now totally unfair outcome of feb/march head contest

[Liberty4life]

eh thats the spirit guys

[Tarquinus]

[quote name='Lifeline' post='28167' date='Apr 4 2009, 09:02 AM']what happened in this headcontest just had to happen. everybody who loves the headcontest and cant particpate again got really punished by last winners being able to win again.
of course mp3 and mp4 winner would surely win again. and seeing that, old winners would for sure try to stop aia from winning again.[/quote]
Nonsense. I took first, largely on mine own and with help from the incompetence of a certain interfering MP6 with nothing to gain. Those who harbour some kind of deep resentment against Aia should confess their real problem, which doth seem to me to be largely one of petulance.

[Lifeline]

[quote name='Tarquinus' post='28242' date='Apr 5 2009, 04:39 AM']Nonsense. I took first, largely on mine own and with help from the incompetence of a certain interfering MP6 with nothing to gain. Those who harbour some kind of deep resentment against Aia should confess their real problem, which doth seem to me to be largely one of petulance.[/quote]

u dont understand i dont have anything against aia and i am sure others dont as well. but with aia winning first again many former winners got cheated out of all their efforts. and the head medal became nothing but a burden because they cant partcipate again. and now it turned into an even bigger curse because it becomes totally worthless if people run around with 2. or even 2 gold medals.
they participated in times where they didnt know that later winning would mean not being able to particpate anymore. that couldnt be changed but made the medal of some players to a huge burden they would prefer to give up. and now with people being allowed to win twice especially when at the time they knew that they couldnt participate again it makes the situation even worse. i got a gold medal that i would glady trow away. i cant imagen how it is for people who were forced onto second place because of similar or even worse abuses and now have to stick with a normal medal and see this new change of events.
dont get me wrong i can understand that former winners arent allowed to collect heads again and that is fine with me (at least on mp3 and mp4). the key point stiring all this ill will is winners gaining more than one gold medal.

[Tarquinus]

But I myself am a gold medal winner and do not feel the contest has been cheapened by anything but cheating. I salute Aia for taking my advice: she was tempted to use the offline attack bug - it's no secret, you know - in retaliation against Liberty, but I encouraged her to take the "high road" and not stoop to his level.

You wish to compete again: well, I am sorry you feel cheated, but the word of Muratus is good enough for me. I am one of the apparently few former winners who will NOT go to any lengths to prevent others from picking up second medals, and did my utmost to frustrate the attempts of those who, in my view, were bad sports about Aia's very strong second showing and went to the most ludicrous lengths, including cowering atop the Paper Cabin and cycling the portal to keep others from getting up there, to try to stop her. She very nearly claimed first again anyway, as she is intelligent and a superb duelist.

I appreciate skill. I honour maturity. I would like to see those who are skilled putting their skills to constructive purpose rather than complaining [i]ad nauseam[/i] about their inability to repeat the joys of a contest that is fun mainly for the elite. You are a strong fighter, Lifeline, and you seem a decent fellow. Does this contest really mean so much to you?

[Lifeline]

[quote name='Tarquinus' post='28252' date='Apr 5 2009, 12:33 PM']But I myself am a gold medal winner and do not feel the contest has been cheapened by anything but cheating. I salute Aia for taking my advice: she was tempted to use the offline attack bug - it's no secret, you know - in retaliation against Liberty, but I encouraged her to take the "high road" and not stoop to his level.

You wish to compete again: well, I am sorry you feel cheated, but the word of Muratus is good enough for me. I am one of the apparently few former winners who will NOT go to any lengths to prevent others from picking up second medals, and did my utmost to frustrate the attempts of those who, in my view, were bad sports about Aia's very strong second showing and went to the most ludicrous lengths, including cowering atop the Paper Cabin and cycling the portal to keep others from getting up there, to try to stop her. She very nearly claimed first again anyway, as she is intelligent and a superb duelist.

I appreciate skill. I honour maturity. I would like to see those who are skilled putting their skills to constructive purpose rather than complaining [i]ad nauseam[/i] about their inability to repeat the joys of a contest that is fun mainly for the elite. You are a strong fighter, Lifeline, and you seem a decent fellow. Does this contest really mean so much to you?[/quote]

i was watching this months whole contest and saw the stuff with the gazeboo ect. i am well aware of what happened on both sides this month. i really love the head contest i dont like that i cant participate anymore but its fine. i dont complain against that. the decisions of winners not being able to collect heads makes sense (at least on mp3 and mp4). but i really wonder why a few month after this new rule 10players are all of teh sudden allowed to win again. i miss the logical connection there especially since it wasnt that unbalanced unfair for those being allowed to win again. anyway i already said all this and wont repeat myself.

the most fun i ever had in the game was during my head contest and thats why it means so much to me. i placed in mp4 together with shady jester, cutler and cryxus. those are all high class players so i suppose u can understand how much planning was needed to place first.
right now most fights are something like 0%-5% to 100% most of the time. its boring. people dont even have a real def rit set up. its mostly a tree or a random rit anyway. or something weak that gives no more than 2000xp. there is no challenge no anything.
in the head contest u needed a victorious to really archieve something. it is very strategical on the part of ritual settings and tons of politics involved making sure that nothing goes wrong. outside of the headcontest fighting is rather dull. but i am getting off topic here so i will leave it at that

[lightsage]

You don't think her strong showing had anything to do with the rewards she got the first time round, now would it?

[Burns]

or with RPCs help, or with 'usage of game meachnics'...
seriously, it has been done by almost every winner, i'm no exception to that, but two wins based on unfair means is just... well, it creates a feeling that's a bit weird at the very least -.-

and if HC was about intelligence and strenght, we would have had very different outcomes in the last few months, it's ALL about politics since roughly dec-jan contest... there was kind of a passage since sep-oct-contest, when the MRs did a great performance as group :/
up to then, good fighters had a fair chance, but nowadays... no real chance without the right connections, or really reckless bug-using

too bad that we are going that far for that medal these days...

[stormrunner]

I agree with burns on this one, I used to have a small chance, but now days in less I went and begged the right people there no chance in hell, I didn't it even look at the score during this last one

oh and heres a odd note way back near this time last year during the week I was mp 4 I probably could have placed but I got bored and lost the heads I had, so on a whim I attacked the loreroot guards and won, also reached the cap in that fight, so I want to mp 5, only time I'v been even close.

that was before all the B.S. that comes with the head hunt now days, tell the showed up I did try for atleast of few hours but I have a short attention span for such things

[Tarquinus]

[quote]You don't think her strong showing had anything to do with the rewards she got the first time round, now would it?[/quote]
Well, lightsage, an'if thou couldst evaluate her with anything like objectivity, thou mightst learn wherefore I say so. She had far less help this time around, and her skills as a duelist improved, not so much her reliance on credits or boosted statistics.

[quote post='28257' date='Apr 5 2009, 09:51 AM']or with RPCs help, or with 'usage of game meachnics'...
seriously, it has been done by almost every winner, i'm no exception to that, but two wins based on unfair means is just... well, it creates a feeling that's a bit weird at the very least -.-[/quote]
With deepest respect, Burns, I find this implication distasteful. Aia did not 'use game mechanics' the way her opponents did, in either contest: that is to say, she did not cheat. That they stooped to such extremes to defeat Aia makes me think Clock Master and his loathsome accomplice feared her, which, in its perverse way, were quite the compliment; and they have sullied themselves, whether they acknowledge it or no.

As for the help of RPCs, prithee, Sieur: do not make me laugh. Thou hast seen the outcome of too many head contests even to murmur of that, I believe. Thy complaint is with the decision of Muratus. Conflate not that resentment with unseemly jealousy of a much younger player. Thou'rt a better sort than that.

[lightsage]

5 birds is a cheated up ritual? Or are thou referring to taking heads with a low level elemental or a maxed elemental? I don't think I've used anything besides that, 6 archers, or 3 grassans lately...

EDIT: replaced you by thou for better understanding

[Tarquinus]

I regretted saying that almost immediately, and took it out. I apologise.

[Burns]

after reading your comment three times, loukas, i'm afraid that there are many ways to cheat which are not counted as cheating by everybody...

for example, hiding on paper cabin roof and having another player messing the GoE all the time is cheating imo, even though it's just using normal game mechanics in a totally normal way...
then there's 40 min ally-cooldown, which is nothing but another form of cheating in my eyes, ally and land stat-boosts, 'predicting counts' [thou know what i'm talking about], jumping to leader (who is sitting at wasp's chamber by mere chance, obviously] after leaving through LR hidden exit, and i could carry on with that list for ages...

i'm not being jealous of any player at all, not of rusties, not of credits, not of medals, nothing of that sort, i'm doing my thing here and having fun, and if others have fun in another way, well, their choice, but i will go to any lenghts to fight for a 'fair' HC for all players, and Aia is just a perfect victim for all the ranting that needs to be done, as she definitely understands that i like her nonetheless (i even stopped from attacking her, for hell's sake, just because she asked...)

PS: i like your way of talking, Tarquinus, but it's hard to read at some points :/
[please keep your style, but please don't be angry with me if i miss some of your points from time to time^^]
oh, and don't think that you can shut me up by telling me that you are thinking i might be 'better than that' or 'should know better than to say such things', i like compliments of other good players, but they are not exactly my drug... in fact, i don't really care what you are thinking of me, as long as i know that i did achieve the ends i was aiming for^^

[Lifeline]

why do u guys even argue if something is more unfair or not that is still within the game mechanics? it is obviously stated that the head contest is unfair and in my point of view people there is nothing bad at all about the 40mins attack delay from people who earned entry into the game. u guys know perfectly what u have done to win or let ur friends win from setting up a whole network of people spying and protecting each area of the game to using ghost rituals and that sort of thing.

there are countless ways to 'cheat' in the head contest some get removed others not. for example the keeping or loosing of score when u transfer mp level. now one can have 2 views on that. of course its unfair if a mp4 jumps right before the end of the head contest to mp5 and takes first place there because mp5s have in generall lower score. but on the other hand its also unfair that people who see that they cant win anymore simply jump mp level and force their 4th place onto somebody else who never wanted it and didnt see that coming. we saw this quite a lot in this month contest. at least 2 players who would have placed jumped and forced their normal medal on another player.

i dont think its possible to make a head contest fair and think that keeping it unfair is fine. of course things such as offline attacks should get fixed and a ghost ritual isnt nice as well but that is gone now. but mere things as messing with the gazeboo or abusing alliances is not that bad. and by the way its funny seeing u say she fought honorable, u didnt because u used gazeboo or whatever. how do u define what of those things is more or less unfair? kinda childish if people claim that he or a friend won by using less abuses than the others, because we all know that u have to use unfair means to place first.

but anyway people manage to place in the head contest and they know that it is unfair. they prepare for it being unfair. they know that anything can happen that cold cost their possible first place. but they still compete taking that risk. those who do place first should then get something that has real value like a gold medal. but a gold medal isnt worth as much anymore if there are 10 players that have 2 medals some of them being gold as well.

[Liberty4life]

all this talk about honor and cheating in hc, well let me tell ya something tarquinus, i see that fair and honorable have same meaning to you in one sentence and in other it doesnt, if things are in little nice interface you see it oke to use it and you fell ya havent done anything wrong you remained honorable, but if it is out of interface ya see it as unfair and cheating, well may players see organizing hc and all this setups as cheating, using alliances and such, well i could mention again everything others mentioned in this topic but, there is no reason to repeat things, so stop saying this was fair and that was unfair, when players stop helping each others, and when everything, i really mean EVERYTHING, pms alliances, alts, except attacking gets excluded then we can start talking about fair hc, everything else is unfair and unhonorable, in other words, when you take all this in consideration, what ever ya did, if ya was ever competing in hc ya can count yourself as unhonorable man, becoz for me and many more people everything done in hc except fighting&running is unfair thing to do, and judging what is fair and what not... about that i cant say much except no matter how low in which of your "levels" of how much thing is fair ya place it, it still isnt fair, ya cant compare things like, knowing when count will happen is less fair than jumping to leader, both is unfair, and no matter that jump to leader is in interface that doesnt makes it fair to use and doesnt justifies it, there are no gray levels, although everyone sees them, in this case only pure white "level" (running and fighting) is fair, all others colors, even the brightest gray, all is counted as black

over&out

[Lifeline]

omg i already have a really hard time reading tarquinus 'highborn nobility' way of speaking, or however u want to call it, but liberty is about the same. jesus dude ever heard of a period? this is really amazing managing to make a sentence that is a whole paragraph without a single period.
tarq only makes it impossible for people who dont have really high skills in english to understand what he says but lib makes my head hurt, desperatly searching for a period to have a rest.
hmm this reminds me of middle age where the elites didnt want common townsman to understand them. and didnt even speak the language they learned as mother tongue in their country. and this brings me back to the head contest. tarq said its mainly for the elites anyway. well ur way of roleplaying is only for the elites of other countries (countries that dont have english as mothertongue) to understand. if u already exclude a majority of players from even understanding what u say and roleplay why do u complain about the head contest being unfair because its just winable for the elite?
now dont get me wrong i dont critizes how u present ur character in MD. i just say that a statement like: "a contest that is fun mainly for the elite" sounds very wrong coming from u.

[Burns]

lifeline, read a novel of Thomas Bernhard ['Der Atem' oder 'Der Keller' are the best of him imo] and you'll get used to Lib's style of writing ;-)

i guess Loukas is right when saying that HC is most fun for the elite players, but that is not unfair in itself, as any player can win a contest if he spends some time on strategy, you can take all the time you need to rise your stats... and if it takes you 300 days, then it just takes you that long, that's no problem for HC

but it is kind of unfair that players who spend a year or more on training for a HC have totally no chance because they are casual gamers and don't make enough / the right connections, THAT is unfair...

everyone can become an elite mp3 with less than an hour per week within a few months, but you can't win a HC through being elite :nea:

[Lifeline]

burns isnt this a roleplaying game? so u should not just concentarte all ur efforts on fighting but also on making connections.
when i won my head contest in mp4 i was really new to the realm i didnt even had enough age on my ele to target multiple. no lore crit even near max upgrading level. people didnt realize how weak i was. i could defend my heads but i couldnt attack a strong with vitality boosted rit. wait lets calculate ...i had about 50 active days back then. but that time was enough to be able to plan out a heacontest in which i could win. even if i obviously lagged teh strenght in creatures.
mp3 is only about strong creatures. but mp4 is the mp level with the most roleplay anyway so they should be prepared for a head contest that is more about politics than actually fighting strenght. and well mp5 takes both former levels to an extreme. i really like that about the headcontest. if u know the game and are a strong fighter than u shoudl try at mp3. if u are a roleplayer u have the best chance at mp4.

[Burns]

i was just throwing in that even in an RP game, there are some casual gamers with 1-2 hours per week as well as a few pros like us with 3 or more online hours per day, and imo, there should be a reasonable chance to win a HC for the dedicated casual gamer, too, and not only for the pros who spend hours in chats and ask people from all over the world to help them...
you know, it shouldn't be easy, it's a contest after all, but a fighter should get a chance as well as a diplomat gets his chance, and if the fighter is strong enough and has some good rituals at hand, he shouldn't be afraid of some weaklings interferring 'his' HC throu using a bunch of bugs and heads that are originally from another MP level and 'unreachable'...

i'd copy in a link to our 'new HC' topic, but i'm too lazy to search it right now...

[No one]

As a "rusting" old player and winner of this HC (5k ve, 5k vp , 15$, non golden badge), it would be fun to be able to play again.


As being acquainted to bugs (bug researcher), the only things that i call abuse in a HC is RPC interfering in the game. The rest is "game mechanics". And those that don't know how the game works are those that are not happy with the way HC goes ... hmm [spoiler] , i think mur doesn't know much either [/spoiler]

Another thing that can be called as abuse (or mur's mistake) is allowing remote locations as paper cabin roof be countable for HC score.

In short, mur created this contest to find out how the features of the game (and bugs) can be used and to use the results to fix whatever was too much. If mur was "agreed" to say that this time bugs were abused too much and changed the rules, then ... it is another abuse, but hey, it is MUR.


Unfortunately for LS and V, someone had the strength to "agree" mur to say that this is bug abuse.
Oh well, bad luck for you LS and V [spoiler] , and too bad for you mur, it ruins your reputation [/spoiler].

See you around.

[MRWander]

I seemed to have missed a good contest I wish I had been here so I could comment properly.

[I am Bored]

places like the paper cabin roof are easy to get to for those who know how.