Selling "your Own Md Wallpaper"

[Blackwoodforest]

I have [b]nothing[/b] to prove you or anybody else! You blame me in advance so i just counter.
If you have seen people saying this then you should open up your eyes quite better this is my own statement! Let me do my work as I want to, same as I don´t tell you what a forum mod should work like or not, because this is all subjective. And again, who are you to judge what art or what artistic is? If want answers for this, read the old topic posts again.

[Watcher]

[quote name='Muratus del Mur' date='07 June 2010 - 11:30 AM' timestamp='1275924612' post='61254']
Images FROM MD, [b]can be used for quest purposes[/b], mixed together, altered, etc, as long as they are not creating confusion. No image should be used that could be considered a spoiler, like premium creatures, remote locations, achievements colored art, etc.

Your common sense should tell you what things are obviously not right to do, like pretending you are the author of one or the other md artwork, when in fact you are not. I don't expect anyone will do that, but still i said it.
[i]Emphasis added[/i]
[/quote][quote name='Blackwoodforest' date='19 July 2010 - 02:31 AM' timestamp='1279521096' post='64154']
I am almost amused as you all might think, I would not think about my action and especially after the last blaming on this. But since this was decided and we are allowed, I don´t see any violation on copyright laws, because the owner of the copyrights is MD aka Mur.
[/quote]
How do you conclude that what you are proposing is allowed? This is not a quest, for a quest, or is in any way quest related. Because Muratus del Mur has said one thing--that images from MagicDuel may be used and altered, with stated limitations--you come to believe that his statement applies to something else entirely? Your use of "logic" is astounding.


[quote name='Blackwoodforest' date='19 July 2010 - 02:31 AM' timestamp='1279521096' post='64154']
Isn´t it so, that all artworks from artists, which has been bought by Mur [b]are property of MD[/b]? I mean, those artists have had to permit that their artworks are free to use on any MD related themes, otherwise Mur need to have to ask them as well which I don´t assume is the fact. And so as Mur the last time this topic already was pointed out confirmed that we are allowed to use artworks from MD. I really, really don´t see any point people blaming me here since I stay into the MD purpose for those.
I don´t claim artworks of my own, I point just out, like others already said, that I only put my name on my creation to see who created it, this is the vain factor in it - so what?
[i]Emphasis added.[/i]
[/quote]
Your first statement is more or less correct, though it is better to say that the images which appear in MagicDuel are the property of Muratus del Mur, as he is the owner of the game and all of its content, excluding that which has been uploaded by the players. Your second statement is also correct, as Muratus del Mur does not have to ask any artist about how he can or cannot use the images [i]he owns[/i] as he is the one who now controls how any of it is used. Your third statement, however, is where you jump to conclusions which are not supported by evidence or where your ignorance of the rights given to owners of original artwork emerges.
[u]Use of artwork:[/u] Muratus del Mur has [b]not[/b] said "that we are allowed to use artworks from MD" as you have relayed it. Referring again to the first quote, he has [i]limited[/i] the use of MagicDuel artwork to quests as long as it does not create confusion or contain that which could be considered a spoiler. I do not understand how you could go from 'use for a quest' to 'use for whatever I want' when he stated what the various images could be used for.
[u]Intent:[/u] Muratus del Mur, as you pointed out, is the one who owns the images that appear in MagicDuel (again, excluding player uploaded content.) He is the one, however, who gets to determine how that artwork is used, [u]not you.[/u] You are not an employee of MagicDuel who has been tasked with the creation of wallpapers using its content; you are also not the owner of MagicDuel. That, in essence, is why you are violating copyright laws when you use images from the game as part of what you create. As the owner of the artwork, Muratus del Mur, has the [i]exclusive rights[/i] to reproduce, distribute, alter, modify, or otherwise change [b]his artwork[/b]. He is also the one who has the [i]exclusive rights[/i] to allow others do the above, as well. He stated, as everyone can read above, what he will allow the players to do. You are taking his statement and stretching it to fit your illogical conclusion.
It does not matter whether you "stay into the MD purpose" because it is not your artwork to use. Do you understand this concept? It matters not how you are using it, but the fact that you are using it which is violating copyright law. Is this something you can fathom?
[u]Vanity:[/u] Could this not create the confusion which Muratus del Mur wants to avoid? You put your name on artwork that is not yours, not yours to manipulate, not yours to modify, not yours to distribute... need I go on or has the point been made [b]and understood?[/b]


[quote name='Blackwoodforest' date='19 July 2010 - 02:31 AM' timestamp='1279521096' post='64154']
And funny is, which not even one has pointed out so far, that if I should created a wallpaper for someone, you are not sure what it will look like, nor what it will include of MD artwork if at all. Anybody thought about this? You probably will never see nor anybody else this pics, another picking for copyrights here?
[/quote]
You are correct in that none but you and the one commissioning the artwork will know what the final product will be and that I and other have concluded that you will use MagicDuel artwork, though said conclusions are not completely unfounded. After all, past behavior is the best indicator of future actions and you have already shown a blatant disregard for artwork that belongs to others, displaying in the gallery your work, work that contains images you did not create and which you have not paid to use.


Take the time to educate yourself about copyright law to see why what you have been doing is considered illegal. Your ignorance of the rights granted to copyright holders is tiring.
Do not manipulate Muratus del Mur's words to your own ends to justify what you have done.


Let me add, after seeing your new post:
[quote name='Blackwoodforest' date='19 July 2010 - 11:42 AM' timestamp='1279554164' post='64169']
I have [b]nothing[/b] to prove you or anybody else! You blame me in advance so i just counter.
If you have seen people saying this then you should open up your eyes quite better this is my own statement! Let me do my work as I want to, same as I don´t tell you what a forum mod should work like or not, because this is all subjective. And again, who are you to judge what art or what artistic is? If want answers for this, read the old topic posts again.
[/quote]
You don't need to tell him how to do his job because he knows how to do it and does not violate any laws by doing so. You, on the contrary, simply disregard what others tell you as inconvenient and continue to do what you want even though it has been pointed out that you have not recieved permission to do so.

This is not subjective, nor is this about "art." This is about theft and using that which is not yours.

Should Muratus del Mur step in and say "Blackwood Forest has permission to use any and all MagicDuel artwork as he sees fit to create anything he wants" (or something similar to that) then I will never again broach this topic.

Edited July 19, 2010 by Watcher

[Blackwoodforest]

[quote name='Watcher' date='19 July 2010 - 05:46 PM' timestamp='1279554406' post='64170']
[u]Vanity:[/u] Could this not create the confusion which Muratus del Mur wants to avoid? You put your name on artwork that is not yours, not yours to manipulate, not yours to modify, not yours to distribute... need I go on or has the point been made [b]and understood?[/b]
[/quote]

You are right, as I think about it, this really could cause confusion. I changed the copyright on the forum.

Edited July 19, 2010 by Blackwoodforest

[Kafuuka]

[quote name='Watcher' date='19 July 2010 - 05:46 PM' timestamp='1279554406' post='64170']
[quote name='Muratus del Mur' date='07 June 2010 - 11:30 AM']
Images FROM MD, can be used for quest purposes, mixed together, altered, etc, as long as they are not creating confusion. No image should be used that could be considered a spoiler, like premium creatures, remote locations, achievements colored art, etc.
[/quote]
How do you conclude that what you are proposing is allowed? This is not a quest, for a quest, or is in any way quest related. Because Muratus del Mur has said one thing--that images from MagicDuel may be used and altered, with stated limitations--you come to believe that his statement applies to something else entirely? Your use of "logic" is astounding.
[/quote]
How do you conclude that it is for quest purposes only? I'm not an expert on English grammar, but a comma can be used to list multiple possibilities which need not be inclusive as well. "can be used for quest purposes or mixed together or altered etc." versus "can be used for quest purposes, eg by being mixed together or being altered etc". In a further quote, Mur states personal use as another acceptable use, does he have to list all things allowed one by one?

It's funny how you go after single words, yet fail to provide quotes which are interpretable in only a single way.

[Watcher]

[quote name='Kafuuka' date='19 July 2010 - 02:34 PM' timestamp='1279564465' post='64179']
How do you conclude that it is for quest purposes only? I'm not an expert on English grammar, but a comma can be used to list multiple possibilities which need not be inclusive as well. "can be used for quest purposes or mixed together or altered etc." versus "can be used for quest purposes, eg by being mixed together or being altered etc". In a further quote, Mur states personal use as another acceptable use, does he have to list all things allowed one by one?

It's funny how you go after single words, yet fail to provide quotes which are interpretable in only a single way.
[/quote]
Your interpretation of what has been stated completely disregards copyright law. If one is to believe you, Muratus del Mur is saying "you can do anything you want with my property" and there is absolutely no indication that he has given such freedom to use his artwork in such a way.

I based my conclusion on what was actually said, much like how laws are established. When something is unclear, when a law has different possible interpreations, courts get involved to determine what has actully been said. To keep oneself safe, and to keep Muratus del Mur's porperty under his control, a narrow interpretation of what has been stated is called for. Your interpreration allows anyone to use his property as they see fit. That makes no sense.

Furthermore, "personal use" never includes the reproduction and sale of another's artwork. How do you conclude that what was originally proposed--profit for a man who is using another's work--is somehow "personal use"?

Finally, would it be best if Muratus del Mur spelled out exactly how he wants his property used? Or would it be best for those who want to create MagicDuel-themed [i]anything[/i] to use [i]their own creative abilities[/i] instead of constantly appropriating someone else's property?

Edited July 19, 2010 by Watcher

[Pipstickz]

This topic is all spam, and it's ridiculous.

Chewett - has Mur noticed this topic yet, or does it need more spam?

Watcher - you continue to spam this topic in an almost malicious way, and there can be one of two reasons for it that I can see. Either you really don't want Blackwood to be in any trouble, or you're just a jerk who won't stop talking until everybody believes you. Considering that Blackwood has agreed with you already and yet you continue to argue, I'm inclined to believe that it's the latter.

[Muratus del Mur]

i am not sure what is unclear from what i said.

let me put it in a different way, maybe it is more clear. Use your logic abilities to combine what i said and figure it out:

NO NO NO cases
- you can't use md art to make money out of it, resell it for CASH, etc. Cash doesn't mean md credits, creatures or other valuables from within md.
- you can't use md art for non md related things, like for your own non-md related project, etc.
- you can't use md art if you do it in such a way that it affects the storyline, theme, or fundamental concepts in md, or if it is causing intentional confusion. To be more clear about this, i care about what you do with the art too, not only if it is for md or not.
- you can't use md art if i say you can't use it... i thought it is obvious.
- you can't use some of the art, those parts that i consider spoilers.
- Things like artwork libraries, collections of images from md, premium creature or rare creature high level artworks, please don't use them.
- you can do walpapers, just avoid confusion and mention they are done by you, with your own efforts. if you plan to put them public anywhere else than md, i don't want people to think they are official artworks, regardless how good or bad they look.
- you can't use it in anything that tends to look official and is not. For example you can't use md artworks in phone games, regardless if they fit the rest of the rules and you give them for free.

YES YES cases
- you can use md artworks to support things related to your md quests, role, research.
- you can use them for personal use, meaning the product of your work wont be shared, given, sold, traded to others. For example if you want to do yourself a mouse pad with the last level of the marksman, fine with me, just don't let me find out .. because if i do it means it is public use and not private.
- you can trade creations based on md artworks as long as they remain within md and the trade is also within md, not for cash, or other non md things. This has also to fit the no spoiling rule.
- you can use it if i said you can use it. obviously.


it is common sense what i ask. Most of the cases of copyright infringement were solved by a simple discussion, and most were involving people not from md. The things i ask about the artworks use are to protect md's values, to keep it unique and keep its quality level. If i would leave the use of the artworks open to anyone and anything, this unicity would fade and "outsiders" as well as new players will no longer know what is md and what is player made.


I can't say BW has the right to blah bla... he is not my business partner, he has no special permission, he is just a player. What i say here is valid for all.

Regarding this particular case, i have nothing against player made walpapers. If you plan to post them on walpaper sites, or post them on your personal site and brag with md artworks to people that have no clue they are not yours, that is NOT ok. To be more sure everything is fine, whoever does such things, please state clearly that artworks is from md, and not done by you, so that new and unaware people know that and to avoid confusion. If you sell it, be sure to specify that you sell the way you combined, altered, mixed it, not the art itself. Like music and remixes, the dj is still an artist, but he is not claiming he composed the music he used for the mix, just the mix itself.

If you do it for profit within md, its fine with me, as long as profit stays within md boundaries. Using md artworks within md , game or community, is the same as using creatures, or surfing the scenes. If you take it outside md, then it is stealing, unless you do everything possible to make it clear they belong to md, and talk to me about it.


One thing that will make me happy every time and is important, make sure whatever you will create using md art has "MagicDuel" or domain name or MagicDuel Adventure written on it. That way it is clear you didnt used the art for other purposes.


I make a huge difference between md people and people outside md. As a player, i will ask you, talk to you, explain you, listen to your reasons and even allow exceptions based on them when it comes to how you can use the artworks. For example, with the walpapers, i could say ok do them, but then ask you to remove one or the other because they don't fit with md or whatever. I expect you to respect that. As a non-player, md outsider, i will not do that. For people that find these artworks sweet and usable for their own projects, i know only to bite and use any tools imaginable to stop them.

If my answer is still not clear ... please put a more clear question.

Edited July 19, 2010 by Muratus del Mur
mentioned that trade with things from md is OK, cash is not.

[Blackwoodforest]

Thanks for your statement Mur, some minor things should be now even to your picky friends clear and understandable written.

Topic can be closed, I will be still offering wallpapers to anyone, non-offical and only on demand.

[Watcher]

[quote name='Muratus del Mur' date='19 July 2010 - 06:46 PM' timestamp='1279579565' post='64193']
- you can use them for personal use, meaning the product of your work wont be shared, given, sold, traded to others.
[/quote][quote name='Blackwoodforest' date='20 July 2010 - 01:49 AM' timestamp='1279604958' post='64200']
Thanks for your statement Mur, some minor things should be now even to your picky friends clear and understandable written.

Topic can be closed, I will be still offering wallpapers to anyone, non-offical and only on demand.
[/quote]
Yes, I hope things have been made clear for everyone who had trouble understanding what they wanted to do was wrong.
I would also expect that none of the "non-offical" wallpapers you make for others would use images from MagicDuel, as Muratus del Mur has finally had to state explicitly that he does not want them used in such a way.

[(Zl-eye-f)-nea]

Watcher, apart from the fact that it is clearly you who have no clue about copyright law considering I could quote cases to disparage half of the things you say, it also appears you can't actually read, or perhaps as Pip said you don't want to.

It is perfectly clear that under both what Mur says AND copyright law (except for possible loop holes to be discussed by high class lawyers, not masked forum activists), what Blackwood is doing is fine unless he steps over the very clear and obvious line. If you need me to spell it out for you with a sequential list of clippings from Mur and an endless and very specific explaination of linguistic terminology in the rather patronising way you have been treating other people on this thread, I will.

Z