Otherarmy Rituals

[Rophs]

Allow us to bind rituals with Summoned Army's creatures when attacking, or pick from a few predefined ones. Also allow cross-mp attacking.

[Ary Endleg]

Why?

[Chewett]

Allow cross mp farming generally?

[dst]

Use skill damage more effectively?

[Rophs]

Allow cross mp farming generally?

Would be a good idea if we remove the mindpower requirements on creatures

[dst]

Would be a good idea if we remove the mindpower requirements on creatures

No.

[Eagle Eye]

I seconded

[No one]

"mindpower requirements on creatures" was a long awaited and debated feature and it will never be removed (and neither "cross-mp attacking")

They are required so that new players (MP3) are protected by other older players still in lower MPs.

 

So, if you say that you are getting obliterated as a new MP5, imagine one players with attack & defense in orders of 1-10k  still in MP3 ? Well, they existed. (points to "insert name here as I forgot it").

Edited October 13, 2014 by No one

[Chewett]

"mindpower requirements on creatures" was a long awaited and debated feature and it will never be removed (and neither "cross-mp attacking")

They are required so that new players (MP3) are protected by other older players still in lower MPs.

 

Not nesscarily, There is some discussion among Mur and myself at the possibility to remove the cross MP attacking restriction. But before that happens we need a better system than the honour one to encourage strong people not to farm the weaker ones.

[No one]

A bit of topic

 

Not nesscarily, There is some discussion among Mur and myself at the possibility to remove the cross MP attacking restriction. But before that happens we need a better system than the honour one to encourage strong people not to farm the weaker ones.

 

There are, indeed, some pro and con arguments, but it would be interesting to know who started this discussion and the arguments/reasons/motivation for starting such discussion. If you'd like to share ... in another topic.

( I'm not sarcastic, but I'd really like to know what is required to change MD concepts )

[Rophs]

continuation of offtopic

A bit of topic

 

There are, indeed, some pro and con arguments, but it would be interesting to know who started this discussion and the arguments/reasons/motivation for starting such discussion. If you'd like to share ... in another topic.

( I'm not sarcastic, but I'd really like to know what is required to change MD concepts )

 

There's a massive scarcity of mp3 and mp4 players, removing/reducing restrictions on attacking would likely be beneficial to the game overall because fewer newbies would quit due to a lack of targets.

[Eagle Eye]

mp3 can attack mp4 and mp4 can attack back to mp3?

[No one]

continuation of offtopic
 
There's a massive scarcity of mp3 and mp4 players, removing/reducing restrictions on attacking would likely be beneficial to the game overall because fewer newbies would quit due to a lack of targets.

wouldn't it be easier if some of us would get some rusty old alts for that? I know, I am calling for alt abuse but MP3 only ... it could be beneficial.

[Rophs]

wouldn't it be easier if some of us would get some rusty old alts for that? I know, I am calling for alt abuse but MP3 only ... it could be beneficial.

It's become a bit of a problem for mp4 too. Perhaps we add some kind of system where if an mp5 attacks an mp4 with a lv3 grasan it gets put down to level 2 for the fight, etc

[powle]

since some creatures change their abilities and/or targeting options upon leveling up it would very likely completly break mp5's ritual

[Rophs]

Yes, that'd be a pretty big problem. Maybe allow higher MP to design one of their rits for a lower MP level? But that's adding tons of uneeded complexity to the while thing.

[Eagle Eye]

It's become a bit of a problem for mp4 too. Perhaps we add some kind of system where if an mp5 attacks an mp4 with a lv3 grasan it gets put down to level 2 for the fight, etc

mp5 lvl 3 grasan against mp4 no change the level only the ability of the grasan and the aura

[Rophs]

@EE yes, but there are creatures that change targets/ability from mp4 to mp5, such as lifestealers and an mp3 doesn't even get access to lifesteal at all.

[Eagle Eye]

mp5 lifesteal lvl 5 max against mp3 become lifesteal lvl 2 or 3 like a waterdemon abilty

[Chewett]

A bit of topic

 

There are, indeed, some pro and con arguments, but it would be interesting to know who started this discussion and the arguments/reasons/motivation for starting such discussion. If you'd like to share ... in another topic.

( I'm not sarcastic, but I'd really like to know what is required to change MD concepts )

 

Mur and I just talking. The honour system was intended to ensure that stronger people attacked stronger ones but clearly that doesnt work.The idea is being floated as a possibility at the moment. If not fully allowing them to attack and be attacked, letting them attack higher mindpowers could be a possibility.

[dst]

Chew, that is already possible (yes, not for mp3) but for mp4.

And let's be honest...an mp3 will probably never be able to beat an mp5 if that mp5 doesn't want to be defeated.

[Ary Endleg]

 

Mur and I just talking. The honour system was intended to ensure that stronger people attacked stronger ones but clearly that doesnt work.The idea is being floated as a possibility at the moment. If not fully allowing them to attack and be attacked, letting them attack higher mindpowers could be a possibility.

 

Yes, this is something that is supposed to be new topic soon-ish derived from Combat Talk. In short honor system doesn't and CAN'T work because you have two types of wins and losses, one isn't recorded while other one is. This means players can manipulate outcomes and by doing that they can bypass the limitations the system imposes on them. If you were to remove second type of outcomes and only allow recorded ones(post is mainly talking about this scenario, then heat caps and finally closed by usual combat rant), then you will be facing another problem. Even though there is high boost in honor gain as opposite to higher loss, you will have imbalance issues flying around when players that ain't balanced leave.

 

For example player has 1000 more losses than wins, he leaves the game. That means overall, you have 1000 more wins in circulation and so on as people keep leaving. Since every battle outcome is recorded to balance count. However that isn't actually a honor problem because even if there would be influx of one type of outcomes in circulation caused by game-quitting, there would still be relative balance, a point around which players would deviate. Since there would always be "stronger" and "weaker" player there wouldn't be a honor problem (plus the boosts for gaining positive honor). Instead you wouldn't have balance as it is now.

 

In that case balance wouldn't be wins=losses. Instead balance would be the middle point between two most extreme player differences (player who gives the highest honor and player who gives highest negative honor), it would be automatically done thing that would work on it's own, a dynamic balance system. However you wouldn't be able to hardcode it so that you would be able to let the player know that he is balanced, because it's impossible to say who's active fighter/player and who isn't. It would be like capitalism, where supply and demand balance is in constant shift.

 

It's a catch 22, you can't have both honor and absolute balance. This type of thing would make more sense because the player who wins is the one who gets creat wins and personal stats, while loser doesn't. However it's a bit late for putting this in action don't you think?

 

It would also mean that current "balance/honor" restrictions aren't good, such as losses cap, skilldamage and so on. Because with this dynamic balance, it could come in case that players with wins do quit, then relative balance point could shift as well as -1000 losses, which is skill damage, it's not good. Extremes could also get separated as player pool grows into huge amounts and we all know what happens with super high bonus honor. Then you have problem of how to restrain this extremity expansion, because if I want losses I could spam attacks and lose while not get punished for it while somebody who wants wins could just be passive and gather wins in defense at no honor penalty.

 

Like this meta game would change into attack-to-lose and everybody would be doing combo training because nothing else would make sense.

 

Another problem which is much bigger than honor in case you implement cross-MP fights regardless of what honor system or it's replacement you chose is HEAT CAP! One hit from MP5 to MP3 and MP3 will be capped, just like that. In that case you would have to remove heat caps, yes, for all MP levels.

 

As dst said with MP4s in alliances, situation isn't that bright and I assume that's the reason why MP4s are allowed to drop heat, because they can fight with MP5s.

 

You see, with that small simple thing you want to change (or with any other combat change for that matter), whole combat system hangs on the edge of cliff. No matter how good solution/change you apply, effects would have big consequences and chain reaction which would very likely only make whole situation worse. Combat is ticking bomb, it will blow up sooner or later. Best thing would be to redo whole thing from the scratch while preserving everything players have accomplished so far (creats, stats, etc), but it requires a ton of work.

 

I'll be bold enough to say that like this in 5 years you would be able to simply remove combat out of game and only complain would: "but how can we now get fenths". Because nobody would be fighting anymore. Even now, nobody plays this game for combat, everybody has some other reason, be it friends, RP, quests, research, politics or something else. It's funny that currently the most popular reason to train is "to get full glow achievement" seconded only by "to get stronger to be able to beat Molq guards". Combat is mostly a time waster these days, nothing competitive about it.