Burns Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 (edited) and what kind of argumentation is this? d'ya really think that some casual player has the principles that are necessary to make claw 1 work against you? like, over 2000? you do know how much saccing that makes, right? LOL well, you probably never cared, but that's another question... you can always regain any creature, even the rare ones, if you offer the same creature with a token that people are interested in XD so, who cares for the players who are hopping around on mp4 with 16 slots? they CAN'T ever find a token that messes them big time and have the bad luck to get it on a creature they 'need', and if they would by any chance, they could easily find a replacement... there is no point in talking about the casual player here, this problem only hurts the fighters elite, like alts for HC, or really strong mp5, and not the players you talk about :lol: EDIT: to come to your tree example: 150 wins is next to nothing for any player who cares to get them, there are still enough mp5 who are close enough to balance (unlike you and me) to still give free wins, especially wins that don't result in a sheat for them (not even to mention the wagon-loads of mp3 and 4 out there, who are in GGG and dojo day and night), and just to set that much staight: if you have the time to raise the principles you need to make a tree turn against you, you also have enough time to get those perky little wins... and for your second example, you can definitely find players who will happily trade drachorns for another drachorn with nice tokens, like that vit token you mentioned... the extra waiting definitely pays ^^ Edited June 9, 2009 by Burns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lifeline Posted June 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Burns' post='33111' date='Jun 9 2009, 08:10 PM']and what kind of argumentation is this? d'ya really think that some player under 1000 atk has the principles that are necessary to make claw 1 work against you? like, over 2000? you do know how much saccing that makes, right? LOL[/quote] oh is that so? ever thought about none allaince people hmm? they have fights up to 15 rounds. thats plenty of time to give even with low principles a tree the chance to start weakening u. a lot can happen in 15 rounds and if a fight is that long then it should especially not get messed up in the end because of some miraculous token interferance. and besides its not only the claw token that might turn out harmful... EDIT to ur EDIT: heh this starts being fun... wouldnt u agree that its much easier to just get rid of the unwanted token on a drachorn(ur example) instead of going through posting, negotiations, having to trust the other, searching, and many other things to set up a successful deal? Edited June 9, 2009 by Lifeline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burns Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 (edited) easier yes, but less fun for everyone involved... and yes, it is fun already^^ and you know that a tree even without ANY extra-stats will [color="#FF0000"]EDIT: stop giving bonus defence[/color] to you from... (counts a bit) approximately round 13 onwards, so the weakening is an effect you [should] take into consideration when using the tree either way and with the super-effect sucha tree has in the first 6 rounds (considering a token power that is just about reachable for a common casual gamer), it more than justifies the drawbacks it develops from round 13 onwards [color="#FF0000"](EDIT: it takes that long to really hurt you, even when it stops protecting in round 7)[/color]! and well, the other tokens are not hurtful, they are advantages you need to put in the right use... while an overpowered claw 1 is really evil and useless (if used under the wrong circumstances, and any player who makes it long enough to get an over-powered claw 1 should definitely know how to turn that effect around :lol: ) EDITS: had to make some clarifications, it was hard to understand on second glance... Edited June 9, 2009 by Burns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lifeline Posted June 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 oh well we could go on like this for quite some time ... if something u spend real money on in the MDShop ends up hurting u in any way or proofs to be a limitation it would be great to get an option to delete that unwanted token. it wouldnt give u much control about token or anything. it would simple be an option to undo damage u suffered for paying money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I am Bored Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 not sure if this has been mentioned yet (i wasn't bored enough to read the entire topic) but what about the option to randomly redistribute the token to another random creature, although this would open the possibility of putting many tokens on one creature, although if it was made less likely for the token to be put on a creature that already has a token, and that effect was greater for every additional token on that creature, that might be able to close to eliminate the possibility of moving all your tokens to one creature, and if it was distributed in this way, if there was a single creature you wanted to have the token, you may have to work a bit at transfering it..... although there could also be a limit on the number of token transfers permitted every day.... as then you could get the token off a creature it hurts (or makes it not work well with another creature) and it would help prevent abuse of the token transfering..... and if it transfered to another creature, you wouldn't lose the money you spent to get the token. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Admin Chewett Posted June 13, 2009 Root Admin Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 IAM that has already be mentioned but its the abusability of getting the tokens on the creatures that you want is too much. I just think removing or disabling them would be best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lifeline Posted June 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 hmm somehow i never got to make a list of who supports this idea. i wanna make a list and edit it into my first post to show how many have interest in a change like this. if u dont want to spam this thread just saying u support the idea please send me a pm on forums or ingame saying that u support the idea and i will add ur name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Admin Muratus del Mur Posted June 24, 2009 Root Admin Report Share Posted June 24, 2009 list, where Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lifeline Posted June 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2009 [quote name='King Manu' post='34589' date='Jun 24 2009, 12:31 PM']list, where[/quote] sorry for the delay i am very busy lately and in china. i added a list of 22 people so far to my first post. i will keep expanding it in the next days. everybody who supports my idea liking a new feature being added that allows u to delete tokens that hurt ur creatures please pm me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantasm Posted June 25, 2009 Report Share Posted June 25, 2009 i support this and would like my name added to the list. Disable is fine. to turn on or off. I think if the option is to erase the token instead of disable it then it should be wiped and not returned to the MDshop...if you are willing to take it off the creature you should eb willing to lose the dollar you payed for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lifeline Posted June 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2009 yeah i think so too. if delete it then it has to be gone forever. disabling it would help too but i think its easier and better to just have a delete button behind each token on ur crit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guybrush Threepwood Posted June 25, 2009 Report Share Posted June 25, 2009 I would much prefer the ability to set up rits that do not take tokens into effect. Some of these tokens are way to powerful. Fights are lasting about 1 round, it's all down to who has more initiative, because most fighters have more than enough principals to kill the opponent in one hit. I would love to be able to have fights again that tokens do not effect. I know, I could just raise more critters, but I don't have enough slots to replace every critter I get a token on and train them up again. Sure, I could just not get tokens, but then I won't be able to keep up with everyone while I'm walking around. It's also annoying to get tokens that hurt critters, and it's true that it does support cheating with the way they are currently distributed. Now, I do have another option that people may be interested in, and I know it's already been brought up, but what about giving a bonus for sacing critters with tokens? Then even if a harmful token landed on a tree it wouldn't be a complete loss (yeah, no one's gonna sac a windy, but there aren't a lot of tokens that could harm a windy, at least not one most would buy). The issue seems to me to mostly be an issue of the trees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyMike Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 I support the idea of deleting the tokens as it is an option for all the tokens gone wrong. But a better idea would be to allow all players to choose the creature for the tokens bought. If we can control that, deleting tokens would be redundant. Majority of players get their credits from voting. To delete a token or give away a creature with token is painful. It is a wasted credit. Currently, buying a token is like gambling with 1 credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nex Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 i support a change to the current system. preferably this change comes close to what mrwander and guybrush described: the option to (temporarily) deactivate [b]all[/b] tokens for a rit. no chosing which. no minmaxing. either you fight your round zero 1-hit-ko token battle or you fight completely without tokens. this way you don't permanently lose the tokens, but don't have too much controll about them either, which was lifelines concern against selective disabling. what you can deceide is this: all tokens or none. (in fact, lifelines suggestion leaves you with a lot more "optimizing" potential ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redneck Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 i agree about wanting to take unwanted tokens off crits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shantu Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 Can someone explain to me why does a tree weaken your defence with too much power? I don't get it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lifeline Posted June 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 [quote name='Shantu' post='34946' date='Jun 26 2009, 09:07 AM']Can someone explain to me why does a tree weaken your defence with too much power? I don't get it..[/quote] see this topic for an explanation: [url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com//index.php?showtopic=3873"]http://magicduel.invisionzone.com//index.php?showtopic=3873[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willem RedBeard Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 Just want to add my thoughts to this topic. I've agreed to add my name to the list of supporters because this seems like it would be a fast and easy to implement work-around to what I think is another problem... and that is that some tokens are INSANE! Some tokens add very reasonable bonuses that are at least on the same order of magnitude with a creature's original stats. Other tokens, like Claw II, for instance, add a bonus equal to certain principles. For me, this means I get an attack bonus for creatures between 3K and 4K... and it could easily be much much higher if I cared to pour all of my sacrifices to max that single principle. To put this into perspective, my attack is approximately 1.5K Maybe it is just me, but buying a token that gives a bonus that is more than 3 times greater than my stats is a little crazy. I love the look and behaviour of many tokens, but I think a few of them just need to be toned down a bit. Older/stronger players (and while I may not be fully in either of those catagories I still include myself in this statement) already have an easy enough time in battle, and many of the tokens just widen the gap into a canyon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guybrush Threepwood Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 The battle system was kinda headed in this direction anyway. To the 1 hit kill all I mean, as can be seen by some of the stronger players before tokens. The whole system of battle has a bit of an issue in that attack is easier to get than defense, which, in a system of ratios would be fine, but in the attack-defense=damage system... Well, 100-10=90. Reasonable. 100000-10000=90k. They scaled together, but it's still spiraling out of control. Now lets assume that it's linear. A person has 10000 defense, the opponent has 10000 attack. Two weakens later and it's taking 10k damage per attack. Of course this is the rather extreme end of the spectrum, but some people have gotten there. Tokens kinda just sped up the process. That being said I'm still all for the on off switch when creating a ritual as far as tokens go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nex Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 the big difference being that profile stats get evenly distributed among all creatures of the rit, while the effect for claw II (to name the most prominent example) is fully counted for every creature that has it. (not to speak of how much easier it is to power up tokens compared to stats) obviously a token attack bonus of 3000 is a lot more raw strenght than 10000 profile attack, since you can set 6 creatures with 3000 each, plus the ~1666 attack each of them gets from your profile. just to clarify there is indeed quite a difference. i know, kinda off-topic. sorry. end of thread-jacking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lifeline Posted June 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2009 i almost got 40 people supporting this idea but 95% were because i send ingame pms. i can only login each day about 2 hours so its impossible to even message 10% of the people playing MD. and i dont think presenting this problem to new players helps so all i have been doing was ask "older" players if they agree. please if u read this and would also like to see a feature added that allows one to delete token that hurt ur creatures say so in the post or send me a pm. i am most of the time idle at berserkers puzzle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gremlin Posted June 27, 2009 Report Share Posted June 27, 2009 How about instead of activating or deactivating tokens you can move them between creatures that would best suit your stratagies... that way your oponent is always on their toes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dst Posted June 27, 2009 Report Share Posted June 27, 2009 That is definitely not an option. It will "ruin" the hole randomness of the tokens aka the system you get them. Imagine this: you buy all the token and doesn't matter where they end up you have the chance of redistribute them. Then why use random when you buy them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willem RedBeard Posted June 27, 2009 Report Share Posted June 27, 2009 Unfortunately if people could assign tokens to where they want them, it would be even more ridiculous than it already is. At least the way it is now, you have to put in some effort or a lot of money to get a specific token on a specific creature. When I first bought some tokens I did not like the randomness, but now it is kind of growing on me. Though I would like tokens to show up on the creature in the fight log because I think half of the fun is just that some of them look great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xPo Posted June 27, 2009 Report Share Posted June 27, 2009 (edited) I think randomness cannot be changed... But there could be an option to activate/deactivate a token cause sometimes the token can be a "bad" thing... or just only an option to delete that token if we didn't want it on that specific creature... Edited June 27, 2009 by xPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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