WAR

[Guybrush Threepwood]

It seems to me that there was an election (or rather still is as it's not yet been tallied.) I assume that Yrthilian will have the good graces to wait until the outcome of the election is known. If he loses he ends up in jail, no one dies and GG gets what Yrthilian wants.

That being said, if there are good reasons that Raven should not be the leader, why would someone who does not want him as leader not make this information public while an election is taking place? Is killing everyone really better than letting them in on information about their own leader? Perhaps the information is sensitive in some other manner?

I do know that I seem to be coming down on Yrthilian (not that my opinion could possibly make a difference to this ordeal, I am after all not a "big boy"), but that is not at all what I mean to be doing. I'm just a little confused about this tight lip policy.

Edited April 10, 2009 by Guybrush Threepwood

[Kragel]

ok a second post

i had ask Mur if i could reopen the Creators alliance it fits well with making items and will be a place for the creator council to speak also

this should in my thinking be a neutral alliance much like the artisans and archies because we serve all and in doing so belong to no one mans land thusly i would restate my neutrality and ask Mur if he would place the land for the creators as NML or MDA to help further reflect the neutral nature ... NML i think would make since because of the weapon shop being there and because of the fact it is the most truly neutral land in the game


so once again for the record I AM NEUTRAL

and i will wait til this war is over to invite anyone else into the alliance those being the ones who have creation powers

thanks again
The Neutral
Kragel
Your Metal Mage

[Necromancer Mortis]

surely if yrthilian wants people to die for his war then they deserve to know the reasons.

for if he does not give a reason then he appears at best a power grabbing dictator, so far i have herd no reason therefore must assume that is the truth. should a good reason be forthcoming i will gladly change my tune.

also it has occured to me that this may be a bluff to sway the election in or out of raven's favour.

at the very least make the propoganda that is given out plausible for this is rubbish

[Kyphis the Bard]

Based on what I have Read on this forumn topic and no other (including those refered to), and on no other information. The following are the stated facts relating to the outbreak and conditions of this war.
If a fact is incorrect, I will require a statement saying so from the original poster of the information, ALL OTHER OBJECTIONS WILL BE IGNORED.

> Yrthilian has declared war on Loreroot for many reasons, and has chossen to state only a few:
* Loreroot has become fragmented, and he doesn't believe the treaty will remain intact for much
longer
* Loreroot has become unstable, and Yrthilian does not believe Raven is the one to make things right
* Political defence of his more well known citizens (MRD). This is stated as the "Last Straw" event,
and therefor only a MINOR motivator
(Yrthilian's statement)

> It has been publicly announced that the advice of .Knator Commander. was denied and ignored, and
that great dishonour was visited upon him when he was requested to be demoted. As such, he has
retired from the service of Loreroot
(Muratus del Mur's statement)

> Yrthilian has declared that war will continue until one of two things occurs:
* Raven steps down
* Raven is assasinated
(Yrthilian's statement)

> While Yrthilian does not feel Raven is the right person to leader Loreroot, he feels they have many
potential leaders in their ranks
(Yrthilian's statement)

> Raven has declared that he will protect Loreroot from unnecesary bloodshed, and has stepped down
(Raven's statement)

> Raven tried to lead as best he can, and the image of a power hungry, selfish and self-centred ruler
he has been portraid as is inaccurate and unfair
(Raven's statement)

> Under Raven's leadership, the Loreroot alliance has begun to repair and restrengthen it's position
and unity
(Raven's statement, supported by others)

> The Loreroot alliance doesn't feel their land is fractured
(Collective statement)

> Many alliances refuse to join this conflict at this point
(Collective statement)

> Lady Ailith has asserted that the claims made by MRD were false. She has confirmed her role in the
affair, however has also publicly made a statement of regret and apology on the matter, and has
removed herself from any Alliance until further notice
(Lady Ailith's statement)

> Many people feel that war is not the best way of going about this, and alternatives have been
suggested:
* Cold War
* Further Mediation
* Regulated Arena fights between champions
* Fights between champions
(Collective statement)

> Guybrush Threepwood wonders if Golemus Golemicarum will wait for the results of the Election
before the attack commences
(Guybrush Threepwood's statement)

> The idea of an immediate attack to finish the issue was denied, giving Raven the oportunity to avoid
either assasination or execution IF he looses the war.
(Burn's statement)

> Golemus Golemicarum feels strong enough to finish this war in four minutes with a single warrior,
sooner without lag
(Burn's statement, not yet supported by Yrthilian)

----------

The following is purely conjecture based on what I have read in this topic.
THIS IS NOT NECESSARILY ACCURATE.

First, as Yrthilian and the Golemus Golemicarum alliance has stated outcomes and objectives, while Raven and Loreroot have chosen to only question those statements, my opinions may seem to favour Yrthilian more than Raven. This is not intentional, but a result of Raven's lack of appropriate reaction to the changed situation
[b]>>>>>EDIT: Raveen's position has been clarified, this is reflected in the above statement. He has chosen the noble path, and sacrificed his position to spare war from Loreroot. Raven, I salute you[/b]

Second, Yrthilian's refusal to state further reasons for the war than those listed above shows his refusal to engage in slander to sway peoples opinion. He has chosen the most widely know of the major contributors to the declaration of war to justify it. If Yrthilian went around trying to sway people to his side through slander than he would be a very weak ruler, and fighting for the wrong reasons

Third, Yrthilian's refusal to say who he would accept as Ruler of Loreroot is to prevent a puppet king from being established, something which Rhaegar Targaryen stated would be rejected. To do so would be the mark of a bully, and his "stubborn" refusal to state a prefered Ruler, other than that they not be an 'alt', shows him to want the Loreroot people to have a Ruler who has gained the position fairly

Fourth, the specifics of the election are probably one of the most daming for Loreroot of the entire situation. Raven has staged a coup, which shows how fractured Loreroot is becoming. Not only that, but as there are no other contendors for the election, the result cannot be considered a true representation of the peoples choice. When it is a choice of the lesser of two evils in the voters mind (as is so often the case in "democratic" elections), it is very easy for a poor leader to get in.

Fifth, Raven's failure to post a single reply with any attempt to deal with this decision, or lesson the effect on 'his' citizens, other than to ridicule Yrthilian's declaration, do not show the mark of a strong leader. His followers, notably Lucius Tarquinus Superbus, show an admirable loyalty and regard for their duty, and I have great respect for their decision. Tarquinus's decision to not abandon his duty, even when faced with a battle he knows he cannot win easily, and to fight for a leader who has shown little honour here and has come in in the way he has, has gained him and his followers my eternal respect.
[b]>>>>>EDIT: With his decision to step down, Raven has shown great honour, as well as the very qualities that make a man into a leader. Today, Loreroot has lost a man who may have come to be the greatest leader of it's history. [u]NEVER FORGET THIS DAY[/u][/b]

Sixth, As far as the .Knator Commander. situation goes, WHAT THE H*** IS WRONG WITH YOU?!?

Seventh and finaly, The declaration of a total war was necessary because as citizens of Loreroot, you are obliged to protect and support your leader. As has been stated, he was elected by you, therefor YOU are responsible for the results of this election. How this war turns out is not up to Yrthilian, but solely to the citizens of Golemus Golemicarum, Loreroot, and Raven himself.

Edited April 12, 2009 by Kyphis the Bard

[memory]

As a member of the seekers we remain neutral and have no involvement in this war.

[Tarquinus]

[quote name='Burns' post='28582' date='Apr 10 2009, 04:35 PM']in my humble opinion, there was too much talking up to now and too little action...

don't you see what happend to the Savelites? Take a look at Gridos loyalty, you can't take over an ally with 330 loyalty, he had help from inside ;-)...CoE have kicked all members who are not supporting Raven enough to go to war for him, and see what's left of them...[/quote]
A specious assertion, but spurious in its logic. I dismissed the ranks of the Eclipse to avoid the same fate the Savelites suffered: and I have word that mine action caused the enemy some dismay.

Yet I find it cold comfort. I have become what I beheld and acted as dishonourably as my foes, who have now shewn there were no depth to which they will not sink. Very well for them to say, all were fair in war: but I know better. I am a man, and whatsoever honour I have left after dismissing some of my most loyal followers - including two of my most trusted priestesses - I shall take to my grave. I should not have acted as I did, ruled by fear and love of a symbol.

If any should take the Eclipse and demean it as Grido and his unscrupulous conspirators have done to the Savelites, all shall see that I am unbow'd. If any should carry a battle to Loreroot, all shall see that I am undaunted. [b]I am this land[/b], and it is I: we are one being. Kill me, if you can, for it shall take so much to silence my denunciation of thine aggression, a children's conflict o'er mere words.

Edited April 11, 2009 by Tarquinus

[Grido]

''I have word that mine action caused the enemy some dismay.''
errm, from who? i ask, not expecting an answer on that, but after the Savelites were taken over, I personally expected both CotE and GotR to clean ranks immediately, and that thought was shared with others who were planning, so yeah....dismay....not so much.

''Grido and his unscrupulous conspirators''
hmm nice, i take a defunct alliance and dont dissolve it immediately, and i'm unscrupulous....

and no comment was made about what i'm actually trying to do with it, which i'm sure Tarq knows, yay for one-sidedness.

i'm working to achieve a united and functional church once more.

*drops dead from sleep exhaustion*

EDIT: *pops awake for another second*
due to not wanting to get lynched (by either side), and for total honesty on my part, i am both Golemus AND Lorerootian, dispute my ability to be both what you will, but i am, and thats that

[Logan Marquis]

I speak not for all of Loreroot or the High Council of the Guardians, however, I speak on my behalf and mine only. I support Grido. Many in Loreroot will challenge this decision, and if they do, they should meet with me to learn my reasons.

Loreroot, we should not be so quick to jump to conclusions about Grido or others. I know it's easy to jump to rash conclusions, but he has proven he's not out to destroy the alliance. If you ask me, he is trying to truly rebuild it. Perhaps we might take a moment to think and consider him to actually be attempting to unite something we ourselves could not...

There are bigger concerns that are coming to light. Concerns which mine eyes cannot perceive fully even in this current state.

[Tarquinus]

[quote name='Grido' post='28601' date='Apr 10 2009, 10:00 PM']''I have word that mine action caused the enemy some dismay.''
errm, from who? i ask, not expecting an answer on that, but after the Savelites were taken over, I personally expected both CotE and GotR to clean ranks immediately, and that thought was shared with others who were planning, so yeah....dismay....not so much.[/quote]
My dismissal occurred [b]prior[/b] to thy little stunt, Grido. Thou'rt well pleased with thyself, as I see, so let me disabuse thee: think not that I paid more attention to thee than the dismissive treatment thou didst receive without the Defensive Quarters. By that time, in troth, I had begun to re-invite my followers.

As to thy lack of scruple, Sieur, do not play the carnival fool and pretend thine interference in the Savelites' decline were anything but espionage of the lowest sort, and propaganda as well. Perchance someone believeth thee, somewhere.

[Udgard]

I am sad that this has come to this. A friend in one of the Golemus alliances gave me a good example about this: he says that loreroot is a house with roaches plaguing it. The neighbors are coming to warn the residents about it. That part's good.
But what is happening right now is more than that, the neighbors are threathening to BURN our house because the 'roaches' inside. This is OUR house, and OUR 'pest' (and one that cannot spread to other houses, at that). If people think that a problem inside our house is a valid reason for our neighbors to burn down our house... well, I believe everyone can judge just how right or wrong that is.

[Guybrush Threepwood]

[quote name='Kyphis the Bard' post='28593' date='Apr 10 2009, 07:29 PM']Second, Yrthilian's refusal to state further reasons for the war than those listed above shows his refusal to engage in slander to sway peoples opinion. He has chosen the most widely know of the major contributors to the declaration of war to justify it. If Yrthilian went around trying to sway people to his side through slander than he would be a very weak ruler, and fighting for the wrong reasons[/quote]

Slander is an untruthful oral (spoken) statement about a person that harms the person's reputation or standing in the community. (definition, we'll ignore the oral portion)

Are you meaning to imply that any other reasons that Yrthilian may have are fallacious? I do not personally believe that to be true. Perhaps you didn't actually mean slander, but I do find it difficult to believe that anyone could agree that telling a populace an important truth about their would be king would be a bad thing. Much less could I consider someone believing that killing that populace in war would be better than telling them the truth. While I agree that Yrthilian likely has reason to not make other reasons clear, I certainly hope that this is not it, for it would be foolishness itself.

I do however like your point on the puppet king. It would however be helpful to mention who he would not accept. No one wants this to start all over again.

Edited April 11, 2009 by Guybrush Threepwood

[Calyx of Isis]

[quote]From the [i]Dao De Jin (Tao Te Chig)[/i] Chapter 31, Goddard's first translation.

Even successful arms, among all implements, are unblessed. All men come to detest them. Therefore the one who follows Dao does not rely on them. Arms are of all tools unblessed, they are not the implements of a wise man. Only as a last resort does he use them.

In propitious affairs the place of honor is the left, but in unpropitious affairs we honor the right.

Peace and quietude are esteemed by the wise man, and even when victorious he does not rejoice, because rejoicing over a victory is the same as rejoicing over the killing of men. If he rejoices over killing men, do you think he will ever really master the Empire?

The strong man while at home esteems the left as the place of honor, but when armed for war it is as though he esteems the right hand, the place of less honor. Thus a funeral ceremony is so arranged. The place of a subordinate army officer is also on the left and the place of his superior officer is on the right. The killing of men fills multitudes with sorrow; we lament with tears because of it, and rightly honor the victor as if he was attending a funeral ceremony.[/quote]
The existing king (Yrthilian) attacks a visible target (Raven) for his request to have similar status. He would hold the entire land, every player in the game, hostage to his narrow desire. In the process of attacking someone not an enemy of his land, he creates true enemies, Further he does not even target the right player(s). I once thought Yrthilian wise and temperate. Apparently I was mistaken,

Let us prepare of the funerals required to slake Yrthilian's unquenchable thirst. Let the musicians rehearse the funeral dirge.

Those old enough will remember a fellow who in 1939 said, "oh please, I only want this one tiny little country, you won't hardly notice and it's all I want." Only he wanted another and another and another...

Regardless of Raven's deficiencies, will Raven and Loreroot simply giving in to Yr will truly stop this? And regardless of how the next leaders of Loreroot will be chosen, will they they not still be GG's hostages? Who will Yr target next. He will say none other, but so did that funny little man with the mustache in 1939. When will it be your homeland's leaders that Yr decides to depose? Think what you will of Raven, but examine Yrthilian as closely.

I do not want this war, I have issues with the leaders the land I call home and which I have served, but the more I think of what Yr is doing the more I recall real world lessons. Appeasing bullies is a bad idea. It leads to long periods of appeasement and effective slavery to the bully. The bully wins because no one know what he wants or will attack next.

Edited April 11, 2009 by Calyx of Isis

[Kyphis the Bard]

[quote name='Guybrush Threepwood' post='28607' date='Apr 11 2009, 01:59 PM']Slander is an untruthful oral (spoken) statement about a person that harms the person's reputation or standing in the community. (definition, we'll ignore the oral portion)

Are you meaning to imply that any other reasons that Yrthilian may have are fallacious? I do not personally believe that to be true. Perhaps you didn't actually mean slander, but I do find it difficult to believe that anyone could agree that telling a populace an important truth about their would be king would be a bad thing. Much less could I consider someone believing that killing that populace in war would be better than telling them the truth. While I agree that Yrthilian likely has reason to not make other reasons clear, I certainly hope that this is not it, for it would be foolishness itself.[/quote]

I agree with your definition, and also that slander is not the perfect word for the context, however I find myself unable to find a more appropriate one.

Moving on: The purpose was to state that some of the reasons that he may have for not feeling Raven had the ability to lead Loreroot may have been things that would be bad qualities in a leader, but not necessarily bad qualities in a person or player. Because of the nature of communication, almost anything you say about a person in one context can be twisted to fit a completly different context (ie Raven might loose respect from people who have no real reason to disrespect him, only a percieved one)
I was also pointing out that he uses the main points which everyone can understand, and that the other points may be either extremely complicated, or there may be an extremely large number of seemingly unimportant things that only mean something in the context they occured or from a Rulers perspective.

Everything about this war is about perspective and context.

Thankyou Guybrush Threepwood for your question, if anyone else would like to question or challenge my statement, I will be reading the forumn regularly (PM's on this matter will be IGNORED. All discussion with me will be public)

[Maxim]

[quote name='Yrthilian' post='28535' date='Apr 10 2009, 05:02 AM']My aim is to remove the current leader

You have the right people in your lands that can do the job better
and can organise the land better.

There are other i would not like to see fill that role but that will be a matter for
another time.[/quote]


[quote name='Kyphis the Bard' post='28593' date='Apr 11 2009, 09:29 AM']Third, Yrthilian's refusal to say who he would accept as Ruler of Loreroot is to prevent a puppet king from being established, something which Rhaegar Targaryen stated would be rejected. To do so would be the mark of a bully, and his "stubborn" refusal to state a prefered Ruler, other than that they not be an 'alt', shows him to want the Loreroot people to have a Ruler who has gained the position fairly[/quote]


Yrthilian's also said that there are others that he would not like to see to become the leader of loreroot . And it will be a matter when those he would not like to see DOES become the leader of loreroot . Then it will be war again until a leader that Yrthilian sees fit fills that position . So it might still be a puppet king for Yrthilian might keeps declaring war on loreroot until the person he sees fit became king .

[Burns]

no...
Yrth does not want to see Raven in that position, and there are a few [VERY few] possible successors about whom Yrth is unsure concerning their leader qualities, and he'd like to see one of the good, strong leading figures in LR high chair at this critical point.

just a little side note: what makes you all think we want to get a whole population killed?

there's absolutely no need for attacking civilians, the following statement might sound a bit boastful, but it's true: we have fighters [and not just one of them] on our side who can take out every single lorerootian 'fighter' within 4 minutes, considering that there might be some huge lag during the attacks...
so there is absolutely no need to keep any lorerootian 'civilian' hostage or even kill some of them in order to make Raven step down...

We can do whatever we want to him at this point, and even though he might be young, he knows that much... we have enough willow's experience, don't we, Raven?^^

On late evening of Thursday, there were plans to get into loreroot at once and get done with it, definitely inspired by the guy Calyx was refering to, but Yrth wanted Raven to get enough time to make decisions of his own, that's the only reason why there is still war-talking and no post-war-arrangements...

EDIT: put in 'fighter' and 'civilian', as i found it confusing at a second glance...

Edited April 11, 2009 by Burns

[Akasha]

Hmmm and nobody is thinking: if a king is weak we can't make a treaty with that territory..if there are fights inside the high council and if they are calling their people and the people are not listening why is everyone asking about reasons? How can Golemus have a Treaty of Peace and think at a arm in a bad time from Loreroot since Loreroot is not strong and capable of defending themselves. Stop crying for Loreroot as a victim of a war and start looking at this from a different point of view. Not everyone is bad and every bad has it's good, as light comes only with dark and sun with clouds.

Oh, and pls stop with the nonses of quoting paragraphs like those... or comparing a good and strong king with someone weak to it's desire. Why don't u think that Raven might become weak to it's desire of power that he asked ? Just start looking at all not only from 1 point of view

[cryxus]

I think the ones that Yrth doesnt want in are those with no diplomatic abilities in themselves, that perhaps, oh i dont know... threaten war themselves, like what happened when MRD posted the topic of Closing the Savelites... or that will continue in Raven's Vein, i could list names, but i think it would be wiser not to, although I would feel the same as Yrth on the subject.

I feel no remorse for Loreroot save for a few souls that have shown true remorse over this war, or that have apologised for past transgressions.

Lucius, you know you have my utmost respect in defending your land...

That being said I have my own reasons for being a part in this war.

People of Loreroot I am sorry that I am in the position I am in, but know that i will uphold my word that ~I~ have not, and will not commit piracy this war, although i danced with the idea. Ultimately I realised it would be best to keep my word, unlike a few i can mention...

[Kyphis the Bard]

[quote name='Maxim' post='28615' date='Apr 11 2009, 04:32 PM']Yrthilian's also said that there are others that he would not like to see to become the leader of loreroot . And it will be a matter when those he would not like to see DOES become the leader of loreroot . Then it will be war again until a leader that Yrthilian sees fit fills that position . So it might still be a puppet king for Yrthilian might keeps declaring war on loreroot until the person he sees fit became king .[/quote]
The number he stated was three, as far as how many others he would not accept.

Redardless, I am more interested to hear more from Raven, as all of his statements so far have dealt with nothing.

In a war, if you do nothing but attack your enemy, then very soon you will find yourself surrounded and eliminated.
To win, you MUST have defense, and this analogy also extends to politics.

So far, from Raven, I have seen little evidence that he is making any attempt to deal with this issue. All I have seen is him burying his head in the sand, and while I doubt that thats all hes doing, [u]he needs to tell us otherwise[/u].

Raven's almost silence aside, Lucius Tarquinus Superbus' information has been most helpful, and once again I salute your braver and dedication. You have great honour, and my respect for that.

[Raven]

[center]I seriously don't know how to start this post, how to phrase everything into words that is going on my mind at the moment. Facts that I have been blamed of being power hungry, that I’m being a puppet of King Bull [[i]I’m not going to say any of names but the one stating it should certainly feel like an idiot.[/i]], all those facts are really sad and pathetic. Today I have been also insulted [[i]Quote:”White Reaper: Fu*k you Raven”[/i]] and then I received pm that he hates me. I know quite some people hate me for some or that reason [[i]example: King Bull, Subzeroo etc.][/i]. Burns what you are talking about was expected from King Bull and as well White Reaper I knew they would try and backstab me, I even have chat logs [[i]And there is more, not only one.[/i]]. There are many more but this one is latest and was obviously what will happen. [[i]None of involved in chat gave me this.][/i]

... [/center]

White Reaper: King hats Raven!!!!!!
Burns: atm, BT is not exactly a person we like... you read his post against D? -.-
White Reaper: i will leave if things dont go the way i think they should go
White Reaper: who would you like to see become leader of Loreroot?
White Reaper: Burns??
White Reaper: what do you think?
Burns: hmm... Nelya did a good job back then
White Reaper: yes she did
White Reaper: i have told King that i would leave if Raven is King of Loreroot
Burns: i guess the best leader could be Amoran or Aqune
White Reaper: Raven is a liar
.Ailith.: Greetings
White Reaper: i realy realy hat Raven to
White Reaper: he is not a good leader
Burns: but i'll keep an eye on you for the next days... so no need to watch your back, i'll do that for you *smirks*
White Reaper: are you talking to me?
Burns: hello ailith
Burns: still keeping the peace?^^
White Reaper: cool
Burns: nope, reaper... ice wanted to join us for the upcoming war^^
White Reaper: i realy like you Burns and i would hate to go to war with you because of Raven!
Burns: now, b2t: what does make raven a bad leader in your opinion?
White Reaper: he lies
Burns: i always liked him as a person... and his decisions with the ally were kind of reasonable all along...
White Reaper: in real life i would beat the sh ** out of him
White Reaper: he is a bit*h
Burns: O_o
White Reaper: i have never liked him!!!
Burns: i knew he hasn't made onyl friends with his decisions, and his path of making decisions, but that's kind of shocking XD
White Reaper: and i can git along with anyone
White Reaper: if i was to leave would i be invited into your alliance
White Reaper: Burns
Burns: me... sorry, was distracted
Burns: hmm...
White Reaper: i will never bow down to Raven!
Burns: i can't decide without knowing your stats XD
.Ailith.: You would leave King Bull's alliance?
Burns: even though i know you are not that bad as fighter, i can't just invite you blindly -.-
White Reaper: i think so....but not sure atm
.Ailith.: *nods* these are difficult times
White Reaper: hold on and you can see my stats!
Burns: and then there's the chance of spying and backstabbing involved...
White Reaper: what do you mean ...you can see my stats now
White Reaper: i under stand
Burns: sure, just checked them, they are good
Burns: and i know that you know how to set a rit, so the fighting part won't be any trouble
White Reaper: thank you
White Reaper: you think about this and i will to
Burns: but i guess yrth will be kind of afraid from double-agents these days, so i can't tell if he would or wouldn't approve...
White Reaper: that is all i ask
Burns: sure, just checked them, they are good
Burns: and i know that you know how to set a rit, so the fighting part won't be any trouble
White Reaper: thank you
White Reaper: you think about this and i will to
Burns: but i guess yrth will be kind of afraid from double-agents these days, so i can't tell if he would or wouldn't approve...
White Reaper: that is all i ask
Burns: in times of peace, he wouldn't give a second thought about it, but now... and seeing you are from savels, who are our direct opponents atm...
White Reaper: that is fine all i know is i will never follow Raven
Burns: hmm... i'll keep it in mind, and we'll see how things turn out... if there's a real war starting, i'm quite sure that you can get out of harm's way by leaving the ally, and most likely you will get
Burns: a seat in GG if you want to fight with us, but i guess you wouldn't be invited to the more secret meetings in the first few days ;-)
White Reaper: ok
Burns: oh, btw, sorry for taking archomancer from you, he asked for a seat in our ally a long time ago^^
White Reaper: that is fine every one got kicked out anyway
White Reaper: by Raven
Burns: LOL
White Reaper: and we took it back from him
White Reaper: he was not happy......HAHAHA!!!!
White Reaper: i realy cant experess how much i hate Raven
White Reaper: i would love to have his soul!!!!!!!
Burns: i like to hear that from a Lore-member
White Reaper: i look out for my friends
White Reaper: alliance or not
Burns: a good thing to do... and a thing i should do, too
Burns: i'll check back with the ally meeting, see you later^^
White Reaper: im glad to here that im not the only one who hates him
Burns: oh, better not follow me... unless you want to be mass-attacked and kicked off the island, that is XD
White Reaper: ok sorry again this is happening!!!
Burns: i'll contact you in a few minutes... i guess a public dicussion about your application won't hurt ;-)
Burns: see you later^^
White Reaper: ok thank you!!

Anyway everything started when Nelya started going inactive and along with her activity the activity of others and things that were done feel apart. Guardians were in this state for over two months before I have taken over, even after a bit of time when I was leader everything went a bit slow. I have cleaned alliance of few inactive people and started trying to rebuild alliance and it worked, even if only bit by bit people became a bit more active. Once chat was empty all the time and now it’s full again [[i]Not due to war.[/i]]. People didn’t talked a lot and did not express their opinion but they do now, communication has greatly improved even if there are still some tensions between few players in alliance and not everyone is working as a unit but everyone is aware of the fact that they are part of a unit. Forums became active again [[i]Not the one that Nelya made, but I created a new one[/i]], new suggestions and cooperation improved.

At some point I was asked to try and go for King of Loreroot, and so I did to now known title of Archon that I’m forced to resign from before I even got elected. I know I have support of those that are needed or maybe we shall see differently if Mur shall even bother counting votes and evaluating them after this post I made. Well I putted up a survey in which I asked everyone to tell their opinion on me as a King/Archon of Loreroot and it went quite good even in the public [I know some said no because of their role and I respect that] but I still should have enough of them.

Even Yrthilian would have nothing against me as a leader if I would become Archon [[i]Quote: Yrthilian: “but if you do become archon that is fine. I will still treat you as i do in game. I do respect you and have enjoyed working with you and i will also say you have been so far a good leader”][/i]. But at some point everything changed when MRD on MD forum putted a vote if Savelites should be closed down which in some way got Blackthorn really ticked of and led to quite few problems and eventually an excuse for these actions that are being taken. Before these happened I have taken over Savelites already and have consulted with their active members and none of them was against me/my alt having control as my wish was merely to give them some base to work on and then leave leadership to one of them but then White Reaper and King Bull came into play [[i]I’m not sure on this one but I have enough evidence that I can blame that invite on eigger.[/i]]. Anyway KB and WR [[i]they are friends in real life[/i]] took over alliance and kicked the rest of players that were actually active and kicked them out creating alliance just for their alts and left there to stagnate and after that when it came to this war was given over to GG members / Grido. So then we came to that childish argument between BT and MRD that was reason for war as well as that Yrthilian says there are “others” that wouldn’t like to see me as a leader [I guess those others are GG alliance/yrthilian] but lets move to the secret reason that even I don’t know of but only few does. Even Grido found it out only after almost over one day when war on us or more war on me was declared.

...

Rune: Loreroot is and never will be a province of GG
Rune: if thats what your trying to do
Rune: if you and Yrth are trying to do that
Rune: I can tell you right now that this war is going to do 2 things
Rune: 1. Its going to cause players to leave the game
Rune: and 2. its going to destroy the community
Rune: I'm looking past Loreroot alone now
Rune: i'm seeing all the players who are upset about it
Rune: [name erased] spent an entire night fucking crying about it
Rune: How is that okay/
Rune: ?
Rune: How does that make the game 'fun' or interesting in any way shape or form?
Grido: she spent a night crying about it?
Rune: Yes!
Grido: why?
Rune: Because she knows what will happen!
Rune: She doesn't want to see friends go against eachother
Rune: and she doesn't want to see people leave because of an OOC argument!
Rune: and it isn't just her
Grido: there is more to it that the OOC arguement
Grido: just, it's not public
Rune: It doesn't matter, the fact of the matter is that it STARTED with an ooc argument
Grido: i only just found out, and i'm sworn not totell
Rune: thus it should be worked out OUTSIDE of game
Rune: Then who do I ask?
Rune: Who do I go to?
Grido: no, the argument was the catalyst, not the start
Rune: Point me in a direction Grido
Grido: i cannot say who told me
Rune: I'm not going to see people I care about end up biting at eachother's throats
Grido: but believe me, it would not be good if Raven became king
Rune: I know it probably wouldn't
Rune: He is still my friend
Rune: and I want him to do some good for the alliance
Rune: before he's kicked from it
Rune: When Yrth gets online
Rune: I want to talk to him
Rune: immediately
Grido: it's too late for Raven
Rune: and trying to save the fucking community
Rune: I'm doing that thing that I did to get RPC
Rune: you know
Rune: help MD?
Grido: if Raven goes to jail or steps down, there will be no war, and loreroot will be safe
Rune: How can I trust that when GG is known for holding up a golden penis and saying 'see this? this owns you?'
Rune: if you can't tell i'm pissed about this
Grido: known for it?
Rune: it should not have gone to this extent
Rune: yes.. GG is known to be made up of statfarmers
Rune: and many believe the reputation of stat farmers is to show who's dick is bigger
Rune: and you can kick me for saying that
Rune: I'm just saying what I've observed
Rune: what people have told me
Rune: etc.
Rune: I want to know..
Rune: exactly
Rune: to the T
Rune: what your demands will be if Raven steps down permanently
Grido: *i* will have none
Grido: i cannot speak for Yrth or MRD
Rune: then speak for the GG alliance here
Rune: Ah
Rune: lovely
Rune: and neither of them are online to ask
Grido: no
Grido: i do not know myself
Rune: I would prefer to talk to Yrth
Rune: and I would prefer to talk to MRD
Grido: mm
Grido: as for myself, i just want no king/archon
Rune: We want a council
Grido: go back to a council, without Raven leading it
Rune: who works as a unit
Rune: and knows how to
Grido: yes
Grido: but no king
Rune: everyone on the high council...
Grido: no overuling power
Rune: though we were called by name earlier

I still don’t see any point for me to resign but I’m forced to as Loreroot cannot stand a chance against force of GG since in war could be used only brute power which we don’t have enough especially not against MR’s ; use of magic and roleplay was rejected in war.
And as I can see this only as a bad end not only for Loreroot but everyone, whole community that would get damaged in the process and would greatly turn how game would be oriented even with Mur going for creating factions and I don’t think this would be any close to being good for game.


And then there are also people like this that have been removed out of alliance due to their attitude to others which I think can be clearly seen why. King Bull and Subzeroo also had a conversation regarding me and what they shall do against me soon after I kicked him out of alliance. But that is lesser point now.
[[i]Quote: Subzeroo:
“There should be no one with such huge amount of power, Especialy Raven ... rumors of MD world has it that he can come near Mur's powers ... If this will be alowed ... things will get ugly .... and this has been forseen from mid January 2009”][/i]

Anyway I don’t know what Mur will do regarding votes and what he will do because of me stepping down from position before there will be official election votes public, I might be sent to prison or just left alone tho I doubt that I’m ready to accept consequences of this in means for preventing pointless war and not only save Loreroot but also game community.

If someone still didn’t get the point. I’m stepping down as a leader of Loreroot. [[i]I know that is what you didn’t expect from power hungry and selfish leader right? Or maybe were you wrong?[/i]]

[Kyphis the Bard]

Thankyou for posting your position Raven.
My post on [post="54"]Page 3[/post] has been edited, as has the 'conjecture' statement at the bottom of it.

Edited April 11, 2009 by Kyphis the Bard

[Burns]

we are known to be stat-farmers and showing off with our 'golden penisses'?

*takes a look at GG ally page*

oh well, there's just MB and me stat-farming in our ally...
and in the MRs, there's not that much farming, either XD

the real stat-farmers are spread to all winds these days, and any ally needs some of them for times of wars imo =)

and i like your spies, i was totally sure that nobody else was listening at that point... only idlers and people i trusted so far... so i must assume someone with the show-spell gave it to you :lol:
giving away private chats is not exactly a nice thing to do, but oh well, there were no sensitive infos other than 1. White doesn't like Raven, 2. I didn't know that before, and 3. I was surprised on how dedicated White was about that^^


EDIT: forgot my point because of all that chat-logs...

I hope that this action finishes the war before it starts, and i also hope that you won't be punished in any way... I'd love to see you at willow's again soon =D

Edited April 11, 2009 by Burns

[Raven]

[quote name='Burns' post='28630' date='Apr 11 2009, 10:00 AM']and i like your spies, i was totally sure that nobody else was listening at that point...[/quote]

Burns I didn't ask anyone to spy for me. I recived those logs without asking for them.

[Blackthorn]

Yrth's so called Reasons are all contrived: Made up. GG has been planning to take over LR for some time now, this is just his excuse. as for Grido and MRD, they have chosen to steal their way into the Savelites by using King Bulls login and password without permission. Yrth trying to put his Real Life friend into power here in LR shows his true face, and has nothing to do with Roleplay, but just a grab for Power. One land just isn't enough for Yrth. As for this insult to MRD, well soory about the length but you broughtit up....

Chat log

MRD: btw
MRD: the way i know the alts is ailith told me
MRD: i am saying that savels name ais being trashed
Jon Blackthorn: and what the %#@#$ does she know?
MRD: the log ins
MRD: that king gave her
MRD: when he made them
Jon Blackthorn: bull $%$t
Jon Blackthorn: this is so wrong I can't even begin
MRD: how are they doing what savel created them for at all?
Jon Blackthorn: stan i wrote savels credo
MRD: thats fine.
Jon Blackthorn: do you think I dont know exactly what is going on
MRD: i know what i see and i see his name being tarnished.
Jon Blackthorn: by you
Jon Blackthorn: and this chicken $%*t post
MRD: if savel or one of his followers came back and wanted to rebuiold it i would LOVE to see that happen
Jon Blackthorn: it is being rebuilt
Jon Blackthorn: the alts are there to help others train
Jon Blackthorn: which is the exact purpose of the Savelites
Jon Blackthorn: mine are there too
MRD: why were all of savels followers kicked?
Jon Blackthorn: you want to attack me as well
Jon Blackthorn: because we needed to bring stability back to the alliance
Jon Blackthorn: Raven did it
MRD: i posted facts. you just told me that a bunch of them are not king bulls alts. that is fine. who do i believe?
Jon Blackthorn: not Kingbull
MRD: i am going by what i am told
MRD: and what i see
MRD: that is all
Jon Blackthorn: you are being irresponsible
MRD: to see savels alliance go to shit and be made a laughing stock? i liked savel very much and hate seeing this happen
Jon Blackthorn: and propgating more negativity against a fellow player
Jon Blackthorn: you just want to attack King Bull
MRD: i told cryxus the same thing.
Jon Blackthorn: it is not about
Jon Blackthorn: savel
MRD: i told cryx he did not belong the leader
MRD: happy now?
MRD: cryxus is one of my favorite players
Jon Blackthorn: cryx was never a concern
MRD: SAVEL or ONE of his followers belongs leader
MRD: king bull HATED savel
Jon Blackthorn: says a Golemus player
MRD: i was with savel for a LONG time
MRD: he taught me a LOT
Jon Blackthorn: so was I
Jon Blackthorn: i was there when WE created this alliance
MRD: then why let it go to hell?
Jon Blackthorn: i am not
MRD: instead of players thinking he fleft uncontrollably, they think he left because he gave up
MRD: which is not the case
MRD: and i have stated that to everyone who asked
Jon Blackthorn: we left it alone too long because we wanted him to come back
Jon Blackthorn: then it fell into chaos
Jon Blackthorn: so we chose to offer it to KB
MRD: it fell into chaos when king bull got it
Jon Blackthorn: you dont know what you are talking about
MRD: if it fell into chaos before that it was not public
Jon Blackthorn: yes it was
Jon Blackthorn: that is why Cryx decided to make his little play for it
Jon Blackthorn: and dont think I dont remember you comeing to me to help you throw KB out
MRD: i did
Jon Blackthorn: We ASKED HIM
MRD: and thats fine
Jon Blackthorn: he did not take it
MRD: i stepped out when you stated that
Jon Blackthorn: we gave it to him
Jon Blackthorn: what you wrote is truely offensive to me
Jon Blackthorn: as offensive to me as if someone attacked you in the forums
Jon Blackthorn: or tried to vote the MRs closed
MRD: they can vote us closed
Jon Blackthorn: it is just plain wrong
MRD: see
MRD: thats where i dont care
MRD: we were a alliance BEFORE the alliances
MRD: and were a alliance before we got it and always will be tagor no tag
Jon Blackthorn: you forget who you are speaking to
Jon Blackthorn: i know you better than that
MRD: jon
Jon Blackthorn: you care
MRD: my honest belief is that savel name and legend is being trashed
MRD: honest to god
MRD: and not over KB
MRD: that was just the last straw
MRD: his actions have made me feel that way
Jon Blackthorn: your belief does not give you the right to start a post like that
MRD: he tried to overtake too many alliances
MRD: why not?
Jon Blackthorn: again you are misinformed
MRD: then i am
Jon Blackthorn: why not?
MRD: but when i log into all the alts, and remove them, i will laugh
MRD: i have their passwords already
Jon Blackthorn: have you ever heard of lible or slander
MRD: king bulls alts
MRD: king bulls name is now not mentioned
Jon Blackthorn: then you will spend a long time in jail
MRD: send me to jail then
Jon Blackthorn: and probably lose your RPC status
MRD: ok then
MRD: ill gladly give it up for my beliefs
Jon Blackthorn: and if I know Mur at all he will probably close your alliance
MRD: thats fine
MRD: he can do as he wishes
MRD: and i will gladly accept it
MRD: it is his game after all
MRD: but i have not stated anything in game, all in forums, as a discussion
MRD: if he chooses to do so, then so be it
MRD: i made a post to discuss. im sorry i have a opinion that differs others or is wrong
MRD: before you mentions slander or ban, i removed king bull and the alts part
MRD: now that i have been correctly informed
Jon Blackthorn: i have the original already saved
MRD: ok
MRD: thats fine
MRD: whoopie do i said king bull and his alts were in there
MRD: and that only 2 original savels were still there
MRD: thats what i took out
Jon Blackthorn: you need to appologise and have the post erased
MRD: apologise for what?
Jon Blackthorn: well you offended me, which is not easy to do
Jon Blackthorn: you attacked a player and wrote and encouraged others to write defamitory remarks that have no basis in truth
MRD: i see absoltely no post stating anything other thenonce savel left they were not the same
Jon Blackthorn: and by suggesting that you have the right to decide by vote the closure of an alliance of a land not your own, you attacked us.
MRD: nobody stated a word about king bull or any other leader
Jon Blackthorn: Savelfuser would be absolutely disgusted
MRD: he would be
MRD: his alliance was absolutely great
MRD: probably the best group of followers
Jon Blackthorn: oh really?
MRD: yup
Jon Blackthorn: tell me about it
MRD: and without him they went to nothing. a lot went inactive, not sure reasons but did.
MRD: if i lose rpc i lose rpc
MRD: if i get jailed i get jail
Jon Blackthorn: i dont want that
MRD: i cant change what i wrote
MRD: and honestly, if i changed it it wouldnt be for the right reasons
Jon Blackthorn: no but you can appologise
MRD: i hnestly dont feel they are the same without savel
Jon Blackthorn: nor do I
MRD: i am entitled to my opinion
MRDr: and i have removed king bull and any of that
MRD: nobody has one word of king bull in their posts
MRD: all is directly stated at savel and hhim leaving
Jon Blackthorn: you have still attacked an alliance of lore root
Jon Blackthorn: yes they do
MRD: and the REASON i put the if he returns vote is because i know he has internet issues
Jon Blackthorn: it is more than that
MRD: but i have my opinion and it stands
MRD: jail me
MRD: hate me
MRD: ban me
MRD: i will stand my grounds
Jon Blackthorn: and I pray he is well considering the earthquake
MRD: me too
MRD: he was a good friend and missed dearly
MRD: and i know damn well
MRD: if i were to leave
MRD: i want my alliance gone
MRD: already made that rule
Jon Blackthorn: that is you not Savel
MRD: i have my opinions. plain and simple
Jon Blackthorn: and you forget I ahd a great deal to do with starting this alliance too
MRD: then why did you let it become what it is?
Jon Blackthorn: we wanted Savel to come back
MRD: i have mails from his followers
MRD: over 20 of them, ill have to find them for you
MRD: all begging to join me because savel ABANDONED them
Jon Blackthorn: and did not make any changes until we had to
MRD: they felt so hurt
MRD: i denied most entrance
MRD: but some did move
MRD: and that was beggining january timeframe
MRD: i stood back for a long time
Jon Blackthorn: that is the kind of rumor and babble that ticks me off
MRD: rumour?
MRD: i have 4 of his men with me
Jon Blackthorn: it still stands that Golemus has attacked Loreroot
MRD: no
Jon Blackthorn: yes
MRD: MR's have attacked LR
Jon Blackthorn: not where I sit
MRD: i am not treatied with any others
MRD: we are seperate in all forms
MRD: this is also WHY i did not treeaty with them
MRD: or anyone else
MRD: i do not speak for GG in any way
MRD: i speak on my behalf
MRD: and my behalf only
MRD: you drag them into this its worse then what i said. you are accusing GG of something they did not do.
MRD: GG has nothing to do with us nor us with them
MRD: and i have made that point many many times in the past
Jon Blackthorn: fine.
Jon Blackthorn: i cant believe you think that starting a vote to close anothers alliance is somehow ok
MRD: whats its name?
Jon Blackthorn: ?
MRD: Savelties Church
MRD: correct?
Jon Blackthorn: so
MRD: Where is Savel? and who has been kept as his folllowers?
MRD: how is his name being praised?
MRD: how is his religion being kept alicve?
Jon Blackthorn: you dont even know what his Religion is
Jon Blackthorn: you dont know the first thing about the Savelites
MRD: that is where you are wrong
MRD: OR
MRD: King Bull misinformed me
MRD: i was very civil with KB
MRD: and we discussed it much
MRD: so either i dont know because he told me wrong, or i do know
MRD: he told me where he wanted to form it
MRD: and asked me to ally and lend a hand
Jon Blackthorn: stan, Iwrote the savelite alliance statement
MRD: thats fine
MRD: then the LEADER is wrong
MRD: and so am i
Jon Blackthorn: I helped create the savelite religion
MRD: then you should be leader...
MRD: and not have someone misinforming everyone as leader
Jon Blackthorn: that is not how Loreroot works
Jon Blackthorn: what exactly did he misinform you about
Jon Blackthorn: exactly
MRD: King Bull as leader represents Savelties, like it or not
MRD: he told me training
MRD: atwasps totem
Jon Blackthorn: i do like it
MRD: ok
Jon Blackthorn: not anymore
MRD: he has stated he will be there trying to form it
Jon Blackthorn: it is in stag crossing
MRD: well thats whta HE told me
MRD: he has yet to be seen anywhere in loreroot
MRD: ive checked often to help
Jon Blackthorn: not true
Jon Blackthorn: i spoke to him tonight at stag croosing
MRD: GGG was going to help start it
MRD: tonight
Jon Blackthorn: yes
MRD: yes
MRD: ok
MRD: so already he has misinformed
MRD: do you see MY point in this matter?
Jon Blackthorn: no
MRD: i am going on facts i am told
Jon Blackthorn: of what did he misinform
MRD: am i supposed to not trust anyone?
MRD: where it was
MRD: when it was
Jon Blackthorn: you are going on what others told you
MRD: and his participation
Jon Blackthorn: not facts
MRD: i am sorry i trust others word
MRD: ailith was his wife with access to all his info
MRD: i have no reason to not trust her word
Jon Blackthorn: and she now lothes him
Jon Blackthorn: no reason
Jon Blackthorn: have you ever been around people after a divorce
Jon Blackthorn: ?
MRD: yup
MRD: many times
Jon Blackthorn: no reason
Jon Blackthorn: come on
MRD: im basically divorced
MRD: talk to her every day
Jon Blackthorn: Ailith is not who you think she is
MRD: talk to my ex of 5 years 3 times a week
MRD: then i am misinformed
MRD: i am sorry
MRD: but i still stand on my opinion without savel the alliance is not the same
Jon Blackthorn: there now was that so hard
MRD: change the name, make it loreroot church
Jon Blackthorn: it is not the same
MRD: thats a easy thing
Stan Parker: savel made the savelties what it was
Jon Blackthorn: that does not mean it should close
MRD: then change the name or something
Jon Blackthorn: we do not wish to
MRD: do SOMETHIGN with it, as it is NOW, and has been for 4 months, it is not right
MRD: christmas... since december it has been going wildly
Jon Blackthorn: Loreroot matters are for Loreroot
MRD: i am a player
Jon Blackthorn: yes
MRD: and forums are for discussions
Jon Blackthorn: and my friend
Jon Blackthorn: forums are for discussions but not to vote an alliance closed
MRD: after you threatening to BAN me for a opinion, i do not consider us anything. that was worse then anything i ever stated about king bull or anyone.
MRD: if it was a huge issue, the forum MODS would have removed it when they EDITED it
MRD: i actually sent a coipy to a forum mod first
Jon Blackthorn: which one
MRD: i wont say or you might go after them too
MRD: ill take the heat
Jon Blackthorn: i will anyway
MRD: i wont let others for any reason
MRD: i will gladly leave the game forever and stand by my opinion, savel is gone and his name is being tarnished.
Jon Blackthorn: you have the right to your opinion
Jon Blackthorn: that is not the issue
MRD: my men have been informed if i do get banned to close my alliance, and GGG
Jon Blackthorn: what is GGG?
MRD: i will leave a legend and not let my opinion be changed
MRD: MR's Training Grounds
MRD: We changed the name to GGG to prove it is not for MR's but for everyone
Jon Blackthorn: i did not threaten to ban you
MRD: yes you did
MRD: MRNobody: Jon BlackThorn: then you will spend a long time in jail
MRNobody: send me to jail then
Jon BlackThorn: and probably lose your RPC status
MRD: jail = ban
MRD: i was told that eariler by a LHO
Jon Blackthorn: I pointed out what your actions could lead to
Jon Blackthorn: nothing more
MRD: and a RPC
MRD: jail = ban
Jon Blackthorn: and if you care to look back I said I did not want that to happen
MRD: and i prepare to tell mur i wont change my mindf and ban me if he wishes
MRD: i amde the post
MRD: as a discussion
MRD: i dont have any powers to remove svelties
MRD: only mur does
MRD: and most who actually replied to the post, YIM's me asking if savel quit or lost internet or something
MRD: i told them all he lost internet
MRD: and that helped a lot of players decide
Jon Blackthorn: there is more to it than that
MRD: most actually said, if he quit, they would say leave the alliance as it is
MRD: but since he cant log in because of net, it should be closed upon his return
MRD: i personally understand you helped create it,m but unfortunatley it fdoes not have your name being tarnished, it is savels
MRD: and unfortunately i mean you are active so it would not be the way it is
MRD: not that i wish your name to be tarnished
Jon Blackthorn: it is only your opinion that it is being tarnished
Jon Blackthorn: and exactly how?
MRD: based on what it was and what it is now
Jon Blackthorn: what was it/
MRD: based on the fact that most players actually think savel quit and left his men hanging
MRD: it was a large thriving alliance, where savel was the leader and protector of all his men
MRD: protected them to the death
Jon Blackthorn: really
Jon Blackthorn: I have been in the alliance since day one
Jon Blackthorn: and I am still there
Jon Blackthorn: I know what Savel did
MRD: yup
MRD: i knwo you were
MRD: and YOU should be leader
Jon Blackthorn: and I know exactly what has happened there all along
Jon Blackthorn: i do not wish to be leader
MRD: i said many many times, since noone took over, that a savel follower should be leader and keep his legend alive
MRD: preach about savel
MRD: teach others about who he was and what his wishes were
MRD: tell the stories of the great white ghost
Jon Blackthorn: the quest will teach that
Jon Blackthorn: and we are writing a codex
MRD: king bull has been leader for about a month now, and nothing.
Jon Blackthorn: not true
Jon Blackthorn: you dont know what he is doing
Jon Blackthorn: I do
MRD: then when he spoke to me, about helping, he should have informed me better
MRD: he involved me.
MRD: he approached me
MRD: and he misinformed me then
Jon Blackthorn: he does not speak well for himself
MRD: actually, he still goes on and on about his own alliance
Jon Blackthorn: but his heart is good
MRD: im sure his heart is good
MRD: and that is fine
Jon Blackthorn: he has been wrongly judged
MRD: jon
MRD: you know this
MRD: actions speak louder then words
MRD: and his actions got him his reputation
MRD: but i dont care if it was ME leading them
Jon Blackthorn: and he will turn over the alliance to another when it is stable and the council will allow him to step down
MRD: no matter who it is
MRD: i would feel the same way with how the alliance is now
MRD: it could be anyone as leader.
Jon Blackthorn: he is easily misunderstood
Jon Blackthorn: and his temper has not helped his cause
MRD: im serious too, if it were a MR id still feel the same
MRD: this has NOTHING to do with king bull
MRD: i did tell cryxus he was wrong as leader
MRD: and i DID tell him turn it over to a actual Savel follower
Jon Blackthorn: If I were the leader you would have posted a vote to close the alliance?
MRD: me and cryx did not speak for 2 weeks over it
MRD: no
MRD: you are a folower of savel
MRD: and you would have done more to keep his name and legend alicve
Jon Blackthorn: I am a friend of Savel
MRD: but
Jon Blackthorn: and I am your friend
MRD: if you let it go on as it is now, i would feel the same about you
Jon Blackthorn: And I am KBs friend
MRD: i dont blame you for being KB's friend
MRD: at all
MRD: i LOVE his idea for his own alliance
MRD: i supported it greatly
Jon Blackthorn: i helped with that too
MRD: i told his own followers to stand by his side throught thick and thin
MRD: you moved him backwards by asking him to lead savelties
MRD: a LOT
MRD: he belonged either in encro or on his own
MRD: necro*
MRD: and you AGREED on that too
Jon Blackthorn: yes
MRD: when i first asked to get him out of savelties
MRD: king bull is a VERY good player
Jon Blackthorn: but he is a memebr of Loreroot High council
MRD: and well respected by many, hated by many
Jon Blackthorn: has been all along
MRD: but we all have our enemies
MRD: i am not after KB on this
MRD: i am after savels legend
MRD: and what really sparked me...
MRD: what really got me thinking
MRD: was mur saying about legends in his post about game resets
MRD: savels legend has died immensely over this
MRD: my only goal with this is to save what legend he has left
Jon Blackthorn: I disagree
MRD: either by having one of his followers speak his tales
Jon Blackthorn: but i understand your pint of view
MRD: and do as savel wanted
Jon Blackthorn: but you do not know what is going on
MRD: i spoke to savel for HOURS upon hours over his ides and goals
MRD: and have not seen any of it being carried on
MRD: yes a lot of blame goes to his followers
Jon Blackthorn: you have not seen
MRD: but most of them feel he abandoinded them, not that he has net issues
Jon Blackthorn: does not mean they are not being done
MRD: 4 months tho?
MRD: his legend could have nbeen kept alive, him here or not
MRD: stories of him
Jon Blackthorn: They knew what happened if they cared to read the messages in alliance chat
MRD: have meetings telling his tales
MRD: something
Jon Blackthorn: or log in to Loreroot private chat
MRD: and also
MRD: things done behind the scenes, doesnt help savel any
MRD: public things do
MRD: my training grounds have been going since july
MRD: only in january when i made it a public known thing did it take off
Jon Blackthorn: MRD when was the last time you were in LR?
MRD: today
MRD: few hours ago
MRD: sat there yesterday for about 9 hours
Jon Blackthorn: and before that
MRD: go there every morning about 7 am my time
Jon Blackthorn: because I dont think I have ever seen you there
MRD: have some waffles
Jon Blackthorn: and I am there almost every day
MRD: sage makes some awesome ones
Jon Blackthorn: yeah well that is the problem then
MRD: btw
Jon Blackthorn: you are speaking to the wrong people
MRD: but i go there
MRD: and am civil
MRD: i sit at the oak fort all the time
MRD: pick on idling amoran and logan
MRD: go to wasps a few times a day
Jon Blackthorn: that is what made me so mad about this
MRD: sit and remembermy past
Jon Blackthorn: it is based on misinformation
MRD: that was my office for many months
MRD: i ahve much love for loreroot
MRD: and for savel
Jon Blackthorn: and that has got to stop
MRD: mesavel was my leader and mentor in GG alliance when wodin formed it
MRD: i was one of original 10 in it
MRD: was MP4
MRD: and wodin took me in
Jon Blackthorn: i know
MRD: and savel trained me
Jon Blackthorn: i know
MRD: i care for his legend deeply
Jon Blackthorn: i know me too
MRD: i would absolutely LOVE for him to come back and fix his alliance
Jon Blackthorn: closing his alliance will only say he failed
MRD: or someone who REALLY knew savel to lead it and represent savel
Jon Blackthorn: and that is not what I want
MRD: then have someone who knew savel, really knew him, represent him
MRD: i know loreroot is different
Jon Blackthorn: we are
MRD: but to any player, the leader represents the allince
MRD: even ask mur
Jon Blackthorn: dont care about that
MRD: mur told me over and over, as leader, i repres4ent all my men,
MRD: you dont care
Jon Blackthorn: it always comes back to King bull
MRD: but the other players do care
Jon Blackthorn: too bad
Jon Blackthorn: they are not Loreroot
MRD: king bull did not know savel nor follow him
Jon Blackthorn: that is not important
MRD: nor is he standing at dojo or willows, when he sits there forever, telling any stories
MRD: he says nothing about savel
Jon Blackthorn: he respects the savelites and is doing what the council asked him to do
MRD: he sits there at dojo for hours
MRD: he could tell stories
MRD: explain who savel was
Jon Blackthorn: that is not his way
MRD: anything
Jon Blackthorn: that is mine
MRD: then have him do it
MRD: or do it on bramble
Jon Blackthorn: and as I said we are writing them down
MRD: you know them by heart
MRD: that makes you a ture savel follower
MRD: and my feelings are someone like yourself should represent savelties church
MRD: king bull shouldnt read from a piece of paper
MRD: he should speak from his heart
MRD: as goes ANY leader of the savelties
Jon Blackthorn: not everyone can do that
Jon Blackthorn: people have different talents
MRD: then he is not a leader...
Jon Blackthorn: he is leader
MRD: leaders have to learn to do public speaking
Jon Blackthorn: like Bush
Jon Blackthorn: lol
MRD: LOL
MRD: point proven
MRD:
Jon Blackthorn: he is doing what I asked him to do
Jon Blackthorn: if you have fault with him you can blame me
MRD: im sorry then
MRD: but i stil feel something needs to be done
MRD: and i folow my feelings
MRD: shn me if you will
MRD: ban me
MRD: whatever
Jon Blackthorn: people are tearing the realm apart as fast as I and raven and tarq can build it
MRD: yup
MRD: i agree
Jon Blackthorn: they speak about things they know nothing about
MRD: i am sorry i was badly informed
MRD: and as such i removed the post about alts
MRD: as soon as YOU said she was wrong
Jon Blackthorn: I have been putting out too many fires
MRD: and i am going on your word
Jon Blackthorn: if you want to know what is going on in LR
Jon Blackthorn: ask me or Raven or Tarq
MRD: raven keeps me pretty informed
MRD: daily
Jon Blackthorn: apart from us
Jon Blackthorn: i dont think anyone bothers to actully become informed before they speak
MRD: i tried to my abilities
MRD: i speak to raven often
MRD: tarq on occasion
MRD: you on occasion lately
MRD: and as i said king approached me
MRD: told me he was starting a training area in LR by wasps
MRD: and asked for help
MRD: but
MRD: also
MRD: ive been told for 5 months now LR wanted to start a training area... and nothing yet
MRD: kragel says it
MRD: amoran says t
MRD: king bull says it
MRD: raven says it
MRD: and nothing
MRD: at all
Jon Blackthorn: it is not my function
Jon Blackthorn: only to come up with the ideas
Jon Blackthorn: not put them into practice
MRD: and if they are not carried out what good are they?
Jon Blackthorn: but that is what he is now doing
MRD: they are words on paper
Jon Blackthorn: though he is having a tough time of it
MRD: as i said, actions speak louder then words
MRD: if savels comes back like it was or better, i will completely ask for a post removal
MRD: and IF this post gets things going and sparks a interest, i will never ever regret it
Jon Blackthorn: you called for a vote to remove one of Loreroots alliances
Jon Blackthorn: you are not Loreroot
Jon Blackthorn: it is not your place
Jon Blackthorn: and you did so on the words of people who do not know the first thing about what is going on
Jon Blackthorn: come on stan
Jon Blackthorn: that is in no way right
Stan Parker: then im a $%^**e jon
Jon Blackthorn: no
MRD: no i am
Jon Blackthorn: you mis stepped
MRD: im being a@$$*^#le
MRD: no
Jon Blackthorn: and I have asked you every way I can to undo it
MRD: i ave my opinion
MRD: NOPBODY can delete savelties but mur
Jon Blackthorn: and that is fine
MRD: i have been told time and time again..
MRD: if i have a issue and want to discuss it, post in forums
MRD: im always pointed at forums
MRD: ALWAYS
Jon Blackthorn: a discussion is not a vote to close someone else’s alliance
Jon Blackthorn: not the same
MRD: i put voting for other reasons
MRD: it allows players to speak their opinion without speaking
MRD: that was my goal of that
Jon Blackthorn: as I said you misstepped
MRD: all i know is it is funny i can log into caru, whitereaper (king bulls best friend IRL) and princedarkmagic
MRD: but if you say those arew not his alts, i believe you
MRD: must be coincidence
Jon Blackthorn: no i did not say they were not hs alts
Jon Blackthorn: I said they were there for the pupose of training others
MRD: then me stating that it was him, his alts, you and 2 other loyal savel followers should not have been bad
MRD: it is a honest fact
MRD: princ Rhaegar and tank are loyal men
Jon Blackthorn: no it was a backhanded attack
Jon Blackthorn: and a low thing to do
MRD: all the rest were kicked
Jon Blackthorn: by Cryxus and Raven
MRD: so the real savelties were basically kicked
MRD: the ones who stayed and stuck it out
Jon Blackthorn: that depends on who you are calling the real savelites
MRD: the ones who followed him
Jon Blackthorn: no
MRD: who worshiped him
MRD: the ones savel granted access
Jon Blackthorn: that is not the point of his alliance
Jon Blackthorn: never was
MRD: he was the healer.
MRD: his role
MRD: and what HE told me
MRD: his alliance was formed for players who worshiped him and wanted to show their allegance
MRD: his church was being formed as a sanctuary
MRD: for players to rest and heal themselves
Jon Blackthorn: worshiped in the MP6 sense yes
MRD: savel told me this himself
MRD: im going on his word
MRD: and that his alliance was part of his role as the healer
Jon Blackthorn: then he did not tell you very much
Jon Blackthorn: there is alot more to it than that
MRD: that fine
Jon Blackthorn: but as for who was kicked
Jon Blackthorn: they were not even original memebrs
Jon Blackthorn: but players accepted in after Savel was already gone
MRD: then by all means, i agree with being kicked
MRD: but i asked
Jon Blackthorn: and those who were there but inactive
MRD: many people
MRD: and got no answers
MRD: all i know is what i have SEEN
Jon Blackthorn: you could have asked
Jon Blackthorn: i would have told you
Jon Blackthorn: everyone is so quick to jump to conclusions
MRD: but in my eyes, it will never be the same without savel
Jon Blackthorn: nor with me
Jon Blackthorn: i almost quit when he and nelya left
MRD: LOL
MRD: nelyas name has been TRASHED since raven got that vote thing going
MRD: TRASHED
Jon Blackthorn: no
MRD: everyone says she sucked and abandoned LR
Jon Blackthorn: Mur is just being Mur
MRD: but thats because nobody ever explained
Jon Blackthorn: Raven never demanded anything
MRD: i know why she left
MRD: i know all too well
MRD: same with savel
Jon Blackthorn: so do I
MRD: but that doesnt mean her name is not trashed now because of one decision
Jon Blackthorn: i speak to nelya all of the time
MRD: the decision of someone taking her place
Jon Blackthorn: no one is taking her place
MRD: thats not how it looks to the public
Jon Blackthorn: she left the leadership to Raven
MRD: thats not how it LOOKS
Jon Blackthorn: the public does not know
MRD: and thats a PROBLEM
Jon Blackthorn: not really
Jon Blackthorn: Raven is one of the most respected players in the game
MRD: i know
Jon Blackthorn: we all stand behind him
MRD: but is it fair nelya's legend is ding to improve ravens?
MRD: i supported raven with a 3 page PM to mur
MRD: but i also told mur in that pm
Jon Blackthorn: thaank you for that
MRD: i only agree with raven taking the king title IF nelya has something to remember her by
MRD: a AL log
MRD: a statue or sign
MRD: something
Jon Blackthorn: we have her
Jon Blackthorn: she still comes to the game
MRD: Nelya earned it more then raven, and LR is what it is due to her
Jon Blackthorn: i see her all the time
MRD: and her legend should be represented if raven takes the official and public leadership
Jon Blackthorn: she will stay in the role of high priestess to Root
MRD: i agree 150% with him being the official king or whatever
Jon Blackthorn: that is what she wanted
Jon Blackthorn: Archon
MRD: but she is now known as the leader, raven there or not
Jon Blackthorn: my word
MRD: if he gets the official title, publically known, her legend WILL die, if she keeps her role or not
Jon Blackthorn: all know raven leads
MRD: there needs to be something permenent to remember her and her deeds by
Jon Blackthorn: tarq and KB have sworn fealty
Jon Blackthorn: she is still ingame
Jon Blackthorn: just not RPC anymore
MRD: savel is still in game
Jon Blackthorn: she just hangs with us now
MRD: he was active today as a matter of fact
MRD: but his legend is dying...
Jon Blackthorn: next time you see him tell him to ym me
MRD: ok
Jon Blackthorn: i need to speak with him
Jon Blackthorn: i have been trying for months
MRD: PM him
MRD: he cant YIM
Jon Blackthorn: God I hope he is allright
MRD: he goes to a cafe and logs in on their computer
MRD: and i am serious. my opinion stands.
MRD: i PM'd mur
MRD: asked to be removed from RPC
MRD: so i will then be a normal player
MRD: with a normal opinion
MRD: i also have told MRWander to close my alliance today
MRD: he has started the process already
MRD: so GG wont be dragged into this
MRD: only me
MRD: GGG is being closed once everyone times out
MRD MR's are told to not log in
MRD i am standing my ground jon
MRD: my opinion matters to me
Jon Blackthorn: you dont have to do all that
MRD i am
Jon Blackthorn: your choice
MRD: you tried dragging GG into this, others might as well
Jon Blackthorn: but you are doing it on your own
MRD i dont want other RPC's to be represented in this
Jon Blackthorn: instead of simply appologising
MRD i wont apologise
MRD im not sorry
Jon Blackthorn: you should be
MRD it would be a untruthful and meaningless apology just to shut you up
Jon Blackthorn: and I am sorry you do not see that
MRD and i wont do it
MRD i am sorry you dont respect my opinion. thats all im sorry for
Jon Blackthorn: your choice
Jon Blackthorn: not mine
Jon Blackthorn: i thought you and GG were one alliance
Jon Blackthorn: my mistake
MRD never have been
Jon Blackthorn: my mistake
MRD and i told Raven, i told nelya, i told it in forums
MRD in game
MRD over and over and over
MRD: AND OVER
MRD for 9 months now
MRD ive told everyone
MRD raven i have told a dozen times
Jon Blackthorn: things change
Jon Blackthorn: I thought they had
MRD that has never changed
MRD: and in yrths newest post
MRD: about the treaties
MRD: i stated we are not united
Jon Blackthorn: I made a mistake. Iam sorry
Jon Blackthorn: I am also sorry you have chosen this path
Jon Blackthorn: it is not what i wanted
Jon Blackthorn: far from it
Jon Blackthorn: I wish you would reconsider
MRD i am a man of integrity. i respect myself and my opinions
Jon Blackthorn: as do i
MRD then you undertsand my stance
Jon Blackthorn: but not the way you did this
Jon Blackthorn: not like this
MRD i spoke to akasha
MRD not that it matters now
MRD: but she was supposed to look at it and make her own decision
MRD: i told her if SHE felt is was slander, and showed her the alts part, and that it was wrong, to remove it completely
Jon Blackthorn: so her opinion counts but not anyone elses?
MRD: she is a mod
MRD: cant force her to close it

You want to find fault with me ,go ahead, but I also stand behind my opinion. And if that is not damming enough, I have more. again sorry....

Chat Log

Jon Blackthorn: hey just wanted to let you know I am leaving the game
MRD: dude
MRD: yrth has a bug up his ass over raven not u
MRD: i dropped the whole thing with you and me
MRD: this isnt about you at all
MRD: this is because the HC and LR have issues to work out, mainly with communication
MRD: we got pissed because raven told us he makes all the decisions and HC is only there for him to talk to, not to help him decide anything
MRD: yrth just dropped this war on my plate, didnt say a word to me about it
MRD: not until he already posted
MRD: i feel like shit about it all too but its my job to fight for GG
Jon Blackthorn: and savelites
MRD: yup
MRD: we took them
MRD: we were 5 minutes too late getting to CoE and tarq kicked his men
Jon Blackthorn: by cheating with KBs alts
MRD: LR is next
MRD: NO NO NO
Jon Blackthorn: that is why I am leaving
MRD: they are KB ANDDDDDD ailiths alts
MRD made together
Jon Blackthorn: don't really care about the war
MRD: as children
MRD she has just as much right to them as he does
Jon Blackthorn: that is why she left your alliance
MRD: yup
MRD she left on her own
Jon Blackthorn: because even she knew it was wrong
Jon Blackthorn: after what you felt when dst took your alliance
Jon Blackthorn: I am really shocked by this
MRD lol
Jon Blackthorn: I thought I could trust you
MRD this is war
Jon Blackthorn: fine then you win
Jon Blackthorn: I quit
MRD i have told EVERYONE outside of game, we are friends no game can change that
MRD what happens in game is rutheless
MRD that is part of war
MRD: out of game id really like to remain friends
MRD: btw
MRD: honestly.,
MRD: plans were set to take savies without MR's
MRD: MB was gonna do it and fgrido made the plans
MRD: just so you know
MRD GRIDO talked to ailith about it and GRIDO had MB farm honor
MRD: so even IF i said no, it would have been done anyway
MRD: and you know what, i dont feel bad
MRD: you threatened war first.
Jon Blackthorn: that is not true
MRD its ok for YOU to say it, but we actually do it and we are the bad ones
MRD: great
MRD: i feel bad
MRD but its a game
Jon Blackthorn: I did not threaten war first
MRD: yes you did
MRD: i have the convo jon
Jon Blackthorn: and I have given out the log of the ym
MRD you threatened not only on MR's, but GG as well
Jon Blackthorn: so everyone knows what was said
MRD: whats funny...
MRD im not in this war
MRD: at all
MRD: i just got to hawaii
MRD i dont have time to play this week LOL
MRD what is even BETTER
MRD: mur came to me asking wtf was going on
MRD: i told him you and i had a argument and it had passed
MRD: then yrth called this war bs
Jon Blackthorn: i already know Mur is involved and so is Akasha
MRD: there is not a damn thing i can do about this war
MRD: NOTHING
MRD: yrth called on his own
Jon Blackthorn: i don't really care about the war
Jon Blackthorn: it is a waste of time
MRD: and if you think for one second the savies are gone think again
Jon Blackthorn: but when you used KBs alts to take controll of the savels
MRD: AILITHS ALTS
Jon Blackthorn: that is when you betrayed me
MRD just as much as his
Jon Blackthorn: they are not her alts
MRD: they share them
MRD: as children
MRD: that is what we were told
MRD so blame ailith not us
Jon Blackthorn: she only knew the loggin info because they were together
MRD: she told us they were shared acounts as their children
Jon Blackthorn: and she gave you permission?
MRD: so how are we supposed to know different?
MRD: she did it herself
Jon Blackthorn: i told you the other night
MRD: she logged in and gave the invite
MRD you know what jon, i wanted to let all this shit go. log in play my role and whatever i WONT let you make me feel like shit
MRD: im gettin married in a few hours
MRD: f this game
Jon Blackthorn: we have been trying to build somethingin LR
MRD: f you
MRD: f loreroot
MRD: f the Mr
Jon Blackthorn: now it is useless
MRD LR and the Hc is useless
Jon Blackthorn: the quest is off
MRD: all of MD is useless
Jon Blackthorn: and I am leaving the game
MRD: your useless im useless
MRD: everyone is useless
Jon Blackthorn: congrats on your wedding
Jon Blackthorn: and farewell
MRD: again, out of game you want to talk and be M8's fine by me
MRD i have a role and a job
MRD: plain and simple
MRD: but im off
MRD: time for bed long day tomorrow

and yes I am leaving the game. I have asked repeatedly to speak to Mur, but since he will not respond to me...I might as well say it here. This constant struggle for power in the game has taken all the fun out of it for me. We were trying to build something different in LR, but between the constant bickering between its members and players always trying to power grab it has been too much to deal with. that was why the need for an Archon / leader / whatever.... to silence all the bickering. Yrth and Grido and MRD and MB and Burns, from the sound of it, just want another land to control. They don't like the fact that unlike them we chose a different path in the game. but apparently there is no room in this game for Artists and free thinkers. So I bid you all Farewell. Just call me the first casuallty of your war Yrth. Edited April 16, 2009 by Chewett
Mods or anyone please use the Show hide box. This was a massive post -Chewett

[XinHun]

[quote]First of all, I'm going to make it crystal clear that I will not interfere with the war effort or the fighting. I won't be attacking anyone or anything until this mess is over.

HOWEVER. I will make it known that I think this "war" is completely unnecessary and (from what I gathered to be the cause) childish. You are all acting like children on the playground who started fighting because one kid insulted another. Only...you have bigger and sharper sticks to hit each other with...[/quote]

I totally agree with Saki, but I will also add that the ones that attack the Marble Dale Park, just because it is war WILL feel my wrath

[Akasha]

U know what? i am asking myself why that dojo is in MDP and not in LR with Calyx?

but ths is offtopic and we will stop here