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In the meeting http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/15315-the-big-meeting We discussed Visc a bit, I presented my idea and a number of people presented theirs.


The primary motivation to change visc in some way is that I do not believe that MP3's should have to stop for it during the tutorial. This is not something that I have discussed with Mur but really feel it is crippling the number of MP3's that leave before the tutorial ends. The story mode at the end of it will likely be changed once AUTUMN2050 is complete


My idea is in essence to change visc to be a percentage modifier rather than an absolute one, possibly with a cap on the number of AP it adds to the scene.


This will mean that new players shouldnt struggle with the normal scenes whereas the higher AP scenes will still act as a barrier. This may require rebalancing some of the scenes out again.

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I hate viscosity (and I always did) more then anyone else due to my activities.

But having the viscosity concept removed for being difficult is indeed the easiest way to handle it and not the brightest.


Lets see some arguments:

 - (V)iscosity was introduced to prevent ppl from traveling too fast (as the limitation of visiting all in one day is done by exploring points)

 - V. is more troubling to some then to others due to age, ap & unexplored paths


So, I will have to add one more thing before going for a solution: the concept is "new" and "raw".


Having the above additions ("new" and "raw") should trigger some thoughts : maybe they are not wrong but not configured.

I know, I know Mya beat me to it :


If the programming wouldn't be too difficult, here's my idea on the viscosity change:


MP3=viscosity max of +10

MP4=viscosity max of +25 (limited time before going to +40)

MP5=viscosity max of +40 as soon as you hit MP5/5 (during story mode your numbers are different)



Thea idea is that when something "new" and "raw" is not working you don't discard it but you configure / tune it .



My proposals for viscosity are :

1. have theresholds for viscosity based on age and MP level . I will write something below, the values can be debated but the idea is to give a starting point:

 - ANY MP less then 10 AD should stick to 1 AP / step within NML & 10 outside

 - ANY MP less then 30 AD should have 5  / 15

 - old MP3 should remain to 10 / 25

 - MP4 less then 100 AD should have 10 / 20

 - old  MP4 should remain to 20/30

 - greater MP (MP5, MP6, MP7...) less then 100 AD should have 10/20

 - greater MP (MP5, MP6, MP7...) less then 300 AD should have 20/30

 - greater MP (MP5, MP6, MP7...) that are older can / should handle this 40 viscosity


2. Allow MP5 to use an option to use more AP / step

Usually you spend 1 AP / step + traveling expenses.

What if I could choose to spend 2 AP to double the effect of lowering the viscosity or 4 AP  to make the effects 4 times ? with a maximum of spending 8 AP / 8 times the effect.


I know, you will say that I could gain volition very fast. True but that is the purpose of this post.


So, allowing to just one person to lower the viscosity could be kept in reasonable limits even in foreign lands (I will never say that ppl will do it all the time) .

This would, for example, allow me to use 8x for LR to walk one way then 2-4h later to still able travel & search with reasonable viscosity.




@Chewett: I don't know if your proposal is good or bad. I know that it is just another "new" and "raw" idea and your change seems greater then just viscosity tuning.

Keep it in mind, maybe it can be added / tuned into the current version somehow.



Have fun

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I'm still reading through the meeting logs, but my initial thought was also to simply apply some sort of algorithm to Visc based on Mind Power.


The math below is hardly "fair' but should illustrate the concept.

Viscosity needed = (ScentVisc * (MP/10))

[log='maths r tuff']

So for example 

V = (80 * .3)  for a mp3,  = (max of 24)

V = (80 * .4)  for mp4  = (32)

V = (80 * .5) for MP5 = (40)

V = (80 * .6) for Protectors (48 max)


Protectors are slightly penalized here, yes, I admit, but to be a Protector, you have support of the realm, and hopefully know your way around, as well as getting the benefits of Prot-Spells and Heat and such, so it kinda balances out in my mind.


Additionally, we could encourage the use of Tea.   It's been tried before, but lost steam. (pun intended).  Tea is lovely for helping burn through viscosity.




Granted, perhaps changing the "max" from 80 is also probably needed, using that system.   All numbers are subject to change for balance.  I merely used them as "examples" of my thoughts.

Edited by Maebius
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Newbie speaking (and because I wrote about viscosity earlier this week):

first, i agree, there should be a deterrent from keeping new players from having access to every scene.  The pressing theme I have been getting as a new player is PATIENCE.  And truthfully, that patience is imperative to understanding this game. 


My biggest contention with viscosity now (as mp4) is that No Man's Land and Marind Bell (up to Wind's sanctuary) should be more accessible. 


And although I agree an algorithm is called for to lower viscosity by a percentage per game level, not every player at each game level has achieved the same things so for me, that rationale is akin to assigning the same GPA score for a student that gets a 90% and a student that gets a 99%.  In other words, if an algorithm is to be applied, it should be based more on player skill - say vital energy, value points, current AP, etc and not so much on game level.


I still hold to my original thought, that players should walk the scenes regularly.  Perhaps it could be a quest or become part of the training to get to mp4;  a way to teach new players that seeing all the scenes is beneficial to game progression?


I hope that my thoughts have at least some value even though I am new to this realm.  Newness is not an indication of observation and contemplation.  I haven't missed a day since I began the game and I talk to people in every scene.

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We can make a spell barrel to clean the path of the newbies. this spell you can cast to aramory or to paper cabin and epic to all land with 1ap to explore the realm

Active Days from the beginning to 250 days this spell epic for the newbies

Spell Name: Athenna


Heats: 4100

Cast: 15/15

Edited by Eagle Eye
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@EE: you don't need 15 casts

All you need is to have a few ppl with just 4 casts each

Or you can have, as I said above, different viscosity behavior.


Anyway, current solution does solve noob's walking problem and it even helps those that don't need it. ;)

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