Diposing Yrthilian As King Of Golemus Golemicarum

[Lifeline]

ok fine i see that there is a chance for those 30 members to get their ally back. but look at this. peace says wodin is a public char, is just a puppet and whatever and steals crits from him. it seems, to her wodin is a dead character that u can perfectly screw up and pilage because well its public and dead. if she justifies wodin being a dead unplayed character for her crimes against him then what about khal? khal left as well and is "dead". both yrth and peace damaged a character that is dead and left by its original owner. there is not much difference, besides the fact that necrovions were never able to move on without their old leader but GG was. that alone is why i think yrth didnt fail at all compared to necrovion. he got over the loss of wodin (when the original player left) and build a kingdom. the sentinels build everything around a character that left and werent able to go into a new direction. they stagnated. gg under the leadership of yrth didnt.

but anyway that was just one of my points i made in my post. its always easy to just take one point and argue against it and just ignore everything else. i also spoke about revenge. yrth seems to have gotten over it but peace still wants to make yrth suffer more.
and besides all this we speak about the ability to rule a land and be its king. yrth should be disposed of because ppl claim he is a tyrant for commiting crimes in the war which peace commited as well. since all of this was born from the war (dont tell me its about the war against lore as well especially i dont want to hear this from grido because grido was in charge of the stolen savels for a long time.)between allies and defenders. i simply compare necro to gg to see how good the leadership run the land. and to me its obvious that yrth did a much better job

[Yrthilian]

[quote name='Udgard' date='01 October 2009 - 12:24 PM' timestamp='1254396248' post='43398']

A misguided war against a whole Land caused by dislike towards 1 person, to which some protest has been made.

[/quote]

I knew at some point someone was going to bring this up.
This war did not happen because of a dislike i had wih Raven
As at the time i liked raven and had no persional issues.

This war happened because of abouse of powers brought in to the argument
and was not rectified at the time when asked to have it sorted.
I backed up a memeber of Golemus through that action and at the time
the persion in charge was given a chance to stop all that happened but took no
action on it. this was a wile before the breakout of the war.

The LR war was a mess and may have ben handled better this i had admitted to
at the time but that is the past. I still feel the action taken then was
the better of the 2 choices i had.

The notice of attack LR was on the allaince and not the land at that time
and it was the other allaince withing the land that stated they will defend
the allaince so yes in return the statment you are quoating is corrent. I would
have at the time attacked thoes defent that allaince.

No further explnation will be given for this as that will just start more
of this current form topic on others and me again.

Edited October 1, 2009 by Yrthilian

[Firsanthalas]

A couple of questions spring to mind in regards to this issue.
First of all, whats the point in having a crown, if you can't make unpopular decisions?
Second, people talk of deposing the King, but don't really go into details on what will be done in his absence. It also appears that at least 2 or 3 individuals are using this as an opportunity to promote themselves to that position (even if not in name).
Thirdly, this whole situation seems to be yet another mess that involves Real Life issues.
I know that someone mentioned before that RL issues do affect people, BUT its supposed to be a game. People play games and sports everyday, crush their opponents and then manage to go to the pub and have a drink with each other. Its not unheard of you know. The actions of a person in character are not meant to be those of the player. Indeed people will often play characters with completely different morale values and personalities from the real person. You can 'play' the villain, without being a villainous person. At least that is the way things should be.

I would encourage all parties involved to sit down OOC and discuss what happened. Then try to work out some kind of a compromise and get things back on track. I don't think that any party here is in the right as such. Mistakes have been made by all and personally, I think it would be better if all concerned tried to work it out so that future animosities and complications are avoided. I appreciate that is most likely easier said than done and that you most likely have spoken to each other, but at least consider a compromise. At the end of the day I don't think that Golemus is being served by this at all.
After the situation with Loreroot a while back there was a lot of bitterness and resentment. That is still there to be honest and it serves nobody, either within or outside of Loreroot.

I am sorry, but I do not think that people are acting in the best interest of Golemus here at all. To me, it looks more like personal battles, revenge and attempts to seize control or power. Neither of those things will result in anything good for the land of Golemus or its people.
This is just the view of an outsider looking in, without all the pieces or answers. Take it as you will.

[Metal Bunny]

There has been lot's of debating about what a king is and what it should imply.
I firmly believe that since this is MagicDuel, the normal definition of king cannot truly imply the definition used in real life. Namely, a single leader, either through military ascendency to power or hereditary, who bases the foundation of it's rule on (usually) either god(s) or the people. Though god(s) are used more often.

Mur is the only thing here that comes close to the real life equivalent of 'god(s)', simply because he made it and can do anything with it what he wants. BUT, Mur is different from real life god(s). Because Mur manifests himself clearly and evidently and Mur interacts with the people on a far greater level and from that interaction we know that he can change things, if the people ask for it enough, with adequate reasoning.
So, divine mandate is much more akin to either story-related mandate or popularity mandate, which is the same as the people.

A king in MagicDuel is either in the form of Khalazdad, a story-related mandate, or in the form of popularity mandate, which applies to Yrthilian.
So yes, a vote here is equal to a military coup, simply because his main 'strong' supporters, Grido and me (if you were wondering why we are 'strong', it's because we are RPC's and can influence the game in a 'higher-than-average' way) not only stopped supporting him, but started the coup against him.
This also applies because death is also of a different meaning here.



As for people asking what will happen next if Yrthilian was indeed to be disposed.
While I had already given a quick list of reasons to what I would do, somewhere in this topic, I refrain from doing it here further in detail, because of another post I made here. Namely, that this topic is about the dethroning of Yrthilian only, and it is not supposed to be an immediate 'election' for the rest.
I want to do this because it keeps things orderly and on-topic.
And it would be a bit chaotic with voting, no?


But, you are correct in the sense that people still need to hold a more concrete alternative, which is why I came forward. If there is no one better or more suited to the task of leading GG, then I will take it. If there is someone else more suited or popular, then I will gladly advise him/her.
But let this be clear, I will not replace one king with another, a new and improved democratic or meritocratic system is to be set in place to prevent one sided rulings which go against the main perceived and potential prosperity of GG.

[Lifeline]

i find this whole situation laughable. u want to get rid of a king that in ur point of view hasnt served his land correctly in the near past. then please judge the king on what he did. not just on his own land but compared to all other lands. get an impression of all 4 main lands how they were led and if the person in charge did a good job. make an average and if yrth is way below the performance of all the other dispose him. if he did perform just as good as the leaders of the other lands why replace him then? if u want to replace him then u cant just count on the hatred from the war to take him out u will have to state what u try to accomplish and above all do better than yrth.

and btw there was obviously a traitor in the alliance that invited peace in and made this whole situation happen. and now members of the alliance revolt against yrth because of what he did in response to stealing the alliance? could it not be possible that this was done on purpose? make him loose the alliance, hope he acts on revenge later on, and then bring up that he is not fit to rule to take it urself? i mean no offence with this and have no clue who the traitor is i just speak of this being a possibility. so please dont take it for more, i dont want to offend any gg member here with this.

a king cant be taken down by an election dont u agree? a king is a king he decides who gets which statues and job. if u want another status than the king gave u then u have to revolt. especially when u want to title of king then u have to force it. u need to take the king down. there is no election there is a forcefull revolution.
think about this again i guess this makes sense to all parties...

a revolution has to be thought through well. it has to be very clear who gets the new king title afterwards. otherwise the land will just be in more chaos. a revolution weakens the land greatly. if the revolution army cant even decide on a king themself then the land is doomed and sooner or later another revolution will take place because the last one was obviously not successful and didnt bring structure into the land.
now Metal Bunny says:

[quote name='Metal Bunny' date='01 October 2009 - 03:48 PM' timestamp='1254404919' post='43406']
But, you are correct in the sense that people still need to hold a more concrete alternative, which is why I came forward. If there is no one better or more suited to the task of leading GG, then I will take it. If there is someone else more suited or popular, then I will gladly advise him/her.
[/quote]

what is this? doesnt sound planned or thought through at all to me. there is no promised structure after the revoltion and disposing of the king. this can just bring more chaos and hurt the land more if there is so little planning being done. this cant be claimed to be for the good of golemus as a land. such an unplanned revolution or whatever it is now will just weaken the land more and more. GG will loose all its respect if its possible to overthrow the land without a new agenda and just more chaos to wait until finally a new leader is elected.

isnt it said u get what u already have in MD? how can u simply elect people for kingship then by popularity? u have to proof that u have the potential to be a king. u need to be able to stand up against the tyrant and take his status. u have to fight for it and go through with the revolution and then put urself into that position because it was u who managed to take down the old king. it is what proofed that u as a future king can stand up agaist a possible threat. if u just lean back afterwards and run an election u obviously dont have what it takes to be king. and above all u lagged all preparation u just "beheaded" the old king and left the land in chaos afterwards just waiting for something to happen to bring structure back into it. u have to bring that structure urself and nobody else if u want a strong land.

[smartalekrj]

[quote name='Muratus del Mur' date='01 October 2009 - 05:45 AM' timestamp='1254390348' post='43393']
I am planing to use this situation to implement a ingame voting system that will be similar with the forum but will cont the score based on your reputation and will also be something to hold as evidence for MD history over time.

The player reputation will be eventualy calculated automaticaly but for now i will be the one rating each vote with a value based on who i know you are and the reasons you gave. So the more important/old/influent you are for the realm the more powerfull your vote is. The more good reasons you give, with good logic, proof, etc, the more powerfull the vote. Reputation and reason will count PROBABLY equally, but i am not sure right now.

Please be prepared to write your reasons and opinion in a clear form within that voting system, even if you posted it allready here on forum.

In case I don't manage to finish that voting system in time, i will use your opinions here on this topic for a decision.
[/quote]

A voting system such as this REQUIRES YOU reading it. Do you really have such time to do so? Based on the "voting systems" you have had in the past they have proved byast(however you spell it not gonna bother looking it up) where one person and their alts portray mass voting will this really be any different? if so how? Most know i'm not a fan of your voting system for various reasons of you past conclusions based on the voting system in itself. It should be an easy implement, yet it's constantly flawed. I am not saying you are right or wrong so please dont put a post saying why your right, but instead show the real effort you wish to see out of the voting system details. The Question here is how do YOU want it to be seen?

[cryxus]

I personlly have no qualms about the leadership, but as MB stated death holds a different meaning in MD and such we cannot assume once someone is in power they will hold power indefinately until it is convenient for them to leave.

I have no problem with the way things are being run currently, but this falls onto the people of GG to decide. Do I think Yrth was rash? yes. Do I think Grido was rash as well? yes. Still, however that does not change the fact that there will be a vote regarding this.

As for the name, appearantly a lot rests in a name... think about how a name indicates how someone will act. If I came in claiming to wish to be a dictator and rule the land, it would have a different conotation then if I came in saying I wish to preside over the land as a lord, one which looks over an area of land and insures it's well-being.

And Peace, as far as that goes, she isnt being called to step down, and whether she did worse things than Yrth is hardly pertinent to THIS situation. People have preconceptions on how their leaders should act, and if the leader fails to meet those preconceptions, or exceed them, then they most certainly should have the right to be able to dethrone them.

As for a more democratic GG, it sounds promising to me. As I said I will stick by GG for as long as I'm here, and I will try and do what is best for it's people. If they decide they feel I would be the best suited for the job, I am presenting the option, and notification that I will take such a place and will gladly see GG into a new era. Should they not, then I will still continue to stick by the land in which I care for.


~Captain Cryxus X'hal

Edited October 1, 2009 by cryxus

[Muratus del Mur]

RJ, with me the situation is very simple, either i am neutral or i am not. When i am not i dont ask for a second opinion. If you don't trust my voting system then its your opinion, but i know i do it in good faith hoping for a more accurate decision than a simple count. Considering you are not bothering to argument anything you say and you simply complain, i will not care to explain more why i see it better or what issues i think might appear. When you will want a serious answer, post a serious complain. Everybody can cry for a reason or an othet, its easy, and its very natural to blame the voting system when you don't like the results.

And yes, i am supposed to read, understand, and judge your each comment in there... something you probably consider me incapable of doing, since i constantly ignore your ridiculous messages, annoying pms, or stressing emails that keep comming for sometimes good, but oftenly not so good reasons.

[smartalekrj]

oh yeah if you were to implement such voting methods would you use it for various situations or just this one? You know what my angle is on this question and if you dont then you need to think harder. Basically i am asking you to prove me wrong with a vote from the people. Do you think you can? if you knew you could you would utilize this voting just for that purpose :-)

*to above post*
when the poll is mur 51% and people 49% that isn't really effect for voting, why bother holding a vote?

and considering i haven't sent you an email since i left status(now i see why sent messages are deleted when the person is read, so they can't be reviewed later) nothing is pointless, pointless is only a persons opinion. And 90% of my messages to you were bugs. So bugs are pintless to send to you? and since when do i email you? i send you a pm or randomly try to find you on yahoo.

Edited October 1, 2009 by smartalekrj

[Metal Bunny]

[quote name='Lifeline' date='01 October 2009 - 04:50 PM' timestamp='1254408640' post='43413']
i find this whole situation laughable. u want to get rid of a king that in ur point of view hasnt served his land correctly in the near past. then please judge the king on what he did. not just on his own land but compared to all other lands. get an impression of all 4 main lands how they were led and if the person in charge did a good job. make an average and if yrth is way below the performance of all the other dispose him. if he did perform just as good as the leaders of the other lands why replace him then? if u want to replace him then u cant just count on the hatred from the war to take him out u will have to state what u try to accomplish and above all do better than yrth.
[/quote]
Glad you find it humorous. Take an average of the lands? I will and the result is that, yes, Yrthilian has performed badly, duh, why else are we doing this? Have you even read the reasons why (and not just the burning of K and the ousting of Grido one's, there are more).
[quote]
and btw there was obviously a traitor in the alliance that invited peace in and made this whole situation happen. and now members of the alliance revolt against yrth because of what he did in response to stealing the alliance? could it not be possible that this was done on purpose? make him loose the alliance, hope he acts on revenge later on, and then bring up that he is not fit to rule to take it urself? i mean no offence with this and have no clue who the traitor is i just speak of this being a possibility. so please dont take it for more, i dont want to offend any gg member here with this.
[/quote]
Again, it's not just that single action, it is the total of all his bad actions together, and if you still don't get it. It's not just his /bad/ actions, it's also his inactivity. Have you seen how many activity days wodin dropped? I have, and while the total measurement of activity days is not a good and accurate measurement, the /lack/ of activity days is. Wodin is an empty and dead, almost hollow character. And it is not just about Wodin. Yrthilian himself spends an amazing time at his lab, researching. Inside the alliance I felt almost no unity, no kinship with anyone, contrary to when Wodin was in charge. There was a decline after wodin left, yes, but the growth that was to come never fully came. And that was under yrthilian's leadership. Compared to the current growth of Necrovion and how Loreroot recouperated after GG had invaded, I find that yrthilian did an inadequate job.
[quote]
a king cant be taken down by an election dont u agree? a king is a king he decides who gets which statues and job. if u want another status than the king gave u then u have to revolt. especially when u want to title of king then u have to force it. u need to take the king down. there is no election there is a forcefull revolution.
think about this again i guess this makes sense to all parties...
[/quote]
I had hoped I wouldn't have to explain this, because I assumed it was so simple already.
Of course holding a mere vote is not enough to oust someone. You would have to get control over the alliance first and guess what? We do.
In fact, the military coup is done already, all this vote is doing, is ending this military coup, as it is legitimizing the coup based upon popularity votes.
[quote]
a revolution has to be thought through well. it has to be very clear who gets the new king title afterwards. otherwise the land will just be in more chaos. a revolution weakens the land greatly. if the revolution army cant even decide on a king themself then the land is doomed and sooner or later another revolution will take place because the last one was obviously not successful and didnt bring structure into the land.
now Metal Bunny says:

what is this? doesnt sound planned or thought through at all to me. there is no promised structure after the revoltion and disposing of the king. this can just bring more chaos and hurt the land more if there is so little planning being done. this cant be claimed to be for the good of golemus as a land. such an unplanned revolution or whatever it is now will just weaken the land more and more. GG will loose all its respect if its possible to overthrow the land without a new agenda and just more chaos to wait until finally a new leader is elected.
[/quote]
You want real concrete plans? I have them, but again, I won't post them here because it's off-topic. It creates chaos and ensures a 3 page long off-topic debate and makes it all chaotic.
And you need to ask yourself in what status the land is in now, because it's already chaotic. But the moment GG starts recruiting again, and that will be the moment yrthilian is de-throned or stays on the throne, then order will return.

You people are putting all of this waaaaay toooo muuuuch into the real life perspective, but that's not possible!
Where is death? How does loyalty go into all of this? What about Mur?
This is MagicDuel, stop making quite frankly, useless real life analogies.
[quote]
isnt it said u get what u already have in MD? how can u simply elect people for kingship then by popularity? u have to proof that u have the potential to be a king. u need to be able to stand up against the tyrant and take his status. u have to fight for it and go through with the revolution and then put urself into that position because it was u who managed to take down the old king. it is what proofed that u as a future king can stand up agaist a possible threat. if u just lean back afterwards and run an election u obviously dont have what it takes to be king. and above all u lagged all preparation u just "beheaded" the old king and left the land in chaos afterwards just waiting for something to happen to bring structure back into it. u have to bring that structure urself and nobody else if u want a strong land.
[/quote]
Potential for king? I know I do. When wodin left, yrthilian, me and savelfuser ruled together and it worked out fine. Then savelfuser went to loreroot and I decided to advise yrthilian, as I was too busy with RPC and mp6.
I am the frigging emperor of bunnies, you want potential? I give you the fact that since yrthilian no longer commands GG, is proof enough that potential is not the real issue here, it's proven conduct of the leader in the past.

If you want more potential and plans, then once yrthilian is de-throned, I will make a seperate topic and put it all there.
All of these questions are not the real issue.

And why will I not make this topic now?

[i][u]Because I am not arrogant enough to presume to know what Mur wants or will do.[/u][/i]
For all I know, Yrthilian will stay king and then that topic will become useless.

[Muratus del Mur]

you should read announcements more carefully before you make comments. The new voting system is supposed to be used from now on for such disputes and not just this situation. And yes my vote counts a lot, simple as that, never said its 51% or any given value. If you don't trust my judgement then what else can i say.

Its funny how people that slowly lose touch with MD come with comments so allknowing and with this attitude. You probably know about what is going on from one or the other friend thats still here and you hear the situation from that perspective only, look a bit over some topics you are pointed at and that's it. It seems to be a common practice lately to summon fosils in aid of current active events.


Everyday i find an additional reason for me to let you do freely what you want and take my hand off MD, your bad luck is that i care to much about it.

(and when i say YOU sometimes it means you all, so stop acting affected about the messages thing)

[smartalekrj]

i can assure you when I say YOU it means YOU, i dont know who ya'll is. Is there more than one of you? You shouldn't assume so much. I have read every single announcement twice which is why i am posting such things. you say i'm losing touch well thats hard to say either way, the fact that i'm posting about this would technically prove otherwise... My rl issues are keeping me from being on the computer, but that doesn't mean i am losing touch with anything. Calling me a fossil what does that make you? the Big Bang Theory? And you let enough people abuse MD so i'm not suprised about you walking away from it :-P

[Shadowseeker]

Hm. I only have one issue, that the vote is being taken outside of golemian hands as well, seeing as it is a golemian matter.

Since it's something affecting with global impact...well, I can see the reasons, still it's a bit weird, having people from other lands vote for it as well. politics.

Edit: grido's petition is missing, perhaps wrong link or not uploaded..idk.

I only see error 404, file missing.

Edited October 1, 2009 by Shadowseeker

[Muratus del Mur]

To stop talk about potential Kings, you should all know that in the event that Yrth gets de-throned , there will be a public voting with MORE THAN ONE CANDIDATE to the GG throne. I don't think its fair to pick one just on the reactions now during these events. There is also a possibility that GG will remain without a King. The discussions about a potential new ruler are for now not needed and will only expand this thread to more offtopic comments.

The realm grows, political systems inside MD evolve. If untill now picking a leader was based on individual evolution, adventure log or other non public reasons, whatever they were, it seems to me now that the politic system in the realm is requireing a more public vote. Even so, i consider this to be because the way we are used in RL where votes count by number and not by value, and we all know that in RL there are no more REAL leaders but voted leaders. I want to keep this feeling of value within the realm, a leader to be truly a leader, a LEGEND, and not some guy elected because he promised the best things for the future. Some leaders can't be changed, like ME, in case you didn't realised that, but others can, its just the matter of who can. A simple vote count from all your alts and unaware friends you can gather, will never change kings in MD.

(in case you keep forgetting i try to be neutral, or seeing both sides, what i just said has nothing to do with yrth or metal bunny but its a general view i have)

EDIT:
petiton was uploaded, sry for that.
@shadowseeker: thats why I will count votes, getting a vote from the enemy is not the same as getting a vote from one of yours. Only a human can decide that, not a count. And i assume that role.

[Shadowseeker]

Hm..vote issued, now I can't edit it anymore. Oh well.

I'm against him being forced to hand over the cube though: Even if it would be seen desirable by many, an item one possess cannot just be taken because so many people want it to happen, it would have to be proper RP. As for Necrovion access...her bidding to call for the shade sentinels help.

[Laz]

There seems to be 3 issues geting mixed up in the forum

1) the petision to have the king removed

2) IC discusion based on how people liked him as king and such...

3) was banishing his second ok IC


I feel these are 3 very diffrent issues. The pettision is at least in part an ooc mechnic and it is not asking to allow a story line/war/battle/ palace revolt.

Based on the full text of the pettition and the posts by the primarys in this forum I do not see how I can vote any way other than to reject the pettion.

Below is my reasoning........


While IC reasons have been given, based on the forum posts by the principles this petition is clearly based on RL issues not IC ones.

GG is a Kingdom, one without a magna carta or parliament. There was no IC requirement other then general good politics for the king to discuss the issue with anyone. The King ordered his second in command (the first of his vassals) to attack. Instead of attacking the person chose to try to be neutral due to RL friendships.

RL does sometimes effect game play, people have work, school etc and can not always make it to a scene. But that was not the case here. This was an in character decision to ignore if not betray ones king based on an out of character reason. Of course there should be consequences for such a betrayal. and banishment is a very reasonable one.

Next lets address the 2 IC reasons given:

1) The king was betrayed so obviously he should not be king.

This is idiotic, no kingdom, organization, country has existed that was not betrayed at some time. Just because there is a (or a group of) spy/turn coat, sell out, etc does not immediately mean the leadership should be replaced. And to advocate such is a case shows the extreme reach people are going to here.

2) Many reasons were listed why individuals do not like the kings leadership style or decisions. The petitioner uses this dislike to claim the king does not care for the land or people.

Again this does not make since. Unless you accept the argument that the only way you can love your country is to obey whatever is the most popular opinion at any given time. I understand many leaders have followed this style. but I personally disagree with it. in my mind a leader must do what they feel is best for the country even if popular opinion is against it.

Finally: it should be noted that this is not a petion to allow Girdo and his "powerful backer" to plot and Role play towards a palace revolt or to allow people to make a mass exodus from GG to show there disappointment. It is at least in part an Out of character attempt to remove someone from power who rightfully exiled a commander who abandoned his troops and country by making an IC decision based on ooc feelings about another player.

If Girdo truly has the support he claims he should have petitioned to for a fight/battle to take over GG himself, or for a story line where he and his supporters flee to necro and act as government in exile while they plot to retake GG form a king gone mad. Or he could have filed the petition before the fight and he was exiled.

Grido did not do any of these things. The raw facts as posted by the primarys are He betrays his king and country by not responding to a call for battled and was punished for this action. Now he is pissed that he got punished IC and wants the person who punished him IC to be removed via a OOC mechanism to me this makes no sense in terms of role play. Grido did not take action prior to the attack to take control of the kingdom or Stop the war, he has not taken action after the attack to request IC story line for a palace revolt or battle. Instead he has asked for the person that banished him to be bannished and all of his access be restored.

[Lifeline]

ok Metal Bunny fine if u can hold true what u said above and have done enough planning then i wont argue on this anymore. i had the impression u didnt. i myself just find it hard to believe for anybody being able to run 2 characters at the same time over a long period of time. yes wodin was very inactive but for me its hard to expect for a person who is king and rpc to invest much time in a second character. and this is my opinion of course but i dont think lag of time for the game should be held against a person only if he only logs in for several mins each day. yrth might have been inactive at times but whenever a situation called for it he showed initiative and did something about it. not like so many very influecial and high power players in the game who just keep hesistating and rarely take the initiative and actually react to a situation. but ok u say u can do it then i will trust in those words and drop that subject. and ur opinion on other lands having accomplished more well i cant change that anyway.

yrth has the strengh it needs to be king. as i said above he takes the initiative and acts without letting hesitation slow him down. he always appears as a strong figure knowing exactly what to do and in which direction to go. its what u want to see in a king. a king that is not a pushover that doesnt allow things that go against his will, the land or threatens the land. i only brought peace up because to me its the opposite. after the shade sentinel itself (the one they "pray" to) swears revenge on those who pillaged the land i would have expect her to take actions against that group and not let them be in peace. and i also wanted to use that argument to show that yrth did a good job. he took action against a threat he saw. if that was a wrong decision is another argument. what counts is that he did something about the situation and didnt just let it go.

why do i only argue about very recent events? because it all started with people complaining about yrth and lib first starting the war. then him burning khals soul and finally with him stripped grido of his powers. those were the 3 main arguments and those all happened in the last few days. what happened before was never mentioned much that is why i keep refering to those 3 subjects.

i never meant to attack anybody here i simply stated my impression on things. its also a way for me to recheck if i am correct about them or not and to form a final opinion over the matter at hand. i might use an offensive selection of sentences sometimes but that is to animate the offended side to reply and hopefully proof me wrong because i dont like the situation. i am happy u Metal Bunny replied with a detailed statement because now i can get a better picture of the situation.
i am not at all statisfied with the recent events in the realm and am rather disappointed about both sides. that is why i write kinda negatively atm.

[Udgard]

[quote name='Yrthilian' date='01 October 2009 - 07:45 PM' timestamp='1254401154' post='43404']
I knew at some point someone was going to bring this up.
This war did not happen because of a dislike i had wih Raven
As at the time i liked raven and had no persional issues.

[/quote]
Your word at that time
[quote]My aim is to remove the current leader[/quote]

[quote]The notice of attack LR was on the allaince and not the land at that time[/quote]
Your word at that time

[quote]So i have decided to declar WAR on Loreroot.

I have many reasions for this and i will not list them all.
But i intend to attack [b]LR lands[/b] soon and am declaring it here and now

ANY who back the [b]LR land[/b] will also be atacked[/quote]


And then this one?
[quote]and it was the other allaince withing the land that stated they will defend[/quote]
At that time, there was NO other alliance within the realm. The CoE and savelites were guilds of the GotR, not a separate entity. It has been clarified countless of times, yet it seems that it's still ignored.

My point? I'm doubting your ability to judge things correctly and act for the best interest of Golemus. LR was an ally of the Guerillas back then. Yet, you broke the treaty and chose to rid Golemus of an ally. You declared war on a LAND and won't correct your wording despite constant plea. No, it's not something trivial. You made extra enemies for Golemus that would otherwise not be because you chose to attack the LAND - something that can be avoided easily if you had corrected the statement of you target. But no, you won't bother to do it. You admit that it could have been handled better, but it seems that once you decide something, you won't bother to change it even when you're wrong. You, as the king of Golemus, showed no respect to other land alliance's sovereignity and structure by constantly ignoring the clarification made that GotR, CoE, and savelites were one entity (by consent of their founders) and claiming them as separate entities. You made a gesture that said "I don't care how you choose to organize yourself or what you think, the correct thing is what [b]I[/b] thing you are". Is this action for the best benefit of Golemus? Is this how you think the people of Golemus want to be perceived as?




[quote]I'm against him being forced to hand over the cube though: Even if it would be seen desirable by many, an item one possess cannot just be taken because so many people want it to happen, it would have to be proper RP[/quote]
I agree with shadow on this one. Despite what happens, that item is yrth's, it should not be taken away from him just because people want it to happen.

[cryxus]

I wanted to reply on Grido's petition in which he states this of Yrth

[quote]Should he be deposed, I would ask the following things to happen to him; his GG Gate access should be removed, along with the spells related to Golemus (I intentionally leave him with Fort and Deep access, though I suppose I could request that as well), he would also require a tag change. Peace has also requested a couple of things, and as punishment for bad reign, I support them; Necrovion access removed, and the Last side of the Cube of Khalazdad be handed over to her, so that the thing he did to cause so many people turn against him is made pointless, his selfish desire, now evident, the object of them being removed.[/quote]


I think it is inane to allow such bleeding of knowledgable, and influential supports of GG. First you, and now him? how does that help ANYTHING? Just because you felt personally affronted does not make it right to call for an exile of the king. Perhaps the people find him unfit to make their descisions, but that does not make him unworthy to be an asset to GG. Why not try to better GG? it's like killing the patient to cure a disease.

As for what Peace calls out for, that makes sense, Yrth is not of Necro and has affronted them in horrendous ways, but c'mon, think rationally, and make practical descisions... I think if Yrth were exiled from GG it would be no better than what happened to you, except done in a more bitter fashion.

I say even if he is dethroned he deserves a place in GG, as do you Grido. Perhaps you two don't see eye to eye, but if everyone thought and felt the same, well then life would just suck.

Please, this is a call for betterment of GG, not a call to destroy all it's assets in public fashion, open your eyes to what is practical, not just what you want.


~Captain Cryxus X'hal

P.S. I don't think that anyone has the right to force Yrth to hand over his cube, it's his personal property... are the MD police gonna shake him down as he steps off the throne? as for access to necro i can understand that being taken away, and how it is within her ability to do so.

Edited October 1, 2009 by cryxus

[Czez]

My current alliance is based in the Underground, but I am still a Golemian. I joined Cryxus' crew my first week in the realm, and my home has always been the sea, so I consider the Island also my homeland.

I have not always been comfortable with Yrth's actions, but as he is my King, I never felt it was my place to question him.
As a former member of GG alliance, my loyalties were tested in the Troubles with Loreroot. And eventually I left that alliance due to personal comflict with it's leadership, but with Grido, and not Yrth, regarding Lightsage's banning.

I've voted here to keep Yrth as King of Golemus, because I don't like the way this all has unfolded. He deserved a more honourable coup, if he is to be deposed.

Cap'n Cryxus has it right in all sides on this, and I'll support his leadership in any event. I also agree that both Grido and Yrth should be allowed to mantain an association with the land, as they both have served it well for a long time.

I have to say, however, that the war and all of these relaated events are really disheartening, especially to newer players. What might have been interesting rp now feels like so much petty personal squabbles among RPCs and older players. You guys ruin the game for the rest of us. And the injury is magnified now with the festival being cancelled just to give y'all more attention. There is no justice and no reward for honest players.

[Shadowseeker]

Actually, honesty does have a reward: The belief unto one's own mind.

As long as you believe into yourself, you shall not waver.

But we#re going offtopic.

[Yrthilian]

Ok

I dont really know what to say here.
I am flying out in the morning and i guess i wont know the result for
about a week.

But in IF i am still king when i return I will do things diffrent
that i am sure of. I see that some of my actions have been deemed
unliked and people were not happy. But also how does one know
if people are not happy if they dont say anything.

I have always made it known that people can say what the wish even advise on
anyissue they have. I even called many a meeting and even open up 5 diffrent
was to comtact me even when i am not in the realm of MD.

But well apparently i made it in a way that said dont speak with me of any issues.

I would also like to point out after "informing Powerfull others" og what i was
planning on doing with khals soul there was NO objection in fact there was laughter
at the idea and what came accross an agreed that this was a good corse of action.

Also for MB who says that i didnt comunicat with him, I tried many time over the last
sevrial month but never got a responce not once. If this is how you work and help in advisment
i can only imagen how bad you would be at comunicating with the people of the land.

Sorry but i am human and i do get frustrated over what people say and that the come moaning and crying
when someone make a bold move and say this that and the other when they them selfs did nothing about it

Now at this point i will shut up and let what happens happen
if i am removed so be it. I will move on to make it upto the land of Golemus
If i am still king then i will make sure to work harder to please thous i have upset.

So now i suppose all i can do is wait and see.
Have fun all with the festival of pain
(i so wanted to be a zombie lepper )

[cryxus]

Just for the record, though many of you may consider me one of the main GG people, I think he is refering to the alliance people and Grido. I have never been contacted about any of these meetings, not that i am saying i should have been, just adding that there for clearification so people dont get any false impressions.

Thanks,

~Cryxus

Edited October 1, 2009 by cryxus

[Grido]

[quote]You are of course entitled to your opinion. I would like to know exactly what powers were removed. I know there was the teleportation to Golemus, which as king (regardless of being and RPC or not) it is understandable for Yrhilian to be able to revoke, but were there other powers taken away?[/quote] I had the Gate access removed, also sendtolighthouse spell, and key-gg_deep spell.

[quote]Instead he has asked for the person that banished him to be bannished and all of his access be restored.[/quote] I mentioned nowhere that Yrth should be banished or exiled, I am asking for his access to be removed, he is still free to be there if he gets there through the lab, i felt this fair as when my position was removed, i lost the same. I also at no point asked for my access to be restored, though of course i would like that.

[quote] I think if Yrth were exiled from GG it would be no better than what happened to you, except done in a more bitter fashion.

I say even if he is dethroned he deserves a place in GG, as do you Grido. Perhaps you two don't see eye to eye, but if everyone thought and felt the same, well then life would just suck.[/quote]Again, no exile, or banishment words were used against him, i would however consider my exile over should Yrth be deposed.

[quote]P.S. I don't think that anyone has the right to force Yrth to hand over his cube, it's his personal property...[/quote] Request has already been denied, no further talk about it is required.

[quote]And eventually I left that alliance due to personal comflict with it's leadership, but with Grido, and not Yrth, regarding Lightsage's banning.[/quote] I don't believe that a circumstance that has nothing to do with the leadership of GG, in any way, should be brought into this. My clear statement regarding Lightsage, you did not like, that's fair, you're entitled to that, and you not liking me, that's also fair. But relating my talking about why Lightsage was banned to any sort of leadership skills i may or may not have isnt right.

[quote]And the injury is magnified now with the festival being cancelled just to give y'all more attention.[/quote]What festival was cancelled? the festival of pain, was going to be a festival of pain long before any of this, and besides, it's not been cancelled.

[quote]I would also like to point out after "informing Powerfull others" og what i was planning on doing with khals soul there was NO objection in fact there was laughter at the idea and what came accross an agreed that this was a good corse of action.[/quote]Whilst i knew something would happen with Khalazdad i knew no specifics, nor did i realise that he would use a deadline of an hour (one that Peace was impossible to manage) before doing this.

[Czez]

[quote name='Grido' date='01 October 2009 - 11:22 PM' timestamp='1254428576' post='43455']
I don't believe that a circumstance that has nothing to do with the leadership of GG, in any way, should be brought into this. My clear statement regarding Lightsage, you did not like, that's fair, you're entitled to that, and you not liking me, that's also fair. But relating my talking about why Lightsage was banned to any sort of leadership skills i may or may not have isnt right.[/quote]

It is exactly relevant, and why I've posted in this thread. I don't dislike you, and I've no opinion on that. But I did lose faith in your leadership skills, whether you were actually a member of the alliance then or not. I saw then just as now in this matter that your judgment is clouded and your sense of justice skewed, and you don't seem to care who else suffers for it.

Both you and Yrth are part of Golemus, Grido, and your personal issues are harming the island and the community.

[edited for typing]

Edited October 1, 2009 by Czez