Unit Limits: Angiens, Drachorns & Archers

[Rophs]

Not exactly balanced, more like perfectly imbalanced. These people explain it better then I do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w

[dst]

Thanks captain obvious.

[Rophs]

You're welcome. Always glad to answer a question to the best of my degree but please do not refer to me as captain. I am most certainly not a captain.

 

[spoiler]

*bows* m'lady

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law

[/spoiler]

 

edit: fixed stuff

Edited October 9, 2014 by Rophs

[Burns]

No, combat isn't balanced for an MP4. For anyone who does combat, MP4 is a transition, and its sole purpose is to build you up for the real deal. Thus, it doesn't require any balance. When you are built up high enough, you are supposed to steamroll through your opposition and reach MP5 rather quickly.

[Ary Endleg]

Except you can stay at MP4 and train endlessly, so no you don't reach MP5 at all since you are having a blast down there.

 

As for creature boosts and creature limits. Sharps have super good boost, their downside is that they don't have target all and no freezing. Currently how things stand if you want to nerf one of creature limits then you basically need to nerf all of them for every damagers by one. It would drop down the ridiculous numbers inside the log and lower the gap between strong and weak, but aside from that not much. Even with this said I'm still for it.

Edited October 9, 2014 by Ary Endleg

[Tal]

with my attack of 81756

 

all 6 crit rits

 

2 windy, 1 gg                    = 66k damage

3 bp 1 heretic                   = 82k damage on average

2 rusty, 1 GG                    = 86k damage on average

3 sharp, 1 lr archer          = 260k damage on average

3 sharp, 1 lr archer 2 imp = 580k on average

4 imps                              = 68k damage on average

for the imps, didnt have grassans to test with, but from memory it should get boost from the imps, to do as much damage as bp/drach rits

 

in damage all, bp and drach rit don't differ much. only thing drach has for it is the freezing, and the weaken all it shares with the grassan. and that you only need 3 slots.

if you want 1 very strong crit that demolish almost everything in time, sharp rit has a better boost.

 

to me balance seems rather fine. only thing annoying is the freezing ability on crits. if you want to make it less of a who has the most freezing, a changing to a chance to freeze goes a long way.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Tal

[No one]

Thank you Tal.

:) what took you this long ?

[Tal]

takes a while to read these wall of texts :P

[Ary Endleg]

Not exactly the freezes topic but since whole discussion drifted onto them does that mean that this topic purpose for further limitation of number of creatures is actually over? With agreement that doing such nerf would only lower the big numbers in logs without having any other significant effect on combat? It would also further "damage" economy by lowering trade values of such creature due to lower demand for them since player would need fewer of them.

 

Topic got split, still question stands for possible conclusion of this one.

[Tal]

added 2 windy and 1 gg to the list of rits in previous post.

they do around 66k damage. a lot weaker then most other possible crit boosting rits.

[Azthor]

Given how all the arguments seem to base themselves on auxiliary discussions, the following question stands: what is achieved by reducing the maximum number of drachorns in a ritual, likewise reducing the maximum number of angiens and archers?

 

It does not seem to be the case - going by Tal's numbers - that the respective maximum amount of creatures for each of the respective categories generates an imbalance among them.

 

Quite the opposite, it has been argued that the reduction in their numbers would enable other rituals to compete.

 

But, by Burns' own comment when he had first suggested the change, one might then resort to employing two drachorns, two "angiens" and two morphs. In that scenario, not only would the performance of archers suffer unnecessarily, those other creatures would remain unable to compete, regardless of whether or not they should be able to compete.

 

That does, in turn, wholly deny the purpose of the modification, if I understand the situation properly.

 

Of course, if it might diminish the inflow of credits, and does not achieve anything of note, then there'd be no reason to push this forward.

 

What is the general view on the above?

 

@Burns: your own input, as the original proponent, is of particular importance here.

 

@dst & No one: you spoke of ability tweaks. While that probably concerns Freeze & Antifreeze, I am led to believe that also relates to other abilities. While this thread is less than ideal for an in-depth discussion on those, could you briefly develop on the other possibilities?

 

@No one: if you would like me to address that post of yours I said I would later comment on, I will, but I will do so in private, so as to not deviate the thread. You are, of course, free to make its contents public.

 

All opening posts have been updated.

[Burns]

It'd need some live test to see if 2 drachs 2 angiens 2 morphs does turn into a new god-like ritual, of if something new shows up that would compete with that.

 

My intention when working out those things was to reduce the front-up damages in rituals, and that definitely is the case. Whichever way you look at it, all the top things are cut by 1/3rd if you reduce their limits. Drachorns and Archers by having 1 less boost, angiens by simply being 1 less on the field.

 

And you also need to remember that i'm not the combat balancer, i'm just the drachorn master. I've worked out what changes i found viable in regard to the drachorns, because i had reasonable odds to turn them into a reality. If you want to theory-craft on a larger scale, you can put everything into doubt, and come up with things like reduced stat-scalings in all rituals or an aura-removing aura or anything else you might imagine.