Lifeline Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 (edited) Hey i thought that it is very annoying that token for which u spend real life money in the MDShop could end up hurting u. There is not a single item in the MDShop that could turn out bad for u expect some tokens that restrict some creature on certain rits or even make them completely worthless. So in my point of view there should be the option to delete unwanted tokens from creatures suffering under the token effect. Let me present u an example here: Imagen u get a claw1 token on a tree with lets say 2000principle points. That would totally ruin ur tree. It would soon start to weaken (it would start weakening the def instead of adding def) ur crits instead of protecting them and even the regen for loosing xp wouldn’t work anymore the way it is supposed to. One single token would totally mess up the crit and make it worthless. Now u spend real money on that token and all it did was to screw up one of ur creatures. (And it can be much worse imagine those very rare token u almost never get on a wind dragon that leech a lot of vitality and power from other crits to the wind. It would insanely reduce the value of a wind dragon because u wouldn’t be able to put it together with an angien in the rit anymore. And the wind dragon doesnt even have any use for power. The wind would greatly weaken the angien and that with tokens that have a very slim chance to even appear on a crit. And u would for sure not transfer a wind dragon that needs insane age away just to make sure that it doesn’t get a specific token with low chances to appear.) In my point of view it should be possible to delete token from a creature. Those unwanted token that actually weaken the crit instead of strengthening it. I know that some of you don’t have token and probably don’t care about it but it would still be great if u consider this scenario happening to u. would u not be unhappy if one of ur rarest crits turns out weakening ur angien and therfore forcing u to not use it anymore? I am not doing a poll because I dont want newer players who dont really understand what the problem is to vote on it. That is why I decided to just collect names of players who think that there should be an option added to delete token that are already on ur crit. I will edit this post from time to time adding playernames who support this idea... EDIT: ok here a list of people whom i was able to speak to so far. they support the idea about a feature that allows u to delete token that are already on ur crit: Gauge Liberty *Princ Rhaegar* ladytwin aslien Lightsage Neno Veliki CrazyMike Thunder Lord *Clock Master* avengedeath Sharazhad Shady Jester xPo dst tankfans AntRamCastle Dayredeemer zeTsu grass Ledah AqlBeast adiomino Sparrhawk Shantu redneck Phantasm Cutler Fawe Memory .Chewett. Unbelievable Power BloodPrince Willem RedBeard baiano .Metal Bunny. Werewolfer *IBRUZU* Czez XinHun .Ailith. Kriskah Arcanu Death Bell Innundo Mcvitie .Cryxus. Death Ring MRWander Lady Renata chrispr Aeoshattr Azrael Dark Dhyone No one Marvolo Lupinus *MasterB* Pipstickz Renowan *frostas* darlec77 60 so far! awesome i never thought i would get that many supporters because i get a lot of replies like "i really dont care because i will never buy tokens" and because i only ask older players because i dont want this list to be uncredible because there are new player names on it that dont really understand the game mechanics well enough yet. BECAUSE SOME PLAYERS ON THIS LIST ONLY SUPPORT THE IDEA OF TOKEN DELETION AND NOTHING ELSE I WILL ADD THIS HERE: ALL PLAYERS ON THIS LIST WERE SPECIFICALLY ASKED IF THEY WOULD SUPPORT A NEW FEATURE TO DELETE THE TOKEN NOTHING ELSE. IF SOMEBODY CHANGED THEIR MIND PLEASE TELL ME AND I WILL REMOVE UR NAME. Edited August 13, 2009 by Lifeline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwoodforest Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 [quote name='Lifeline' post='32799' date='Jun 5 2009, 03:00 PM']Hey i thought that it is very annoying that token for which u spend real life money in the MDShop could end up hurting u. There is not a single item in the MDShop that could turn out bad for u expect some tokens that restrict some creature on certain rits or even make them completely worthless. So in my point of view there should be the option to delete unwanted tokens from creatures suffering under the token effect. Let me present u an example here: Imagen u get a claw1 token on a tree with lets say 2000principle points. That would totally ruin ur tree. It would soon start to weaken (it would start weakening the def instead of adding def) ur crits instead of protecting them and even the regen for loosing xp wouldn’t work anymore the way it is supposed to. One single token would totally mess up the crit and make it worthless. Now u spend real money on that token and all it did was to screw up one of ur creatures. (And it can be much worse imagine those very rare token u almost never get on a wind dragon that leech a lot of vitality and power from other crits to the wind. It would insanely reduce the value of a wind dragon because u wouldn’t be able to put it together with an angien in the rit anymore. And the wind dragon doesnt even have any use for power. The wind would greatly weaken the angien and that with tokens that have a very slim chance to even appear on a crit. And u would for sure not transfer a wind dragon that needs insane age away just to make sure that it doesn’t get a specific token with low chances to appear.) In my point of view it should be possible to delete token from a creature. Those unwanted token that actually weaken the crit instead of strengthening it. I know that some of you don’t have token and probably don’t care about it but it would still be great if u consider this scenario happening to u. would u not be unhappy if one of ur rarest crits turns out weakening ur angien and therfore forcing u to not use it anymore? I am not doing a poll because I dont want newer players who dont really understand what the problem is to vote on it. That is why I decided to just collect names of players who think that there should be an option added to delete token that are already on ur crit. I will edit this post from time to time adding playernames who support this idea...[/quote] Why to delete, the whole problem wouldn´t exists if you where able to select the creature you´d like to improve. This random thing is maybe good to not create ueber-crits but well...I have an elemantel with a claw 1 token - how useful... but 1 token for 1 $ is much.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Zl-eye-f)-nea Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 I have to say I agree the random thing is a little silly. If it were random for any creature that it would beneficially effect- that would be alright, but like this it's just naff really. Especially when you consider that if you use an alt you can just put it on the creature you want it on anyway by cheating, so in a sense it promotes cheating. That in addition to the bugs and what lifeline has just pointed out AND the fact that in my opinion once you get multiple tokens on your creature the artwork is ruined with excessive splodges, well...lets just say i'm not feeling the love for the tokens right now. Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lifeline Posted June 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 the token are randomly distributed for a reason and i doubt that will be changed. it will probably not and there are very good reasons why it should be randomized. the topic is only for those token that end up hurting some crits. and since u bought them and should also be able to remove/delete them again if they mess up ur precious crits. so please stay on topic and not turn this into a thread flaming tokens. the question is just if adding a delete option for token would be something positively seen by the community. ah and btw it appears that the bugged token has been fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Zl-eye-f)-nea Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Well I could argue also there is a very good reason why you do not have a delete button option if that is your point of view on the matter. I could, if I were to play devils advocate on such a point of view, say that by having that delete button you are in effect removing the part of the purpose of the tokens among other arguments that could be made. As my point of view is not the same as yours, I just thought I would level the playing field a little on the topic, because obviously people will say yes to the suggestion if they follow that line of thought. Any additional feature that can only have a positive effect (such as the choice to delete a token or leave it) will obviously gain a positive response - but that doesn't mean it's the best course of action for an issue at hand. Bugs fixed? Excellent. Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burns Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 you are overpowered enough the way you are, and now you want to delete a super-token from your wind drach just so you can use it along with angiens? :fool: i think that tokens should not be deleted, they all have their uses... and they give your tactics a more personal twist, you will be the one player who won't use angiens in the same rit as a wind drach, have you ever thought about that? tokens give your creatures uber-powers (your drachorn is just about the most destructive thing in the realms), so it's just fair that they close other strategic doors for you :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lifeline Posted June 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 [quote name='Burns' post='32807' date='Jun 5 2009, 05:13 PM']you are overpowered enough the way you are, and now you want to delete a super-token from your wind drach just so you can use it along with angiens? :fool: i think that tokens should not be deleted, they all have their uses... and they give your tactics a more personal twist, you will be the one player who won't use angiens in the same rit as a wind drach, have you ever thought about that? tokens give your creatures uber-powers (your drachorn is just about the most destructive thing in the realms), so it's just fair that they close other strategic doors for you :lol:[/quote] lol i would never use my wind dragon with angiens anyway. i put token on 6 creatures that i only plan to use very rarely. right now i only have a token defence because i got no crits. i wont ever mix my token crits with non token crits anyway. tokens are way to overpowered and arent fair at all. i personally dont suffer from this at all. yes my wind dragon has those token but i dont care about them at all because i alrdy have my fix 6crits that go into the token rit and there arent any crits that need power or vitality in there. it was just a worst case example. [b]i made this thread for players who mess up their trees or other crits with a claw1 token for example. a tree needs a lot of wins after all to max and spending 1credit just to be forced to sac ur tree and retrain a new one isnt really nice.[/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Maybe a solution could be found to discern between creatures getting the tokens. By this I mean, the creatures like trees that are mostly used in non defensive rituals do not get any tokens that are meant to boost certain stats and in doing so, affecting their natural abilities in a way that Lifeline pointed out in his first post. I like the tokens, and they have very interesting uses. However I do agree that there is a difference between a token boosting a creature or changing it it in some interesting way and actually affecting the creature in a way that for the most part makes it unable to be used for what it is needed for. So maybe keep the random selection, but have certain tokens miss out creatures they might 'damage' in this way.. this would only mean a couple of creatures, I think, as some effects (like the example with the wind drachorn) might make for interesting and imaginitive rit making ^^ p.s. if not a delete button, then a button where you can choose to make the token active or inactive maybe? You never know, you might regret deleting a token afterwards for some reason..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lifeline Posted June 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Lady Ailith' post='32812' date='Jun 5 2009, 06:12 PM']Maybe a solution could be found to discern between creatures getting the tokens. By this I mean, the creatures like trees that are mostly used in non defensive rituals do not get any tokens that are meant to boost certain stats and in doing so, affecting their natural abilities in a way that Lifeline pointed out in his first post. I like the tokens, and they have very interesting uses. However I do agree that there is a difference between a token boosting a creature or changing it it in some interesting way and actually affecting the creature in a way that for the most part makes it unable to be used for what it is needed for. So maybe keep the random selection, but have certain tokens miss out creatures they might 'damage' in this way.. this would only mean a couple of creatures, I think, as some effects (like the example with the wind drachorn) might make for interesting and imaginitive rit making ^^ p.s. if not a delete button, then a button where you can choose to make the token active or inactive maybe? You never know, you might regret deleting a token afterwards for some reason.....[/quote] yeah a button to switch them on or off would be the same thing but i dont think so much control about them was ment to exist. u could alter a fight too much if u keep switching the token on and off. i think deleting them would be the better option since they are disctributed randomly afterall. random because u should not have 100% control over them. and only those really hurting ur crits are the problem that u wouldnt want to switch on anyway. u buy something so u should be able to get rid of it again if it proves to be hurtfull to u. turning on and off is as i said giving to much power over something that is discributed randomly. but whatever u spend money on should not end up hurting u and curse u forever. if it is a curse u need to have an option to get rid of it not alter it. i however dont think that banning some tokens from getting onto specific creatures is good or even possible. and if only with a lot of work. the tree uses power so why would a power boosting token not be able to go on a tree? that wouldnt make sense. the problem is that if the tree has too much power it starts weaken defence instead of boosting it. and most players who dont know this will start loosing after some rounds and will most likely not even notice why. i doubt there are many people around who read the entire fightlog and not just the log from the first few rounds. this negative effect would only kick in towards the end and crucial part of the fight. i am sure it wouldnt be noticed and people start wondering why they keep loosing without realising that their trees started hurting them Edited June 5, 2009 by Lifeline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRWander Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 IF there is a token switch off option i think it needs to be made in where you make the ritual i.e "use tokens in this ritual: yes/No" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 (edited) [quote name='MRWander' post='32830' date='Jun 6 2009, 12:38 AM']IF there is a token switch off option i think it needs to be made in where you make the ritual i.e "use tokens in this ritual: yes/No"[/quote] Ohh.. even better^^ Apart from the messing up trees issue, if I am fighting against players without any tokens, it would be honourable to switch them off completely... I like it! [quote]yeah a button to switch them on or off would be the same thing but i dont think so much control about them was ment to exist. u could alter a fight too much if u keep switching the token on and off. i think deleting them would be the better option since they are disctributed randomly afterall. random because u should not have 100% control over them. and only those really hurting ur crits are the problem that u wouldnt want to switch on anyway. u buy something so u should be able to get rid of it again if it proves to be hurtfull to u. turning on and off is as i said giving to much power over something that is discributed randomly. but whatever u spend money on should not end up hurting u and curse u forever. if it is a curse u need to have an option to get rid of it not alter it. i however dont think that banning some tokens from getting onto specific creatures is good or even possible. and if only with a lot of work. the tree uses power so why would a power boosting token not be able to go on a tree? that wouldnt make sense.[/quote] My intention was to offer hypothetical thoughts that might inspire further ideas, as it has with Wander's great suggestion. I understand what you are saying about having the consumer's choice to take away the token, and agree the option to delete would be great, but not as a sole solution to this problem. Having only a delete button, I think, might exacerbate the situation a little.. how long after its implementation would there be comments about 'I bought the token, can't use it, so I had to waste my money.'? Rather than people thinking they had no choice regarding tokens, they might think they had a limited unfair choice, and the debate would continue. I agree that missing out certain creatures in the random selection is not ideal and would take work, but I was thinking really only of trees, as they have been mentioned a few times with regard to token problems. Take your following quote, for example: [quote]i made this thread for players who mess up their trees or other crits with a claw1 token for example. a tree needs a lot of wins after all to max and spending 1credit just to be forced to sac ur tree and retrain a new one isnt really nice.[/quote] In suggesting an amendment to the random selection process, I was referring to the tokens that you yourself have mentioned making a tree useless, not those that might be utilised. So rather than spend money on a token that falls on your tree, making it useless, and having the choice of either saccing the tree or deleting the token and thus wasting your money, I was trying to suggest something that might bypass it completely. It makes sense to me anyway XD I think tokens on other creatures that I use only for attack (i.e. not trees in my case) are interesting, and it will be a challenge to see if I have to amend my rituals or rethink my fighting style to accommodate them I agree that the delete button would be great also ^^ Personally, the only token/tree issue I have had so far was the bug, so I am glad to hear that has been fixed Edited June 6, 2009 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burns Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 what about trading the tokens that hurt you away? you can even gain something out of it that way, as with other principle combinations, best example LOWER principles for the tree issue, the tokens are strong instead of hurtful... and i think that this would be a lot more in the way Mur intended it, as he already stated that the tokens are a reason for trade, unique creatures and such... imagine you could take your too-much-power tree and trade it for another tree with maxable age (that's not that much for a tree XD) and some other stuff to someone who is more than glad with a new very-good-power-tree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Zl-eye-f)-nea Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 Like it Burns, if Im thinking about what you are saying right that is lol. So...if you can trade *just* the token? is that what you mean? and the token would then (obviously, otherwise you might as well just be able to put the token where you wanted it in the first place) get randomly assigned among the person who bought it's creatures? Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burns Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 nah, i'm talking abotu the normal CTC-trading, tokens stay on the critters when you trade the creature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nex Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 well, i'd say we have 2 pretty interesting ideas about tokens here: 1) on/off switch for rits to allow battles to be deceided by setup strategy instead of tokens/stats 2) trading tokens to be randomly re-distributed on the trading partners creatures i second both of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 Excellent recommendation Burns.. if the token has a dependancy on principles, swap it for an equal creature with someone who doesn't have those principles? I like it ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightsage Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 [quote name='Nex' post='32840' date='Jun 6 2009, 02:09 PM']well, i'd say we have 2 pretty interesting ideas about tokens here: 1) on/off switch for rits to allow battles to be deceided by setup strategy instead of tokens/stats 2) trading tokens to be randomly re-distributed on the trading partners creatures i second both of them [/quote] Anything to stop people from trading till the tokens are on the creats they want them on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lifeline Posted June 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 [quote name='lightsage' post='32844' date='Jun 6 2009, 02:30 PM']Anything to stop people from trading till the tokens are on the creats they want them on?[/quote] my frist idea was as well to be able to trade a single token away to be distributed randomly again. but then i realized as lightsage did that u could keep on doing it even with the really good tokens until the crit u want to have it has it. so i came up with the idea to delete it. from murs post i got the feeling that he doesnt want to give the player too much power over the tokens. there is already an elite that can afford everything in MD so they shouldnt get their tokens perfectly distributed. thats why i thought the only solution to the problem with having unwanted token was to complete delete them. as i said before u spend money for something u know might not prove valueable (might randomly end up on the wrong crit). but if u did spend money on it u should at least be able to undo the damage it did to one of ur creatures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nex Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 (edited) you got me there. i was hoping it would get implemented without further thought to get all my tokens on useful creatures nah, seriously: the idea is a good one, a simple trade cooldown of xx days would avoid overly abusive trading. right now you can just trade your favourite creature to someone with very few creatures, get the right tokens on it and trade the creature back to get the same effect. i think the only limiting factor we need on the (hopefully) new feature would be a time restriction for trades. trading creatures cuts the age by half, trading tokens takes some (or much) time between trades. sounds good to me [edit: was a bit misleading before edit] Edited June 6, 2009 by Nex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lifeline Posted June 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 just had an idea there could be a new item added in the shop giving u the option to do something with unwanted tokens. ok then lets collect names... who also thinks that it would be great if there were an option to either delete a token or as nex suggested have a cooldown but be able to discribute it randomly again? or any other idea doing something with the unwanted token? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Udgard Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 I would vote for a choice to activate/deactivate tokens. Seems like a very good idea IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowseeker Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 Still, deactivating them doesn't really make strategic decisions possible...I mean, you can get a few annoying effects off that way, but you can't fool the enemy this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lifeline Posted June 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 yeah and i think we arent ment to have so much control about the tokens. thats why i suggested simply an option to delete those u dont want. i dont know if it is only me but if i would have some token on a crit that doesnt need them i would rather sacrifice it and get a new one instead of keeping it with useless tokens. it would just hurt my eyes to have a creature boosted with something that isnt neccessary. and even if it does nothing in a fight i would still feel like i have an advantage since my crit has token. there should be a begging section on the forum ;P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burns Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 and why sacc it instead of trading it? there is a CTC-space on the forum for a reason, trade your useless tree for a useful critter XD say, you have an ele with a power-up which is pointless for you as you have tons of power anyway, then you could trade it to a new player who'd be more than happy with a little extra power on the ele, and you can get some coins or an ele with some age for it... same for the trees, as i have already mentioned, it's too-much-power for you, but in another players hands, it might still be a super-strong-protector... i'm sure that if you offered claw 1 - creatures in the creature market, the newer players would literally fight over them :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lifeline Posted June 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 lol what kind of argument is this pal? u admit that u mess up one of the crits, that u trained and spend a lot of time in plus real money to buy a token, and say ahhh just give it away to some new player and all is fine? there are people out there with just 16 creature slots who might not have the time to get 100+ wins to train a tree back up. and especially not after the disencouraging of spending money for something that ruined it. ohh and no matter what they would get offered they would still be forced to get those wins back on the tree to max it which is time some roleplayers arent willing to infest into fighting. of course if u fight 100 battles a day its no prob and u are strong. but imagen the average player who now has to somehow deal with all the killer defences around because nobody wants losses. they are happy to even gain a bunch of wins especially if all they do are 10fights a day with only 16crit slots. and now they need to somehow gain (wait lemme look that up) exactly 150wins because they spend real money on something they hoped would help them but ended up destroying their crit? sorry but when i look at this i really have the impression that an option allowing u to delete token that end up being harmful to u would prevent a lot of dissatisfaction. and this example was for a tree what if a rare creature suffer under a token u cant replace so easly? and that with only 16crit slots. take the token that leeches 1/5 of the vit from other crits. u got that on a rare creature that doesnt need it and that with only 15 other crits in ur slots. so now u really limited to the possible creatures to put in a ritual. ohh and it might be ur precious rarest crit and the other 15 crits u have in ur profile dont go well together with the new randomly decided and distributed token. that could in a bad combination really mess up ur whole battle strategies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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