Golemus Training Grounds

[Yrthilian]

[center][color="#FF0000"]Basic Training Rules in Golemus[/color]

- Only by invite will you be allowed to use the training ground. (note: all Golemus people automatically get an invite).

- attacking rituals must deal no damage or lifesteal to single creatures or all creatures, or heal/regen your own creatures;

- as part of the invite process only 5 players at a time will be allowed into the training grounds this will be done on a rota bases.

- If you leave the training ground during training you will not be let back in until it is your turn again.

-This will be done on a rota basis so all Golemus people will get a chance to use the GTG. The roat will be for 5 days worth of training then you have to wait untill the others have had their training. then the rota will start agan.

[u]This is a test for the first run of the Golemus Training Grounds more rules may be added as time goes on.[/u]

[b]The purpose is to gain wins for your creatures without hurting the lib[/b]

[b]The Lib’s will also change from just wins to proper training as per there requirements as this is to also help the Lib’s in their legacy.[/b]
[/center]

(Edit to add new rule of rota system)

Edited June 20, 2010 by Yrthilian

[Chewett]

So, GGG was banned from having alts, wheras a king is making something so similar... With even more alts... Nice equality

[Yrthilian]

[quote name='Chewett' date='20 June 2010 - 10:27 AM' timestamp='1277026028' post='62313']
So, GGG was banned from having alts, wheras a king is making something so similar... With even more alts... Nice equality
[/quote]

yes i am making something similar as part of a solution.
you dont like it well that is your problem. The libs have a legacy to follow and they will follow it
If you have a problem with that well i dont care. This is a solution that works without proper abuse.
as i personaly dont gain from them. So i am not abuse the alt system as per the rules.

I have already spoken with thoes that needed to know and this is going ahead.
BTW this is only Phase one of the plan so you may not like what i do with phase 2.
but well you will see.

Edited June 20, 2010 by Yrthilian

[dst]

I am interested in how you'll choose the 5 players. Or they will be ONLY GG players?

[Yrthilian]

As stated above it is by invite only and Golemus people
are automaticaly invited. It will be keept to 5 people at a time
so it will be kept private as it will be in a non public location too.

When i have the forst 5 request i will then start the GTG.

I will also extend invites to the kingship people.
if they wish to use the GTG. Yes some people will get special
invites as per my whim to do so as this is my GTG.

this will also be done on a rota basis.

(Edit to remove invites to kingship)

Edited June 20, 2010 by Yrthilian

[Udgard]

[quote name='Yrthilian' date='20 June 2010 - 05:01 PM' timestamp='1277028108' post='62318']
yes i am making something similar as part of a solution.
you dont like it well that is your problem. The libs have a legacy to follow and they will follow it
If you have a problem with that well i dont care. This is a solution that works without proper abuse.
as i personaly dont gain from them. So i am not abuse the alt system as per the rules.

I have already spoken with thoes that needed to know and this is going ahead.
BTW this is only Phase one of the plan so you may not like what i do with phase 2.
but well you will see.
[/quote]
Actually, as GGG king, having a training ground in GGG benefits you, either directly or non directly. Maybe you're not using it yourself and therefore benefiting in terms of stats/wins, but it does benefit you. At the very least, if you're happy because your people prosper, that is technically benefiting you emotionally. There are other benefits of course, and I don't think I need to describe them here one by one.

But anyways, that's just technical definition. If you have spoken with those who need to know (I assume that includes Mur, as this could border around alt abuse), and Mur gives the go ahead, then I guess there would be no problem..

[Chewett]

[quote name='Yrthilian' date='20 June 2010 - 11:01 AM' timestamp='1277028108' post='62318']
The libs have a legacy to follow and they will follow it If you have a problem with that well i dont care.
[/quote]

The Libs have a history of abuse, But this was always allowed because "it was lib" Previously when someone set up similar in the Maze it was banned, But dont worry since this abuse is by a king so thats [i]Obviously[/i] ok...

[i]And again with GGG alts training isnt allowed, But here because its yrth its fine...[/i]

Alt abuse has always been punished severely, But i have always been peeved that Libs have been allowed to be abused wheras people who did exactly the same got banned.

[Amoran Kalamanira Kol]

I don't know what this legacy is, but all I remember of Liberty is that he has a history of abuse. I don't feel this kind of thing should be allowed, if it is not allowed in any other area including the GGG, it should not be allowed in Golemus even with the limitations you have set. By creating this training ground you will be benefiting your land, and thus yourself.

[Yrthilian]

you know i did write a long post but i removed it
I though it too insulting and done in anger.

So i will write another in a less angered tone
to explain what is ment of this training ground.

It will be something though that will go ahead.
in one way or another. So instead of saying
this is how it is going to be i am open to suggestion.

All i can say is the libs will get trained.

Edited June 20, 2010 by Yrthilian

[Yrthilian]

Ok i agree my approach on this subject was completly wrong
so in turn i am willing to try and find a better way.

he libs need to train. So if anyone is willing to put
a better way for them to do it please by all meens put it forward.

I am open to suggestions always am.

I am following a request to get the libs trainined up
and to try and have them carry out what they were created for
remember the libs are an army and an army has to train in one
form or another.

I understand i may be wrong to create the training ground for them
so i ask you for another way to train them.

Currently under the Alt abuse rules what i was creating is not alt abuse.
or at lest from my understanding of the rules. unless you can show me other wise.
I am not afraid to admit when i am wrong. but please just show the rules and how
it is beeing broken and i will do all i an to make sure it is not.

[lightsage]

As I see it:

By allowing people access to fort inneryard while libs are there is abuse. Because you can only do that and your main profits from it (by choosing who is allowed to go in and who is not)

By having the libs train on each other it's abuse as they profit from each other directly.

As for a "solution" I guess you could put up def rits and idle them in a publicly accessible location and hope they win some fight. Or actually play them separately and win some fights that way.

[Lifeline]

the alt abuse rule i know goes something like this:
[b]do not use alts to benefit ur main or any other account of urs[/b]

what does the alt tracker do? it prevents u from attacking ur own account. so that seems to be the major restriction.
yrth cant train on the libs and doesnt even want to. he cannot gain from the alts (the libs). so game rule wise this seems perfectly fine to me.

as to the incident in the maze where people got banned. that was because they used their own alts to train. they attacked there own and not somebody elses!
this is very different.

so next point: is it fine for golemus to have a private training ground?
why not? if u dont like that u are excluded complain to ur king or make an own. every mainland can easly copy this sort of training ground if they wanted to. they all have private locations.
yrth is setting up a system here that technically anybody could copy. if people dont copy it and dont get access to yrth its not his problem. yrth is the active person who actually creates something and all of u who complain about it only being for golemus people are in my eyes the lazy people who prefer destroying something before getting active themself and building a similar system.
[b]jester, firsan and me to name a few and cover all the mainlands could easly build a similar system so please stop complaining that its only a golemus thing. [/b]

i fail to see how this is a bad thing that needs to be destroyed. so far i got no single reason against it besides personal opinions on how alts should be treated. what was the main issue with the ggg? people didnt understand and learn anything and most of the action happened in some far away location. yrth already said this is limited to 5 people. so again very different in its essence. [b]is it that bad if 5 people are away from the realm for a few days to train?[/b] or better said does something have to get destroyed and shut down because YOU dont like it? (i am sorry if this might offend anybody but no clearly defined game rules get broken here)

PS: i am a little angry about the recent trend that every new creation needs to be shot down and destroyed. u all complain about action lagging in MD ...well surprise surprise all new ideas get killed by u who complain about it. why not build and CREATE something instead of only destroy?

[Yoshi]

Some questions:

MP limits?
Will alts be invited, or main accounts only?
What happens if a lib gets broken?
What happens if a person breaks them intentionally?
What happens if a person breaks another person there?
Are we allowed to attack each other?
If you don't like another that is there due to personal reasons, can you switch out with someone else?

[CrazyMike]

I feel only Mur has the final say on whether this is alt abuse.

It would be unfair for citizens to start training and get penalised later.

If Mur allows it, it would be interesting as it would set a precedent for other Kings to have the same setup.

Yrth,

It is a very interesting idea but with all due respect, please allow Mur to give the green light to avoid unnecessary complications later.

[Guest]

yrthilian and Lifeline, with all due respect to you both... and you know I do respect you both. I think the issue people have with this is not the training ground itself, I personally think each military land SHOULD provide a training ground for their soldiers. The issue is with the Lib army.

These alts were created, possible alt abuse was witnessed by people in the realm, and then came the justification that it's ok, because it was part of Liberty's character.

Now, romanticised as part of a 'legacy', the 'Lib Army' are open for a select group to go and train from. These were never established as characters in their own right, no individual voice, no ingame deeds. Just a tool for a select few to 'use'.

If this is indeed all good, then I would like to know something. Ailith has an established history of helping people, is it alright if I make a bunch of nameless, faceless alts to give to the other lands to mirror the Lib army with the excuse that 'it's in my character to do so'?

Let's say:

Ailith1-40 for Necrovion
Ailith41-80 for Loreroot
Ailith81-120 for Marind Bell
Ailith121-160 for Tribunal
Ailith161-200 for the underground
Ailith201-240 for MDA
Ailith241-280 for no-man's land (cause you never know..)

As long as I don't train from them, this should be alright, shouldn't it?

As I say, I am not saying this in disrespect to you.. more clarifying the actual problem people may be having with this.

[No one]

With all respect (that I can offer),
- GGG was created by MRD for MR use and they were forced to make it public so that they could use it
- This GG seems to be similar : Yrth for Lifeline's personal use and after they were caught ... they try to make it public
- making one training ground for each land ... it is only an invitation for abuse: LandX creates alts for LandY and in return LandY creates alts for LandX. That way nobody abuses HIS OWN alts.
- making one training ground for each land ... [b]without alts[/b] it is just an ideal as there are not enough ppl to sustain so many places

[u]You are just asking for the alts to completely forbidden.[/u] Just be careful at what you do.

This is just my 2 cents, not a threat, not a warning.

Edited June 20, 2010 by No one

[Lifeline]

several people speak from libertys character and the libs but all i can see is nobody having the slighest idea what their role really is and what they were made for.
the libs were the first roleplaying project of multiple accounts that ever got allowed the way it is. why do u think that is?

the libs role and purpose continues and has little to do with liberty himself being gone. they are an individual project with their own reason for existance that doesnt need their creator to survive.
is it not possible to have a legacy anymore? i mean if i were to quit marind bell and kingship do all my projects have to die and get buried with me? would the alliance KoB that i rebuild after the lost war in necrovion simply get disbanded and removed from existance because the person responsible for its role is gone? wouldnt somebody else continue my projects? how are the libs different from that...?
libs never got banned or in trouble in the past why should they now? nothing has changed expect the person who supervises them. oh and people did complain but never was anything done. again why is that? because they never broke the rules due to their unique character and purpose.

[Shemhazaj]

[quote]several people speak from libertys character and the libs but all i can see is nobody having the slighest idea what their role really is and what they were made for. [/quote]
[font="Book Antiqua"][color="#696969"]
Lifeline, I am not new to MD, but I am not a vet. No I have no idea what Lib's role is.
So instead of pointing that out could someone explain for me and people like me?
Just to have a clear view.
And to know why is this project to be used mostly for GG benefit?[/color][/font]

[Guest]

No of course legacy is important, Lifeline. I was simply clarifying, unemotionally, how some people might be thinking about this.

I have two questions:

When were the Lib alts created?

What have they [b]actually[/b] been used for in all this time?

[Yrthilian]

The libs were created a long time ago
back before the rules agenst alts.

I believe it was because of the lib army the alt rules came in but i could be wrong there too.

As no one kindly points out the libs sat in Golemus fort and were prepairing
them selfs. and No one got his info worng too though as the public idea was a developent
in work for some time.

Yes Lifeline was there training the with them as the alt finder stoped them from training
on their own. Since lifelines starts are all over the place as it is he was the best candit
for the job. When the issue was raid of persional training the training got put on hold untill
a new way was found.

You will also find if anyone else tries to create the same amount of libs that the system will
not let you.

Now as i said make suggestions to a better way and i will happly use another way.
But i will also say if this system cant be use then the same can be said for the GGG
as everyone keeps saying they are the same. nless you want to go back to the rules again
on how something is allowed untill it is found and so on and so on.

[Guest]

yrth,

I'm aware of the rules of the system, my question was hypothetical.

The Libs have been in use for what, around two years?

It has been stated that the Libs were the first roleplaying project of multiple accounts. Can you please point me towards something they have been used to roleplay in those two years? Ever since I have been in MD, the only times I have seen the Libs online have been when they were idle in random places or in the GG fenth with a couple of people training from them.


If they are to suddenly become a great, roleplayed army, then do the work. Take each of them one by one to the mainland, have people get to know them for what they are and train them the hard way. That way people will not confuse their training with them simply sitting there while a chosen few train from a group of alts. That would be my suggestion.

[Yrthilian]

ok so am i to take it that people what to see the libs come out and train?
if so i am sure i can have that arranged.

But if this is to happen i want to hear NO complaints about alt abuse as
this is what was said before when they were out and had to be put back in the fort

[Chewett]

I dont see how this is different to alts in GGG, I would like to see Murs opinion on how this differs from GGG

[Guest]

If they are being trained as seperate characters, there should be no complaints about alt abuse. I certainly wouldn't complain about it.

[Pipstickz]

I remember Akasha saying once that the Libs are allowed because they are part of Liberty's role, which, I suppose, was having lots of alts. I also remember her saying that nobody else could claim such a role and still be in line with the rules. I believe that yrth is simply using the Libs as they were intended.

Though, Mur may not feel the same way. Why do we have to turn every issue into a flame war? Why can't we just sit back and see if Mur does something about it? If yrth had gone ahead with this training ground, and Mur hadn't liked it, yrth would be punished and life would go on, but instead we just have a bunch of people yelling and making drama. So instead of a possible answer to the GGG, we get this forum thread. Horray.