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Mur mentioned previously an idea of changing the a person's way of fighting based on one's stats. He mentioned the possibility of a person who gets 100 into Regen becoming a healer for example. (I for one am a huge fan of the idea, especially of a healer). I'm sure that this is simply an example, but I thought it may be fun to attempt to brainstorm some abilities a person might have for a class and what classes it would be connected.

One thing that I would especially like to focus on is HOW this might be implemented and different ways people will attempt to abuse the system. Currently Mur is the only one working on the code for this game and that means things take a while longer, though it keeps things more consistent. Fixing things often takes longer than simply having it work properly the first time. If we can foresee issues with issues that might be, it would save Mur some effort. Of course currently how this would be implemented and exactly what it would do is all conjecture.

I'll throw out a couple of ideas.

First, I would suggest that a player's "class" not be based off of a if stat>x value case. This would mean that players such as MRD would simply be every class. This isn't inherently an issue, but I like the idea of specialization this sort of chucks it out the window. I enjoy the idea that I have to sacrifice being able to do one thing in order to do another. I would suggest that instead a player's "class" be based off of a ratio, ie: xstat/totalstats>some value, or be based off of a highest stat. Of course some stats are considerably more difficult to gain than others, and perhaps something like power would have a 5 times multiplier before consideration.

An idea for a possible ability of a person who has a warrior "class" (based from attack) is:
Unrelenting Assault-Your next attack will ignore the normal cool down required between attacks on the same individual. This could have a number of times that it would be doable per day or a cost for using, such as Ap or something of the sort.

This of course would allow you to attack with a self destructing ritual to test the opponents ritual and make an informed decision on how to attack.

EDIT: I forgot to mention something that may be exploited. People may switch classes back and forth in order to refresh ability cooldowns.

Edited by Guybrush Threepwood
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i think that the whole system needs to be dynamic. period

you can base it on a stat/cumulated stats system, which we could easily work out within a day, but you NEED it dynamic, else roles will get static and that's exactly what we don't want for a long-lasting game...

that is to say, a warrior should be able to rise his healing abilities by raising his regen or power, and losing his warrior abilities on the way

the huge problem i see there: you don't jsut raise a stat as you please, you get more attack than other stats in the system...
we'd need a system that makes it possible to 'switch off' stat gains that you don't want, and that wouldn't go along that good with creating a balanced profile :/

imo, the system can't work in the classes way you are suggesting, Guy, and it would be rather interesting to have it implemented as illusion-like system, giving you more and stronger spells for higher stats [i guess you can see the high-stat-player talking there^^] which can be switched on and off about two times a day or such, with half an hour cooldown before you can switch again...

obviously, that gives an advantage to grinders, but stats raise in time without heavy grinding, too...

Edited by Burns
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Just ratios wouldn't work, imagen all the MP3's just out of storymode, with for example, more init then attack. They'd enter the class and immediately have all it's advantages? You need to have a certain ratio (the more "unbalanced" it is the higher the stats you can unlock) in order to be able to have certain abilities but ALSO a certain amount of stat for the higher abilities. This way you can also be part of multiple classes, only having the lower abilities in each.

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It'd be nice if you would explain how it is that it couldn't work the way I've explained it. You are correct that attack is the easiest to gain Burns, and I gave a rather simple solution for that, certain stats count for more. In the idea of class being based on ratio a healer might have regen/totalstats>.01. Where as a warrior would find himself with something more like attack/totalstats>.2. I don't understand exactly how easy it is to get each sort of stat, so these of course are just examples. And no Burns, a person wouldn't have to turn off certain stat gains, they would simply have to focus on certain stats. This would have to be done through sacrificing of course, as that is currently the only way to "choose" the stats you gain. I also agree that the system should be relatively dynamic, but any system at all at this point would be more dynamic than the one we have. Certainly the abilities an individual gets could be based off of stats, they could just as easily be based off of how long one has spent as that particular class. A person could also gain a new stat from battles, perhaps ability experience, and this would allow them to level their abilities. There are a lot of options, and I think perhaps an ideal way to keep it dynamic would be to have forks to the ability tree. Sure, this has been done, but it's worked too. This way each person can have a unique build.

EDIT: At Lightsage

I agree that a MP3 straight out of the story shouldn't immediately get all the advantages, but doing it in the way in which you described would have MRD as the most powerful warrior/wizard/healer in all of magic duel. This is just plain silly. As I mentioned previously in this post, there is no need for the power of abilities, or the number of abilities unlocked to be related to the amount of a particular stat. The class itself would be chose by the ratio, but abilities could just as well be decided by some form of experience (preferably one not tied to actual experience as people can, and in fact want, to lower that). Another possibility is that regen/totalstats>.01=healer and healer abilities are based off of regen. This way everyone is still just one class, but abilities are still based off of stats. The major difficulty I would see for basing it off of a ratio is that people who already have a great deal of stats would have difficulty in changing their ratios.

Edited by Guybrush Threepwood
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You cannot gain all stats through sacrificing (at least not with the current system anyway). Only 5 stats are gain from saccing and 2 of them are really really low (under 10 points when you sac a crit with enough wins).

And you cannot raise only certain stats (except attack). You get certain combinations based on the damage you do and other variables. And it doesn't depend only on you but on your opponent as well.

Right now i don't see how this can be implemented without a major change of the way the stats are gained.

As for MRD he has attack and def but the other stats are low. So he would be probably a warrior not healer, wizard.

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you didn't get the point i was making...
oh well, i might have failed to make myself clear^^

i think that staying in a class forever is NOT what a person might want, i would definitely get bored after a few weeks...
static roles are useless for this game, you ened to keep it developing and changing and maybe growing, and coming into one class to be stuck there forever to get more powers in that class doesn't fit with that changing part...

your system, no matter which, would make any major changes in one's roleplay impossible, i couldn't ever get a decent fighter if i want to have healing abilities, and the other way round...

and all of them are useful...

this game is different from diablo and WOW and whatever skill-trees you are thinking of, you don't focus on killing or healing in here, you need to develop your skills in all areas to keep moving, and those who rest rust...

see what happend to Savel, Simply, Big C, Wodin, phrog... if you get stuck in a role and can't get out of it, you get bored and leave, because (unlike WOW and diablo) there are no things you can gain forever...
there comes a point when you have all you want in MD, and if you can't go back and do something else when this point comes, or if that going back is connected to too much loss, you'll get another game...
i fought my way up for over 250 days before seeing that i was done and reached all i can reach in that part, and was on the edge of quitting before i realized that there are ways of changing what i am, that i don't NEED to keep on fighting boring combats that don't even last long enough to have the pics loaded before they are over...

this game lives from constant changes, like villian dst who changed to the nice former-reseacher girlie, King Raven who left loreroot to do some illusions finally etc.etc.

else most people would quit sooner or later, after a year of doing the same things and walking the same paths day by day you jsut get bored because there's nothing left to see...

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[quote]I agree that a MP3 straight out of the story shouldn't immediately get all the advantages, but doing it in the way in which you described would have MRD as the most powerful warrior/wizard/healer in all of magic duel. This is just plain silly. As I mentioned previously in this post, there is no need for the power of abilities, or the number of abilities unlocked to be related to the amount of a particular stat. The class itself would be chose by the ratio, but abilities could just as well be decided by some form of experience (preferably one not tied to actual experience as people can, and in fact want, to lower that). Another possibility is that regen/totalstats>.01=healer and healer abilities are based off of regen. This way everyone is still just one class, but abilities are still based off of stats. The major difficulty I would see for basing it off of a ratio is that people who already have a great deal of stats would have difficulty in changing their ratios.[/quote]

Of course not as I said, the more unbalanced you are towards a certain stat/group of stats the higher the abilities you can unlock, you also need "high"stats to unlock the abilities. But this wouldn't mean MRD would be the most powerful everything (his stats aren't that high btw, just attack def and rusties mainly [url="http://magicduel.com/players/.mrd.?p=.mrd.)"]http://magicduel.com/players/.mrd.?p=.mrd.)[/url] It would mean (if he where balanced) that he could do a bit of everything.

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Again, we've already mentioned that some stats gain slower than others, that's not so much an issue, it's easily fixed. It's more an issue of being able to selectively gain one stat over another. The fact that only five stats are available from saccing is also not that big of an issue. Do you really need more than attack, defense, power, luck and regen? This is of course excluding Vp and Ve. Certainly other stats could be included, but trade sense, briskness and energetic immunity don't necessarily make as much sense for basing a class off of. (I'm sure Kriskah Arcanu may dissagree) Though I do see the issue that some stat gains simply come with other stats when you sacrifice. Really though, you would only need a handful of stats to base classes from. Many can be made from a few stats, just tweak things like regen/totalstats>.008 and attack/totalstats>.25 gives you the something faced wierdo clown class. (I'm awfully tired) But yes, something would likely have to change in how stats are gained.

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Are you kidding me? Do you have any idea how important initiative and briskness are? A good spells casting class MUST include briskness as a requirement. As for init...sometimes being the first to strike makes you the winner of a battle even if the enemy is stronger.

Not to mention luck which is so rare but soooo good....

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Lightsage, I'm not sure I'm following you in the whole "more unbalanced" thing. Do you mean that as a regen/totalstats increases your spell power increases? So you could actually feasibly increase your spell abilities by lowering other stats? I'm not sure I'm following you.

DST, sure initiative is useful and important, but you would base a class off of it? What would the class be? Sonic the Hedgehog? Go getter? It certainly could be done, but it seems a strange thing to create a class from. Of course I'm really tired right now, so maybe it's not that silly. As for briskness, I considered power to be more the defining factor in a spell caster I guess. Sure, briskness would be useful, but would you define a class on it? You certainly could, but it's definitely not necessary. The point was, you don't need to use all of the stats for this class dilio.

Some things I just thought of/decided I should mention.

Mur mentioned this idea in passing, and may not even have considered it much himself, and it may not e something he's actually looking into. Don't want to get anyone's hopes up.

I don't think classes should come into play if they are created until MP4 or 5. MP3 is confusing enough already, and this gives a person at least a little time to think about what class they want to choose and start working toward it.

Another way that abilities could be advanced would be by points of some sort given by RPCs for various reasons. I feel like Mur wants to push some things a bit more toward role play, and as this bit greatly adds to role play many people would feel left out if this addition is best utilized by stat grinders. Also, it would make sense that a healer would gain abilities training under a healer (Calyx, Envy).

And probably something else, but I really need to slip off to the realm of unconscious now.

EDIT: At Burns

Sure, it would all be usefull, but most people in the realm have a role, it makes sense for a person to be a healer. If you're a healer you're not going to be the strongest warrior, it doesn't really make sense. I suppose a person could change, and perhaps a person should have a portion of the skills carry over, but it doesn't make sense that someone who has been a healer for a single day, and a warrior their entire time in MD is stronger than another healer who's been such for months. Switching should entail loss, it cheapens things if it does not. This game is ever evolving, and Mur could keep adding new things to classes if he wanted. We could also go with a system where a person is allowed to keep abilities he's gained from other classes when they switch. Sure, you are now a really poor healer, but you're still a decent warrior. Anywho, I really am off to sleep this time.

Edited by Guybrush Threepwood
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:) You got it wrong Guy. You said that only few stats are important and I told you that all stats (ok..maybe except trade sense at this point) are important. And I was saying that you cannot create a class based only on 1 stat. You must combine them; attack with def for warrior, regen and briskness for healer. As for the power...I think it's one of the less important stats (again...at the moment cause things can change in the future) cause your crits always life steal a percent which has nothing to do with the actual power. I have more than 500 power but I do the same life stealing as any other player. Power DOESN'T work at this point.

As for init, it should be combined with attack and def for the warrior class. Not be a single class.

Conclusion: classes based on a single stat are not effective and you cannot implement them.
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Instead of constantly tearing down Guybrush Threepwood and telling him that he has a 'terrible idea' and that this [u]isn't[/u] going to work, how about some of you toss out ideas on how it can? Guybrush Threepwood is going against some of the weakest role-players this game has inflicted upon it. However, I wish to offer kudos to him for holding his own against such rampant ignorance and inability to change.

Guybrush Threepwood is looking to expand the role-playing segment of this game and his ideas have merit. Are his ideas perfect? No. They can certainly use help, but all I am seeing is three stat grinders ripping them apart, instead. I do not believe he asked for that in his original post, but for aid and suggestions.

At first, Mur might set up only have enough programming to support a few, limited classes, such as warrior, healer, and mage. Those are some of the most basic classes there are in nearly every game. They can be based on a single statistic to begin with. However, as a class system evolves and changes, so too can the basis of these classes. Multiple classes can be based on the same statistics, too. A barbarian, warrior, and knight could all be based off a combination of attack and defense. A mage, a healer, and a "red wizard" could use power and regeneration as their base. However, it is the ratio of these stats, when compared to each other, which would determine which class the player would fall in.
Also, Guybrush Threepwood stated that five stats are the basis of most of his class ideas. This, again, is how many games are set up. Is there a place for initiative? Yes, most certainly. Is there a place for trade sense and briskness? Of course. However, it would make sense to work with what we have at the moment before including everything. Guybrush Threepwood is proposing an idea that would help this realm, not hinder it.

As for the MP3 question, why can they not have a class? It would be a very weak (roll-wise), very basic class which would introduce the concepts of the different classes which would be available to them as they play and progress through the game. Everyone starts out as something. The most powerful wizards and battlers had to begin as something weaker. The same could be done for MP3s.
Also, gaining power or abilities should [b]not[/b] be based solely on the accumulation of stats. That is [u]not[/u] what this game is supposed to be about, but there seem to be so many who wish to keep it that way. Powers and abilities should be attained by quests, role-play, and similar activities, some of which could be automated.

This is what Guybrush Threepwood is looking for and it is what he deserves: ideas and suggestions on how this could work and how to avoid letting the abusers and power gamers gain by the system.

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Thank you watcher for your kind words. BUT we "the weakest role players" in MD are probably the best fighters in MD and we know almost everything about stats (gaining, how they work etc etc). I can't care less about the idea Guy had. When I started playing MD it was not a role playing game (even if it was called like that) and I don't intend to change my style (and I think I did enough things to beat even the best RP-ers in MD -yeah I am not modest cause I don't need to).
So, all I personally did was showing Guy where I saw some of the flaws in his idea.If he wants to take them into account fine by me if not...fine by me :D. But I hate to see false statements about what I know for sure that is true. Again: I can't care less about those sort of things(RP ideas, improvements etc etc). I take them as they come (adopt them or try to stay away). For me MD is still a fighting game (with some nice quests occasionally). As long as there are crits I can use and players to attack I will consider MD a fighting game (moreover the battle system gets more improvements then the RP :) -see the tokens :P).

But enough said: I hope I made my point. If not I will try better next time.

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From RP perspective the term class is very restrictive. I have no idea what traditional box to put my character in...

The option to have your interface change to a healer one, will likely have both advantages and disadvantages that influence the battling. I don't think it will interfere with RP though. Some people get their inspiration from it, others will try to nudge their interface towards the one that matches their character most. Just like with principles: you choose the one you think most fitting, but they don't define you unless you want them to. They also don't impede you from battling, in fact it is quite possible to ignore them completely. I wouldn't advise you to, but it is possible.

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[quote name='Watcher']rampant ignorance[/quote]
for one to critizise it, i'm afraid your post gave a good example for this very attitude.

i must say, and i apprechiate the irony, that although she said that she doesnt care about the idea guybrush has, all she did until your premature attack was giving constructive critisism. guybrush told his idea, dst and burns pointed out a few flaws concerning things they know a lot about - stats and game-mechanics. they did not attack the idea itself. bringing suggestions in correspondence to how things actually work (even if the as-is is something you'd want to get changed, someone has to bring to mind how things currently work) is an honest try to help him improve the idea, not a blatant rejection. by the way, you do realize that a lot of what you pointed out in your post (3rd paragraph) is pretty much what they proposed?

i assume your critisism just sounded a lot more offensive and self-pleased than it was meant, so let's go on with the original idea of the topic :)

i like the ideal of the polymath, so i think it should be a [i]choice[/i] if you want to strongly specialize and dedicate yourself to a certain role/class or if you are a restless wanderer, a seeker learning from many masters but never fully satisfied by what you know and what you are.
as for on what stats (or behaviour) the classes should be based, i'd say oversimplifying at the start makes things only more work-intensive when you want to add more-/ more complex classes later. in the best case you could base some classes on multiple stats (briskness and power for mages), maybe some on principles and stats (a healer benefitting from having the syntropy principle sounds reasonable) and others nearly completely on quests and rp (merchants/thiefs). simply said: having something for everybody.

[i]when to introduce classes:[/i]
the game introduces its elements step by step with each new mp level. i agree that letting new players learn about the general battle system and develope an own role at mp3 and introducing the class system as a means of specialization at mp4 once they got a hang of basic mechanics and a better grasp on which role they really want to play in this realm sounds like a good idea.

Edited by Nex
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ey, i'm trying to bring up constructive critics whereever i can, but if i don't see light at the end of the tunnel for an idea, i might as well say that straight away, shoudln't i?

and i stated a different suggestion, too...

and well, yep, you consider my RP non-existant, but for me, grinding is for defining my role as warrior, activity for my role as zen-master and constant chatting and idea-crafting my philosophical side...

just because my role is too complex for you to see it's full extent, it doesn't mean it's not there, Watcher =P


classes could be nice, yes, but STATIC classes are not...
not everybody wants a shallow role as simple healing entity or basic damager, a whole lot of the older players who are still around are trying to explore their limits on every sector, and not be pushed into a class and rot there

now you could say that i'm selfish [which would totally be true =P], but i don't see this game as a matter of 3 months and then being done with it, like soooo many pother games, but a real long-term game, and frustrating people with taking all their options to grow off them won't make it long-term fun...
it would just create a feeling that the casual gamer can reach everything he wants in 6 months, and then leave to never return :unsure:

so, i'm still fighting for a dynamic system of classes, creating fighting-heal-paladins [call it as you wish] who can actually increase their powers til they reach the cap of every 'skill tree'...

if you want to introduce spells to the standard no-name player, do it for real, or you'll force people to create 3 alts to get one acc in every class and help themselves with every power they want... and those are the players who are NOT chatting and being active and stuff, because really active players do real activity with every account, and not logging into one just to help the other...

Edited by Burns
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Some of these things I feel I've already mentioned, but here goes again. Yes, something would have to change with the stat gain system, but that should not be too terribly difficult to do as sacraficing values for crits are up for change at any time as Mur has said. Also, power may be entirely useless for fighting (a good thing if you ask me, a life steal that takes 100% of a creatures Ve is just ridiculous) but in principal it is not at all useless to a mage. Just because it doesn't have value in a fight doesn't mean that it couldn't be the basis of a class. Just because it is useful in a fight (initiative) does not mean you need a class based off of it. Would initiative be helpful in a warrior? Of course, but it doesn't need to be involved in how your class is decided.

The only issue I have with the way of class by ratio is with the fact that older players would immediately be thrown into a class that they are not interested in. Burns, you have a good point, people do want to change things up (though this doesn't necessarily make sense as far as roles go, to be hopping around classes constantly). Previously I already proposed the idea of being able to switch classes, but only keeping certain spells from a previous class, or keep all of them but they can be used less often/are less powerful.

The more I think about gaining points to put toward spells from RPCs in quests the more I like it. This would mean that people who have advanced farther into a class have quested a great deal (and I think this would help the role-play in the realm, at least if quests were done correctly). This would be a way to make quests more directly affect one's battling prowess.

Anywho, thanks for all the criticism, it's helpful. Burns, it'd be wonderful if you could perhaps flesh your idea out a bit more for the class system and summarize it. I'd like to start summarizing each idea we already have and start practically thinking about what would need to be changed/done before it would work. This post is already a bit long so I won't start here.

(Didn't DST win best villain? Doesn't that take Role Play? I guess I haven't been here long, and have no idea what happened.)

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ok, my idea of such classes would look like that:
1. you go and decide which class you want to be in
2. you stop gaining stats that are not part of this class, maybe even have saccing-values altered to fit in
3. for the stats you get, more spells get unlocked, which you can 'learn' by receiving a mystical magic point or something the like from an RPC/faction leader
4. you can do that as long as it pleases you, and when you get tired of your class, you have the option to retire from it (which will set your old spells on hold) and try something different (which is not allowed just like that, but only once per month or so)
5. you repeat 1-4 as often as you want/have time/see it fitting

after doing that, you can drop out of the class-system when you like and stay class-less, which will mean that you can't learn any more spells while you are not in a class, but may use all spells you got so far (but only 10 times per 14 days instead of 50 times)
you also start gathering stats 'the normal way', so it might be kind of a strategic decision to stay without a class to get all your stats up and then go into one for special training and spell-getting

however, the flaws i can see in my system are the following:

-RPCs and Faction leaders need to be ACTIVE QUEST-SETTERS for that to work, and the quests can't be insanely hard or have only 10 winners per month, there are too many people out there who want to cast spells
-to avoid the illusion of easy-attainable spells, you need tough requirements to learn a spell, which contain not only good stats to cast them, but also age-requirements [like 'you need be part of that class for 15 days to see the next spell/you need to cast at least 50/100/150 spells of that class to get next spell/you need 200 power to see the next spell (which is not really hard with the current system, just a matter of time)]
-this will NOT stop people like me from getting every spell from every class in the long run, which seems like your target, Guy...
-it would make it very very hard for players to get a decent fighting profile if they get stuck in a class that doesn't gain attack for a month, to prevent that i'd suggest that you can only choose a class once you are experienced enough to deal with the drawbacks [my idea for that would be attack-stat over 200/more than 300 swords, most likely both of those requirements]

i guess there are more flaws, that idea has not been written down yet, it was just wandering my mind for a few hours, so i guess i'll see more flaws tomorrow (unless you find them first ;-))

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That's a pretty fleshed out idea and I like how it works. Not being terribly interested in stat grinding I would personally prefer spells to simply have a age cap and this mystic whatever point personally. I guess I was more sticking with the stats you have changing your class because that's what Mur had mentioned, but I rather like the idea of choosing your class better.

To add one more issue of this system, it would take a great deal more work as you would have to change the way stats are gained for each class. This is of course do-able, but the less work the better for Mur. I would also like to see a bonus to the stats you do gain while in the class as well as not gaining stats in other areas.

As for the idea of 10 spells every 14 days compared to 50, I do like the idea of making spells less useful once out of a class, and that's one way to do it. I think that was just a suggestion on your part, but I think the same thing could be done by making the spell weaker, or only keeping certain spells. (I'm sure you're not a fan of this).

All in all I really like the idea of choosing a class and I enjoy the multi-class like feature. I'm happy to just work with this and expand on it in ways and look for other issues, unless someone else has a different idea or Mur gives some say on how it'll work.

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I refuse to read absolutely all of the posts, but my suggestion to this idea is that we can coincide this with the upcoming factions. Calyx, myself, and several others are proposing a healers faction to Mur. Once you are in, you could possibly have a different stat gain percentage than a... say... Mage lovers faction... This way, you can focus on a certain attribute style, and become what you want... however, if this were to be so, factions should be left for those who are in MP5 maxed exp. Because there is no WAY that an MP3 healer with high regen is going to last against an MP3 that is a Power based Necromancer....

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@ guybrush and burns: i must say i really like the idea that took shape in your last posts!
a requirement of a certain experience (progress/age) in some basic classes to access a "prestige"class could be interesting for veterans and those who try to perfect themselfs in as many arts as possible.

also, a nice addition could be a class/carrier page for your profile in which you can express your choices from a rp point of view. example:

an experienced priest and healer who is no longer satisfied by merely tending the wounds of the injured hears about a famous paladin and wants to learn how to wield a blade in order to protect those who cant protect themself. why should he just try to heal the wounded when he could shield them from harm in the first place. he undertakes a quest to meet this paladin and become his student. a novice with the blade, but still a quite capable healer who focusses on a newfound purpose (thus still able to cast the abilities he learned, but not improving in them as long as he focusses on other aspects). the new 'warrior' abilities he gains would be of protective instead of offensive natrure. the story of his change of classes could be integrated into rp and his class page tells of his motivations and the path he walked until now.
the famous paladin could have had a wild and bloody past, but redeemed himself from it by dedicating his powers to serve the poeple and is now an inspiring example.

students could either join a faction as fenrir suggested or try to become a student of a famous master of a certain proffession. (this could further involve some battle-oriented veterans into rp, in a way they could actually take some pleasure in)
it would also encourage the forming of legends based on actual game events and rp.

@ fenrir: thats why we(/i) proposed that the class system doesnt start at mp3 but rather step by step with some basic classes at mp4 and maybe some advanced classes for mp5 (or with requirements of age/ class experience/etc that would make sure that those who chose them know their way around).

Edited by Nex
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[quote name='Kafuuka' post='30084' date='May 3 2009, 12:11 PM']From RP perspective the term class is very restrictive. I have no idea what traditional box to put my character in...

The option to have your interface change to a healer one, will likely have both advantages and disadvantages that influence the battling. I don't think it will interfere with RP though. Some people get their inspiration from it, others will try to nudge their interface towards the one that matches their character most. Just like with principles: you choose the one you think most fitting, but they don't define you unless you want them to. They also don't impede you from battling, in fact it is quite possible to ignore them completely. I wouldn't advise you to, but it is possible.[/quote]

Because i don't know how else to explain my point of view on this... I'll use myself as an example and hope it helps

Intrigue is a very active RP'r... and she wouldn't fit into any of these catagories with her flowers and markers and tickling attacks upon random people. Granted... she'd probably get tossed into the fighter class just because of stats(if you go off of what is kinda outlined in the inital suggestions), but that is not what she is. She's a goofball. Her principles reflect imagination and such, and compliment her role. Vary rarely does fighting come into role with her, and honestly... I fight for honor, and upgrading... and that's it. But... on the topic of fighting... I even incorperate that into RP on the rare occasion that she does get the urge to smash heads.

I guess my point is this... Some of us RP more than others, but for those of us who are very active in our RP, as I am, the generalized classes aren't one size fits all. I do believe though, that this could be a very interesting twist in the game to be able to specialize in what you do/who you are, EVEN if you don't RP much and instead just fight, fght, fight. Some, who train constantly, would benefit from this immensely, and, because it's somewhat a reward for their efforts, I totally support the idea, I just have no idea on how to make it work for Intrigue.

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I initialy had the foolish ideea that if i give all of you lots of tools to play with and build your role you will use then creatively and for improving , changing, adapting a role. However, some of you, i wont say just dst and the celebrity grinders, showed me that this is impossible. A lot of you will abuse thse tools without even realising its an abuse, and maybe its not an abuse.

from 110% speed in bringing new fancy things i droped to less than 10%, because i have a fear of such people that can destroy things realy easy and be happy about it.

Character classes ? u must be joking ... so what i said so...
yes its a very very cool idea, and could turn md into a much more fun place allowing peope to actualy do their role....
so what? ..what if just one of you realises that he can use this supposed new feature to cumulate spells, or to do other things i never intended to be done? It takes ONE person to abuse things and then even the hardcore roleplayers will follow and do major damage. Look at what happens in MD now, take for example alliances, the loyalty frenzy.

no more fun stuff
you (some) of you are happy to find ways to avoid rules, and never realised MD is not about such rules, then rules you will have, all of you.

I wont say more for now because i don't know what the solution will be and what steps i will take, but i hope you get my point so far.

and a little more.... go play WOW, thats a game tottaly dedicated to grinders, such games make money, cause addiction, keep you active a lot more. The difference is like between a work of art and a crap that just keeps you entertained.

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I totally agree with Mur on this

there could be many more fun things added

but because of the bug abusers and grinders or stat farmers or what ever else you want to call yourselves you ruin the game for the ones who want to role play and find the secrets and fun in the game as it was designed

so please go play WOW or some other Piece of S*** game designed for that

so Mur can stop having to spend ALL his time paroling and keeping things balanced and can allow the game to grow

this is my 2c
The Metal Mage

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