Udgard Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 about principles... Mur did say that there were more than 10 principles, just that the others haven't been found yet, so I doubt that the amount of papers correspond to the current 10 principles. It seems though, that it is possible to recreate the cube if you have the paper pieces (and some other knowledge). Time will explain more about this one though.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I am Bored Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 there were 2 cubes right? 6 sides a cube = 12 pages, or 12 principles.... but what those last 2 hidden principles are i don't know........ and i have seen the shiny rock the shades found. it doesn't look anything like a cube. [color="purple"]again, you know how to edit posts IAB,and those were 30 mins apart[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Admin Muratus del Mur Posted February 3, 2009 Author Root Admin Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 I feel like rewarding wishpoints for the awsome theories i read here but i wont spoil the story yet. Some are almost right some are wrong,but none is fully right yet. I can tell you one thing, you are getting a very good ideea then you ruin it by connecting it to apearences. you think of the clues given as complete and all matching together, but its wrong, and you forget to consider some of the "new" clues. The fact that none actualy managed to get the book is also such a "new" clue you somehow missed. Look at it as a forming puzzle not like a broken shape you have to put together. Oh and and other obvious clue .. why do you think shades or anybody else that got such a cube would know how to use it???! why do you think even the shades knew some fixed rules or ritual on how to do something about it? maybe whoever got it, if any at all, would do experiments with it as you are doing now to find out what happend. You are missing the DYNAMIC in this mystery, this is not a murder investigation , its an ongoing secret that needs more info from the past to define its present. Think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightsage Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Correct me if I'm wrong (I probably am) but could it be it is impossible to gain the wisdom of this whilst in this state of existence? Alche was made into dust before he became one with the principles... Maybe this state of existence disables us from comprehending what it all is... and as such we cannot use the cube... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormrunner Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 then look while in a diffent one lightsage, to protect something from the strong make so only the weakest of the weak can get it, in fact when was the last time somebody checked the mountain, I would try to fond a way myself but I'm busy doing other stff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty4life Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 oke so lets think a bit about it, why akasha and alche didnt got the book? hmm its somehow mystery, all i know is that cube/book protects its self, but also lets think a bit again about it, why cube, whats inside it? well inside it is what you put into it, if we look at cube which angien "pulled out of ground and smashed it to release/create our realm" then other cube golemus brothers used to create golem, but cube went unstable and golemus golemicarum was result, so in both cases cubes lost their shape/stability and created new world or new part of it, so in order to do something like that, i mean to create realm/world/universe, what ever, so principals are rules on which world is based on, so lets imagine universe, well to make it simple imagine a cube and put in it all principals ya want, it could be 1,2,3,5,10,20, etc principals, its up to you to think of how many you can imagine and put into one pile, so this principals are rules, so you assigned this rules to your imagined world, and this world will continue to grow/evolve/expand/(wot ever), by this rules (principals), so to cut other staff out i will just say that my point is that cube COULD be itself book of principals coz in it are principals, well it could be that its real book in cube, i mean book with explanations, written by hand, but it could be my first guess that it is called "book" becoz of metaphorical meaning also dont get me wrong i dont think in cube is other world, i just think in it are principals and nothing else, principals wont shape anything if in it is just space/nothing, and principals are balanced inside it, so nothing can work out, first cube i mentioned in here built this realm only after angien "released" it, so principals got in touch with energy/matter and world got created, in second example cube it self was created by base elements but there was only 3 of them, so without 4th element there was no balance and cube got unstable just some thoughts Clock Master, Kyphis the Bard and Ackshan Bemunah 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightsage Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 It would also explain why whoever has it wouldn't use it: the consequences are by far to dangerous and unpredictable... they'd be looking for more information because of that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awiiya Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 I have a theory about all of this... humor me. Akasha approached the pyramids in a very concrete manner. She took each piece of paper, and looked for the physical Book of Principles. On the pieces of paper was nothing (or perhaps... something hidden, but who is to say, I've never seen them), and furthermore when she saw they were blank she refused to accept the obvious lack of physicality of the books, and proceeded to write them herself. Alche took a slightly less concrete manor, realizing that the pages might be a red herring or perhaps have deeper than face value. He, however, still believed in a concrete book, only this time he took a less concrete path. By entering the middle pyramid and imagining he was in the fire, he was, although what he found came close to the truth of the Book of Principles, it was not fully realized. The Cube carried by Knator Commander was another such physical presence, and in my opinion, another red herring. The Cube itself holds no power, the power of suggestion, rather, is what attracted the Shades. Knator Commander believed they held something important, and so as a result the Shades believed they did as well. Continuing on this path, let's think for a moment of the Golemus Wizard, who claimed that there is no Book of Principles. Akasha, of course, could not believe this, and as a result began making his claim false by creating a Book where there was none. However, I think the Wizard stumbled on to the truth. There is no physical Book of Principles, just as there is no physical form of love, innately given to this world. The Book needs to be created or imagined, but to search for it will lead only to nothing. The Book exists somewhere on the Mount because we all imagine it does, and it will exist within the hands of an adventurer when we all believe that he possess the book. This tale of the "second cube," I believe, is another such thing. The Shades were sent after the "Cube" that Knator Commander had for one of two reasons. One, they believe along with Knator Commander that the cube holds a deep secret, or two they realize that the true power of the Cube is not the Cube itself, but what it represents. Therefore, it would make sense that the Shades do not need the Cube, the Book of Principles, or any other such item, because it is not the item from which power comes, but from the individual and the idea formed within the individual (often inspired by the item). Although it is likely that the Shades would want to give the Illusion that they are indeed after the Cube so as to keep the Myth of the book alive and running, and to let it hide the truth. The Book of Principles holds power because of the Principles it represents. If you understand the Principles, you can control and change them. If you can control and change them, you possess in your hands the Book of Principles. Do I make sense? Awi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty4life Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 yes kinda yes i like it, well few minor unimportant things.... nvm also there is another possibility, why would loreroot high command sent out just like that young squad of warriors with such a precious cargo? maybe it was a bait ^^ again assumption, and we have in this topic lots of assumptions, and questions is what is true Clock Master and Kyphis the Bard 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowseeker Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 It sounds weird, but could the cube actually be in the House of Liquid Dust? One theory of mine is that something aggraviates the Shades there, and also keeps them alive as well...which is the exception outside of Necrovion. The Shade in there was experimenting, and he gave us a cube. But where does this cube come from? Perhaps it's just a copy of the cube the Shade holds, and we in a sense are the guinea pigs. Other than that I can't remember any other special cubes so far. And the Shades collecting cubes seems to be because they know of the experimenting one in the house...which also explains Liquid Dust, which was created accidentally when the cube was used to mess with some things. And to the Book...I think it's different, and it's just the entire collections of Inner Magic available. So in a sense you need to discover more to find more pages from that "Book", because Principles are what power Inner Magic...and WP of course. [But I assume the WP as a catalyst or an ingredient which is used up, not the main part and also to regulate the amount of people who can use Inner Magic] Golemus was always trying to combine Magic and science, which the fact that they were able to tame shades shows. Shades cannot cross over to GG, so how did they get there? I think the Book is the research and knowledge gained through it in itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yami no Sakura Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 ...I think Awi's theory is on to something here. If the Book of Principles itself isn't something tangible, it could explain why nobody (that we know of) can physically obtain it. There's more too, but I'm gonna think this over before saying anything. It's really getting late right now, and I don't trust myself to be able to say things correctly. xP @Shadowseeker: The one who gave us the cube wasn't in the House of Liquid Dust. Well...at least, that's not where we were handed the cube. If you could remember, that guy showed up after we fought all the Shades, which would mean he appeared in the Fields of Abandonment. In any case...yeah...we are pretty much guinea pigs. If not guinea pigs, then at least toys. The one who gave us our cubes almost definitely did it to serve his own means...However...I'm not sure if what he is doing is representative of all the Shades' agenda... [color="#FF0000"]EDIT:[/color] Okay, so I pinged ideas back and forth with Awi, and I think I have something. Here is my theory: The Book of Principles does in fact exist. However, it is intangible and is intensely personal. The Shades may or may not know about this concept, but even if they do, they do not understand it. The explanation will follow tomorrow. It's 3 in the morning, and I need to sleep...x_x Jester, Ackshan Bemunah and death ray 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulTear Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 I was thinking about what Manu said about appearances and while I'm not sure if he was referring to my post it may be that Akasha did not turn into the Shade Sentinel but rather that her act of writing the Book of Principles caused the Shade Sentinel to form in Necrovion as a reflection or manifestation of that book (perhaps as a corruption of the real one?). Consider that Khalzadad instigated contact with the shades shortly after Akasha was writing her book(after which we did not hear from her anymore) starting The Shade Balance saga before Alche's quest for The Book was even complete. The whole act of Akasha deciding to write her own version of The Book of Principles may have started the chain of events that led to The Shade Balance as much as Wodin's creation did. Also Manu said that the Book of Principles was never found but didn't Alche turn into The Book when he touched the flame and evolved to a higher form? Cause I was under the impression that that is what happened though I guess I was wrong and the real book (a physical thing?) is still hidden somewhere. Another thought: the same player that plays Akasha may be the one the plays the Shade Sentinel too since as I said in my pervious post we stopped seeing Akasha around the time we started seeing the Shade Sentinel. death ray and Kyphis the Bard 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braiton Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 [quote name='Yami no Sakura' post='24905' date='Feb 8 2009, 03:27 AM']...I think Awi's theory is on to something here. If the Book of Principles itself isn't something tangible, it could explain why nobody (that we know of) can physically obtain it. There's more too, but I'm gonna think this over before saying anything. It's really getting late right now, and I don't trust myself to be able to say things correctly. xP @Shadowseeker: The one who gave us the cube wasn't in the House of Liquid Dust. Well...at least, that's not where we were handed the cube. If you could remember, that guy showed up after we fought all the Shades, which would mean he appeared in the Fields of Abandonment. In any case...yeah...we are pretty much guinea pigs. If not guinea pigs, then at least toys. The one who gave us our cubes almost definitely did it to serve his own means...However...I'm not sure if what he is doing is representative of all the Shades' agenda...[/quote] Later in chapter 3, (if you chose the right path) you meet a strange being with a top hat and a cane, who asks you to hand in the cube. And it was more a shade-being, those who followed that path know what i mean. Know, why would, if the being that gave us the cube on the Fields Of Abandonment was a shade, why would it give us the cube and then later asked by more shades to hand it back? Kyphis the Bard and death ray 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormrunner Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 not all the shades are the same, Braiton, those outside necrovion do not agree with those inside last I checked, but my info isn't the best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulTear Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 I think the 'being' that give you the cube at the beginning is Jack Willow who is trying to save you from the Shades from the House of Liquid Dust that surround you. He has become 'part' of those shades I think but still is able to maintain his own identity to some degree and perhaps sees you as someone that could potentially save Marind. The cube that he gives you is actually the wooden cube where you meet Marind and after you take it you get absorbed into it before coming out of it eventually in Chapter 2. Note that as in the story each of us still has the wooden cube in our possession, at least all the story choices I made ended up with me picking up the wooden cube and putting it in my pocket. Anyway thats how I interpreted the story when I went through it. death ray and Kyphis the Bard 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awiiya Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Ah, Jack Willow, I never made the connection. A good theory. Awi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty4life Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 its all old stuff which are...... most likely false as for akasha and shade sentinel, well we didnt heard from her becoz she stopped playing now she is back so you may want to ask her more about it ingame, and i dont think that person who plays akasha plays shade sentinel, and even if she does plays both accounts we cant refer to akasha as shade sentinel and vise verse, same thing with mur and knatty and with me and my libs, when i play as Liberty, i am Liberty damn it, when i play as one of libs then i am one of them, i am not Liberty then, when i play as bunny then i am bunny, end of story, same thing with mrd and giggles, etc etc not even when there once was black'n'white khalazdad, not even them you couldnt spoke to them as same person although same person plays both accounts, after all this is roleplaying and one can play one role (or more if person has split personalities) per account, so you have to threat them as different persons no matter if irl they are same persons, kapish? Clock Master and Kyphis the Bard 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braiton Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 I know who plays as the Shade Sentinel death ray and Kyphis the Bard 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yami no Sakura Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 [quote name='Braiton' post='24936' date='Feb 8 2009, 10:55 PM']Later in chapter 3, (if you chose the right path) you meet a strange being with a top hat and a cane, who asks you to hand in the cube. And it was more a shade-being, those who followed that path know what i mean. Know, why would, if the being that gave us the cube on the Fields Of Abandonment was a shade, why would it give us the cube and then later asked by more shades to hand it back?[/quote]I know what/who you're talking about, Braiton. I'm on that path. My reply to this is that that Shade is most likely not the same as the one who handed us the cube. As I've said, the one who gave us the cube has his own agenda that is not necessarily the same as what Necrovion wants. I have no proof of this, but I don't think that the cube-giver and cube-taker are the same. @Awi: I know for certain that the guy who gave us the cube is NOT Jack Willow. I'm 100% sure. death ray and Kyphis the Bard 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty4life Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 yea same here, but again i think we got offtopic Kyphis the Bard and Clock Master 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowseeker Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 According to what I know the cube-taker and giver are not the same as stated. it's more like one gives and the other collects, interested in what the other one does. In a certain branch of storyline you get to see a whole bunch of boxes collected, and they make you see things. Perhaps it has some sort of power, or is your soul as Khalazdad suspects? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calyx of Isis Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 [quote name='King Bull' post='24577' date='Jan 31 2009, 02:49 PM']... when Khalazdad the Black Merged with Khalazdad the White at the House of liquid Dust there was a cube there held by SageWoman in this Cube the merge had to take place for Khalazdad to become the Grey. I believe this cube to be made of diamond. I have heard Khalazdad speak of a Gold Cube. this Gold Cube may hold a soul and Khalazdad spoke about this Gold Cube to be lost in Loreroot, but was unsure. I know where this diamond cube is and it is safe.. The Gold may hold the soul of Marind Bell since we all have a cube given to us in the story a little wooden box.... a wooden cube! i believe the shades have the cube but do not know how to use it...[/quote] I've not heard of the gold cube. From this context it may have been the cube holding Khalazdad the White, originally called the "white box." As Khalazdad the Black was fracturing, the White was able to escape and go about MD only while Khalazdad was sleeping. On the last day of the September 2008 festival the final showdown occurred. Two important players failed to appear, Yrthilian and GlorDamar. Yr had taken the box and hidden it when Wodin turned his back and was supposed to bring the box to the final showdown. SageWoman and I knew that Wodin had had the box until just before festival. However I never asked Yr the right question so I did not discover he was the box holder until after the festival. I have never asked Glor about the role he was supposed to play. I think White was supposed to come with him. In any case two things happened that were not supposed to. The white box did not show up and Morrel and Gargant simultaneously struck Khalazdad with fatal blows. When Khalazdad disappeared into the House of Liquid Dust we all thought he was dead. SageWoman and I received the news where we were hiding in Golemus. We had a frantic 15 minutes trying to figure out what to do. I suggested the Principle of Imagination and rewriting the ending. She had received a large diamond days earlier from an unrelated roleplay. I suggested that the diamond could hold the soul and under the right lighting might look like a gleaming white box. SageWoman the recalled other role play during the week including hints she had received about sacrificing herself. She had exacted a promise from Khalazdad. At that point she made me promiss not to interfere with her next role play, her self sacrifice. Khalazdad was having the same problems we were. And though he PMed SageWoman a few times he never said he was also rewriting the ending. As a consequence Khalazdad the White appeared before SageWoman and I arrived on scene. For the purposes of the recorded story in the archives, Yami and I decided to write the TRUTH, the diamond arrived before White did (our memories are merely a little flawed due to MD's magic). Conclusion: The white box and the diamond are one and the same. I do not know if they it even still exist or have relevance to the search for the second cube. The Gold Cube may be equivalent to the diamond / white box. I suspect only Khalazdad can tell us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowseeker Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 The cube of Khalazdad still exists: See yrthilian's inventory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yami no Sakura Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 Okay...let's bring this baby back from the dead. >D First order of business: Sorry for the really delayed reply. I meant to post the explanation to my theory a while ago, but one thing led to another...so yeah. Here it is now! For your convenience, here is my theory again: The Book of Principles does in fact exist. However, it is intangible and is intensely personal. The Shades may or may not know about this concept, but even if they do, they do not understand it. BWAHAHAHAHA!!! Fear the spoiler tags! xDD [spoiler]The Knator Commander once told me who was passing out the cubes and what they are. Or rather, what they are representative of. He told me that, and I quote, "Poetically speaking, it's built out of our own walls...Humans tend to limit their horizons and build the cube around them..." The walls are connected to our own personal experiences and are, therefore, uniquely personal. Back to the Book. If the cubes are supposed to surround and protect the Book of Principles, it can be argued that the Book itself has the same innate uniqueness as the cubes. This also means that [u]we each carry our own Book of Principles.[/u] Also, remember how the Book is supposed to be made up of the Principles? Well, each of us also have our own set. We pick our own Principles each time we move up the MPs, and we further them based on the decisions we make in storymode. As Mur had said before, our unique player DNA ensures that no two people have the exact same profile. If the Book of Principles is made up of our own Principles (not necessarily a combination of [i]all[/i] the overarching Principles), then technically we each have our own Book. It is completely unique and personal because no two people have the exact same experiences (and therefore, not the same Principles). Not to mention that our own personal limits (that is, our cubes) are different. And since all of these factors (our limitations - cube - and our Principles) are generally intangible, this would also render the Book to be intangible. I would say that we each carry our own Book of Principles. We have it with us at all times whether we know it our not. And the Book is controlled by our personal limitations. As humans, though, there are just some things that we simply cannot do (meaning that we can't go nuts with the Principles and end up hurting ourselves or those around us). However, within these boundaries, the Commander told me that we can manipulate our cubes. Actually...that's probably not a good word. We can "change" and "modify" our cubes. Obviously, if we changed what we perceive to be our limits we can (to a some extent) our limits, our Principles, and in turn our Book. So...where do the Shades fit into this? Well, one of the things we learned from the Shade Balance story is that the Shade have no individuality. They're like drops of water in an ocean, to use that analogy. They are incapable of having unique experiences and memories. Therefore, they cannot form their own cubes, and they cannot further their own set of Principles (even if they could possess some). As for the color/shape changing that happened to the Knator soldiers and Khal's group... I think that that is an effect of the walls of the cube (our limitations) reacting to the Shades.[/spoiler] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormrunner Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 sakura your theory is scary, mad, depressing and makes sense, probably a few more things that I don't even know about good job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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