MD Titles budget

[Muratus del Mur]

For the md titles there are several things that need paid for, i will enumerate them here for now and think based on your response how to proceed. Most if not all of the expenses i am able to cover for the first batch, the problem is that on the long term, a more flexible financing method is needed, so i start to plan one now.

 

1) fixed one time costs (zinc blueprint, stamp, uv ink, darkglow, etc) - covered!

Thank you to the only two people that offered their financial support back long time ago when i started this

 

2) printing and foil processing for each batch. Currently i am thinking to make batches of 50 or 100 papers ...i don't know yet if its ok or other numbers would be better.

Needs to be paid each time i issue a new batch, fixed price

 

3) shipping from here to the first granting authority

Needs to be paid each time i send, varies depending to how many people i send and to what countries

 

4) shipping from the first granting authority to the final owner of the title OR shipping to the second granting authority (in case the first authority is not me)

This will be a problem, some people will not want to pay or can't afford paying the shipping for all the docs they will send. Imagine kings for example, a lot of docs will go through their hands and they need to pay the shipping. I  plan to offer them support through a community effort, from this budget.

 

The costs at point 1 are covered right now for enough papers to complete the implementation of these docs and for each that deserves one to receive one. Probably soon I will need more, we shall see.

For points 2 and 3 i will be able to cover the first round, but of course I won't say no to any financial support if anyone offers.

For point 4, this is complicated. I think this needs to be discussed on each case independently, and we will talk based on concrete numbers once we get to that last step.

 

This budget will be taken from the purchased credits, but because right now there is no integrated method to chose where the credits you purchase go, i will do this manually. This means that you will be able to purchase x credits "manually" by contacting me, and specify that you wish for the funds to go to the MD Titles budget. Please don't start doing this yet, i need to get organized first, and i might assign someone to deal with this soon. For now this is the plan.

 

I hope its not needed to say that regardless how much you will help or sponsor with the budget for the titles this will not give you any advantages or priority regarding such docs. If you are not on the list to receive one, you will not receive one regardless how much you will contribute. (same way like with credits, you buy credits afterall, this is just a redirecting of the funds)

[Muratus del Mur]

UPDATE:

credit purchased manually to support this budget are at a fixed rate of 1$=1credit with no bonus for larger ammounts, but you can buy any ammount (for example 27credits) instead of the fixed shop credit packs.

 

contact me via email (mur@magicduel...) with the ammount you wish to purchase and i will give you details what to do.

 

 

In this way its much easier for me to manage and separate these payments and also shows you are willing to support this cause not just prefer to bug me with a manual payment instead of the automated shop payment.

 

 

PLEASE try to avoid the default shop packs, so if you want 20 credits, pick either 19 or 21 just not 20, so it will be easier for me to differentiate the payments later.

[Rophs]

Is payment via cryptocurrencies acceptable?

[Chewett]

Is payment via cryptocurrencies acceptable?

No.

This budget will be taken from the purchased credits, but because right now there is no integrated method to chose where the credits you purchase go, i will do this manually. This means that you will be able to purchase x credits "manually" by contacting me, and specify that you wish for the funds to go to the MD Titles budget. Please don't start doing this yet, i need to get organized first, and i might assign someone to deal with this soon. For now this is the plan.

If we have the coin for this, why are we not spending it on advertising?

[Chewett]

EDIT:

I mean I understand why we arnt pouring money into it now because of A25, but I always have some issues with using MD's money for more random things. Its yours, you can do what you want with it, but if it means that when A25 is done we dont have money, im a little unsure.

As for "this will make MD have a social structure" we already have one, adding paper titles wont make it any more offical.

Its a fun idea and I hope you enjoy it Murry, just ensure we have monies to cover the server fees and for some ads later :)

Edited August 20, 2014 by Chewett

[Kamisha]

If we have the coin for this, why are we not spending it on advertising?

 

I do have to agree with the Wookie on this one we are a community bleeding players (slowly maybe) but still bleeding faster than we can issue a transfusion. 

 

I like the idea and I will certainly not stand in the way of it but there is a budget to balance here and we are broke by the end of it it sort of defeats the authority of a paper document if you don't have the title in game to execute the authority with.

 

I would also like state for any future documents we should think of a date to send these out in one wave as opposed to one document at a time. That could save a few dollars as time progresses at least on MD's end. Send like 20 docs in 4 envelops one for each signing authority needed. However from the point of the second authority things get dicey since they need to send it to each person individually. Give me a second.. postage alone of each individual document and I will look at 50 for simplicity sake will likely cost average $3 USD for the full trip on postage alone for 50 documents totalling $150. Its not terrible but still a substantial cost overall 

[Muratus del Mur]

investing in advertising till A25 is fully functional, is suicidal. 99% of new players quit at the start right now, first couple of days. If a25 won't be ready this year these docs are last thing that remain from md, at least i'll make them worth remembering :P

 

Title docs might not change the social structure, but will give much more value to the tags and their meaning. It will also increase quality player retention. If you look at the current community, you will see it is based mostly on people that deserve such a doc. Investing in them at this point might seem pointless from a business perspective, i can't argue about that, so see it as a gift from me. If i can cover some of the costs on this is great because it will leave md economy unaffected, but i can't sustain it on the long run. However, on the long run, after I send these docs now, It will be a MUCH lower number of docs sent. Think how many new tags are given per month... each will receive a doc. Its not that much, and people that manage to receive a tag are valuable enough for us to do everything possible to make them enjoy their time here as much as possible.

 

3$ per trip sounds real, consider 2 trips per doc, plus manufacturing cost. It will be about 10$/doc in total (variable, i don't have exact numbers yet). 10$ per doc, will make that player to respect md roles a lot more and value everything that md means much more. Its called loyalization and in time it might mean the difference between a player spending 6mo in md or 6 years. Not to mention that this might bring back some ancient valuable but inactive players back.

 

Its a fantasy of mine, true, but i feel md is missing something without some form of achievable, collectible, touchable 'thing' for advancing in it.

 

i am only very sorry i can't receive such docs myself,..i would go crazy trying to collect more :)))

 

 

I hope i am not doing anything too wild, but i strongly believe that this is something good for md.

[Kamisha]

As I said I wont stand in your way I just want you to see what you might run into.

[Azthor]

As I said I wont stand in your way I just want you to see what you might run into.

 

Though I believe you had only meant to reinforce your position, I hope you will understand when I say you have come off rather unnecessarily condescending. That said, I can only emulate that which was said by Chewett and yourself, respectively.

 

Those who have donated to the game are unlikely to be particularly bothered by this, as, regardless of their own opinion on the matter, only that amount specifically donated to this purpose will be used. I find that a rather important point, even if, in practice, the money is Mur's once donated.

 

Those who have invested an exceptionally large amount of time in the game, on the other hand, do deserve a greater measure of liability from Mur, as the donations for the titles budget will overlap, at least to a minor extent, with the usual venues of donation. That is for them to present, however.

 

Even then, as Kamisha has presented, the costs are unlikely to be astounding.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Azthor

[Rophs]

Its a fantasy of mine, true, but i feel md is missing something without some form of achievable, collectible, touchable 'thing' for advancing in it.

 

i am only very sorry i can't receive such docs myself,..i would go crazy trying to collect more :)))

http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/gallery/image/797-any-guesses-as-to-what-this-might-be/

Wasn't Z's black letter also more or less similar to this title madness?

[Chewett]

http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/gallery/image/797-any-guesses-as-to-what-this-might-be/
Wasn't Z's black letter also more or less similar to this title madness?

Yeah... I was promised one of them too. Oh well.

[dst]

From what I know black letters are quite hard to make and Mur was..lazy :P to do more :P.

[Muratus del Mur]

black letters take looooong time to make, and their creation was ENTIRELY dependent on me. The creation process could be automated, but their alue is given by what is written in them and that has to be personal and connected with arious other things in md. The Titles are just partial dependent on me, till i hand them over to the postman, after that its other people responsability to complete and send them...that means they have _A LOT_ more chances to become 'real'

 

black letters remain something very very cool, maybe one day, or if someone will emerge to deal with their creation, they might continue.

 

(I am a bit offended by you considering the titles a "madness", i wonder if you receive one, will you just throw it away in a basket together with the bills?)

[Azthor]

It was likely meant as a figure of speech for how unusual the entire affair is. Quite frankly, it is verily nonstandard, which is also, often enough, a significant source of wariness.

[Rophs]

It was likely meant as a figure of speech for how unusual the entire affair is. Quite frankly, it is verily nonstandard, which is also, often enough, a significant source of wariness.

This, and if I am to receive a title then I will almost certainly frame it and put it on my wall.

[phantasm]

I personally think this title thing is awsome.  SOME of us wether active latly or not have spent ALOT of time and money both on this game.  I personally know i spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars on the game, as well as several years.  Inactivity over the last year, which lets face it, is most people ESPECIALLY the ones who have played a long time.  THE PEOPLE of MD used to keep us coming back and playing, now it seems more people, who are active,  want to spend time bickering and whining about other people to make it worthy of time played. 

 

If i was granted a title as such, I know I would have no problem paying for the shipping, cost, etc as long as its not like 50 bucks:D  So what about the idea as well for having those who deserve/awarded the title paying for at least points 3 and 4.  I wouldn't want Chewy, or whatever person is in charge of the titling to pay for a portion or any of the fees for my title.  I think ALOT of people who will be recieving titles to start with have had money to put into the game in the past.  I know I and several others who were mentioned in titles used to be, or may still be monthly payers.  I think we could handle the brunt of the title fees.

 

As far as point 2 goes, I deffinatly see that being a variable more then a constant.  As you said it's per paper order, how many tried it take to make, etc.  I think the donations for the funds to buy supplies should be the main topic.

[DARK DEMON]

It is a great idea, but I just think titles shouldn't be forced if the person doesn't want it, and the case shouldn't be like "You wont get the in-game tag too cause you're not accepting the RL document"...

[Muratus del Mur]

i don't believe in this sort of democracy when it comes to md. Just imagine for eample you are receiving a medal, or a nobiliary title in medieval ages or whatever....now think how stupid and rude it would be for you to say to the king, "yeah cool i received the title but i don't want to bother to have an actual paper for it"

 

We live in times when things can be sent by email, or kept virtual..this sort of luxury is not coherent with the kind of world md depicts. It is a virtual online game, true, call it as you wish, but this is just the exterior form used to hold something a lot less "virtual".

 

 

i am sorry but titles will not be optional.

The most i can do is award you the title and ask you twice if you wish to receive it or not, if you do not want to, i will burn it, and film/photograh it as proof..then you can remain with the virtual part of it.  I could also ship it to a standard location to someone i could assign to hold the rejected docs..any way it will be, i will not hold on to the rejected titles. It would be a terrible offense to do so. I am trying really hard to find ways to provide these titles to you at no cost, and i try to make them as beautiful as possible, refusing them is just a sign of "i don't give a f*", nothing more.

 

I covered most of the costs from my own pocket so far (not related to md in any way), the rest i will take from md funds through your sponsoring. So far everything is fine and i am unbelievably happy i could afford to do this, i see it as a gift i always dreamed of sending, to as many people as possible in md...and i will put a lot of soul in all of this. Md might one day vanish in virtual form, but touchable stuff will remain as its memory one day. I know on my own skin that things achieved in md change things in you _permanently_, such a thing deserves a sort of token to remember..sadly its just a paper, but at least its something.

 

 

 

ofc i am not asking you to "frame it" , or anything at all, its up to you in what forgotten drawer you will dump it, but refusing it is something totally different.

[Chewett]

I personally think this title thing is awsome.  SOME of us wether active latly or not have spent ALOT of time and money both on this game.  I personally know i spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars on the game, as well as several years.  Inactivity over the last year, which lets face it, is most people ESPECIALLY the ones who have played a long time.  THE PEOPLE of MD used to keep us coming back and playing, now it seems more people, who are active,  want to spend time bickering and whining about other people to make it worthy of time played. 
 
If i was granted a title as such, I know I would have no problem paying for the shipping, cost, etc as long as its not like 50 bucks:D  So what about the idea as well for having those who deserve/awarded the title paying for at least points 3 and 4.  I wouldn't want Chewy, or whatever person is in charge of the titling to pay for a portion or any of the fees for my title.  I think ALOT of people who will be recieving titles to start with have had money to put into the game in the past.  I know I and several others who were mentioned in titles used to be, or may still be monthly payers.  I think we could handle the brunt of the title fees.
 
As far as point 2 goes, I deffinatly see that being a variable more then a constant.  As you said it's per paper order, how many tried it take to make, etc.  I think the donations for the funds to buy supplies should be the main topic.

Mur is organising this, not me FYI and not all those that help lots of things with the game have lots of money. Iv only ever a small amount into the game.
 
 

i am sorry but titles will not be optional.
The most i can do is award you the title and ask you twice if you wish to receive it or not, if you do not want to, i will burn it, and film/photograh it as proof..then you can remain with the virtual part of it.  I could also ship it to a standard location to someone i could assign to hold the rejected docs..any way it will be, i will not hold on to the rejected titles. It would be a terrible offense to do so. I am trying really hard to find ways to provide these titles to you at no cost, and i try to make them as beautiful as possible, refusing them is just a sign of "i don't give a f*", nothing more.

Forcing someone to give over personal details and ridiculing them by visually burning their things? Thats poor Murry. What If I said I didnt want you to know who I was, or know my address, or my life? Would you demean me and such?

[DARK DEMON]

Forcing someone to give over personal details and ridiculing them by visually burning their things? Thats poor Murry. What If I said I didnt want you to know who I was, or know my address, or my life? Would you demean me and such?

 

Exactly. Though you may not see it, this will do the opposite of "increasing the quality of player retention", showing you do not respect their privacy.

[phantasm]

i know chewy i was using you as an example person for point 4.  Mur was saying if it went to a second authority there would be shipping costs.  I was just saying that I feel if someone is granted such a thing, that they should be willing to pay shipping cost so that Mur or anyone else doesn't have to cover it.

 

I still have my MD coffee cup and Murs book.  These are things that are tangable memories of a game that I enjoyed emmensly in the good days.  People made friends that became r/l friends.  People traveled to other countries to meet others.  I think its nice to have these things to remember friends by.  No different then friends you grew up with in school that moved away.  You don't hardly ever see them, but they are still your friends.  I think Mur is trying to go one step further by sending out personalized memorabilia that we will be able to keep and tell our grandkids about it.  I know I have plenty of great stories to tell about people and conversations in this game. 

 

I think Mur's burning comment is in frustration at people being negative about what should be a great thing.  It sounds like he is working hard on this project and is investing his own personal money to give people of MD something back.  I would be frustrated too if I was trying to give a gift to people and they went "i don't want that, and who are you to give me a gift?!"

[Muratus del Mur]

your argument about privacy is not valid. As i said you can use alternate methods to receive a LETTER. First of all your infgo will not be public, it will be given to two people at most...but lets say you are not trusting anyone at all, you can give the address of a friend or whoever you want that might receive a letter in your place or get a PO box. I am not forcing anyone to give me their home address. but telling me you can't find a decent way to receive  A LETTER, thats just fantasy or bad intention.

 

Burnig it in their face was not meant to sound like that, my point is that if you don't want the doc, at most i am willing to destroy it and provide proof of that (any way that sounds acceptable)... i will not keep rejected docs as if i am making them for myself....and to be clear, i am not forcing anyone to provide personal details, there are plenty of alternate methods to receive  a damn post.

 

Except that, i think phantasm said things exactly as they are.

[Chewett]

your argument about privacy is not valid.

Maybe not valid in your opinions, but If I said I dont want to give my address for undisclosed reasons, so what?

[DARK DEMON]

your argument about privacy is not valid. As i said you can use alternate methods to receive a LETTER. First of all your infgo will not be public, it will be given to two people at most...but lets say you are not trusting anyone at all, you can give the address of a friend or whoever you want that might receive a letter in your place or get a PO box. I am not forcing anyone to give me their home address. but telling me you can't find a decent way to receive  A LETTER, thats just fantasy or bad intention.

 

Burnig it in their face was not meant to sound like that, my point is that if you don't want the doc, at most i am willing to destroy it and provide proof of that (any way that sounds acceptable)... i will not keep rejected docs as if i am making them for myself....and to be clear, i am not forcing anyone to provide personal details, there are plenty of alternate methods to receive  a damn post.

 

Except that, i think phantasm said things exactly as they are.

 

I'm in Pakistan atm and constantly moving. I'd love a doc if I deserve one but its mostly impossible for one to reach me. Someone else may have another reason to not reveal their address.

 

What I'm trying to say, Mur, is that there will always be exceptions.

Edited August 24, 2014 by DARK DEMON

[Muratus del Mur]

i still can't agree to you, because:

@chew: as i said, no need to disclose YOUR address, there are several options to avoid that, and worse case you give a friends or work colegue address. I can ship to any provided address. This is the free option, but if you are so reluctant about your home address you are probably already using other methods to keep your address private, such as a po box.

 

@dd: your point is somehow valid, BUT, you must have some place somewhere in the world where you could pile up post and pick it up once a year. If not, you could ask it to be mailed in advance to an address you are about to visit, i can write on the envelope any needed details so it will wait for you, and even if someone else opens it, there is nothing to steal from it.

 

If you don't want it, or if you are just trying to make a theoretical point, thats something else...but i am sure that if you want it for real you find a way to receive it.