The exact price of 1 silver coin

[Metal Bunny]

I had been thinking. I wanted to know what other people thought was the value of 1 MDS, or MagicDuel Silver.
Is equal to a dollar? Or higher than it?
If you pick options 6 or 7, please state what you think is the price in your mind and why.
Others are of course still welcome to write what they think the price is approximately and why.

The main reason for this topic is fair trade.

For those who don't know. > means bigger than, so 1MDS is worth more than 5 dollars. And < is the opposite, meaning 1MDS is worth less than 1 dollar.

Edited April 27, 2009 by Metal Bunny

[Akasha]

1 MDS has more valuable then 1 $ because you spend more $ in order to reach it. An accurate calculation would be to count the number of items required to get to the items that give coins, including those and then divide them to the number of coins you can get them? :pardon:

[No one]

1MDS<1$
Because the Silver' value has already been taken by the player that first received it

Also, I consider it as token of appreciation, so, it has a symbolic value and if we don't have an infinite value, the it is 0 (or as close to it as possible)

[Gauge]

[quote name='Metal Bunny' post='29498' date='Apr 27 2009, 06:52 AM']I had been thinking. I wanted to know what other people thought was the value of 1 MDS, or MagicDuel Silver.
Is equal to a dollar? Or higher than it?
If you pick options 6 or 7, please state what you think is the price in your mind and why.
Others are of course still welcome to write what they think the price is approximately and why.

The main reason for this topic is fair trade.

For those who don't know. > means bigger than, so 1MDS is worth more than 5 dollars. And < is the opposite, meaning 1MDS is worth less than 1 dollar.[/quote]


I personally think its worth right at or around a dollar. The reason for this being that it costs a dollar to unlock the silver coins for the valuable metal orbs and toxic potion now. Had Mur not implemented this, I'd have said it was worth two dollars, just for the trouble you have to go through unlocking them in the shop or questing for em.


- Gauge

[Metal Bunny]

Let me tell you all something, if you buy everything empty in the permanent boosters section, you get 40 silver coins.
It's how MRD got so many. I think it was Shady Jester who told me this.
What does this do for the value of the silver coin now?

Also, it is for me, as an economical student, extremely interesting how the value in your minds differ so very much and why.

Edited April 27, 2009 by Metal Bunny

[Guybrush Threepwood]

I really can't label a value for them. All they are good for is currency, and nothing else. The value depends on what everyone considers the value to be. If everyone thinks it's 0, it is 0. If everyone thinks it's 2k, it is 2k. And Akasha, I don't think it's appropriate to figure out what it takes to get to them in the shop and divide it up. That would be true if the things you got leading up to it were worthless, but as it is, they are worth buying whether you get the coin or not.

[Akasha]

No one, now you have a hobby in contradict me? what do you mean by the first who took it? Silver coins are in MD Shop, and the first coin you get is when u take the first item that gives you a coin. So no first Silver taken .

You should really consider the actual price of the coin. It is more then 1$, even if you can get 1 coin at 1$. Not all the items give coins.

[b]EDIT : [/b]To Guy, the value of an object is given by it's rarity and the rarity is given by how hard you can get it, not necessary how much you pay on it. So the value of the coins is actually given on how many paying players bring them out of the Shop.

[Metal Bunny]

People should also take into account what the Silver can actually do for them.
Can it buy you creatures, creatures who have tokens? What kind of roleplay items could I buy with it.
These things raise the value of a silver coin, whereas the amount one can get for a certain amount of dollars in the MDshop, along with the obvious bonusses you get by buying the stuff in front of it, lower it.

[Guybrush Threepwood]

If I bought a Speed boat for a dollar, and someone gave me a shiny token with it, I wouldn't consider the token worth a dollar. If I had to pay 100$ to get one shiny token and I also got a speedboat, a Ferrari, a house, my own fast food chain and a mansion, I wouldn't consider the shiny token worth 100$ either.

[Akasha]

The items in the Shop have the same dollar value but a different actual value. In the case of the Silver Coins that value is indeed given by what you can do with it.

[Guybrush Threepwood]

The issue here is just supply and complete lack of demand. How many coins are out there? Then of course, all you can get with coins are creatures from other people and items. In order for a person to trade an item for coins, or creature for coins, a person has to believe that they will be able to then gain something else, of equal value for those coins. As it is, it is much easier to just barter. There are too few items that people are willing to part with, and too few people in general. I really don't think the coins are worth much of anything.

EDIT: After saying that the issue is entirely supply, I went on to say why I didn't think it matter. So I changed the first sentence.

Edited April 27, 2009 by Guybrush Threepwood

[Metal Bunny]

Ah but Guybrush, if I told you, you could get another bloodpact archer for 5 silver coins. And for 10 coins a bloodpact archer with a creature token.
As it has almost no value for you at all, you would, in theory, be willing to give all your silver coins for it, let's say 100.
But you wouldn't. Because someone asked a [i]mere[/i] 10 silver coins.

Everything is worth, what it's purchaser will pay for it.
-some roman dude I had to learn at school and university during economy, latin and marketing-

If people are willing to become your adept, if you gave them 1 silver coin. Or later on perhaps a worshipper or some such things. [i]Surely[/i] the value of 1 MDS would grow in your opinion, no?

**edit**
You said lack of demand, I say that's not true. Merely that the market itself needs time to grow. For instance, I witnessed a trade between 2 people the other day, silver coins for an item. As well as a trade between 2 others 2 weeks ago. Where 1 premium creature was traded for another premium creature and silver coins to compensate for the difference between the 2 premium creatures.

**edit nr.2**
Just now, someone asked me to trade silver coins for my small skinny man statue. While I said that it was not for sale, I did say my carrot was for sale. Silver coins have value, no matter what you think.

Edited April 27, 2009 by Metal Bunny

[Guybrush Threepwood]

Of course it would, I just don't think people will go for it. In order for coins to have a set reasonable value there has to be something that people can get for them. People judge the dollar (or any currency) by gas, by bread, by milk. There is no simple basic thing that can be bought for silver coins. In order to establish a sustainable market for the coins a relative base level of coins would have to be reached and everyone would have to agree on a price. I just think it's too easy to set up trades directly for what you want rather than using these coins as a medium. There just aren't enough people and items. If we really wanted to set a market for the coins RPCs could offer something for the coins, and then offer coins for completion of quests. After all it is the circulation of currency that determines the strength of the market. If coins are rewarded for quests and they are made from nothing, it'll screw everything up. RPCs need to gain the existing coins in order to reward people with them in quests. This would of course require RPCs to offer something for them.

Anywho, my wheels are just spinning, but it's 8:36 am here and I haven't gone to sleep yet, so if I'm not terribly coherent, that's why.

Edit: That last bit's not really an example. That's someone attempting to give there coins for something else. I just don't see it growing on people. Sure, some people give them value, but everyone, or at least a good portion of people, need to give it value. Ideally the same value. Maybe it will grow in time, but right now I wouldn't be my silver coins on silver coins becoming currency without some change.

Edited April 27, 2009 by Guybrush Threepwood

[No one]

[quote name='Akasha' post='29504' date='Apr 27 2009, 01:16 PM']No one, now you have a hobby in contradict me? what do you mean by the first who took it? Silver coins are in MD Shop, and the first coin you get is when u take the first item that gives you a coin. So no first Silver taken .

You should really consider the actual price of the coin. It is more then 1$, even if you can get 1 coin at 1$. Not all the items give coins.

[b]EDIT : [/b]To Guy, the value of an object is given by it's rarity and the rarity is given by how hard you can get it, not necessary how much you pay on it. So the value of the coins is actually given on how many paying players bring them out of the Shop.[/quote]


Sorry, when I wrote the reply it was supposed to be the first reply ( no intention to contradict you , this is just my opinion )

So, when you get an item (that gives you attack or def) you receive also (as BONUS) a coin. That coin is BONUS from my point of view. So, a bonus or a gift has only the value that you (as the one that receives it) give to it.

I, as collector, give more value to some items the most of you (rest of the world) and less to others. It is the way the world is.

So, if I have to explain the "sentimental value" / "gift value" then i'll quote myself:

[quote]... I consider it as token of appreciation, so, it has a symbolic value and if we don't have an infinite value, the it is 0 (or as close to it as possible)[/quote]

[Kriskah Arcanu]

As a merchant I am uncapable to determine the exact price on an MDS.

My references are nothing but the Items witch are for some people priceless colletibles objects.
I do recognize people are starting to trade items a bit more, but i still I agree with Kafuuka: "Currently items are artifacts, not expendable trade goods".

I might change my mind after the fair. But for now all I can say is that a MDS may have no currency value when you want to buy a selected item, but also quite valuable for people with no items at all.
I couldnt compare this currency to any type of real currency, I believe we are too far from recreating a local economy yet. Hope this will change in time.

Edited April 27, 2009 by Kriskah Arcanu

[Muratus del Mur]

Silver coins are not ment to be the base of a stable and functional economy. They are a "tool" but also a "reason" for trading. Their value is determined by their rarity and its constantly dropping because if inflation. More and more coins get in play from mdshop so "prices" defined by coins will grow because more players will have more coins. Some items can't be traded directly because that player has no use of the offered item, but they can be traded for coins as a general currency and those coins traded for the desired items, like a buffer of value.

Coins, silver and GOLD (yeah, upcomming) are controlled by money and they unballance the game in favor of thoes paying. The counterballance for the coins are the items that are distributed to players regardless of their paying status. A market is a good initiative even if its hard to function as one now, in time it will be more easy and the market could act as an intermediary for item purchases and since the market itself has no interes in specific items, the coins will be ideal for that.

From time to time items will be given out to random players found online to increase coin value and lower inflation and support trading.

Something more, the items can be configured to have influence on the owner, very powerful influences much more than weapons but that wont happen too soon until the trading stabilizez and there will be enough items on the market to avoid encouraging players to hold on to them and not trade even more than its now.

Now with the tokens, goods have a new variatey, the enhanced creatures. One big risk is that trading will be limited to paying member with little chance for regular ones to get anything, thats actualy happening to some level, but thats why distribution of items will be better controlled and most powerfull items will be given for wishpoints.

I think best way to trade items or creatures is auction, annoucned in time and well organised.

[Shadowseeker]

If you ask me my estimation lies at around..5 MDS for 1$, if not less. The biggest problem is some recognize it, some not, but a lot of people get lots.

[Liberty4life]

in my opinion about this mds and dollar, well lets see, you need some credits to unlock coin, then you need 1 more credit to buy coin, with one coin goes stats, they can have higher or lower value towards coin depending on how much stats you have, so lets say it cuts, value of coin by half since you pay 1 cred for stats and coin, then lets see how can it be converted, can you get 1 silver with 1 dollar, you cant, can you get 1 silver with 1 credit, in a way yes (taken in consideration bonus credits when purchasing and cost until silver is unlocked), so we now actually have that 1 dollar can be converted into 1 silver, but 2 markets are used for currency exchange, next question, can you get 1 dollar with 1 silver, you cant, can you get 1 credit with 1 silver, you cant, that means silver isnt convertible from this point of view that makes coins nonconvertible, this question of this topic is stupid from my point of view its like you asked god, dude i dont have pure soul but hey i have millions of dollar, so can you let me in heaven

so to conclude this i will say same thing as mastercard says on theirs commercials: priceless

[Kragel]

LOL ok everyone who thinks the MDS is worth less than a dollar or only a dollar you owe me more coins cause i was doing it with a rate of MDS =2 creds


lol anyway yes this is a good topic and im sure it will go up and down some as needed in value according to demand


My 2c
Kragel
The Metal Mage

[Burns]

to me, silver coins are useless and therefore worthless at this point...

i don't need to buy any creatures, and i don't WANT to buy rarities as i'm more the emotional collector, when i finally have a drachorn or nice items to watch on my page, i want to remember the fun of getting it, and not how much silver i invested...

though i think that this game needs supporters and that these supporters should have advantages, i don't think that items, rare creatures and, in the long run, inner magic documents or WP should be bought or even subject to trades that concern silver coins, that's not appropriate imo :/

[Metal Bunny]

Don't worry, we RPC's are not allowed to sell our WP or inner magic docs for any price except by merit in the quests we are giving.

[Watcher]

[quote name='Metal Bunny' post='30066' date='May 3 2009, 10:47 AM']Don't worry, we RPC's are not allowed to sell our WP or inner magic docs for any price except by merit in the quests we are giving.[/quote]
There is one RPC who did not recieve that memo, as he has been "trading" his inner magic document for items.

Edited May 3, 2009 by Watcher

[Metal Bunny]

Eh? Which RPC is that?

[awiiya]

Here is my opinion on silver:

For now, it should be absolutely useless, but isn't. However, that could change very quickly.

Economies work like this: There is a valued commodity, one that people want. In order to trade this commodity, they use a representation of wealth, something that can eventually be turned in for money. Using a RL example, for the first centuries of paper money, it was ALWAYS backed by gold or silver, so that if someone wanted, they could trade in their paper money at any time and get equal value in gold. Nowadays that is not true, and I think because of it our economy could collapse at any moment, but that's a conversation for another time.

The problem with MD's economy in my opinion, and the reason that silver prices will fluctuate, is that there is no backing to the Silver. Their value is purely symbolic, and as a result... their worth is determined by the population. If we as a group decide silver is worthless, it will be worthless.

A solution you ask? Just something interesting to think about, what if you could trade silver back for credits? This is interesting because then you could pay just one MD credit instead of the gift of 5 or 20 all at once. This would back the silver, and then silver would ALWAYS be worth 1 MD credit.

Of course, I doubt this will happen, because Mur is probably curious to see how we treat silver, and how we value something that is only purely symbolic, which to be honest, I am curious about as well.

Awi

[Treehill]

I just jumped every post...was bored to read all but the value of of something only exists if there is a counter-part....im talking about economic blocks,you can only predict how much is your currency if you have someone else to relate....lets say a city can produce coffee but not fish soo fish is high priced in that city and in another one is the oposite,so the values would be:

City A City B
Fish 3 1
Coffee 1 3

If we put another city then:

everything would go to 2


Why all of this?Well we dont have an actual use for them like in an economy it would be needed % from the market,like buying a ruby would need 18 silvers,6 as % for the bank and the other 12 for the prosuct itself....then the bank should make loan this money and make even more % for him...this is the only way to make an stable economy...well if the loaners pay their bill.....if not HELLLOOOOO USAAAAA XD

P.S.: <<Editted/Added: We could make too each land have his own economy and itens,getting wood would be easier in loreroot than in GG,and salt would be easier on gg and soo on,this would give a starting economy.

Edited May 6, 2009 by Treehill