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Re: Honor

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As continuation of [topic="3711"] original topic [/topic] where we can no longer reply I added this topic.
Feel free to merge.

Akasha, I know that you are an old player and maybe you remember the long discussions (on forum) about solutions on honor problems.

So, for those that don't remember or forgot (or I forgot) let's remember:

Solution 1: force players with neg honor not to fight
Result: players will try to lose a lot / patch patched to ask continuation

Solution 2: force balance on all players
Result: 1 one month a new reset is required

Solution 3: players too unbalanced get less stats
Result: inevitable more loses are generated due to fighting system. So more and more players will lose their capability to get stats

Solution 4: each fight will generate a lose and a win so the number will ALWAYS be balanced
Result: a new modification is required to fighting engine

[spoiler] Solution 5: honor farms
Result: I created 2 honor farms that I use to help others regain honor
Side result: some complain for abusing multiple accounts [/spoiler]


The real solution cannot be a simple one (as those listed above). It must be combined.
Anyway, i will await this new change.

@Akasha & others: (don't consider a threat but think at this scenario before giving a solution)
Real life problem:
Action: 20 players attack you
Action result:
- some give you loses they get nothing
- some get wins (few) and you get nothing
- some don't get wins / don't give loses

Experiment result :
- A lot more loses are generated then wins
- the player that gets that many loses will hit and run to TRY to recuperate the loses
- no more players in idle mode
- less the 50 players online at a moment
- no more fun in RP-ing / Dojo-ing as all will get loses and dojo will no longer be secure

:) Please do the experiment if you don't trust me

If anyone finds a perfect solution (that lasts more the 2 weeks), then I bow to him / her.
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this might be just some weirdos idea, but you could change the honor system and make it independent from the balances one has...

i haven't thought this all the way through yet, but you could base the honor system on players stats (therefore showing the real strenght of a player, which was the intention of the honor system as far as i got it back then), like...giving them points for their stats, idk, maybe summing up all stats a player has, or maybe giving them a certain weight [like, attack counts stronger and gets multiplied by 1.3 before adding up, trade sense is less important and gets multiplied by 0.4 before being added to the result]...

and then, you get honor from every player who has more points than you have, and neg honor from every player that has less points than you...

positive effects:
-honor rewards show a players real strenght
-no more honor troubles for the normal player, you'll almost always find a grinder who will give you a win or two
-grinders get a heavy punishment, the strongest players will get into knee-deep honor troubles
-young players could easily catch up with insnae extra xp and stats from high-honor-rewards

negative effects:
-grinding gets not only disencouraged, but straightout impossible from a certain point onwards, and that will set limits on the warrior-players in their role-development

just my opinion on that stuff

[edit: edited in one more pro^^]

Edited by Burns
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One question Burns: do it think that I, for example, will let players defeat me in this case? :P I will just put strong defenses. This way (if the same system of losing honor is applied - only the winner gets/loses honor and the loser loses a small amount of honor) I will keep my honor and gain stats. Also there will be no more idlers (or at least not strong players) cause they need to keep an eye on the rituals.

Not to mention that I can do another thing: just help someone (or several players) reach my stats then we will form some sort of a alliance/guild whatever you want to call it and we'll just play among ourselves :).

Anyhow...this are just some random thoughts regarding the subject. I will post more as they spawn. :)

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1. as i've said, i haven't thought it all the way through XD

2. I guess that dummy-defences are not the way this game is meant to be played anyway...

we are just doing it wrong atm because we tried to reach your stats with high-honors =P

that would change greatly if you could actually gain something for having proper defs up, atm i gain more for losing a incoming fight than for winning it...

Edited by Burns
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Why reach my stats? This is a RP game :P (or at least this is what it is wanted). I gain stats cause I am bored. I don't like RP-ing (or not the kind of RP-ing this game provides). I can do 2 things: gain stats and solve quests. Lately the number of good (also new) quests has decreases dramatically. So...what can I do? I know: stop playing (which I am currently doing). I log in, vote for the free credits although I have a good amount of unused credits, chat a bit and I think that's it... I found myself more playing in the forum then in the game.
What can I say? Maybe this is the beginning of the end for me since I have nothing else to do here.

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what is honor in this game? it is meant to be balancing limitation, but it never worked in that way. why? becoz player with more losses doesnt means he is weaker, losses are gathered a way too easy, so in here i have 2 solutions

1)get everyone balanced and give all mp levels same rules of fighting like mp3 has in that way every fight gives you a sheath/sword balance, or in other words EVERY battle affects your balance ratio
2)disable honor system

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I am perfectly balanced. And I atack only Pamplemousse who's giving me ZERO honnor. The rest are negative or hiding 3 days since. I am loosing honor when I loose my temper and atack somebody or& anybody... So I am getting down again!

Ingame integrated quest! With honour bonus? Naah this is stupid, and introducing "permanent honour" is kinda complicated.
Example: when solving the broken pattern gazebo (or just having max honor for 10 days in a row)
I get "+1000 permanent honour" which means my honour can grow from 6000 to -500.
More experienced players can propose better and more realistic numbers than me.

Reset the honor system; Let the honour express my dayly ballance during the play:
As the points at head contest: 4 times a day if you are online and ballanced (or close to ballance) you get honour+ (1000/960 sword/sheath means to an MP5 honour +[color="#FF0000"]200[/color]-40=+160 honor gain)
if you are far unballanced you loose honor (700/1000 sword/sheath means you get [color="#FF0000"]200[/color]-300=-100 honor lost)
If you are not online you do not get nothing
in fight keep the actual honor reward & see what's hapening.

[spoiler]there is another way/bug: Go to golemus and use the empty aramors; They give you so easy everything you need honor+victory(no matter%)+xp+status
another way is atacking only mp2...(get a burst in minutes!) (now you can do it at 'Equilibrum' Gazebo) [/spoiler]

But god damnit I gain honor and I am ashame to share how!!!!
Or colect loses to get some honor! is that honorable?

please do something!
"what is honor in this game?[/b] It was ment to be..."

LIBerty put the main question. THAT is the start point!

Edited by GgSeverin
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  • Root Admin

honor was ment to be something to grow if winning against players than win more than you do and drop if beating up players that are allready losing. That is honorable. What is not honorable anymore and turned into something else, is how fights are used to manipulate honor. The name honor is kept currently for "tradition" mostly, to avoid confusion renaming it everywhere.

At some point won and lost fights got renamed too , since lost fights are not as bad as it sounds.

I am still hoping that the "honor" system can be adjusted to work better, i defenetly don't want to remove it, but i admit is not as i wished it to be.

its mainly a thing about mood..my mood unfortunatly ..when i feel like fighting and competing i do things like head contest and torch competition, when i feel otherwise i do things like items, honor adjustments and so on. Right now i am in a fighting mood so i will be working on such things .. at some point i will calm down and try to improve the honor system, the battle log, loyalty system, and take it easyer on the fancy experimental features *cough*tokens*cough*

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Well, my 2 cents:

Don't give wins/exp for attacking people for over 100 (just a number there) negative honour. And reset everyone back to balanced (one time only). You can still farm (massive amounts of)losses but only by attacking This is a pain so it's far more profitable then to stay balanced.

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[quote name='lightsage' post='29573' date='Apr 28 2009, 10:46 AM']Well, my 2 cents:

Don't give wins/exp for attacking people for over 100 (just a number there) negative honour. And reset everyone back to balanced (one time only). You can still farm (massive amounts of)losses but only by attacking This is a pain so it's far more profitable then to stay balanced.[/quote]

Lightsage, you missed the point, completely.
Actually ... what you said is the other way around:

- when the defender gives you over 100 positive / neg honor
---> don't give loses to defender
---> don't give wins or exp to attacker (don't leave the wins for creatures) if the defender gives neg honor
---> give neg honor either way (wins / loses) to attacker if the defender gives neg honor
---> leave the rest the same (exp / neg exp to both if the case, honor to defender if winning, ...)

- getting loses will be difficult (as light said, just by attacking)
- the world will be more balanced
- the ones that are now very unbalanced ... will remain like that because they have this advantage

Note: I added the "positive honor" because it is very difficult to get a lot of wins and stay balanced

I hope I didn't wrote something wrong when I compacted the 2 branches (- and + honor)

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