(Zl-eye-f)-nea Posted September 6, 2016 Report Posted September 6, 2016 (edited) Location: Various Frequency: Various Host: Zleiphneir (or one of the Helpers if he is unavailable) This is a place for people to talk. The way it runs will vary each time. We'll invite guests to give speeches, hold debates, allow you to rant about things that annoy you, talk about things youd like to see, and so on. Dates and times etc will be announced on this thread. Edited September 7, 2016 by (Zl-eye-f)-nea Lintara, Ungod, Ivorak and 2 others 5 Quote
(Zl-eye-f)-nea Posted September 11, 2016 Author Report Posted September 11, 2016 Impromptu soundscape at Bob right now, discussing what MD has too much or too little of, and ideas of what we can do to help MD. Come chat. Z Mallos 1 Quote
(Zl-eye-f)-nea Posted September 11, 2016 Author Report Posted September 11, 2016 Thanks to Mallos for starting this and to all who managed to get their butts to this, it was a really cool meeting where lots of people gave opinions good and bad. Thanks also to Chewett for coming by and giving his views and requests. Sorry if you couldn't make it - if you have something to say, have a look at the log below and make a thread if it takes your fancy. There will be more meetings though, don't worry - and if you feel like holding a meeting, just do it! The log is raw, the discussion went on for some time, gradually more people joining. Summary: Things that are frustrating people: Low playerbase, lack of payment for coders (read not enough coders), lack of general appreciation for things and nit picking instead, potential favoritism when considered unwarranted, inactive/passive LHO, alts causing helpful players to become paranoid and no longer want to help. Things we could do to improve things: work as a group, show more active energy, be innovative and put your innovation out there (shout out to Ungod and Aeo, I personally think you're doing this), log low MP alts in to let new players fight against. One coding idea (ungod apparently): Allow players to move between MP levels they have already been at. Z Reveal hidden contents [11/09/16 21:47] Mallos:Specifically, what do you think the realm is lacking (asides players) [11/09/16 21:47] Zleiphneir:well that's a good question...I could write quite the list... [11/09/16 21:48] Mallos:Any assertions? [11/09/16 21:49] Zleiphneir:hmm... [11/09/16 21:49] Zleiphneir:there is a chronic lack of energy [11/09/16 21:49] Mallos:I could attest to that lately. [11/09/16 21:50] Zleiphneir:even when you lay out something on a platter for people, they dont get involved, and then complain there is nothing to do [11/09/16 21:50] Zleiphneir:that is...frustrating. [11/09/16 21:50] Mallos:I think this is in part to the lower player base, as if your friends do something you are more likely to do it also [11/09/16 21:51] Zleiphneir:yes thats true [11/09/16 21:52] Zleiphneir:soething else, which is not a popular opinion... [11/09/16 21:52] Zleiphneir:people are not allowed to argue enough. [11/09/16 21:52] Zleiphneir:sometimes, the huge flame wars are what motivates people and gets them fired up. [11/09/16 21:52] Zleiphneir:there is a fine balance to be had there, obviously. [11/09/16 21:53] Zleiphneir:what is your opinion on what MD is lacking? [11/09/16 21:53] Mallos:And you feel these are stifled a bit too quickly? Something like my topic about the Fusioneers? [11/09/16 21:53] Mallos: (which I didn't mean to be a flame war at all) [11/09/16 21:53] :Zleiphneir nods [11/09/16 21:53] Zleiphneir:water gets thrown on a them a bit too swiftly perhaps. [11/09/16 21:54] Mallos:Discussion is a big part of... anything really. I do agree more discussion can be a good thing. Your soundscape events can certainly help here [11/09/16 21:54] Zleiphneir:we'll try [11/09/16 21:54] Zleiphneir:whilst avoiding anyone going too far *chuckles* [11/09/16 21:55] Mallos:I'd tell you my thoughts but... Why do you think these arguements are not allowed or not taken enough? As in the past, this may have been an even bigger problem (due to popular opinion on "spoilers") [11/09/16 21:56] Zleiphneir:two reasons, both valid: 1) people get eprsonal and nasty and it makes the community look unwelcoming [11/09/16 21:56] Zleiphneir:2) some people get so involved that they leave as a result. [11/09/16 21:57] Mallos:Almost as if to make an example... I've seen many people leave this game, we all have [11/09/16 21:58] Mallos:Well my opinions are likely to not be popular [11/09/16 21:59] Mallos:But I think we lack lands... As much scenes as we have, the exploration aspect comes to a huge halt quicker than can keep peoples interest. Movements such as Necrovion closing actually help this aspec [11/09/16 22:01] Mallos:And secondly, we lack alliances. We have fewer now than in previous years and alliances are a big part in the majority of player's .. lives lets say [11/09/16 22:02] Zleiphneir:without players, lots of alliances are irrelivant [11/09/16 22:02] Zleiphneir:there are enough to choose from, and enough to try for if people could be bothered (back to laziness) [11/09/16 22:02] Mallos:Many players want to be aligned with something to keep their interest up, if they cant join a movement for this need, a land or alliance is a great option [11/09/16 22:03] Zleiphneir:I remember you talking about lands before, maybe focus on helpin build the ship if you feel that way [11/09/16 22:03] Mallos:But currently alliances can tend to be a social club that harshly ecludes certain players [11/09/16 22:03] Mallos: (well my day of necessity will cause me to do this) [11/09/16 22:03] Mallos: (but I feel as even one extra land though a step in the right direction is not enough) [11/09/16 22:04] Mallos: (we have a virtual world here, it should be as such, such potential, lets not leave it a virtual province or state, but a virtual WORLD) [11/09/16 22:05] Zleiphneir:this is something you can work on in the day of necessity, there are ways and means. [11/09/16 22:06] Mallos:*excludes. And to the lands that have one or few alliances, many players (as we may gain) will not be able to access all these alliances. While joining citizenship is a great step I feel this is [11/09/16 22:06] Mallos:Potentially frustrating or lackluster to a player, to be left out of the potential that is alliances for a land they like [11/09/16 22:07] Mallos:Also we have seen time and time again that alliances are being taken over and destroyed [11/09/16 22:07] Zleiphneir:this comes somewhat down to...the laziness also... [11/09/16 22:07] Mallos:If there was more this would be less an issue, personally I'd like to see it stop but... perhaps thats unwise [11/09/16 22:08] Zleiphneir:but, I take your point. [11/09/16 22:08] Zleiphneir:If someone wanted and alliance, and they worked for it, they would get it. [11/09/16 22:08] Zleiphneir:I dont see anyone doing that. [11/09/16 22:08] Mallos:Yes.. [11/09/16 22:08] Mallos:Well I can tell you to look at blackshade [11/09/16 22:08] Mallos:If not him, I'd not care for the fusioneers [11/09/16 22:09] Mallos:I loved that alliance too. [11/09/16 22:09] Zleiphneir:Blackshade spreads himself too thin. [11/09/16 22:09] Mallos:Possibly. But such is a players choice and personality [11/09/16 22:09] Zleiphneir:If Blackshade could curb himself a bit, take feedback on board instead of losing his temper, and focus on what he really wants... [11/09/16 22:09] Zleiphneir:he'd do amazing things. [11/09/16 22:10] Mallos:Such are players like Valoryn who "unofficially guarding the Wasps totem for over 2 years" may not ever gain a role if they are not open about it (I didn't know) but that can be a playstyle [11/09/16 22:11] Mallos:Well blackshade is newer (if i'm not mistaken, he has alts) and aligns with Fang Archbane, so me and him are helping Blackshade for now to be better [11/09/16 22:11] Zleiphneir:Valoryn was not loud about his actions. People can;t do things for you if you arent loud enough for them to hear you, people need to remember that. [11/09/16 22:11] Mallos:I do not like him having Golemians killed for his own personal gain and/or vengeance [11/09/16 22:12] Mallos:Yes.. there is a case to be made there for "needs to be things to make players who dont like to interact, interact" [11/09/16 22:13] Zleiphneir:there is, agreed [11/09/16 22:13] Mallos:But at current just about any sort of community project you can hope to start, you can also hope (overwhelmingly) to fail. [11/09/16 22:13] Zleiphneir:we won't. [11/09/16 22:14] Mallos:I'd not let us. [11/09/16 22:14] Mallos:But we are speaking of the general population [11/09/16 22:14] Zleiphneir:They will wake up. Just need a boot. [11/09/16 22:14] Zleiphneir:Hey Phan [11/09/16 22:15] :Mallos greets phantasm [11/09/16 22:15] phantasm: *yawns and stretches* morning [11/09/16 22:16] Mallos:Community garden is a great example of a success. [11/09/16 22:16] phantasm:two of my favorite people to greet me awake after along nap, and I see tree is back healthy [11/09/16 22:16] Mallos:Even if small and unintuitive [11/09/16 22:17] Zleiphneir:He is. Resin down to 13, he's ok. Don't worry, they did check and they are being respectful and decent. [11/09/16 22:17] Zleiphneir:community garden.... *sighs* [11/09/16 22:17] Mallos:So I don't need to kill Aeoshattr again aye? [11/09/16 22:17] Zleiphneir:That's a good example of people not supporting someone. [11/09/16 22:18] Mallos: (not planning on it my next use is for quest only) [11/09/16 22:18] Zleiphneir:but yes, Rumi was persistent and did a great job of not giving up [11/09/16 22:18] Mallos:Rumi got me involved somehow, I'm not even a gardener [11/09/16 22:18] :Zleiphneir raises an eyebrow and nudges Mallos [11/09/16 22:18] Zleiphneir:haha, Rumi was an interesting one [11/09/16 22:18] Zleiphneir:there is something you need to recognise though [11/09/16 22:19] Zleiphneir:Rumi is agood example [11/09/16 22:19] Zleiphneir:once he achieved what he wanted...he left. [11/09/16 22:19] Zleiphneir:and the project was never finished as a result. [11/09/16 22:19] Mallos:Yeah.. [11/09/16 22:19] Zleiphneir:so be careful how you handle people's wants....sometimes, they dont realise what they really need... [11/09/16 22:19] :Zleiphneir again, unpopular talking [11/09/16 22:20] Mallos:Well I take a bit of Mur's philosophy to heart here (I take a lot of it) [11/09/16 22:20] Mallos:That you don't often get what you want, this in general makes you go out of your way, which does great things [11/09/16 22:20] Zleiphneir:can do can do. [11/09/16 22:20] :Zleiphneir prods Phan [11/09/16 22:20] Zleiphneir:wake up old man. [11/09/16 22:20] Zleiphneir:no falling asleepagain. [11/09/16 22:21] Mallos: *looks at phantasm* Definitely could have used his carpentry skills... [11/09/16 22:22] Zleiphneir: *mutters* he's gone mute again. [11/09/16 22:23] Mallos:Though we got the shed done still... *looks back at the horse* [11/09/16 22:23] phantasm:what huh? [11/09/16 22:23] phantasm: (sorry just unpacking, just got in from out of state) [11/09/16 22:24] Zleiphneir:yes...the shed, true [11/09/16 22:24] Mallos:Was that a good enough list of what I think we are lacking? If I thought hard enough I can probably think of one more [11/09/16 22:25] Zleiphneir:what is the third one? [11/09/16 22:26] Mallos:Something of what you said, but more along the lines of a general incentive. [11/09/16 22:26] Mallos:Something like... less of "spoilers" attitude, more of "lets get out there and help, research, talk" [11/09/16 22:26] Mallos:People are so prone to "give me something or you wont get anything back" [11/09/16 22:27] Mallos:This is a personal greivence, it's part of why I don't tend to favor Azull interesting an individual he is [11/09/16 22:27] Zleiphneir:very true [11/09/16 22:27] Mallos:Or many others [11/09/16 22:27] Zleiphneir:but in the same vein.. [11/09/16 22:27] Zleiphneir:if you pay nothing for something, you tend to think it worthless in a sense [11/09/16 22:28] Mallos:No [11/09/16 22:28] Zleiphneir:so some small payment, is usually valid, depending what its for [11/09/16 22:28] Mallos:If you had the drive to search for something, that in itself gives that worthless thing value [11/09/16 22:28] Mallos:So while players expecting everything on a platter should rightly be told to go elsewhere [11/09/16 22:29] Mallos:Players who are investing much time into research and development of their concepts, should be more prone to reward [11/09/16 22:29] Zleiphneir:mm, thats a reasonable way to put it I conceed that [11/09/16 22:29] Mallos:This is what I think we lack. As generally people who do spend time, can be told very often "give me something first" [11/09/16 22:30] Mallos:and many players.. unnamed, can often not want anything you can give them [11/09/16 22:30] Zleiphneir:well, let me just flip the coin over for a second here [11/09/16 22:31] :Mallos nods [11/09/16 22:31] Zleiphneir:if you were really a researcher, and you looked hard enough, you'd end up finding me. I dont ask for anything other than you words and your time and dedication. [11/09/16 22:31] Zleiphneir:Yet....even that is too hard for some [11/09/16 22:31] Zleiphneir:and...some prefer to go to the one who wil hand it to them for a fee [11/09/16 22:32] :phantasm holds his hand out [11/09/16 22:32] Zleiphneir: *slaps the hand* stop that. [11/09/16 22:32] Mallos:So to say...? [11/09/16 22:32] :phantasm chuckles [11/09/16 22:33] Zleiphneir:the point is, it isnt so much that the people demanding money is the problem...as it is that people want the easy pay my way system [11/09/16 22:34] Zleiphneir:a service is offered because the demand for it is there. The option not to use that service is here, but is rarely used. [11/09/16 22:35] Mallos:True. I guess it can seem the pay my way option is often first found [11/09/16 22:35] Mallos:And I think generally that system lacks a lot of initiative, as you'll pay and get your reward, and nothing else happens [11/09/16 22:36] Zleiphneir:true - but are they really a researcher if they find one option and never lok anywhere else? [11/09/16 22:36] Zleiphneir:look* [11/09/16 22:36] Mallos:What it should be is pay or be payed, and both parties participate in further learning, my opinion of course [11/09/16 22:36] Mallos:No [11/09/16 22:37] Mallos:Very good point though.. I'll have to mull over implications of such.. And I'm unsure really if this "system" can be fixed [11/09/16 22:37] :Zleiphneir nods [11/09/16 22:38] Mallos:I'd ask you, what do you think MD has -too much- of [11/09/16 22:38] phantasm:back stabbing whiny girls? [11/09/16 22:39] Zleiphneir:<< [11/09/16 22:39] Zleiphneir:>> [11/09/16 22:39] phantasm:not enough tree hugging *hugs Tree* [11/09/16 22:39] :Mallos laughs [11/09/16 22:39] Mallos:I agree there is a lot of backstabbing. That can be fun or so I'd think based on the reality of it.. [11/09/16 22:40] Zleiphneir:Entitled reliance and 'comfort' [11/09/16 22:40] phantasm: *cuddles with Tree* mmm comfort [11/09/16 22:40] :Zleiphneir chuckles [11/09/16 22:41] Zleiphneir:dag nab it Phan! *throws some grass at him* [11/09/16 22:41] Mallos:What do you mean by that. [11/09/16 22:41] :phantasm kisses Tree and then goes in to hug Z [11/09/16 22:41] Zleiphneir:People sit around, thinking everything wil be done for them and whinge if it isn't, forgetting that we the people make the world. [11/09/16 22:42] Zleiphneir: *holds his hand out to stop phan* and people sit in their little comfort zones and dont want to move out of them in case people judge them [11/09/16 22:42] Mallos:mmm.... maybe i'll grant people want everything done for em, hardly do I see whining though [11/09/16 22:42] Mallos:Else we'd see a lot more things to do based on that whining [11/09/16 22:43] Zleiphneir:"nothings hapening", "im bored", "why doesnt chew do this and that" [11/09/16 22:43] Zleiphneir:whinging. [11/09/16 22:43] Mallos:I mean "nothings happening with my alliance we are trying to revive" I see less of that whining than "nothings happening at all" [11/09/16 22:43] Mallos:Which is a useless whining in most rights [11/09/16 22:44] Zleiphneir:mm [11/09/16 22:45] Zleiphneir:what do you think mr huggles? [11/09/16 22:45] :Mallos avoids hugs [11/09/16 22:46] phantasm:i think patience something most of MD has issues with [11/09/16 22:46] phantasm:This world revolves sometimes a hundred times in a day, and at times once in a year [11/09/16 22:47] phantasm:We can create the world and destroy it, but its always faster to destroy then create [11/09/16 22:48] phantasm:I myself have a rather long list of things I would like to see [11/09/16 22:48] phantasm:But some things may take long, and others as simple as in a night [11/09/16 22:49] phantasm: *hops on the wall shrugs* but then again a man who can out wait death, can do most anything [11/09/16 22:49] :Mallos for next mp7 2k16 [11/09/16 22:49] :Mallos coughs [11/09/16 22:50] Mallos:A long list is useless to the public as many wishes may be personal [11/09/16 22:50] Mallos:Must pick and choose what is important [11/09/16 22:50] phantasm:But who says what is important? [11/09/16 22:50] Mallos:Mur/chew/Z? [11/09/16 22:50] phantasm:what is important to you and me, may not be so to someone else [11/09/16 22:50] Mallos:High activity and input from public? [11/09/16 22:51] Mallos:Well thought out and carried out plans? [11/09/16 22:51] phantasm:You and I think the ressurection quest is more important then anything, but others may not think so [11/09/16 22:51] phantasm:Some thing ever increasing death may be something they wish to see isntead of ressurection [11/09/16 22:51] Mallos:Yes. But is it our place to make the public think so? [11/09/16 22:52] phantasm:Some think Tree should be cut down and the world should end, othes would lay down their lives for it [11/09/16 22:53] phantasm:I care greatly for the task that was given to us, but at times my black heart creeps in and would like to see a world of graves to tend to [11/09/16 22:53] phantasm:So at times it is we ourselves who create the most turmoil on what we htink is important [11/09/16 22:54] phantasm:Z here may think nothing more important then a nap under Tree, while some may think he is wasting time [11/09/16 22:54] :Zleiphneir chuckles [11/09/16 22:54] phantasm:Opinion is the death of action many times [11/09/16 22:55] phantasm:But at times it creates a better outcome through its delay [11/09/16 22:55] Mallos:Zleiphneir? Should call him sleipnir *winks* [11/09/16 22:55] phantasm:I find it more important that people stand for and do not waiver from their ideals [11/09/16 22:56] :Zleiphneir smirks [11/09/16 22:56] phantasm:I think sometimes here, you can actually not act upon anyhting, but stand for what you believe in so strong that others stand as well [11/09/16 22:57] phantasm:Until so many stand there there is no room to sit [11/09/16 22:57] phantasm:Z never asked me to protect Tree, he just stood here, for *looks at his imaginary watch* decades it seems [11/09/16 22:58] phantasm:and I stood up, as did many others, and here Tree stands [11/09/16 22:58] phantasm:against famine and flood [11/09/16 22:58] phantasm:fire and war [11/09/16 22:58] phantasm:when many would see it destroyed, it stands taller then ever [11/09/16 22:58] Mallos:Come to think of it, I think the old barricade idea came to life recently did it [11/09/16 22:59] Mallos:Just more towards LR than here at Steve *coughs* I mean Bob [11/09/16 23:00] phantasm:In a place where time is almost not a factor, the only factor that remains is ones ability to hold onto their ideals forever [11/09/16 23:00] phantasm: *pulls out his bottle of Dark Rum* just like me and rum [11/09/16 23:00] :phantasm takes a swig and passes it on [11/09/16 23:01] Zleiphneir:rum is important. [11/09/16 23:01] :phantasm passed Bottle of Dark Rum to Zleiphneir [11/09/16 23:01] Mallos:Fancy whiskey myself [11/09/16 23:02] Zleiphneir:ooo [11/09/16 23:02] Mallos:But what you say is true. The real test is of patience, and many can be ran over or overlooked [11/09/16 23:02] Mallos:I ask how much of this do we want. [11/09/16 23:03] phantasm: man are ran over, and its why you satnd back up [11/09/16 23:03] phantasm: seimemots the ssgrteont aepapr the waekset [11/09/16 23:03] phantasm: wehw [11/09/16 23:04] phantasm: try rediang that one [11/09/16 23:04] Mallos:sometimes the strongest appear the weakest... pfft give me a challenge [11/09/16 23:04] Mallos:no rumplestiltskin please [11/09/16 23:05] : Mallos throws 2 dice and gets 4, 12 [11/09/16 23:05] Zleiphneir: Hey LIn [11/09/16 23:05] :Mallos greets Lintara [11/09/16 23:05] phantasm: mnniorg Lianrta [11/09/16 23:06] Lintara:Hi Z, hey Phantasm, hey Mallos! *covers a yawn, then blinks and shakes her head, chuckles* Sorry, late time. *smiles* What's up? [11/09/16 23:06] Mallos:I was ever prodding the horse here to find out what it believes [11/09/16 23:06] Zleiphneir: wre'e duinsscisg waht MD is lcanikg, or has too mcuh of [11/09/16 23:06] Zleiphneir: and idaes for imnevreompt [11/09/16 23:07] Zleiphneir: dvie in ...hic ... aa give your ...hic ... thtoguhs [11/09/16 23:07] Mallos:^ [11/09/16 23:07] Lintara:Hmm... Have any of you gents listened to the echoes at the Gazebo of Equilibrium or the Roundabout today? [11/09/16 23:08] Zleiphneir: nooooooooooooooo [11/09/16 23:08] Mallos: *nods* not the roundabout [11/09/16 23:08] Lintara: *smiles a little* The newling summed it up quite well [11/09/16 23:09] Zleiphneir: do etarbaloe [11/09/16 23:09] Zleiphneir: .a..s i...nhwat was said? [11/09/16 23:10] Zleiphneir: Phan i'ts your falut II cn'at talk! [11/09/16 23:10] Mallos:"You found a vitality elixir. Your maximum vitality has increased by 109." [11/09/16 23:10] phantasm: wahaa? lol [11/09/16 23:10] :Mallos shifts around and remembers his profile reset recently [11/09/16 23:11] phantasm: hey aetfr dinnkirg form yuor falsk that rum is plain water [11/09/16 23:11] Zleiphneir: hahaahha. yes. [11/09/16 23:11] Zleiphneir: obuyslvio. [11/09/16 23:12] Lintara:Let's see... The mp3's are too few in number or too strong to train on and the mp3 as a level can't hold itself up *mutters that the same can be said about mp4* ahem, andthe veterans are mostly silent [11/09/16 23:12] phantasm: tahts bcsauee we are peassd out dnurk [11/09/16 23:13] Lintara: *chuckles* Would a guest stay around long if they'd come for a visit but found the lord of the house passed out drunk? [11/09/16 23:13] Mallos:Arguably mp4 is worse, been called purgatory [11/09/16 23:13] phantasm: dpneeds on if they wnat to get dunrk too [11/09/16 23:13] Zleiphneir: so Malols [11/09/16 23:14] Zleiphneir: if this is the case [11/09/16 23:14] phantasm: but ii argee lin [11/09/16 23:14] Zleiphneir: then myabe nwiebe ...hic ... day aslo needs eynvoree to log in thier atls [11/09/16 23:14] phantasm: sbeor ...hic ... plopee dont lkie dnukrs [11/09/16 23:14] Mallos:That's been stated by you already, I do have alts to do so, will encourage the same from other [11/09/16 23:14] phantasm: tehn it tnurs itno alt day? [11/09/16 23:15] Zleiphneir: ylo'ul need to secipfy the MP level [11/09/16 23:15] *Grido*:Greetings all [11/09/16 23:15] Zleiphneir: and wrhee [11/09/16 23:15] phantasm: shh grido is here act sebor [11/09/16 23:15] Mallos:Hello [11/09/16 23:15] Lintara:Hi Grido! [11/09/16 23:15] Zleiphneir: Hey Gdiredrs [11/09/16 23:15] :Mallos is good at that [11/09/16 23:15] :*Grido* chuckles [11/09/16 23:15] phantasm: why hlleo giord, aa fnie day [11/09/16 23:15] Zleiphneir: bit drnuk, blame pahn ...hic ... [11/09/16 23:15] :Lintara giggles [11/09/16 23:16] phantasm: why is iewhtn poelpe ...hic ... are dunrk its awyals my falut [11/09/16 23:16] :phantasm passed Bottle of Dark Rum to Lintara [11/09/16 23:16] Zleiphneir: bueacse it is yuor fltau! [11/09/16 23:16] *Grido*:Because you bring the booze? [11/09/16 23:16] phantasm:oh yah, right [11/09/16 23:16] :phantasm hands out more booze [11/09/16 23:16] Lintara:Oh, so that's where the rum was! [11/09/16 23:16] Zleiphneir: so yae, Msolal, name wcihh MP ...hic ... lleev, and werhe all the atls solhud be [11/09/16 23:16] Zleiphneir: ...if you unetansdrd aa wrod Im si.ayng. ...hic ... [11/09/16 23:17] Mallos:Phantasm, you own a pub remember? [11/09/16 23:17] phantasm: id help with an alt day if it wulod help new peaylrs tarin [11/09/16 23:17] Mallos:I do [11/09/16 23:17] Zleiphneir: Gdior, I'd really lkie yuor inupt on the nwebie day [11/09/16 23:17] Zleiphneir: .b.u..t ...hic ... II ...hic ... cnat altulcay tlak pory..lrep. [11/09/16 23:17] phantasm: but tairn is ...hic ... olny hlaf the betalt, the ...hic ... ohetr hlaf is rlaem mood [11/09/16 23:18] *Grido*:I only just arrived, what's the idea for newbie day? [11/09/16 23:18] Zleiphneir: Molals can you expalin as yo;ure the host pseeal? [11/09/16 23:19] Mallos:I'm to host newbie day, I'll do it once or twice a month likely. We are to meet at the paper cabin (as ill announce) and have a party/go around helping newbies and showing them the realm, making it [11/09/16 23:20] Mallos:look more attractive and log into mp3/4 alts to help them train on as there is so few recently. This requires help from the community as I can't do it alone [11/09/16 23:20] :Mallos hopes this is good [11/09/16 23:20] Zleiphneir:decent basic explaination *nods* [11/09/16 23:21] Zleiphneir:hmm can I talk... [11/09/16 23:21] Zleiphneir:yes I can! [11/09/16 23:21] Zleiphneir:wonderful. [11/09/16 23:21] *Grido*:I like the premise - the only thing being with the low volumes of new players, there might not be any around to make merriment with [11/09/16 23:21] Zleiphneir:Thing is, if you sit in the paper cabin, and we vote, they come. [11/09/16 23:22] Zleiphneir:I did it on my own for a week. I got two new players. [11/09/16 23:22] phantasm: if you cratee tmeh, they wlil cem.o... [11/09/16 23:22] Zleiphneir:You know what? I dont care if they're alts, so long as theyre active. [11/09/16 23:23] phantasm: agreed, myabe we need hppay dnurk alts [11/09/16 23:23] phantasm: aa few sogns, some ...hic ... diacngn, myabe aa sppreitr ploe in the PC [11/09/16 23:23] *Grido*:If it works, then I encourage it [11/09/16 23:24] Zleiphneir:Can you talk about the LHO situation a bit? It seems a little...lack lustre right now and we want to help. [11/09/16 23:24] Mallos:Yes i often see a new player a day, but few stay [11/09/16 23:24] *Grido*:If there are alts, then let them be the rare subtle kind so that none of us realise [11/09/16 23:25] Mallos:Ohhhh [11/09/16 23:25] Mallos:Thats another thing I think MD has too much of. The alt hating [11/09/16 23:25] Mallos:Will to name and shame alts, who cares if they are played well. I've seen players make this a game (me included) "who's that player an alt of?" [11/09/16 23:26] phantasm: My alt is alcatluy older tehn me [11/09/16 23:26] phantasm: wati.hat.t mkeas me an a?ytl!! [11/09/16 23:26] *Grido*:Aye, I have been remiss somewhat in supervising the LHO [11/09/16 23:27] phantasm: the horror! [11/09/16 23:27] Mallos:Alts are the account you dont play, I consider falronn my alt, hes older than me (not in active days though) [11/09/16 23:27] phantasm: it hepanps to us all gidor, smees elelcipsay as of late [11/09/16 23:28] *Grido*:I will be looking into it over the next week or so, reviewing who's still active and such - if anyone has input on this, please send me a message [11/09/16 23:28] *Grido*:Contacting those that are to try to formalise the Cabin cover again [11/09/16 23:29] Zleiphneir:Theyre still very dedicated to helping newbies....just, they seem to lack leadership and none want to take it upon themselves - probably out of respect for you. [11/09/16 23:29] Zleiphneir:Cabin cover would be a great start, thats really good to hear [11/09/16 23:30] Zleiphneir:On the Newbie day, Mallos is basically going to try to amplify the basic LHO function [11/09/16 23:30] Zleiphneir:turn it up to 11 and all that. [11/09/16 23:31] *Grido*:The rule of roles within MD - act as though you have the role before you are given it. Respect for me only goes so far if I am absent in mind [11/09/16 23:32] Zleiphneir:we'll be trying to be more active, rather than passive. Im hoping you're on board with that, with your team. [11/09/16 23:33] *Grido*:Naturally *nods* [11/09/16 23:33] :Lintara smiles and waves to Sunfire [11/09/16 23:33] Zleiphneir:awesome. That'll make it all the better, and I know Mallos is totally motivated, so lets give it a push. [11/09/16 23:33] *Sunfire*:appoint a new second in command since both you and burns are quite inactive [11/09/16 23:34] Mallos:Who here has a log spell, I would appreciate a log after we are all done talking [11/09/16 23:34] :Mallos notes a lack of asterisks around his name [11/09/16 23:35] Zleiphneir: (I can pull the log for you.) [11/09/16 23:35] Mallos: (oh good) [11/09/16 23:36] Mallos:So... would anyone else like to provide input on my questions, which are as follows: What do you think MD lacks? What do you think MD has too much of? [11/09/16 23:37] :Dark Demon nods to everybody present [11/09/16 23:37] Zleiphneir:Hey DD, good to see you out and about [11/09/16 23:38] :Mallos greets Dark Demon [11/09/16 23:38] Dark Demon:Is this in response to the cadaverous dude ragequitting? [11/09/16 23:38] Lintara:Well, I need to go now. Goodnight all! [11/09/16 23:38] Zleiphneir:Night Lin [11/09/16 23:38] *Sunfire*:md lacks...energy, perhaps motivation [11/09/16 23:38] Dark Demon:Hey Z, how are you doing? Been a while! You too Mallos. [11/09/16 23:38] Mallos:No this is in response to.. mm me interviewing Zleiphneir [11/09/16 23:38] phantasm:night lin [11/09/16 23:39] Dark Demon:What I think: MD needs a board of directors/coders/admins to start building a proper game before it hopes to retain players or grow. [11/09/16 23:39] Zleiphneir:Not bad, not bad, how are you doing? [11/09/16 23:39] Dark Demon:Basically a financial investment. [11/09/16 23:39] Mallos:Sunfire why do you think that and what can be done perhaps? [11/09/16 23:40] Dark Demon:Tiny things we do within MD won't produce permanent changes [11/09/16 23:40] Dark Demon:I'm mostly sleepy, just woke up because this was something I wanted to put in^^ [11/09/16 23:40] Mallos:Dark Demon, this was expressed by Chewett in his what needs work topic, they want to fix the game before spending on adds [11/09/16 23:40] Zleiphneir:I think, things we do as a group, will produce changes [11/09/16 23:41] Dark Demon:I'm not talking about advertisments [11/09/16 23:41] *Sunfire*:but we dont do things anymore [11/09/16 23:41] *Sunfire*:nodody can be bothered [11/09/16 23:41] Dark Demon:^ [11/09/16 23:41] *Sunfire*:we just argue and kill eachother [11/09/16 23:41] Mallos:Then mind evaluating why you think we need a board of directors? [11/09/16 23:41] Zleiphneir:so lets be bothered. [11/09/16 23:42] Mallos:And one at a time please if people want to answer [11/09/16 23:42] Dark Demon:Because that's how any 'game' works. Yes, I know MD is a community and player driven game but if we want to be honest, we all know there's more to it than that. [11/09/16 23:43] Zleiphneir: (im just going to do a quick scan of MB in case people want to come down brb) [11/09/16 23:43] Dark Demon: (wait) [11/09/16 23:43] Dark Demon: (i just came from there) [11/09/16 23:44] Dark Demon:I think MD is missing a lot of fundamental aspects. Players can enhance those aspects and work on things to make them better, if only those 'things' existed in the first place. [11/09/16 23:44] Dark Demon:Energy, motivation, activity... these aren't 'things'. You don't 'make' them. They come as a result of work. [11/09/16 23:45] Dark Demon:And money [11/09/16 23:45] Mallos:I see your point.. It's kind of like what I was expressing, there's little motivation and little work people will put in if you give out [11/09/16 23:45] Dark Demon:I wonder if many of you experience the same way, but often times my 'survival' in MD depended on ONE player at a time, at times. [11/09/16 23:46] Dark Demon:I think that's way too narrow of a margin if we want to retain players. [11/09/16 23:47] Dark Demon:The cold honest harsh truth I believe is that unless Mur doesnt come back with 3-4 Chewett-like coders, MD will die [11/09/16 23:47] Mallos:Yes. And sometimes that one player can't give you everything you need. We need a community, but it's impossible for such to help everyone [11/09/16 23:50] Mallos:So to say we lack coders [11/09/16 23:50] Mallos:And effort from the populace at times [11/09/16 23:50] Mallos:Which is another of my goals with the day of necessity. [11/09/16 23:51] Mallos:Does anyone have further opinions on what MD lacks... Or perhaps what we have too much of [11/09/16 23:53] :Coders efforts are directly affected by, in my opinion, two factors. Their time, and the response to their time. [11/09/16 23:54] Dark Demon:Players stop getting motivation and stop putting effort when they dont see long term rewards [11/09/16 23:54] :If you have little time,then the other factor becomes greater. You will make time if you get good responses [11/09/16 23:54] :This actually works for everyone in actuality. [11/09/16 23:55] Mallos:Yes, work vs reward (reward being acceptance and appreciation of your ideas/work) [11/09/16 23:55] Dark Demon:I'm not talking about gold and creatures. Believe it or not, I think most of us want to be rewarded by people (in MD, at least, not other games) . By their friendship/praise/encouragement whatever [11/09/16 23:55] Dark Demon:By their activity [11/09/16 23:55] lashtal:Greetings to you all. [11/09/16 23:56] Dark Demon:A questmaker will make quests if he gets his input's worth of participants [11/09/16 23:56] Zleiphneir:Hey Lash [11/09/16 23:56] Dark Demon:Hello lash. [11/09/16 23:56] Dark Demon: (precisely Mallos) [11/09/16 23:57] *Sunfire*:yes, but now we only have 2 coders and we all agree tutorial is kinda priority but we still want something going on as well right now, but that is hard to mix for you coders certainly since [11/09/16 23:57] :one [11/09/16 23:57] *Sunfire*:its only a hobby to do that work here [11/09/16 23:57] :Mur isnt coding atm, hasnt been for months [11/09/16 23:57] Dark Demon:We have one absent coder and one unpaid coder. That is a huge problem. [11/09/16 23:58] :and since people like shitting on me its kinda useless right? [11/09/16 23:58] Dark Demon:Is that Azull? [11/09/16 23:58] Dark Demon:Hi Azull [11/09/16 23:58] Mallos:It's a chew [11/09/16 23:58] Zleiphneir:yea its basically Just Chew, don't under-estimate his constant unending task [11/09/16 23:58] Dark Demon:OH [11/09/16 23:58] :azull is much politer [11/09/16 23:58] Azull:Don't mind me [11/09/16 23:59] Zleiphneir:Can I just say, Im really glad you guys all showed up for this, it;s really positive. [11/09/16 23:59] Mallos:If I got personal with this one, I "shat" on dst for her lack of volition after she "shat" on me for my lack of.. public effort for good in wanting to be mp6 [11/09/16 23:59] :afk [12/09/16 00:00] Mallos:And I know this upset chew as he accosted me on it soon after. I didn't and won't apologize as I stand behind my posting of such, everyone has problems [12/09/16 00:00] Mallos:It's not hard to find them. [12/09/16 00:00] Zleiphneir:lets try not to get into what has happened in the past and try to be objective about what we can do and what we think needs help ay [12/09/16 00:00] Mallos:But here we can try to look past or fix them, not hurt eachother for no reason. [12/09/16 00:01] *Grido*:Can we mind the language please Mallos? [12/09/16 00:01] Mallos:Sure [12/09/16 00:01] Dark Demon:Z, can you make Bob grow $50 bills or something [12/09/16 00:01] Mallos:Still a reason why I call myself mallos.. [12/09/16 00:01] Aethon:Interesting time to hold a discussion. Though seems a considerable amount are awake. [12/09/16 00:01] Zleiphneir:haha I can try I dont think he wil though [12/09/16 00:01] :Aethon does the Dstling summoning jig [12/09/16 00:02] *Sunfire*:Z our community is small and we know eachother for years, people have stepped on other's toes but people inhere cannot forget but only see revenge for everything [12/09/16 00:02] Zleiphneir:perhaps - but I truely believe we are able to come together. [12/09/16 00:02] *Sunfire*:its a real pitty [12/09/16 00:02] Dark Demon:^Sunny's right. I forever hate dst and will never rest till there is justice. And I hold no shame in that. [12/09/16 00:02] Aethon:What have I missed? [12/09/16 00:03] *Sunfire*:lets hope so, look at how many are left of us [12/09/16 00:03] Zleiphneir:we can have fire, we can have war, but when it comes to the crux of it, I think we're all capable of working together - even if that means using someone who stands between and translates. [12/09/16 00:03] Zleiphneir:Mallos can you summarise so far? [12/09/16 00:03] :[Spell] Earth's whisper. [12/09/16 00:04] Mallos:Of what.. My questions or the topics raised.. [12/09/16 00:04] Zleiphneir:the things people have raised in response to the questions [12/09/16 00:04] Aethon:No need for me now, unless you still want to. [12/09/16 00:05] Mallos:In general it seems we all agree upon the point that there is a lack of initiative within the realm and perhaps a solid way to build upon that initiative [12/09/16 00:05] Dark Demon:Basically there is a lack of admin/coder team. We have one hardworking unpaid coder, but that is all. Also, there is a lack of 'people-reward' when effort is made. [12/09/16 00:05] Zleiphneir:I think lack of appreciation has come up now as an important one [12/09/16 00:06] Aethon:Heh, I think "people-award" is given in very odd ways. And often incorrectly when it is. [12/09/16 00:07] Zleiphneir:Open forum Aethon, speak your truth [12/09/16 00:08] lashtal:I missed a good hour of discussion, but I think "initiative" doesn't necessarily means "coding"... We have more tools now than years ago... My 2%. [12/09/16 00:09] Aethon:"People-rewards" are given through three methods; Real work and commitment, "Sucking up" or personal favouritism. [12/09/16 00:09] Mallos:I don't say it as coding, it's been somewhat agreed that the people don't do anythng unless it's laid out in front of them [12/09/16 00:10] Mallos:This is not a good thing, as for things to happen people need to work [12/09/16 00:10] Aethon:Considering it's the latter two that are mostly rewarded - along with a general "let's find a flaw in everything" attitude from the community- less people are willing to make an effort. [12/09/16 00:11] Zleiphneir:Id agree with you Lashtal, so the question is why isnt it happening [12/09/16 00:12] Zleiphneir:Aethon - sucking up and personal favoritism are also subjective, what is it that makes you think those have a higher weighting that work and commitment/ [12/09/16 00:12] Aethon:In life there are the leaders and the followers, always will be. It isn't a fact of no initiatives, it's just personality. We currently have fewer leaders, to lay the first foundation, than we do... [12/09/16 00:12] Dark Demon:Please don't forget combat, guys. Only coders can touch combat. All are fighters (almost) are gone. And combat is what most newbies will go for when they arrive. [12/09/16 00:12] Aethon:...followers. [12/09/16 00:13] Dark Demon:our fighters* [12/09/16 00:13] lashtal:I'd say laziness is one part, another being the scarcity of new players (whom you can compare to customers) [12/09/16 00:13] Mallos:Combat is still pretty much my favorite part of MD (asides other people and researching) and I don't even grind [12/09/16 00:14] Zleiphneir:I didnt go for combat when I arrived, but I may be a minority. [12/09/16 00:14] Dark Demon:MP3 comes in. Gets bored. Nobody to fight with. Quits after a few days. [12/09/16 00:14] Dark Demon:How often have we heard this? Its almost annoying even [12/09/16 00:14] Dark Demon:But apart from a small effort made a few months ago (hoarding alts on GoE) , the issue is untouched because 'the game must be improved before we can retain players' [12/09/16 00:15] Zleiphneir:I happen to agree with you Lashtal. [12/09/16 00:15] lashtal:I don't think MD is a grinding game. I don't say grinders don't have a place, or shouldn't enjoy grinding... but I'd rather show MP3s there's more than fighting.. [12/09/16 00:15] Aethon:Z - Those that ask and ask and ask, or continually pester Mur/Chew (and follow like sheep) , get what they want - Fang, DD, Aeo being, in my opinion, prime examples. [12/09/16 00:16] Zleiphneir:let me just put another spin on that, if you'll allow me [12/09/16 00:16] Zleiphneir:and try to not bite my head off [12/09/16 00:17] Zleiphneir:the other version of that, is saying that if you stay silent, you arent rewarded, but if youre loud, you are....and there's something underneath that I think is worth paying attention to [12/09/16 00:17] Aethon:Work, such as playing the more "godly" characters - like Lash, DR, yourself, etc did - and doing something, with more than hope for a personal gain, is what should be rewarded [12/09/16 00:17] Mallos:Guys, a fix to the problems we are stating here just tends to be, More players. That equals more leaders that equals more mp3s to fight [12/09/16 00:17] Dark Demon:I'm gonna disagree with Aethon. I speak for myself, and somewhat for Aeo too, because I know him well enough, that this 'pestering Mur to get what you want' stuff is BS. [12/09/16 00:18] Zleiphneir:because if you sit quietly in a room, never mentionning what you're doing, nobody is going to see what you're doing, unless you;re very lucky or worked out how to be loud in another way [12/09/16 00:18] Aethon:I would agree being loud is a method of succeeding, but when that's (seemingly) only satisfy your own ego or to sate your own needs...that's not something that should be rewarded. [12/09/16 00:18] Dark Demon:Fang used to follow him like crazy, yeah. But I daresay Mur himself took an initiative as far as Aeo and I are concerned. And that is when development of Labyrinth and nightmode took place [12/09/16 00:19] Zleiphneir:I can see your side of it, but you need to consider the opposite side, I think thats what Im saying. When I say being loud I mean....about anything you're doing, whether its for yourself or for everyo [12/09/16 00:19] Zleiphneir:ne [12/09/16 00:19] Chewett:Mur listened with you two [12/09/16 00:19] Chewett:To me. [12/09/16 00:20] Chewett:Fang was his great project but it failed because too many haters hated. he agreed that for new "test subjects" they need to be shown to be separate from Mur [12/09/16 00:20] Aethon:Oh, I understand the other side. And I congratulate those on managing to get what they do - we all know I'm one for using all tools at your disposal - but I still disagree with the general principle.. [12/09/16 00:20] Chewett:Some argue still he was too close to DD, so Aeo was further away [12/09/16 00:20] Chewett:Perhaps the next subject wont even know Mur? [12/09/16 00:21] Chewett:Its a slow movement from Murs managerial style [12/09/16 00:21] Chewett:At the start he got really close to those he was testing, and that worked sometimes [12/09/16 00:21] Chewett:But many times the persons nature caused issues [12/09/16 00:21] Aethon:Fang was given a reward for...I don't even know? And what has he done with it other than flaunt his ability? DD was given the Laby and, at first, did well with it...now? And Aeo? The most I've ... [12/09/16 00:22] Aethon:...seen of his ability is to personal gain (whilst I've been around anyway) [12/09/16 00:22] Chewett:For those that remember Shoeps, he was held up to be the best, but he was only human [12/09/16 00:22] Chewett:It caused issues [12/09/16 00:22] *Grido*:Issues, indeed [12/09/16 00:23] Dark Demon:If you ask me, I will continue to 'do well' if I see the rest of MD running too. One part of a factory can't function on its own if the other is dead. [12/09/16 00:23] Chewett:From a managerial position I see two major issues, but I can discuss this when we next move on from this point, when Z says I can. [12/09/16 00:23] Aethon:Obviously, I don't disagree that personal use is allowed, but when it's such rewards given to further the community in the long run...seems odd. [12/09/16 00:23] Zleiphneir:I think we've covered the major topics chew so Im just going to summarise and check and then you can talk about that is that's ok? [12/09/16 00:24] Chewett:Marvellous. [12/09/16 00:24] Chewett:I shall make some tea [12/09/16 00:24] Mallos:Let's try to discuss WHAT and HOW people can do to help and avoid "sucking up" rather than what they have done badly [12/09/16 00:24] Zleiphneir:so we know we're (as a group) frustrated with the lack of players, the lack of coding payment, lack of appreciation, and the potential favoritism - is that about right? [12/09/16 00:25] Zleiphneir:and on the improvement stuff we can actively do ourselves - we can work as a group, show more energy, and innovation and log in alts? [12/09/16 00:25] Dark Demon:Sucking up, favoritism, etc all this stuff won't stop. These are human attributes and MD is a community game. [12/09/16 00:25] Zleiphneir:Im not asking if it will stop or can be fixed, just if that's what we thinkis an issue [12/09/16 00:25] Aethon:Also, Z [12/09/16 00:25] Aethon:In relation to the LHO side of things: [12/09/16 00:25] Aethon: [Forum link] [12/09/16 00:26] Aethon:I still point to this. [12/09/16 00:26] Dark Demon:LHO's are dead, really [12/09/16 00:26] Zleiphneir:so on the LHO side - we have a plan for that, and Grido is getting on it. [12/09/16 00:26] Dark Demon:Back then I remember LHO's used to fight as to who will write stuff on the tutorial path scenes [12/09/16 00:27] Zleiphneir:I'll add LHO to the summary [12/09/16 00:27] Zleiphneir:anything else or is that about right? [12/09/16 00:28] Zleiphneir:OK Ill take the silence as consent unless anyone speaks up [12/09/16 00:28] Zleiphneir:and Chew can talk about the management side [12/09/16 00:28] Zleiphneir:...when he's made his tea [12/09/16 00:29] lashtal:A small addition, if I may... [12/09/16 00:29] Mallos:Hahah.. DD i find myself posting messages about every time I visit the cabin, something I haven't seen done regularly in a long time [12/09/16 00:29] Zleiphneir:go for it [12/09/16 00:30] Mallos:Think Eagle Eye was actually the last person I saw still doing it regularly.. [12/09/16 00:31] lashtal:I think another reason for frustration is the amount of "false" new players (alts) . It's very disappointing when you spend time to point someone to a quester or another only to discover he's just... [12/09/16 00:31] lashtal:... another alt in disguise. [12/09/16 00:31] :Aethon coughlimittheamountofaltsallowedcough [12/09/16 00:31] lashtal:An alt checker would save time.. [12/09/16 00:31] :Mallos notes his alt name and shame game [12/09/16 00:32] Zleiphneir:so this came up earlier - but the opposite point [12/09/16 00:32] Zleiphneir:so earlier the issue raised was alt shaming - which reduces alts in game, which reduces attackable players [12/09/16 00:32] Zleiphneir:thoughts? [12/09/16 00:33] Mallos:It can also have a myriad of effects such as less players RPing in general and less group convos such as this forming [12/09/16 00:33] Dark Demon:You shouldn't have to use alts to 'create' MP3s. But back then it was happening, the consequence (new players running away) was even worse. So ppl started alt-ing. [12/09/16 00:34] lashtal:I say alts are good to allow MP3 to train... but let them be recognizable as alts. [12/09/16 00:34] Mallos:If ungod was here he could touch on the idea that you should be able to reverse mindpower, this would definitely help with the mp3s having nobody to attack problem [12/09/16 00:34] Dark Demon:Random suggestion: Scratch the flag system. Instead replace it when a menu which shows all accounts from the same IP address or those detected as alts. [12/09/16 00:35] Chewett:No [12/09/16 00:35] Dark Demon:that was abrupt lol [12/09/16 00:35] Zleiphneir:ok Ive made a note of these points [12/09/16 00:35] Zleiphneir:Chew - management stuff [12/09/16 00:35] Chewett:still making tea [12/09/16 00:35] Chewett::) [12/09/16 00:36] Zleiphneir:dag nab it Chew! [12/09/16 00:36] Zleiphneir: *mutters* ok carry on about alts. [12/09/16 00:36] Dark Demon:Chew has alts ban him [12/09/16 00:36] Zleiphneir: (thats going to be some STRONG tea) [12/09/16 00:36] Dark Demon:Chewertus del Chew [12/09/16 00:36] *Sunfire*:perhaps an alt mark for LHOs, but it doesnt have to say who the main is [12/09/16 00:36] Dark Demon:Chew 1 2 3.....99 [12/09/16 00:37] *Sunfire*:that way we wont waste time and can focus on new players [12/09/16 00:37] Zleiphneir:Alts allow you to play the game from another perspective - do you not think marking alts would ruing that? [12/09/16 00:37] Zleiphneir:ruin* [12/09/16 00:37] *Sunfire*:however, there is a problem of returning players creating an alt since they forgot everything [12/09/16 00:37] *Sunfire*:thats why i limited it to LHOs [12/09/16 00:37] Mallos:Would have been much harder to destroy necro, would be much harder to roleplay in general if people want nothing to do with you [12/09/16 00:37] Dark Demon:Is this 'new perspective' worth it if its causing so many issues? People can barely put effort or produce activity from one account. [12/09/16 00:38] Dark Demon:^i really need a reply to this pls [12/09/16 00:38] *Sunfire*: (and this info should not be used meta RP wise, it would be an admin feature sorta) ) [12/09/16 00:38] Zleiphneir:what are the so many issues? [12/09/16 00:39] Zleiphneir:so far lashtal named one. what are the others. [12/09/16 00:39] Dark Demon:frustration as pointed above, potential abuse, potential errors (wrongly being marked as alts) , etc. [12/09/16 00:39] Ivorak:Dark Demon, I can think of players who were quite active on up to half a dozen accounts at once, perhaps for a year or two [12/09/16 00:39] Dark Demon:I do not deny that, Ivorak. Surely there will be some losses, yes. [12/09/16 00:39] Kiley: *wakes with sleepy eyes and soft fart* I'm gonna suggest just focusing having a little fun:P [12/09/16 00:40] :Zleiphneir chuckles [12/09/16 00:40] *Grido*:Kiley! [12/09/16 00:40] Kiley: *grins* Hello!! [12/09/16 00:41] lashtal:To clarify what I meant: I see only one issue with alts... the time wasted in guiding/mentoring them. I wouldn't want to know whose alt is XXX, but I'd love to know it's an alt. [12/09/16 00:41] Mallos:Happy birthday Kiley [12/09/16 00:41] Zleiphneir:so for me, to date, the items you call potential - are small comparative to the population - and Id dare say, worth the fuss for a new perspective. [12/09/16 00:41] Dark Demon:But do the benefits outweigh the bad? That is the real question. Considering the fact that a person can spend more time developing one account, its not too bad [12/09/16 00:42] Ivorak:Potential abuses and potential wrong alt marks wouldn't go away if you banned alts though [12/09/16 00:42] Zleiphneir:the main issue seems to be the one lashtal is talking about - wasted time helping someone who in reality doesnt need help [12/09/16 00:42] Dark Demon:who's banning alts O.o [12/09/16 00:42] Mallos:lashtal is it a waste, do you not grow from guiding them? I can see where you're coming from but.. disagree [12/09/16 00:43] Mallos:Perhaps that player is someone you'd never have interacted with elsewise [12/09/16 00:43] Dark Demon:again Mallos its the 'lack of appreciation' isn't it [12/09/16 00:43] Kiley: *tugs gently at one of Mallo's feathers whispering* Thank you. [12/09/16 00:43] Zleiphneir:but I go back to a new perspective - if you helped an alt, does that make your help worthless. Are you only helping to gain new players? Did you forgo other people to help this alt? [12/09/16 00:43] Zleiphneir:did you gain nothing from that experience [12/09/16 00:43] :Mallos questions Kiley on his lack of feathers [12/09/16 00:43] Dark Demon:I'm pretty sure people don't help others primarily for their own experience or gain, Z. [12/09/16 00:43] Zleiphneir:questions all, not statements [12/09/16 00:44] Dark Demon:They genuinely want to see the impact of their help, by seeing the new player grow [12/09/16 00:45] Zleiphneir:what if the old player grows and you do too [12/09/16 00:45] Dark Demon:There are way more efficient methods of doing that. Do we really have resources to waste? [12/09/16 00:45] Zleiphneir:so are we saying that new players are being ignored due to alts? [12/09/16 00:46] Dark Demon:Ofc not. What do you mean by that? [12/09/16 00:46] lashtal:No, Z... [12/09/16 00:46] Mallos:I don't think that's the case, it's been suggested most new players nowadays are alts anyways [12/09/16 00:46] Mallos:At least well intergrated new players.. Which is not always the case [12/09/16 00:46] Zleiphneir:you said resources are going to waste - but theyre only being wasted if something was actually wasted. [12/09/16 00:47] Dark Demon:The main issue: lack of 'people-reward' for the helper when he realises his help was gone to waste because the new guy he helped so enthuiastically is an alt [12/09/16 00:47] Dark Demon:what i meant was, resources aren't being as efficiently consumed as they could be, and that is not the way the current state of MD can survive in [12/09/16 00:47] :Aethon rummages around in his pile of stones, mumbling to himself [12/09/16 00:47] Zleiphneir:lashtal? [12/09/16 00:48] Dark Demon:old players + you can grow through far better means... not by pretending to be alts [12/09/16 00:48] lashtal:Perhaps helping an alt is not completely worthless, but knowing it could be an old fart using his n-th alt to fish for whatever information only strengthens the paranoia and doesn't help MD's health. [12/09/16 00:48] Aethon:Ah. *grunts as he finds what he was looking for* [12/09/16 00:48] :Aethon passed Acousticremains stone to Ivorak [12/09/16 00:48] :Ivorak nods [12/09/16 00:49] :Aethon nods in satisfaction before climbing on top of his stone hoard and falling asleep [12/09/16 00:49] Dark Demon:I'm pretty sure Chew's tea has gone cold by now [12/09/16 00:49] Chewett:Nah I just made it [12/09/16 00:49] Kiley:Guys? How about this. It don't really matter, just help em' out.. Cream rises ya know. [12/09/16 00:49] Chewett:ready stready go? [12/09/16 00:49] Dark Demon:Fun fact: I spent more time in the past 3 hours in MD than the past 3 weeks. [12/09/16 00:50] Zleiphneir:Ive noted the alt points, go Chew. [12/09/16 00:50] Kiley: *nods matter of factly* and does does poohh pooooo. [12/09/16 00:51] Chewett:Hello all [12/09/16 00:51] Chewett:You havent seen me much lately mainly since iv been trying to code and not "manage" MD [12/09/16 00:51] Chewett:Also part of the reason is that my job has become a little busy, iv been recruiting minions, and we have some deadlines rubbish [12/09/16 00:51] Chewett:also health lol [12/09/16 00:52] *Syrian*:are you feeling better? [12/09/16 00:52] Chewett:But moving on, One of the key problems I was facing in MD before i "left" and hid was that, all of my time was not spent coding [12/09/16 00:52] Chewett:In actuality none of it was [12/09/16 00:52] Chewett:This was mainly because I was organising [12/09/16 00:53] Chewett:And I can organise, its fun, tbh anyone can, but many of you can organise, none of you can code (for md) [12/09/16 00:53] Chewett:We have some people who had some knowledge in coding, and I would love to employ you all, but you need training (since I dont think anyone is a good enough php/sql/js coder) [12/09/16 00:53] Chewett:Also, MD cant employ you since we are attempting to plow all money back into the day for a rainy day fund [12/09/16 00:54] Chewett:Sasha kinda destroyed us in that sense [12/09/16 00:54] Dark Demon:sasha lol [12/09/16 00:54] Chewett:So if anyone wants to code, it has to be freely like Mur and I [12/09/16 00:54] Chewett:Mur is currently doing some exciting work in a field that he is interested in [12/09/16 00:54] Chewett:And that has meant he has money, and doing a fun job, but he hasnt been coding MD [12/09/16 00:55] Chewett:He rarely replies to emails atm...but he does seem happy so thats good [12/09/16 00:55] Chewett:so we essentially have one GM, and one coder, being me [12/09/16 00:55] Chewett:If you want me to code, you need other people to run the game [12/09/16 00:55] Chewett:But if people dont step up, then we dont have that either [12/09/16 00:55] Chewett:I ahve focussed a lot on code in the past months now just to get things done [12/09/16 00:55] Dark Demon:What is the possibility of Mur hiring paid coders? [12/09/16 00:56] Chewett:But thats mainly just caused issues since no one is doing anything [12/09/16 00:56] Chewett:It took a lot of effort to organise the various festivals [12/09/16 00:57] Chewett:So we need people to step up and start to do organisiation [12/09/16 00:57] Chewett:I owe Z a couple beers (and now you have this in writing) since he is super good at doing what he does [12/09/16 00:57] Chewett:We need more Z's [12/09/16 00:57] Zleiphneir: (cheers) [12/09/16 00:57] Chewett:But we need people unlike Z [12/09/16 00:57] Chewett:Because we caant have a load of Z's [12/09/16 00:58] Chewett:Too many goats [12/09/16 00:58] Chewett:But to be serious, we need a variety of different people, but currently we need some do'ers [12/09/16 00:58] Chewett:Unless you want MD coding to just stop again, like it had been for most of the last year [12/09/16 00:59] Chewett:Now actually me just running MD and not coding kept it relatively stable [12/09/16 00:59] Chewett:But it meant we had no progress [12/09/16 00:59] Chewett:So its a bit of one, and a bit of another... which do you want? [12/09/16 00:59] Chewett:I think what Z is trying to promote is what we need [12/09/16 01:00] Chewett:and Im trying to organise some people, but I need to find more time for training [12/09/16 01:00] Chewett:There are some people in MD who want to help but dont know how to do it [12/09/16 01:00] Chewett:They rub people up the wrong way in how they do things, and this just causes more tensions [12/09/16 01:00] Chewett:They are good people, and have good hearts wanting to do things but in the end they are dispersuaded [12/09/16 01:00] Chewett:Im going to try and reach out to some of these people [12/09/16 01:00] Chewett:in the next couple months [12/09/16 01:01] Chewett:So, all in all, in my opinion, we need some players who will step up [12/09/16 01:01] Chewett:As to your questions, my health, it comes and goes [12/09/16 01:01] Chewett:And for paid coders [12/09/16 01:01] Chewett:You pay peanuts, you get monkies [12/09/16 01:02] Chewett:And for good coders, who will actually be able to do what we want, wont nesscarily be cheap [12/09/16 01:03] Chewett:To give an example, my skills are a masters degree in computer science with a specialism in Internet Security, pentration testing and "web stuff" [12/09/16 01:04] Chewett:So MD is fun, because its just what I do at work and I enjoy it [12/09/16 01:04] Chewett:Paying someone to do what I do would be faffy, in terms of cost and training them to "be md" [12/09/16 01:05] Chewett:Mur doesnt want coders who dont "get" MD, so I doubt he would even go for that idea [12/09/16 01:05] Chewett:Anyone have any comments or questions before I go sleep? [12/09/16 01:05] *Sunfire*:what about a new dude2 that does some minor things so you can focus on projects? [12/09/16 01:06] Chewett:dude2 was BFH and he now has a job and doesnt have time for MD [12/09/16 01:06] Dark Demon:I wasn't talking about game managers who are also coders. I meant coders who do what you command, literally. Who just code without knowing about MD etc [12/09/16 01:06] Chewett:what do you imagine dude3 would do? [12/09/16 01:07] Dark Demon:Well I can't describe it properly, it sounds weird but you get what I mean [12/09/16 01:07] *Sunfire*:page layout or small functions like that next creature one (well not sure how small it is) [12/09/16 01:07] Dark Demon:^ [12/09/16 01:07] Chewett:As for you DD, and partially sunfire, it needs a decent level of training as the MD architecture is a unique one [12/09/16 01:07] Chewett:making new items, for example, is simple [12/09/16 01:08] Chewett:But we need smarter solutions for stuff like the a25 clickables [12/09/16 01:08] Chewett:Sadly they dont really work, are laggy and kinda sucky [12/09/16 01:09] Chewett:Its essentially a prototype which works as a small thing, but not across MD [12/09/16 01:09] Chewett:look at the lab2, its super laggy [12/09/16 01:09] Chewett:cool idea,doesnt entirely work [12/09/16 01:10] Dark Demon:So why was so much time spend and so much hype etc for things that don't even work or which won't help MD in the long run? [12/09/16 01:10] Chewett:You misunderstand. [12/09/16 01:11] Chewett:A25 is the future, but it doesnt "work" properly in the back end [12/09/16 01:11] Chewett:The front end user experiance is what is will be, but it needs improvements [12/09/16 01:11] Chewett:It needs reworking [12/09/16 01:12] Chewett:Im prototyping some better solutions [12/09/16 01:13] Dark Demon:I need to go now. Thank you for your time, Chew, and for the discussion, everybody. [12/09/16 01:13] Dark Demon:Night [12/09/16 01:13] Zleiphneir:Chew, can you be specific in what it is you need from us to help? You mentionned organisers, is that what you're asking for? [12/09/16 01:13] Zleiphneir:Night DD [12/09/16 01:13] Dark Demon:I'd love to read the logs^^ [12/09/16 01:13] Zleiphneir: (logs wil be on the soundscape thread) [12/09/16 01:13] Chewett:yes [12/09/16 01:14] Zleiphneir:are you looking for people to contact you to become official organisers, or are you asking people to take initiative and just start doing things? [12/09/16 01:14] Chewett:Both [12/09/16 01:15] Chewett:I can appoint people and give them powers if they want [12/09/16 01:18] Zleiphneir:anyone have anything to say on that? [12/09/16 01:18] Zleiphneir:or are we all a bit brain dead now? [12/09/16 01:18] :Zleiphneir chuckles [12/09/16 01:18] *Syrian*: (im fairly brain dead, its past bed time) [12/09/16 01:19] *Sunfire*:coming up with an idea is the hardest point [12/09/16 01:19] Chewett:Perhaps reconvene sometime again? [12/09/16 01:20] Zleiphneir:yes, I think that may be a plan (sunfire- noted) [12/09/16 01:20] Zleiphneir:meeting ajourned! [12/09/16 01:20] Mallos:If speaking points are done we can go back to the original topic [12/09/16 01:20] *Syrian*: (that would be nice if it was an earlier time, i cant do the whole staying up till 7am anymore >_<) [12/09/16 01:20] Chewett:Thank you Z for arranging this Ivorak 1 Quote
dst Posted September 12, 2016 Report Posted September 12, 2016 On 9/11/2016 at 10:45 PM, (Zl-eye-f)-nea said: lack of payment for coders (read not enough coders), Expand This is a bit of a bs. And I will be frank, as always: we have a person who was willing to code for MD without any payment. And he's really good at it and with a lot of experience. Yes, I am talking about No one. But he was never allowed to because Mur "didn't trust him". Almost every suggestion he has made was dismissed or was later implemented without giving him the credit he deserves. He was willing to even code bits and pieces without having access to the whole. But heh...he's not good enough for MD. So whenever I see this issue brought up I feel how the level of hypocrisy rises some centimeters (inches for the ones not using the metric system). Aethon 1 Quote
(Zl-eye-f)-nea Posted September 16, 2016 Author Report Posted September 16, 2016 (edited) Okay people, it's time for a speaker! Monday the 19th of September at 23:00 server time hails the arrival of *****Lashtal*****, who will be talking about his experiences as Molquert and will be open to questions. This is the perfect time to learn about playing official character, what that involves and why. You'll be able to find out about the difficulties he experienced, how he kept his identity and his favorite moments, among other things. Lashtal has been given free reign on where he takes things so the discussion could go in any direction! I know I'm looking forward to it. Location: At the Howling GatesDate: 19th September (Monday)Time: 23:00s server time Be there or be square Z Edited September 16, 2016 by (Zl-eye-f)-nea dst 1 Quote
(Zl-eye-f)-nea Posted September 21, 2016 Author Report Posted September 21, 2016 (edited) Whoa if you missed it, Lashtal was epic. He gave us some real insights. I might post the log...if you're very lucky... Thursday the 29th of September at 22:00 server time we have another speaker! Let's welcome ***Aethon***, who will be talking about his journey through MD so far. I for one know Aethon has been through quite the number of experiences, so if you don't know his story, this is definitely one you don't want to miss! For new players, his is the story of the boy who lived! No wait...that's Harry Potter isn't it...ok well....his is the story of someone who got out there and really immersed himself from day one. Aethon will take the talk where he wants it to go, and I'm sure he'll answer your questions and offer tips if you ask nicely. Location: Underground...at the place with the stairs...Date: 29th September (Thursday)Time: 22:00 server time Be there or be square Z Edited September 27, 2016 by (Zl-eye-f)-nea Date update. Lintara, dst, Ivorak and 1 other 4 Quote
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