Offshoot from;

[Muratus del Mur]

I woke up on the wrong side of the bed....

[quote name='Blackthorn']
As a note outside of character...I am rather dismayed at the poor and neglected condition I have found the game to be in since I returned...I have seen so few new players and even fewer active veterans. Part of the problem as I see it, is due to there being very little to role-play about. I understand Mur that you have a great need to control us for your own purpose...but I still do not understand why. You have Imagination as one of the principles of this realm, but we are told not to express it in this way or in that. The sheer number of Rules is astounding, and to be honest, I do not have the time to keep up with them all. Imagination is about freedom not control. So why so much control and intimidation? I am not writing this to disparage you but to ask in an open an honest way, why? Why can we not just play the way we want, however we want. I have read what you have written about the subject, and more...still I do not understand you or your need to control us. Why do we need kings, or a jail...not that I don't like this one...could use some curtains though, and a window to go with it...? I understand you are behind it all, but I still cannot understand your motives. At least I hope I do not...for I am acting under the assumption that you want the game to succeed. From what I see however, it seems to be dying.
[/quote]

As much as i wish to stay and just look at what the result of this will be, i have to answer when you derail from the subject by using myself and "how bad md became" neverending excuse to "make a point".
If you plan to reply me and continue this rant about how bad my influence is on md, please do so in a separate thread so that we can discuss it without using this side topic to hide the real discussion here, about LR.
[b](mods pls split this if it continues)[/b]



[quote name='Blackthorn']...I have seen so few new players and even fewer active veterans..[/quote]

You will be surprised why. First of all, the financial situation prevents me from keeping any onstant advertisig for md, except on the sites that i own. In better time i would flood the internet with ads, but now i can't.
Second, the few new that come every day, end up in a network of fake friends that slowly start to intoxicate them about how annoying md actualy is and in a day or two they are invited to continue talks on yahoo or other messengers where that imagination you talk about is unrestricted.
Third, and i have to say this even if it will be taken as an official position to a "community driven project", GGG killed it and astral plane took it in a alternate reality...WITHOUT intending to do so at all....(i had to say it)


[quote name='Blackthorn']...very little to role-play about..[/quote]

It is your lack of involvement that creates very little to role-play about. The moment you expect someone to give you something to rp about you can stay aside and watch other players that FIND something to rp about. If you stay outside md, you only see the things that have little to do with rp.

[quote name='Blackthorn']...I understand Mur that you have a great need to control us for your own purpose...but I still do not understand why..[/quote]

You make it sound as if i am some sort of puppet master. If i wanted a puppet theater i had one by now. The things i want to control are the neverending rants and bitching about how bad md is, and the intoxication of new players by a certain group, just because they run out of veteran players to brainwash, ..ooppss...i used same word as you did some time ago.

[quote name='Blackthorn']Why do we need kings, or a jail[/quote]

That answers your previous concern..you need them so you have something to ROLE-PLAY about. You also need them because freedom without order is generally called chaos. Thats actually some peoples problem here, they wants freedom, they want to do whatever they like, but without caring of the others. When they cant do that, they move to separate chats, or go and do it outside of md, then return and complain "how bad md became while they were away"

[quote name='Blackthorn']I understand you are behind it all, but I still cannot understand your motives[/quote]

Of course i am behind it all, didn't you knew that Yrth, Firs, Jester and Lifeline are all my alts? I am the evil tomato trying to controll all lands, its obvious. Md doesn't even exist, its just an illusion. I enjoy waking up in the morning and pull my hair out for whatever new scandal pops up. Seriously speaking, you don't understand my motives? I think you can just say you don't understand my involvement first, then say you don't understand my motives for that involvement. You assume i want to control all, just because the things that happen don't go in the direction you like them to go? This kind of mentality is an educated form of cowardness. Face the facts, handle what is happening, and stop blaming a greater force for it. If I want something in the realm, I do it, i dont need excuses.

Ontopic:
don't mistaken my support to firs and the answers against princ with a persoal friendship relationship or hate or such with any of them. I represent the higher authority the kings rely on. I respect them as leaders, because they earned their throne. I respect their citizens because they mean MD. My only problem is that ONE CITIZEN does not balance ONE KING. A king is a king because the majority of his people elected him for that. I can't allow a king to fail because he doesn't have the support or tools to rule his people and because one or the other abuse this lack of tools. (for example untill now there was no way for kings to punish citizens).

Edited June 9, 2010 by Muratus del Mur
added line about fewer players, on top

[Guest]

[quote]Nowhere in your own definition of "citizen" do you state one must obey the king and every word that he utters. Nowhere did I find published the "rule of the Land" or the "rules of citizenship". I spoke out [b]not[/b] against Loreroot, but against the actions of a man not worthy to be king. No where do I incite others to attack Loreroot. I swore fealty to Rhaegar...never to you, and I serve the people of Loreroot, and the Savelite church. Not you...and I have vowed to protect it. Not you...and that is what we are doing...protecting the land and supporting its people, all of its people, not just the ones you like, from an enemy posing as our king. I have committed no acts of treason.
[/quote]

So where have you been for the last year? How have you been actively protecting the land during this time? You abandoned Loreroot a long time ago, and suddenly you arrive back.. spouting the same embittered nonsense that you did before you left. You have returned simply because you still hold a grudge over this imagined betrayal. Would it surprise you to learn that Firsanthalas was trying to get yrthilian to lay off Raven? I suppose you wouldn't believe that as it is not compatible with what has been clearly going round your head for the past year. Where is Raven in all this? You are using his name to attempt to get power.. should he not be called in to back you up?

[quote]I think not. Oh yes I know there was an election...but with the threat from Golemus [b]looming[/b], should the people of Loreroot elect the "wrong person" to the throne. [/quote]

The Kingship election happened SIX MONTHS after the end of the LR/GG war.

[quote]Rhaegar learned of your treachery when he was researching the LR history. You have disliked him ever since and stood in his way, time and time again, to bring about positive changes and activities to LR and its people. Just as you have stood in the way of others. That is why you attack him and why he was forced by your tyranny to stand up and say "enough." You may hold the position...but you are no King. It is time for a change. [/quote]

Who did he hear this LR history from? You and Logan?

[quote]Fearful of every action Rhaegar and the satellites take...you demand to know everything we do within our own alliance...(no you may not read savel's preacher book to see if you like it or not).[/quote]

Fearful? I doubt it. If Firsanthalas has been thinking the same as the rest of us that were a part of the damage limitation caused by the real troublemakers of that time, he was probably as amused as I was to see Logan in the Savellites. Now you suddenly appear and help start causing trouble. Don't you think that those of us who remember can see this for exactly what it is?

[quote]You spend your time and effort insuring your position ever fearful of those around you, instead of working to better your lands and people. [/quote]

A perfect piece of propaganda, very emotive.. and misguided. Just because he is not working to YOUR idea of what LR should be, it doesn't mean it is wrong. The repetition of the word 'fearful' is also interesting. Is that what is actually true or the image you have built up inside your head?

[quote]We, and there are many of us Firsan, do not bring war upon Loreroot, or its people, or any of it's alliances. We are coming for you. [/quote]

I suggest those who follow you (and yes I mean you and the other 'spirit of the past', not Rhaegar) find out a little more about what was happening behind the scenes all that time ago before staking their reputations on an action urged on by paranoid trouble makers. Blackwood, who I respect and have a great deal affection for, has already had his name tarnished for simply wanting to be loyal to his friend. Rhaegar refers to Firsanthalas in the other thread as a puppet King, anyone with any sense can see who is the real puppet in this situation.

[quote]As a note outside of character...[/quote]

You have already referred to Firsanthalas as a 'RL friend' of Yrthilian. There is no distinction between Blackthorn and Jon here.


[quote]I am rather dismayed at the poor and neglected condition I have found the game to be in since I returned...I have seen so few new players and even fewer active veterans. Part of the problem as I see it, is due to there being very little to role-play about. I understand Mur that you have a great need to control us for your own purpose...but I still do not understand why. You have Imagination as one of the principles of this realm, but we are told not to express it in this way or in that. The sheer number of Rules is astounding, and to be honest, I do not have the time to keep up with them all. Imagination is about freedom not control. So why so much control and intimidation? I am not writing this to disparage you but to ask in an open an honest way, why? Why can we not just play the way we want, however we want. I have read what you have written about the subject, and more...still I do not understand you or your need to control us. Why do we need kings, or a jail...not that I don't like this one...could use some curtains though, and a window to go with it...? I understand you are behind it all, but I still cannot understand your motives. At least I hope I do not...for I am acting under the assumption that you want the game to succeed. From what I see however, it seems to be dying.
[/quote]

You still do not understand? Having imagination as a principle does not automatically imply that anyone taking part in Mur's project can do whatever they like to change the basic story and meaning of MD to fit their own ends. I was sorry to hear from one of your friends all that time ago that you spent a long time creating something wonderful that ultimately didn't fit with what Mur wanted, you are a talented artist and have a vivid imagination. It is a shame you abandonded it rather than looking to adapt your work.

My opinion on this is that if Mur wants to run down the number of participants in his game/project so that only he remains, good luck to him. The people who actually took part in MD and understood it, even just in part, will be happy to have done so and will remember it fondly.

NB In case any think I am a 'Firsite', I would like to state that I do not care who leads Loreroot.. you could vote for a piano playing Gibbon who smokes a pipe for all I care.. as long as said Gibbon is not being influenced or led by people who are well established troublemakers who helped to bring a great deal of heartache and division to the realm in days gone by (in character and out).

In the hope that people learn from history and do not repeat it,

Ailith

Edited June 9, 2010 by Guest

[Blackthorn]

[quote name='Muratus del Mur' date='09 June 2010 - 02:00 AM' timestamp='1276074059' post='61425']
I woke up on the wrong side of the bed....



As much as i wish to stay and just look at what the result of this will be, i have to answer when you derail from the subject by using myself and "how bad md became" neverending excuse to "make a point".
If you plan to reply me and continue this rant about how bad my influence is on md, please do so in a separate thread so that we can discuss it without using this side topic to hide the real discussion here, about LR.
[b](mods pls split this if it continues)[/b]





You will be surprised why. First of all, the financial situation prevents me from keeping any onstant advertisig for md, except on the sites that i own. In better time i would flood the internet with ads, but now i can't.
Second, the few new that come every day, end up in a network of fake friends that slowly start to intoxicate them about how annoying md actualy is and in a day or two they are invited to continue talks on yahoo or other messengers where that imagination you talk about is unrestricted.
Third, and i have to say this even if it will be taken as an official position to a "community driven project", GGG killed it and astral plane took it in a alternate reality...WITHOUT intending to do so at all....(i had to say it)




It is your lack of involvement that creates very little to role-play about. The moment you expect someone to give you something to rp about you can stay aside and watch other players that FIND something to rp about. If you stay outside md, you only see the things that have little to do with rp.



You make it sound as if i am some sort of puppet master. If i wanted a puppet theater i had one by now. The things i want to control are the neverending rants and bitching about how bad md is, and the intoxication of new players by a certain group, just because they run out of veteran players to brainwash, ..ooppss...i used same word as you did some time ago.



That answers your previous concern..you need them so you have something to ROLE-PLAY about. You also need them because freedom without order is generally called chaos. Thats actually some peoples problem here, they wants freedom, they want to do whatever they like, but without caring of the others. When they cant do that, they move to separate chats, or go and do it outside of md, then return and complain "how bad md became while they were away"



Of course i am behind it all, didn't you knew that Yrth, Firs, Jester and Lifeline are all my alts? I am the evil tomato trying to controll all lands, its obvious. Md doesn't even exist, its just an illusion. I enjoy waking up in the morning and pull my hair out for whatever new scandal pops up. Seriously speaking, you don't understand my motives? I think you can just say you don't understand my involvement first, then say you don't understand my motives for that involvement. You assume i want to control all, just because the things that happen don't go in the direction you like them to go? This kind of mentality is an educated form of cowardness. Face the facts, handle what is happening, and stop blaming a greater force for it. If I want something in the realm, I do it, i dont need excuses.

Ontopic:
don't mistaken my support to firs and the answers against princ with a persoal friendship relationship or hate or such with any of them. I represent the higher authority the kings rely on. I respect them as leaders, because they earned their throne. I respect their citizens because they mean MD. My only problem is that ONE CITIZEN does not balance ONE KING. A king is a king because the majority of his people elected him for that. I can't allow a king to fail because he doesn't have the support or tools to rule his people and because one or the other abuse this lack of tools. (for example untill now there was no way for kings to punish citizens).
[/quote]


Why do you attack me and berate me? you put words in my mouth like you know what I am thinking...and you do not. I was not criticizing you, nor was I disparaging MD. I was honestly voicing my consern over the condition of things in game. If you would bother to look before Attacking me...you would see that I am supporting the game (financially). and before you fire back that my pittance means nothing to you...let me say I was asking honest questions and voicing honest conserns and supporting the game as best I can....I should know better than to be conserned for you or try to help. as for the rest you took it out of context.

If you can actually discuss things without personal attacks, I would welcome an opportunity to discuss with you what can be done to help Md in these difficult times. Even if you are an evil tomatoe..you do have friends here and support...which is what my note was about. my consern for you and md and my inquiry about the direction the game sems to be going in. sometimes a person can be too close to something to really see it. You taught us that...remember? perspective...If you and MD need help...all you have to do is ask. there are plenty of us here willing to help.

[Indyra]

""all you have to do is ask"" What makes you think that you have the smallest idea about how this game should be ?..you support it because you wish to and because you gain certain facillities from doing that, nobody makes you to! Point put a single game that allows to advice the game creator what he should next ? i think you are taking things out of game so you should stick to in-games matters because all the consequences you're suffering are from in-game actions.

[Blackthorn]

[quote name='Lady Ailith' date='09 June 2010 - 02:14 AM' timestamp='1276074874' post='61426']
So where have you been for the last year? How have you been actively protecting the land during this time? You abandoned Loreroot a long time ago, and suddenly you arrive back.. spouting the same embittered nonsense that you did before you left. You have returned simply because you still hold a grudge over this imagined betrayal. Would it surprise you to learn that Firsanthalas was trying to get yrthilian to lay off Raven? I suppose you wouldn't believe that as it is not compatible with what has been clearly going round your head for the past year. Where is Raven in all this? You are using his name to attempt to get power.. should he not be called in to back you up?



The Kingship election happened SIX MONTHS after the end of the LR/GG war.



Who did he hear this LR history from? You and Logan?



Fearful? I doubt it. If Firsanthalas has been thinking the same as the rest of us that were a part of the damage limitation caused by the real troublemakers of that time, he was probably as amused as I was to see Logan in the Savellites. Now you suddenly appear and help start causing trouble. Don't you think that those of us who remember can see this for exactly what it is?



A perfect piece of propaganda, very emotive.. and misguided. Just because he is not working to YOUR idea of what LR should be, it doesn't mean it is wrong. The repetition of the word 'fearful' is also interesting. Is that what is actually true or the image you have built up inside your head?



I suggest those who follow you (and yes I mean you and the other 'spirit of the past', not Rhaegar) find out a little more about what was happening behind the scenes all that time ago before staking their reputations on an action urged on by paranoid trouble makers. Blackwood, who I respect and have a great deal affection for, has already had his name tarnished for simply wanting to be loyal to his friend. Rhaegar refers to Firsanthalas in the other thread as a puppet King, anyone with any sense can see who is the real puppet in this situation.



You have already referred to Firsanthalas as a 'RL friend' of Yrthilian. There is no distinction between Blackthorn and Jon here.




You still do not understand? Having imagination as a principle does not automatically imply that anyone taking part in Mur's project can do whatever they like to change the basic story and meaning of MD to fit their own ends. I was sorry to hear from one of your friends all that time ago that you spent a long time creating something wonderful that ultimately didn't fit with what Mur wanted, you are a talented artist and have a vivid imagination. It is a shame you abandonded it rather than looking to adapt your work.

My opinion on this is that if Mur wants to run down the number of participants in his game/project so that only he remains, good luck to him. The people who actually took part in MD and understood it, even just in part, will be happy to have done so and will remember it fondly.

NB In case any think I am a 'Firsite', I would like to state that I do not care who leads Loreroot.. you could vote for a piano playing Gibbon who smokes a pipe for all I care.. as long as said Gibbon is not being influenced or led by people who are well established troublemakers who helped to bring a great deal of heartache and division to the realm in days gone by (in character and out).

In the hope that people learn from history and do not repeat it,

Ailith
[/quote]

in that post I signed the game play as BlackThorn...and the side note to mur as me...jon. this feels more like a personal attack on me...not a game play so I will answer it as myself.

Again Lady Ailth you attack me without understanding me. You call me a trouble maker and say that all of this is because of me. I had thought to put the YM chat up of the last time you accused me of being such a monster...but I will not. we parted as friends that time...I cannot understand why you now think me your enemy. I am sorry you have such a low opinion of me. I hope that is not how all of you the community of MD sees me. If so...please ask me to leave and I will. I came to play not to cause trouble.

As for the reasons I left MD...there were many...nelya had quit and Savel...and the game was not as important for me without them. also I could see that I had upset Mur in some way with the projects nelya and savel and I were working on. If he had simply spoken to me about them and explained I would have gladly revised them. MRD and I had some misunderstandings and I lost my temper...which I rarely ever do...and that bothered me alot. For that I do blame myself. to be honest it was a rough time for me. oh well I have come this far so i might as well just say it...though I would appreciate that no one comment to me about this subject. It is not something I wish to speak on.

the main reason...and I have kept this to myself...is that I became sick again and was going to go through some long and painful treatments. I decided that I did not wish to share that with any of you...perhaps that was selfish...but it was my decision all the same...the treatments are over and I am well again... and mostly still intact...though I am missing a few more of my parts...I think that is why I lost my temper with MRD...something I still regret a great deal.

and yes BlackThorn is different from Jon. I attack Firsan as BlackThorn and not as Jon...I have no problems with B***y K***Y, whom I consider a friend. I do not use his full name because I am not sure he would want me to. he is my enemy in game because he is Rhaegars enemy in game, and Blackthorn swore a blood oath to follow Rhaegar. I am not pulling any strings...I am barely in the game at all.

my note to Mur should have been placed elswhere. my appologies. and since Yrth and Firsan had refered to rl friendship in context to their charecters...I felt that it was appropriate to do the same within my role. I am not sure how you see me as BlackThorn or as Jon since you seem to mix the two up...so this is just me...jon... I am a simple taoist who sees the world for what it is as best I can. I niether seek nor do I run from confrontation. I have faced Cancer twice in my life after watching it take the lives of both of my parents and one of my siblings. I am no coward. and Mur you were wrong to name me as such. Jon is also no ones enemy here..and I am very sorry to have to explain this to you. If you don't like me..ok so you don't like me...I can live with that. My efforts were ever to contribute to MD... not to disparage it. If I am not welcome here, say so..

[Blackthorn]

[quote name='Indyra' date='09 June 2010 - 03:28 AM' timestamp='1276079313' post='61431']
""all you have to do is ask"" What makes you think that you have the smallest idea about how this game should be ?..you support it because you wish to and because you gain certain facillities from doing that, nobody makes you to! Point put a single game that allows to advice the game creator what he should next ? i think you are taking things out of game so you should stick to in-games matters because all the consequences you're suffering are from in-game actions.
[/quote]


I was talking about the problems Mur is facing with finances. something I happen to know a great deal about.

[Muratus del Mur]

As much as i wish to reply to several affirmations above, i wont because its already to much offtopic.

- "Lets help md, just ask.." - honestly, personal feelings that try me when i read such lines, from you or others, ..i feel like ripping your heads off... I am trying to keep an official stand and be polite , as Mur, but i am kind of empty of anymore politeness now. MD is not an [i]invalid[/i] that needs your help and your favors. The only "help" it needs is to have people that stop pity it and look with superiority as if they know anything about it. MD is a machinery, not even me know everything about it, how could anyone. The people that play it, with or without financially supporting it, those are the ones that really help it. Those that pity it and come from time to time to complain that md needs help, they are the ones that destroy it, by bringing down the moral of others, pretending "they know".

This is not a persoanl attack on you BT, it is a general attack against all of those similar in beliefs with you, including you, because you people pop up from time to time when your friends in md call for your help and then pretend "you know" even if you lost contact with whats going on for a long time, prefering to stay in your own version of what you think its md. Like i said, i am done with politeness. In fact I lost part of my patience back then with the Amoran conflict, that was in fact initiated by YOU, through Logan, then amoran ended up the black sheep voicing your fancy ideas.


[b]Regarding Blackwoodforest , I will revert his status later today, by demand of the king. Only thing I ask is for the kings not to play to much with this excummunication/reverting back thing. Think twice before acting once.[/b]

[Blackthorn]

I am glad it is not personal, because it is not personal to me either. It is a Game, and I come only to play and spend time with friends. You were the one who said we shape this game and make it what it is. I understand that means the whole community, but I am also a part of that community, am I not? Or is leaving for a time and then returning make me something less? I do not know. I have been out of the game for a long time, but I do not “pretend I know” anything about what has been going on. That is not to say I am blind and deaf and dumb, or that I don’t care. I certainly do not know the problems you face every day, nor was I pretending I did.

I cannot see you, Md, or anything, from a truly objective view point because it is me who is seeing it. I can strive for objectivity. Strive to see from another person’s point of view, but in the end, no matter how far into another person’s view point I seek to go, I cannot ever fully remove the subjective “me”. And so what I Believe is all there really is. This does not make it true, only true to me, to my point of view. So when you say I stay in my version of what I think MD is, of course you are right…but I Believe that is true of all of us. I can never know what it is to be you, just as you can never know what it is to be me. We can use language and pictures to communicate, we can struggle with one another and share Ideas. But ultimately we will always view the world around us according to our own subjective reality and the framework of our own personal experiences.

You have referenced some things that I said about you and MD but you have used them out of context. So I will try to place them within the framework of my experience. A good friend told me today that misunderstandings are most often due to a lack of communication, and I would agree with that.
I was told by a veteran player when I first began playing MD, that the whole Game was just an experiment to test your Ideas, and that all the players were nothing more to you than test subjects. I did not take much stock in the Idea at that time but as my view and experience of MD grew I began to see some things that led me to believe that not only was it possible, I believed it was true. That alone did not invalidate the experience, nor make my friendship with other players any less valuable. So I saw no problem with participating. After all It was still for me just a game.

It was then suggested, by you Mur, that there were players who played this game on different levels most of the players of Md would never understand and never be able to achieve. This intrigued me, and so I began to observe more closely how you and certain other players” played” the game. And some interesting patterns began to appear. I saw that you would make certain changes and then sit back and see what consequences came from those changes. I saw other players do the same. So I too sought to play at that level. But I would do it in my own way….
I saw (and this is my personal point of view) much that was designed into the game to be based upon personal gain and achievement and many aggressive emotions like greed and self interest. I sought to influence the game to create systems that would encourage personal achievement through self sacrifice and service to others. And so I sought you out in marinds toilet, of all places, and asked that you allow us in Loreroot to create a NPC character god that could act as a Wodin like player that the leaders of that land would be able to play, and a religion based on that character, that players could choose to worship like a MP6 by sacrificing heat to. Obviously, for this we would require your assistance to create the mechanism.

If you remember your initial reaction to the idea of a religion was negative but then you saw possibilities in a MP6 NPC system…and so you told us to go ahead and work on it but that we would have to wait until you had the time, to implement it… I know you know all this, and so this part is mostly for the sake of those who will read this.
We did create a religion based upon many ancient pagan beliefs. There were many who worked on the project, though I will not list them here as I do not wish to cause them trouble. We continued to work on it as we waited for you, and then I had the idea of tying in the “ancient histories” as you later called them, into the whole back story of our god who we named Root. I understand that this has become a huge point of contention to you, but we did not do it to cause you trouble, we acted on what we thought was a sanctioned project. If we had known, if you had said something, but of course you had no way of knowing…or if we had been able to speak to you, which at the time was very difficult because you were so busy, you had declared yourself off limits to almost everyone, we would have removed that part of it altogether had we known you would object. That is not a criticism, we all knew you were working on new things for us. It is just what happened.

Nelya had liked my ideas very early on and so implemented them into the leadership structure of Loreroot. A person was honored and given authority because of the service they did for others. What they did for themselves was its own reward. For a while it worked but without the mechanism to bring Root into the game, it began to fall apart as the emotions of self service and greed for power and position that were already supported by in game systems overpowered us. The alliance and council were a mess with everyone seeking to gain something for themselves. Bickering and backstabbing each other, became the loreroot national pastime.

Eden quit, then Nelya and then Savel. Things just got worse in game and for me personally with my illness, and the fight I had with MRD, the one person in game I might have told about what I was about to go through for the second time. ( That fight was entirely my fault and If MRD ever reads this, let me say I am deeply sorry I lashed out at you. I know you forgave me, but I am still deeply ashamed of how I acted.) Then I finally realized that no one wanted what I had proposed, not the members of Gotr, not the members of Loreroot, and not you. So I chose to quit. I even asked you to delete my character…but you did not.

As for the Logan and Amoran, they came to me after I had left in YM and asked me many questions about the game. And yes I told them my Beliefs about the game being an experiment to prove your ideas, the different levels of the game, and about how I had been told about it, and all I had seen for myself. I did not “Initiate” the resulting conflict between you and them. I am not responsable for what other people do. And as for my part, I was very sad to hear of it. I still see Md the same way. So again you are right. I still think you use it to test your ideas and that you and others are “"playing with us", not playing“"with"”us.

As for some of the phrases and negative comments that you referred to in your replies, most of them were spoken to individuals as a way for me to gauge how much I can trust them and what their motives are. I have to use negative comments, for most people love to tell on others. Ren once came to me believing I had betrayed him, and I had to explain this strategy. He repeated back the exact phrase I had spoken to a player not an hour before. Lol.
If you or anyone else does not believe this, check my papers, he even left a note there about it.

I have always done this in the game and even in my business and real life. Tell someone a Secret and use a good phrase, one that would not just pop up in a conversation, like "Mind Control", and see how long it takes to get back to you. You are not the only subject I use, I have used many others in game,…but let's face it..you are the obvious choice. Also the way that person responds to negative comments tells you a lot about that person, how they view authority, and conflict. People always resent those with power, and here in MD, you have all of it.

If you choose to blame me and hold me accountable, that is your choice. Choices are all we ever really have. We make the game what it is, and in the end, it is what it is, A GAME. I have always viewed you as an integral system within the game dynamic, a force for both positive and negative changes. I have also seen you as more than just the creator and owner of this game but as one of its chief players. I have tried many times and in many ways to engage you… I would love to debate you on the virtues of Order and Chaos.

Edited June 10, 2010 by Blackthorn

[Muratus del Mur]

Because it is a long post, i will answer only to the things that have a less obvious answer.


[quote]I was told by a veteran player when I first began playing MD, that the whole Game was just an experiment to test your Ideas, and that all the players were nothing more to you than test subjects.[/quote]

I don't say its not, in fact, i said that myself several times, in public, more like a joke, or less joke...yet, after 5 years of md, does it realy look like i am using _ANYONE AT ALL_ as a guinea pig for testing? MD is something i learn from, i am testing my ideas, but also learning new ones from what is happening. I am sometimes altering situations to see reactions, like giving someone full power to see how he reacts and whats the first thing he does with it. From this kind of LEARNING ..to say that MD players are NOTHING MORE THAT TEST SUBJECTS, its a long long distance. It offends me deeply, it makes me furious. I suppose you enjoyed events such as Christmas in md, or me drunk and having fun with people, considering me a cold maniac that sees you all as test subjects...sad
I consider md sort of my big big friends group,,,i dare to say even part of my family..hard yo explain you , now, why. People that know me in md, know what i mean, people close to me, know why. I will probably consider you a test subject from now, since that is what you think of me anyway.

Listen to this, because it applies outside Md... EVERYBODY is a test subject, but to learn something out of that "test" You need to respect and understand them first. I learn from anyone, you name them test subjects, i name them individual minds.

[quote]I saw (and this is my personal point of view) much that was designed into the game to be based upon personal gain and achievement and many aggressive emotions like greed and self interest. I sought to influence the game to create systems that would encourage personal achievement through self sacrifice and service to others.[/quote]

wow owow wow ..as much as i wanted to reply kindly to this post, because i went a bit to angry (more than you deserve) at first, this makes me angry. You think what is in md, from a gameplay point of view, is based on greed and self interest? I would say patience, curiosity, patience, adaptation, patience, respect, creativity but not madness, friends interaction, and a deep feeling of "collecting". Personal achievement , of course, but as you said about me, you took that out of context, a lot. You want self sacrifice and service to others? Do you realy not see it already? hmmm... i wont even bother to explain where to look, there are way to obvious example to be given here.


[quote]And so I sought you out in marinds toilet, of all places, and asked that you allow us in Loreroot to create a NPC character god that could act as a Wodin like player that the leaders of that land would be able to play, and a religion based on that character, that players could choose to worship like a MP6 by sacrificing heat to. Obviously, for this we would require your assistance to create the mechanism.

If you remember your initial reaction to the idea of a religion was negative but then you saw possibilities in a MP6 NPC system…and so you told us to go ahead and work on it but that we would have to wait until you had the time, to implement it…[/quote]


I was never narrow minded to say no to any good idea. But, what i always say, to anyone, is that you need to learn to use existing featues to achieve or materialise your idea. You will be surprised with how many people i talk, (IF they have anything to say and not just hi and question me about how was my morning). With you there was always a problem to communicate, always. You always asked others to tell me things you wanted me to know, almost never yourself. I thought you are shy, but you are not, so not sure what kept you to communicate with me. If i remember right, i explaiend to one , not sure who, but a big player, how your wishes could have been done using existing features.

While others managed to use the little things available to do miracles with them, you decided to wait and blame the system that is not providing you enough tools to create what you wanted.
The root god idea, is now the heat on clickables feature, so years after, i kept my path and did as i say to develop md incorporating interesting ideas that people sent me. Of course i cant do custom work for you so you can do your quests as you want, but so many managed to adapt to what it is, why couldnt you?


[quote]We continued to work on it as we waited for you, and then I had the idea of tying in the “ancient histories” as you later called them, into the whole back story of our god who we named Root. I understand that this has become a huge point of contention to you, but we did not do it to cause you trouble, we acted on what we thought was a sanctioned project. If we had known, if you had said something, but of course you had no way of knowing…or if we had been able to speak to you, which at the time was very difficult[/quote]


I am sorry to dissapoint you, but ancient lore is NOT what you wrote. What i define as ancient lore are aticles written by adi to explain things that he knew partially or that he made up based on things me and him discussed while talking about the story. In the "show of force" article , i explained who killed marind and why the ancient lore was so damaging, among other things.
What you did, and what many still continued after, was to incorporate in MD "ancient lore" stories of your own, that had nothing to do with the core story of md. There is a point for things in md to be as they are. Some people discover those reasons, and see the machinery behind md logic. You chose to build your own stories around it and consider them as part of that lore. Maybe now you realise the mistake.
My mistake was to ignore the importance and influence of such actions in time.


[quote]As for the Logan and Amoran, they came to me after I had left in YM and asked me many questions about the game. And yes I told them my Beliefs about the game being an experiment to prove your ideas, the different levels of the game, and about how I had been told about it, and all I had seen for myself. I did not “Initiate” the resulting conflict between you and them. I am not responsable for what other people do. And as for my part, I was very sad to hear of it. I still see Md the same way. So again you are right. [/quote]


I dont thing anyone with brain can be bad intended or have evil intentions against something like MD. Thats why i cant blame you for doing anything wrong on purpose, thats clear. Even with good intentions some things may end up in a tottaly wrong way, as you can see. Unfortualty intentions don't really matter when the conclusions and results of them are set.


[quote]I still think you use it to test your ideas and that you and others are “"playing with us", not playing“"with"”us.[/quote]

Does it change anything if i say you are right? ...i don;t think so. And i also don;t think that supposing that entitles you to judge me as a cold soul experimentalist. It is an idea taken out of context as you say. The fact i experiment my ideas in md, like the dna thing for example, doesn't change the fact that i care for people in md, as players and friends, and i care to understand them and learn from each one, from the most annoying, to the most villain, to the mindless noob, to the creative and smart veteran. About those that "PLAY WITH YOU"...i guess you should check the forum more, now you know they are nothing more than other players that earned their god status..always anonimous...like Tengri was.

The people you assume are playing with you in that way, are not people that use internet to much...so don;t worry, nobody is playing with you, but you DO play with yourselves and I do enjoy making you fall in your own assumptions...get my meaning.

MD is more deep than you realised it seems, and i dont talk about vast map locations and hidden features, i talk about its mechanics and how it works, above code.

Now a message only for you:
creativity is nothing without freedom, same way intelligence is nothing without respect for the reality. By seeing only your goals you missed the "reality" of the md world and so you being smart was not used to its full potential. You caused your own lack of freedom, and so, your creativity was admired only by the few that entered your wall. Same like the strongest warrior needs to learn respect, you need to learn something, its up to you.i wont say.