0

logsize:1125

usevitality e (you):50

usevitality a:100

looser:E

actionnr:120

rounds:9

E lost: 9408vit; A lost: 9977vit;

I did NOT get a win for this fight. Because I lost more vitality than he did? That's ridiculous.

[thrall]

from my point of wiew this will erase FARMING from this game

some complaine about the new sistem but look a little back: you where complaining about farming and geting to much wins and how they r not able to have a high or positive honor

the new sistem is GOOD, mayby it neads a little work, but is good, you no longer have to make suicide rituales to have losses, they will come to you eventualy, now you have to strugle to get those wins to get your character balance

even if you r declared, after a battale, winer your creature still gets the won fight, so there is no problem there, the only problem will be now to kep your wins close to your losses

R YOU UP TO IT?

[Glaistig]

Even if I end up getting a hugely unbalanced ratio of losses to fights, I much prefer this system than the previous one. Loss farming is very tedious and mundane, where getting victories is a challenge that requires strategy; this time, the thing in demand, victories, cannot be easily gathered with cheap tactics the way losses were. I'm sure if there needs to be tinkering with the difficulty level of achieving victories then that can be managed, but the concept itself seems fine for me.

[necro]

Now the losses counter increases much faster than the wins counter, so perhaps a limitation for losses should be implemented very soon.

Otherwise, we won't be able to have "balanced" profiles from now on.

I agree. Unless a new limitation for losses is implemented the balance will always be messed up. And it will be very annoying to make it balanced. Of course it becomes more challenging to increase your counters, but it gets frustrating if the losses counter doesn't have a limitation too...

I really think this matter should be taken in consideration!!!

[Akasha]

Uhh i can't wait more:D i understand it's a challenge to get wins:D:D that means i won't do 100s of def rituals no more clicks:(

[Gilead]

I think in one or two weeks everyone will have enough losses. Therefore everyone will hide in sanctuarys, to prevent from getting unbalanced. It could get rather boring to have noone to kick asses.

[Lulu]

I think in one or two weeks everyone will have enough losses. Therefore everyone will hide in sanctuarys, to prevent from getting unbalanced. It could get rather boring to have noone to kick asses.

Yup, I had 230 more wins than losses when the new system was implemented. It's a difference of 49 now.

EDIT: I really need to tell Lulu to log out of her account when she's done on this computer >_> I meant to post on my account (Glaistig).

[omegaweapon]

gettting wins is as easy as gettting loss

u forget that if u change something u just change the strategy atleast most of time

the strategy is to have life stealer and healer easy i dunno what will happen if u use regeneration

all in all i dont think this change is a good thing u just make the game more complicated and it mean less people to join

who will join a game that must have lots of policy the best way is to have some little simple policy i think this new change make things harder and less fun

i personaly hate balance fight but i accept it as a part of game and i think this new change is only to cover the problem of having balance fight

[Gilead]

The main goal of the battle system is to provide many peoples for fights. The balance and honor has been introduced to make it necessary to loose fights, to reward people for loosing fights with Balance. With the new system this has been levered out.

Some ideas to solve this one, before it gets a problem:

1) Remove VP from Regencounter, introduce a Arena, where winners and loosers get rewarded for fighting from the spectators

2) the old system, with the option for some moderators to delete some wins, to make an overall balance for the game

3) Everyday calculation of all active players yesterday according to mp level. Summing up all their wins vs losses and add this value to everyones balance -> so everyone has to get balanced everyday, and too many overall wins/losses in the world would be no problem

4) give a bonus/malus for stats if win/loss ratio is out of balance

5) make fights cost more ap depending on win/loss statisics of last hour could prevent from loss farming

@mods: could you join all these win/loss discussions in one folder?

[Metal Bunny]

Don't know about nr.1...kinda weird, don't know why.

nr.2. The game is supposed to run on it's own, and not needing help from mods every few days.

nr.3. If you balance everybody, you would give people who got more losses than wins a hard time. It would be unfair.

nr.4. There is already a bonus for balance and a penalty for to low honor (to many won fights)

nr.5. That could be an option, but like nr.1. I have no idea how that would work out.

[AdlerGr]

just a few ideas about the fight system:

a) reduse the min honor from -500 to a much sorter number (for example -100)

b) the way it is right now it is not only harmless to get a huge number of looses but it is also highly recommented. so to prevent people from farming looses add a limit to looses too (for example if one has 50 looses more than wins then he has higher regeneration time an so on...)

c) create an algorythm that includes both the win-lost radio and the vitality (of the creatures or the player) to calculate the honor tha the winner shall get if he wins the battle. (it is a little odd to win someone that has only 125 creature vit and be rewarded with 30 honor points, don't you think?)

[Muratus del Mur]

first of all ... there will be ALWAYS a number of players to complain on ANYTHING.

Consider me ignorant, but your complains or compliments dont influence my decisions regarding the game engine and overall game balance. What does influence me, are your tendencies to play. For example, if players farm losses and by doing that they turn the game into a boring thing, there will be more limitations or changes to that. The equaly ballanced fights win=losses had a huge flaw in the practical application. In theory, it was a good thing, but when it came to how players actualy use it it turned out that losses were much more easier to get then wins, you all know that. That lead to a hunt for losses, turning the entire thing upside down, with too dificult strategies to follow and understand.

The new system is far from perfect of course, but its a system that will grant you the benefits of winning without unbalancing the win/lost count in favor of wins. That should be like a counterweight to the currently unbalanced way of play.

The actual results we will see in the long run, at least a month from now, and based on that i will do further changes to adapt the system as needed.

If you remember, other changes raised voices among you , such as the honor penalty for losing, and you now live with it and its doing well.

Anyway, if there is something to change later about this, it will be to shift the -500 limit to be something else (maybe no more combat reward) and to make a millitary rank based on wins...this is a small plan for the future but dont count on it.

And regarding your remark that new players will be scared by the many policyes in this game , my vision about this is that the game should have MANY policies, very very complicated ones, so that you quit on following them, but the overall ggameplay should be stable and easy in a natural way. Thats a reson i dont disclose many of the internal values, triggers, caps etc, you dont know about them but you know things "dont work in that way" or "they work better like that".

As an example: low vitality rituals, i prefere to tell

"do not use rituals with very weak creatures or other creatures will be autoselected for the fight"

than

"use over 299 vitality for your creature to avoid auto ritual triggering"

The "policies" of this game are more simple than you think if you dont start to take one and every "rule" individualy but think at the whole picture.

[phlegmtheorem]

you're only partially right. you can't make everyone happy... but complaints DO matter when they are real issues. Are you tracking game playing habits such as hiding in a sanctuary to not get to many losses, then running around the world looking for players to attack and get positive honor - not finding any, then going back to a sanctuary to hide again? It's getting really lame. I was able to collect 1 actual victory last night and about 3 other 'wins' that didn't count without losing honor. today, i couldn't find any fights. not good. perhaps this is just a transition phase and things will magically work themselves out - but i don't think it will without intervention.

i'm not worried about getting victories and not wins. i'm worried about so many losses being handed out, and the impact on the honor system. it's happening very fast.

sooo, i will wait with you to see what happens. i, however, will be doing it from the safety of a sanctuary and just letting my creatures age.