A weird comparison

[Shadowseeker]

id: 138253

Thats the ID of a drachorn Kragel has. The one with that stardust and goldtear token.


i got one through a quest with rj
abd then i was gifted one when i became a rpc

That's a copy of what he told me in YIM.

Thing is, as far as I know RJ never did any quests where gave the creatures via CTC, nor did that system exist when he turned RPC in march.

As a comparison:
His player ID is 100657.

Mine is 50659, and one of my oldest creatures ever is having the ID ID:118759, an elemental to be exact.

Now, how did he acquire that drachorn, so old that his account DID NOT exist when it got recruited? Either he lied to me, or was there perhaps a drachorn of the auction involved?

(4 were sold, he says all got sold afterwards again, I only know of: Calyx and possibly Fenrir acquiring one. Fenrir in brackets.)

This is something I can't properly investigate (since I can't locate the trade partners) myself. I'd ask for a list of those traders to know for sure, but he seems to hate that.

Other way is to run things via Mur, to let him check the CTC. That would equal calling for a trial, which I cannot do without having drained other means or real proof.

I just wish to call this to the attention of the public, that is all.

EDIT. Taken out something. Accidentally posted contact info I shouldn't have, I apologize for that.

Edited May 19, 2009 by Shadowseeker

[Kragel]

edit

im not responding to your crap

Edited May 19, 2009 by Kragel

[Shadowseeker]

Now, I wish to clear this:

I am overly inquisitive and curious and see things where there are none, yes, I admit. I apologize for this, I know it myself.

But, please tell me why you are so overreacting? I know you are RPC and special with that.

I however ask when I see weird things. And this was one case.

Why cannot I do that? I am merely trying to improve the game.

As for this, if this shows up entirely different, then I will apologize. If you wish to see further action, why are you so overreacting if you only get a single drach trade?

Oh, and EDIT:
Kragel, you are showing....a side of you I wouldn't expect, but why the hell are you doing that? I try to keep this rational and as polite as I can, but I heavily dislike being insulted like this.

Edited May 19, 2009 by Shadowseeker

[Kragel]

you dislike being insulted ?!?! what a crock


you think you can insult anyone you wish and make them look bad by sticking your nose where it should not be

but when they tell you you are a low life and other things they think of your ways you dont like being insulted


well goody for you cry somewhere else


for your info the creatures i have ALL of the creatures i have are mine from auction traded or other trades and from my personal creatur4es i have obtained ... most of my pay from the auction was in creatures cause there was not enough coins for it so if i choose to keep the creatures i can if i wanted to keep every drachorn i got in the auction i could have BECAUSE IT WAS ALL HONEST ABOVE BOARD BUSINESS

SOMETHING LOW LIFE CHEATS LIKE YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT


but i chose to sale or trade some of them that again is MY BUSINESS !!!!!


YOU ARE JEALOUS CAUSE I HAVE A CREATURE OLDER THAN YOU THEN FIND A WAY TO TRADE FOR ONE YOURSELF BUT STOP TRYING TO DRAG MY NAME THROUGH THE MUD BECAUSE YOU SUCK

WHEN YOU SEE SOMETHING YOU HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT YOU ASK SOMEONE YOU DON'T ASK THEM HALF A DAMN QUESTION MAKE UP THE OTHER HALF THEN POST LIES

YOU DON'T WANT TO BE INSULTED YOU STOP INSULTING PEOPLE AND STOP STICKING YOUR NOSE PLACES WHERE IT SHOULD BE CUT OFF


UNTIL I SEE ALL INSULTS TOWARD ME GONE FROM THIS FORUM FROM YOU ALL OF MY INSULTS STAND BECAUSE YOU SHOW YOURSELF A CHILD WITH NO HONOR

Edited May 19, 2009 by Kragel

[Prince Marvolo]

Err... Kragel
Shadow was just wondering something, you don't need to get mad, just give your answer and done...
No need to shout in caps...

[Burns]

interestingly enough, i asked in a very polite manner and you reacted in the same way just yesterday...

and Shadow and i were not having contact since, if you are wondering about that =P

Now, let me make one thing VERY clear: I DON'T CARE!

BUT, you were saying that people who cheat others into bad deals need to be hanged, i have that in a PM from you and it's common knowledge, and now let's sum this up:
you got very potent drachorns (maybe amongst the strongest creatures available) FOR two lazy afternoons of doing nothing but taking the next offer... and you KIND OF tricked people into believing that they were doing it for Krishka and the Market-thingy...

SO, in conclusion: either you think about your definition of a cheating deal again, or get a rope and hang yourself... as i don't care, both is okay with me...

PS: By now i know why you are being all bitchy in the last few days,..., but don't log in to let your steam off, get a punchingball!!
THAT is low and muddy, to throw around with insults and caps instead of giving in what you are doing...

PPS: you have no idea HOW low i can go to get truths, my west is bright enough, and those who have nothing to hide have a much easier time when asking others for showing colours...

*edits the personal part away* Sorry, didn't know that facts you hear in public chat of GoE don't go on the forums...

Edited May 19, 2009 by Burns

[Kriskah Arcanu]

Burns,
Kragel did not "KIND OF tricked people into believing that they were doing it for Krishka and the Market-thingy..."
He said from the start he was going to be profiting. [b]He said it! [/b]
Like I said before, he ask his profit remains private. Which I respected, and he gave the market its share [b]like he promess. [/b]
The "privacy of his profit" it is not something I was completly convinced, we did had a conversation about this, but I decided to accepted his terms, so everything was set and agreed from the start.
K

His words:

[quote]post Apr 27 2009, 08:21 PM
Post #1 |

The Metal Mage is going to get in on some of the fun ...
We are going to have a slave auction to benefit the MD Market Fair!

Here is how it works: if you would like to sign up, leave a message saying you want to be included.

The final price of your sale in the market will be divided between myself and Kriskah, with a small portion going to the slaves to buy their freedom, if need be ...[/quote]

So, just for the record, Kragel didn't tricked anybody into this auction. Not me, not you.

K

Edited May 19, 2009 by Kriskah Arcanu

[Guest]

*edit* matter is resolved (see below)

Edited May 20, 2009 by Guest

[Burns]

[quote]We are going to have a slave auction to benefit the MD Market Fair![/quote]

Second sentence in the slave topic...
personally, i was doing it for the market because i was curious to see what you can do, and when i was reading the part about profit 'being shared' between Kragel and Krish i was like 'Oh well, he is having the trouble, he might as well have a few coins for it'... and personally, i FEEL cheated because i have been used for something i do not support at any lenghts and was given wrong impressions on matters... when you do that in RL, it's being called 'wilful misrepresentation' and contracts made on that base are not worth the paper they are written on...

I'm not going to say what exactly his 'share' was as i'm still not sure about a few of the things he kept, but there are some players out there who are more observative than i am...

and if i remember Kragel's price list correctly, even those i know about (but can unfortunately not prove myself) are worth more than what i'd call 'a share'... therefore i feel abused and cheated, and call for further investigations [i like going done that next step... soon i will reach 5th floor...^^]

EDIT: oh, @ Kragel [and all the others wondering]: this is my business because i have volunteerd for it, so everything concerning the slave auction is also concerning me and i'm not sticking my nose into things that don't concern me, like you stated more than once already

Edited May 19, 2009 by Burns

[Kragel]

wow i should have thought of that thanks kris


The final price of your sale in the market will be divided between myself and Kriskah, with a small portion going to the slaves to buy their freedom, if need be ...


for people who cant do simple math divided means split usually in half .... in this case since everyone wants to MY BUSINESS .. i gave her fully half of the coin value meaning ALL of the coin and creatures to make up the rest of half which she can give out or sale or [b]whatever[/b] she wants to with them cause they are hers she can even sale them to make extra profits


then i took my half and sold creatures to pay [b]ALL[/b] the commissions [b]ALL THE REWARDS[/b] and [b]ALL[/b] the other expenses ... leaving me with some creatures that were my pay on top of that i was cheated out of some creatures i would have had but got to repo the slaves and had a couple of slaves for that ... and i got cheated on some creatures some as young as 3 days old when i clearly stated MAX age creatures only with the exceptions of soul and priests which i accepted ...


so i dare anyone now to try to say i tricked or cheated anything when i gave way way more than i got...

Edit: This is the only time i will go into detail about my business trades

Kragel
The Metal Mage

Edited May 19, 2009 by Kragel

[Intrigue]

[quote]The Metal Mage is going to get in on some of the fun ...
We are going to have a slave auction to benefit the MD Market Fair!

Here is how it works: if you would like to sign up, leave a message saying you want to be included.

The final price of your sale in the market will be divided between myself and Kriskah, with a small portion going to the slaves to buy their freedom, if need be ...[/quote]

I can understand the misinterpretation here. I did it myself. I read the second line, assumed that the profits were going to benefit the market, read further down and saw that the amounts were going to be split between Kragel and Kriskah and ASSUMED that it meant they were going to both to further the market with these funds. Not as personal profit. That being said, I do feel slighted by this, but... life goes on.

So both of you know, Kriskah and Kragel, at this moment, I'm going to disperse what little "profit" i made off of my own aution. It were my own misunderstanding, and i wish that neither of you would take it personal. Had I not been in such a rush, I would have asked for further clarity regarding the things I made the assumptions about.

*edited to reword a few things

Edited May 19, 2009 by Intrigue

[Burns]

and i'm dearly thanking you for it, now i have a good impression of what deals are fair and which are not in the eyes of the person who has a strict 'no foul deals' policy

see if i get it correct: 2x5 hours chatting plus a few forum posts rigthfully earn me creatures which are worth 300 coins on low prices? i guess i get the impression...

thanks for clearing things up for me, you know... i wanted a precedence set to see what is and what isn't a so-called foul deal =)

i hope you don't take that all too personal, i still like your opinions... in fact i like them even more now ^^

i just did what i felt necessary for getting what i wanted, and to me that topic is done unless someone chooses to pick on me :hi:

[Guest]

As you might have seen, I was the second highest buyer in the auction. I had checked [u]beforehand[/u] to see where the money would go, and was satisfied with what I found out. This was the beginning of something interesting in MD. It put creatures and coins into circulation and was satisfied that the trader would take a cut of the profit.

Ailith

Edited May 19, 2009 by Guest

[cutler121]

It seems to me that anytime someone tries to do something new that puts you out in front to be criticized and attacked regardless of what it is you are doing. Some people just like to argue and others just like to be hurtful. Fortunately there are lots of good people at MD as well. I know how hard it is when people treat you unjustly, and this seems to be just such a case.

I chalk it up to "no good deed goes unpunished".

So, that might be a bitter solace but I figure keep doing good things no matter how hurtful others get and at least one person will keep some dignity.

Oh yeah, since this was concerning the buying and selling of slaves ... oh nevermind.


Cutler

[Kragel]

*From: Burns

Apology
I'd like to apologize for flaming you in the last few days, and as i've said i totally understand that you are a bit thin-skinned these days...

i was not inteding to take this to a personal level, or take the matter to the forums, but i wanted a straight answer to see what is fair and what isn't =)

and i'm goin gto forget the insults you threw at my head, they don't matter that much to me, and i am sorry that MD is now going to flame you, that was none of my intentions

regards, B

first off burns this would have meant more if it had been posted here not sent to a pm then i look back here and see yet again another post from you ....


secondly when you attack someone accusing them of cheating and other things like this IRL you can get in trouble for the false accusations im not asking for your head but this is wrong on so many lvls how many times did i tell you and others to go back and re read the auction post ...

but no everyone only wanted to try to hang someone because they have forgotten about he fun they had and now they only see the coin or creature they traded away ... ok so for that im a bad guy ?

honestly go the to store and buy something (steak and wine) take it home and enjoy it or better yet burn the stake and spill the wine and go back to the store and tell them you want your money back tell them because you burnt the steak it did not taste like it should have and they cheated you and see how fast they laugh you out of the store ...

[Burns]

did i give you the permission to post my letters? ;-)

and imo private things go to private messages and the public things go to public forums... but i guess you can have different points of view on that ^^

plus i thought what starts in PMs can also end in PMs, but eh, i have never been that good at telling the differences between private and public matters

and you know that your comparision is nowhere as good as you'd like it to be, because i am not argueing about getting money back or something... all i did was questioning the share the shopkeeper got, the share the farmer got and the share that went somewhere else... for that they won't laugh about me, in fact they will twist around the answer as much as they can because they don't want to give in how much they kept LOL

and you know, i'm not inclined to start it all over again, but you were unsure about it yourself, weren't you? else you could well have stated in the initial post that you would keep 50% for yourself, and spare all the aftermath-troubles, right?

and if you held that fact underboard knowing that you would gain from it/lose something if it got public, then i have nothing more to add on who of us two is more or less wrong...

[Thanatopic]

How is it anyone's business what has gone one behind closed doors between two engaged ina joint venture? Honestly, Kragel has every right to be indignant. He has every right to question your private apology when he was attacked in a public manner twice. And honestly, your glib remark regarding permission stinks of scrambling to save face.

This has gotten out of hand, and Kragel is right regarding slander. It is within his rights to demand reparations for the harm done to his reputation as a Tradesman. This is probably a low-scale offense to be brought before our newly created court, but that is the only manner in which this is a low-scale offense.

[Muratus del Mur]

As reaction to this topic i requested FULL and detailed report of all market activity so far and its tradable goods and their profit share.

Kragel will contact Kriskah and get this report to me asap.

I also understood that Kragel doesn't feel right to make these things public so i will act as buffer to judge the market situation and decide if its something wrong and fix it if needed. Personal anger and provocation from some people made Kragel react in a way that has nothing to do with a useful answer to this issue, and now he realises that.

I understand your fear of this to be a big scam, and i must say i didnt inspected the market situation to close so far and only supported it so it can start running, but i assure you ...both market and the "clients" of it ... that the market will run and exist ONLY if it will be fair, stable, and provide services that will not leave the slightes impression of scam or fraud.

I am sorry for the reactions of some people in this topic and i didn't expect neither of you to speak like that. For a RPC thats inadmissible and he will have his moral and penalising in private and hopefuly this wont happen again, for those provoking him and offending, i can only say that regardless of reason such behaviour is not a normal way that you can get any reason from anybody and will only harm your reputation on the long run.

[Gauge]

Hopefully this matter can rest now.

[Kragel]

burns the only think im unsure about is how much of 50% is left after all the loss and things paid out and the fact that it is on creatures that i will get my coin back out of with some and will need to grow and even add tokens to with others to get them to sale


i am preparing the report for mur to see on all the transactions

Note: this report will also include the people who did not pay fully and still woe coin from the auction ...


now

i try not to get mad and i took the personal attacks against myself and my character personally and responded badly to them ... i stand behind my ideas and things i said for the most part but i am very sorry for the yelling and language that has been posted in the forum be it originally posted here or pasted in here it is inexcusable for me as a player or an RPC to talk to my fellow players in this way

i dont know what else to say

Kragel ...

[Shadowseeker]

Hm.

I have to say I am just trying to get something clear, and to be honest I did not expect such an answer from Kragel at all.

My impression of the auction was that this was NOT for profit, and thus my concerns regarding this can be explained somehow.

About this whole matter I can only say that I am merely trying to understand something properly, and wish to see it done in public even.

The concept is something of a mixture of politics and journalism, because I wish to be informed about things that go on. Journalism, don't get me wrong, not in the usual sense of scandals, I try to keep it rational...it's merely to point out things which look weird in my opinion. I however dislike setting punishments, I did not mention anything with Fenrir's punishment on purpose. I do not dislike him, I just think what he did is wrong and wanted to inform all, that was it.

Politics come into play because of the system: Everyone who gets involved as an RPC/with events like the auction is likely to be questioned, but I honestly did NOT expect you, Kragel, to overreact in such a way, although I understand that you are angry.

A lot of things seem to run behind closed doors, which is obviously why players get suspicious. I'm not into politics myself, but in MD I am interested in seeing the idea, and sometimes I feel like I do get a hang of it.

I myself as a fellow trader hereby [b]apologize[/b] to you Kragel, and I accept yours about the use of language, although it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth, I'll be honest with that, it was not exactly the nicest what you were saying.

Edit: I have to admit I accept this, although you apparently are not being sorry for being so insultive at all. At least that is what I think.

If you want further compensation regarding this, tell me.

Edited May 20, 2009 by Shadowseeker

[Kriskah Arcanu]

I am trully concerned about this auction-market conflict. It really worries me that something that originally was intended to build community by creating an entire new way of RP relations, can easily turn into the complete opposite.
The hole idea of a market for MD was suposed to be simple and plain fun roll playing, there is no other intention on my behalf.
Never intended to be in charge of MD Market, I trully hope I am not. What I have is a project but it involves the MD community, so it is for you to determine if the market thingy can work, not me.
The MD Market has to be something we all want, but we have to know the purpuses of the market are much bigger then the market it self, I am not sure if people understands that... we will see.



Ps. All coins (except those for rewards we allready talked about), and all creatures from the market fund are going to be used to trade for items (which is what I been trying to do from the start), I do not wish to keep them. I do not enjoy having a bag of coins, and I am also not the fighting kind of player, so I will hoard only if people do the same with items. Nevertheless I will not pay for expensive items because I want to be able to sell them in a accesive price, want every player to have a chance to participate.

Edited May 20, 2009 by Kriskah Arcanu

[Nex]

just a minor grammatical thing, more of a pun, but i guess its better to point it out before people start splitting hairs in the "she said in her post that she wants to keep it all herself"- kind of way

[quote name='Kriskah Arcanu']I do [b]not[/b] wish to keep [b]none[/b] of them. I [b]dont not[/b] enjoy having a bag of coins[/quote]

double negative. [i]not[/i] wish to keep [i]none[/i] means you [b]do[/b] wish to keep some, or all.
same with do not not enjoy having a bag of coins

[Kriskah Arcanu]

[quote name='Nex' post='31720' date='May 20 2009, 03:37 PM']just a minor grammatical thing, more of a pun, but i guess its better to point it out before people start splitting hairs in the "she said in her post that she wants to keep it all herself"- kind of way

double negative. [i]not[/i] wish to keep [i]none[/i] means you [b]do[/b] wish to keep some, or all.
same with do not not enjoy having a bag of coins [/quote]

Thanks Nex.

No matter how many times I edit I allways leave some grammar mistakes
You should all learn to speak Spanish

Edited May 20, 2009 by Kriskah Arcanu

[Kafuuka]

[quote name='Kriskah Arcanu' post='31713' date='May 20 2009, 09:13 PM']Never intended to be in charge of MD Market, I trully hope I am not.[/quote]

Alas, people that consider leadership a burden are more prone to be trustworthy than people that consider leadership a position of glory. Meaning you've just doomed yourself to get even more people voting for you. And with that I hope I added something positive to this tread.