Mystire

No, it's about judging other people's intent, according to standards you accumulated in this world and the situations and circumstances that apply to this reality world. I'm not saying that this is right or this is wrong, or that I don't respect your views or your way of expressing them; it's just that it seems that it is what you are doing here. That's why I used the term 'morality' in my post: because basically that's what you are doing here in this whole issue. As far as I can see, at least on your side, you're trying to get others to believe in your version of right and wrong, because to you it is the only correct right and wrong. That's why you are so frustrated, and why no one else seems to get what you're getting.
 
And don't get me wrong, I am not against you or anything. On the game issue I can see how eventually there are gonna be some rules on murder anyways, and personally I can understand where you come from, especially after clarifying your views briefly in the in-game chat yesterday. And as your adept I am and have been very appreciative of your help, and would never stand against you on something important to you. I am just calling you out on what you are doing/seem to be doing, because I am not sure if you are aware of it, and because it seems to be causing you quite a bit of frustration, both of which seem to be normal for things which are highly personal and close to our heart and which it is difficult to be fully aware of what we are doing without a third-party perspective. And I don't think such a frustration can be resolved, however this issue eventually goes, without this sort of awareness.

I haven't really played MD much, nor experienced the thing about killing that people have been talking about, so I don't suppose I can really give a qualified comment, but I think the thing about death in real life is that it takes away real life. When you die in real life you die, and your experience is over, and everything you have gained and hold on to and value and is important to you is taken away. You lose everything, and that's just for your effects on you. Everyone who is dear to you loses everything that depends on you, too. And so in society we have rules to make sure that no one can go around doing this to any person and all those around them without a really really really good reason that most can agree with or at least justify. But in MD it sounds like death and murder doesn't have the same thing at all. It doesn't sound like you lose all your possessions (well, maybe you do, but if you come back you have a chance to get them back?), all you stand for, your family, your identity, your people, all you treasure and all that is important to you. Instead, from what I'm getting from Mur, death here is simply part of the experience, a different part of experience. That is, death here is part of the gameplay, and thus by definition part of life here, since life is basically the sum of our experience. It just happens to be called the same name as the 'death' that we are familiar with (or rather, think we are familiar with) in real life. Or at least you can think of it that way, at that level (at the level where we are all shards of the One, welll, that is sort of different but ehhh)
 
I guess the important thing is to recognise the reasons for morality and law and order, and what is behind them. There are reasons why morality is thus in RL, there are reasons why law and order is thus in RL, and there are reasons why they are so in MD, and there's the reality behind those reasons. Without that we will always be conflating the morality here with the morality there, which will perhaps tend to make us angry about people not respecting life and respecting death, or appearing to condone murder, or not treating them with enough importance, things like that. Looking at them separately, perhaps we can understand better how killing, murder, and death is thus here instead. I guess.
 
That's just how I see it, anyways. Hope this helps in some or any way.

I haven't really played MD much, nor experienced the thing about killing that people have been talking about, so I don't suppose I can really give a qualified comment, but I think the thing about death in real life is that it takes away real life. When you die in real life you die, and your experience is over, and everything you have gained and hold on to and value and is important to you is taken away. You lose everything, and that's just for your effects on you. Everyone who is dear to you loses everything that depends on you, too. And so in society we have rules to make sure that no one can go around doing this to any person and all those around them without a really really really good reason that most can agree with or at least justify. But in MD it sounds like death and murder doesn't have the same thing at all. It doesn't sound like you lose all your possessions (well, maybe you do, but if you come back you have a chance to get them back?), all you stand for, your family, your identity, your people, all you treasure and all that is important to you. Instead, from what I'm getting from Mur, death here is simply part of the experience, a different part of experience. That is, death here is part of the gameplay, and thus by definition part of life here, since life is basically the sum of our experience. It just happens to be called the same name as the 'death' that we are familiar with (or rather, think we are familiar with) in real life. Or at least you can think of it that way, at that level (at the level where we are all shards of the One, welll, that is sort of different but ehhh)
 
I guess the important thing is to recognise the reasons for morality and law and order, and what is behind them. There are reasons why morality is thus in RL, there are reasons why law and order is thus in RL, and there are reasons why they are so in MD, and there's the reality behind those reasons. Without that we will always be conflating the morality here with the morality there, which will perhaps tend to make us angry about people not respecting life and respecting death, or appearing to condone murder, or not treating them with enough importance, things like that. Looking at them separately, perhaps we can understand better how killing, murder, and death is thus here instead. I guess.
 
That's just how I see it, anyways. Hope this helps in some or any way.

murder in md is not by far the same thing as murder in rl. A few things differ. In rl ANYONE COULD murder anyone, in md you need to aquire tools for this task an getting those tools give you a partial right to use them as you think fit. Second, death is not permanent, even without reviving methods, while in rl there is no reviving and the punishment for murder takes into consideration the permanency of this crime. As i said, there could be any sort of punishments and rules set by the land leaders as they think fit. On a social level they can and should cover any such thing that might be missing or unregulated by md in an official way. From MY perspective, murder is not punishable, because in MD i represent the equivalent of "nature" and in nature, murder happens and nobody punishes you for it "officialy". All punishments for murder are given by representants of the same species. humans punish humans, not other animals, for murder, while in the jungle animals kill with a purpose and nothing "punishes" them for this action. So, murder, in my eyes as the one being officially responsible of md as a contained world, murder is a natural thing to happen, unpunishable by me, and i don't care, or better said i give full freedom to any social structure within md to punish it as they can, if they can.

The way I see it, you are justifying murder by the presence of revival spells. I really cant accept it. By your response, you seem to be saying that 'killing' is not a big thing. That the intent to murder is not a big thing because there are revival tools. Did you really intend that feature to be something like that? With all the symbology you give importance to, is this the value death has for you? The only counter to murder in MD is revival? So any number of people can be killed because they can be revived back? And killing a person in MD is not as bad as abusing the game to gain insane stats?
 
Death in MD is already a joke. It'll be a bigger joke in times to come. MD is not a platform to make a joke about something like murder and death. I have gained so many values form this game, but seeing people in MD killed on such a regular basis, it's like MD doesnt value life anymore. Now, it's like, "So what if I die? There is always someone to revive me." No wonder Seig's day of fear failed so epicly. From what I remember, at one point, he said that he was trying to make people fear death and its consequences. Obviously people dont fear death in MD. Because every week there is someone who kills and someone who dies. Majority of the revival item holders want to charge money or put forward insane conditions. If you do not have powerful friends who can beat up the molquert guards, you just end up being dead all the time till molquert threatens people and people help in the revival.All this drama is getting boring now.
 
I appreciate the concept of death. But I do not appreciate the concept of murder. As Maeb said, there should be a system that should provide some kind of punishment. Keep the jail for abuse related punishhments. Ok. But please implement some kind of system that punishes murder too. 

I am considering the justice system in md as an "exception" that kicks in only in some isolated cases, the rest of the justice system in md should happen between players or between land leaders and their subjects. Jail is for crimes that are not allowed to be done, while "killing" is something that has tools to be done and is part of the gameplay, i can't officialy send to jail anyone using a kill tool, as if it would be the same sort of crime with someone abusing the system or doing things i consider far worse. In RL murder is punished drasically, but there are also no "reviving" spells available, think about that.

First of all, admittance into SotIS is not some greater purpose or ultimate acomplishment in MD, please stop thinking that. Nothing happens in SotIS, really, and eventually I might leave it when I will consider i built it up as i wanted it to be. It is just the personal ally of the crazy me. It has a meaning, of course, but a personal one. I just play my 'role', one I am bound to, but SotIS is just a symbol, no authority or extra benefits come with it.

I consider SotIS ..CLOSED. more like a unbreakable safe.... in a way. But i have a weakness, like every system does. I keep always a secret path to the safest places. The most guarded secrets have a way to them...you know why? Because if you would somehow manage to "close" a secret fully it will simply vanish and re emerge with an other 'owner' and an other form. It is the secrecy and safety of the way in that gards them, but without a way in, they die.

Admittance into sotis has many forms. One was the symbol quest, seems however guba vanished afterwards because his last challenge was one consisting of something i consider he was missing. Anyway, each time i keep a door open, but it will never be the front door. I made the symbol quest, that was one door, once it ended (and the waiting time was part of the quest), that door is closed. It follows a time of 'tranquility' but shorter than a month i am preparing an other door, till someone gets closer to it.

Brulant just happend to find such a door, realise that it is his ticket in to the sotis, and asked to be admited based on that reasoning. It took him a single pm to get into sotis and quite fast. Ofcourse to reach that point it took him his entire lifetime here in md and maybe more

In more details:
After closing the symbol quest, that door into sotis got permanently shut (or at least for a while), and i designed the second. I left clues, leading intuitively to the other door. All i was expecting was a certain explenation about 'why the sun'. In addition it was needed that that someone would specifically ask for admitance into sotis based on that alone. Brulant sees it maybe as a coincidence, i dont know, but i know there are no such things as coincidences, there are only event collisions.


I bet he doesnt realise himself why he wanted or why he is in. As shadowseeker just told me, his role might be clear for me but unclear for him, yet he asked for it. Now thats a research puzzle


Nothing new! what Brulant did is nothing new as I saw others get so close to this secret door into sotis yet never try to actually open it. Doubts , lack of initiative, you name it, they passed by saying oh how beautiful this thing looks, it might be a door, but never walked in. I can recall people like Menhir or others that sparked my knowledge with very very interesting posts, i thank them, yet none realised they were admiring a door that only needed pushed to be opened, it was already unlocked at some point, indirectly, through the clues i left behind.

Other people like awiiya discussed with me the very essence of the question, but this is about admitance into sotis not about how intuitively smart you can be. Admitance into sotis is not a mark of your knowledge, i have people right now in md that i would be honored to have in sotis, yet i dont, so i will never 'drag' them in just because i can do that with a word or two.

The perfect candidate had to know what he wanted, to know the key, to know when to use it, and most important to know how. Even the start of the pm reminding me who he is, brulant, without assuming he is already a legend,lol, mattered. I told Awi a while back that symbolically speaking it is a great danger to allow anyone into SotIS, ever. Yet i follow my own principles and fall into my own traps if it happens. My logic is flawless and denying it when i dont like it it would mean to lie to myself. There was a door only i knew, it was used, Brulant is in.

That is what gives my quest power and reality, not my name.

Meee!:
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