JacoAnd

Some more info to convince that I am scammed is that the last time he read the messages I sent in forum was at "Last Read: Today, 10:01 PM" (So it says)

And the last message I sent to him was at: Sent Today, 08:12 PM
So he has seen my messages but still ignores it.

But is it seriusly okey to scam unknowing people if you make it part of your role. I have never really had any contact to Granos and as far as I know never done anything to him.
If it is okey, I am pretty sure I will never trust anyone enough to trade anything anymore, and I will lose most of the respect I have to this game.

Edit: Normally scammers gets banned in games... I know that a ban is not easily given out, but to allow it to happen is just wrong. (Not saying he should get banned.)

I had my Golemus pass papers for sale on he forum (For those of you that dont know)
And I got a offer from Granos saying he would give me a GG Drach with 251 age for it. (Anonymously)
I then traded my pass papers to him, but didnt get anything back and he seems to be ignoring me now, both on the forum and in game.
If he dont wanna give me a GG drach I would at least like my papers back.

I was not trying to cause trouble, but this is exactly what I thought wa going on, you were purposely abusing Alts to bypass the WP rule... Which is wrong, right? Against the rules?

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[quote name='cutler121' date='28 February 2010 - 03:40 AM' timestamp='1267324813' post='55444']
1) Even though Granos used my creature partial CTC to sucker Jacoand into thinking Granos had a drachorn, when Jacoand checked the info in the CTC checker it clearly shows right at the top the userid of the actual owner. Clearly Jacoand didn't actually bother to check the info provided by the CTC checker script and if he had he never would have fallen for such an obvious and blatant scam. [/quote]
If it gives the userId in number form and not a name, it is not as explicit information as you might think it is. Afaik uid and name are not linked through the forum either, so it is plausible Jacoand didn't have the necessary pieces. (No it isn't hard to get them, although it used to be easier than it is now and thus I suspect it's supposed to be a spoiler.)

[quote]4) I do not know Jacoand and I have never interracted with him, but having been forced to look at what actually transpired with Granos, it is clear that Jacoand was either being very greedy and didn't bother to check the info at his disposal, or Jacoand is not very intelligent and shouldn't be trying to get something (dracorn) for nothing (pass papers). Either way this situation should be a good lesson for others to not be greedy and if you aren't that intelligent have someone who is help you. [/quote]
The pass papers are not nothing. Sure he got them for free, but you actually get everything for free in the game except WP and credits (although you can vote for them). eg. For someone who has 30 creature slots but only uses 25 to train creatures, the extra 5 are free to age free creatures until worth something.
And if things are stolen with the victim's greed as a motive, there should be no profit for the 'punisher'. I can't say what would have happened if Granos had given away the papers to someone for free (and not to a friend's alt), but I think the RP and greed arguments would have been far more acceptable; everybody likes Robin Hood.

[quote name='Granos' date='26 February 2010 - 12:27 AM' timestamp='1267140471' post='55246']
Given that it took place in Marind Bell such a King would be Lifeline as he is neutral party in such a matter and it happened within his lands and he has no stakes in such items as would someone from GG would. But this is merely my opinion, but I like the idea non the less.
[/quote]

I dont think any player can actually ever be completely neutral, the only one who in my eyes could be neutral is Mur, he has nothing to get (He has everything if he wants to), the only thing he gets out of things like his is apperently amusement.

[quote name='Pipstickz' date='26 February 2010 - 01:28 AM' timestamp='1267144123' post='55250']
Mur has personal relationships too, you know >>
[/quote]

Hehe
Yeah but not in the same way as a player, he would be very hard to (I dont remember the word on english) to just hand over a drach under the table to.
He might not be completely neutral but he is the closest.
Not saying that others wouldnt be, but there has to appear doubt at some point if people disagree with the decision, and then the trust in the way the court should work disapears.
But again thats my opinion, you are free to have one yourself.

[quote name='Granos' date='26 February 2010 - 12:27 AM' timestamp='1267140471' post='55246']
Given that it took place in Marind Bell such a King would be Lifeline as he is neutral party in such a matter and it happened within his lands and he has no stakes in such items as would someone from GG would. But this is merely my opinion, but I like the idea non the less.
[/quote]

I dont think any player can actually ever be completely neutral, the only one who in my eyes could be neutral is Mur, he has nothing to get (He has everything if he wants to), the only thing he gets out of things like his is apperently amusement.

[quote name='Pipstickz' date='26 February 2010 - 01:28 AM' timestamp='1267144123' post='55250']
Mur has personal relationships too, you know >>
[/quote]

Hehe
Yeah but not in the same way as a player, he would be very hard to (I dont remember the word on english) to just hand over a drach under the table to.
He might not be completely neutral but he is the closest.
Not saying that others wouldnt be, but there has to appear doubt at some point if people disagree with the decision, and then the trust in the way the court should work disapears.
But again thats my opinion, you are free to have one yourself.

[quote name='Granos' date='26 February 2010 - 12:27 AM' timestamp='1267140471' post='55246']
Given that it took place in Marind Bell such a King would be Lifeline as he is neutral party in such a matter and it happened within his lands and he has no stakes in such items as would someone from GG would. But this is merely my opinion, but I like the idea non the less.
[/quote]

I dont think any player can actually ever be completely neutral, the only one who in my eyes could be neutral is Mur, he has nothing to get (He has everything if he wants to), the only thing he gets out of things like his is apperently amusement.

[quote name='Pipstickz' date='26 February 2010 - 01:28 AM' timestamp='1267144123' post='55250']
Mur has personal relationships too, you know >>
[/quote]

Hehe
Yeah but not in the same way as a player, he would be very hard to (I dont remember the word on english) to just hand over a drach under the table to.
He might not be completely neutral but he is the closest.
Not saying that others wouldnt be, but there has to appear doubt at some point if people disagree with the decision, and then the trust in the way the court should work disapears.
But again thats my opinion, you are free to have one yourself.

Like Jaco said, noone can really be neutral and Mur is the closest that one can get.

Since we are all MD players, we all have no choice but to believe that he will instill justice as he sees fit.

I know there are some who feels that he doesnt have all players welfare at heart, or that he is biased by his own personal relationships, but we have to remind ourselves that we still have a personal choice, and that is the choice to stop playing if you feel injustice has been done upon you.

Whether it is Mur, Kings or Queens who are meting out justice, there will always be a voice in the realm who is not of the same opinion and feels that biasness came into play.

No sentence can make everyone happy, there will always be sympathisers for the criminals, justifications for an evil act, a bond that blinds one to the act of cruelness.

Justice is different for different perceptions of different individuals.

[quote name='Granos' date='26 February 2010 - 12:27 AM' timestamp='1267140471' post='55246']
Given that it took place in Marind Bell such a King would be Lifeline as he is neutral party in such a matter and it happened within his lands and he has no stakes in such items as would someone from GG would. But this is merely my opinion, but I like the idea non the less.
[/quote]

I dont think any player can actually ever be completely neutral, the only one who in my eyes could be neutral is Mur, he has nothing to get (He has everything if he wants to), the only thing he gets out of things like his is apperently amusement.

[quote name='Pipstickz' date='26 February 2010 - 01:28 AM' timestamp='1267144123' post='55250']
Mur has personal relationships too, you know >>
[/quote]

Hehe
Yeah but not in the same way as a player, he would be very hard to (I dont remember the word on english) to just hand over a drach under the table to.
He might not be completely neutral but he is the closest.
Not saying that others wouldnt be, but there has to appear doubt at some point if people disagree with the decision, and then the trust in the way the court should work disapears.
But again thats my opinion, you are free to have one yourself.

I had my Golemus pass papers for sale on he forum (For those of you that dont know)
And I got a offer from Granos saying he would give me a GG Drach with 251 age for it. (Anonymously)
I then traded my pass papers to him, but didnt get anything back and he seems to be ignoring me now, both on the forum and in game.
If he dont wanna give me a GG drach I would at least like my papers back.

Agrees with Firsan.

It is not about Jaco now, but what happens when a scam is done? This involves the whole of MD.

Before MD, I have played in games where players steal, cheat, lie, go on attacking rampage... all part of the game, but no scams are allowed!

Any scammers caught will be sent straight to jail.

This could be a first in MD, and it would be interesting what kind of precedent it would set.

Yes, it does. And honestly... nothing will happen to him either. Granos is a villain. Jacoand should have known that. He is over 300 days old.

Touching words, but it was nothing more than pure deceit, although through word play there is a loop hole but I would rather see what there is to suffer.

Do your worst.

I'm sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree.
Personally I don't like the way people can make large profits from items they received for nothing. In a way, I see that as mercenary and not very condusive to the game in general.
That being said, theft is another matter entirely. Granos may play a villain, but there has to be a line between 'playing' one and 'behaving' like one. I'm sorry Granos, but I feel that you have overstepped the mark here in the name of villainy. Its hard to say what you have done is purely RP. Theft from an MD character really does impact on the player and its really theft from both.
Also, as Jester said, there are supposed to be consequences for actions. You can't walk into a shop and steal things and then just say 'Hey, Im a villainous person, its my job'.

While having people play villains is a good thing imo, there has to be some boundaries. Some unofficial rules if you like. And I personally feel that one has been crossed now.

In the end, having people feel like they have been ripped off or abused in some other fashion is counterproductive and imo unnaceptable. How can you expect the game to grow if you have this kind of thing happening. It is a proven fact that people are more likely to complain than to compliment and also more likely to tell people about something bad than something good. Personally, I would not refer a friend or family member to any place, if I thought it likely that they would be scammed, stolen from or abused in any fashion. I'm sure I am not alone in this opinion.

I had my Golemus pass papers for sale on he forum (For those of you that dont know)
And I got a offer from Granos saying he would give me a GG Drach with 251 age for it. (Anonymously)
I then traded my pass papers to him, but didnt get anything back and he seems to be ignoring me now, both on the forum and in game.
If he dont wanna give me a GG drach I would at least like my papers back.

I really hope you decide to continue the AL, Not that I am part of it, but I am really looking forward to see what will happen.
And to not continue it by not telling "What have happened" even though they are not playing, will destroy the flow in it.
I am seeing it kinda like my favorite show on tv, (and almost looking forward to it as much) if one of the actors in the show cannot be in the the show they will find another actor to take the role, or kill the person in the show (Hey that was an idea... ).

But not continuing it, that would be the most depressing thing I can think of ...

I really hope you decide to continue it even though the veterans (Or some of them) Dont think you should, because I am really looking forward for it.

If I remember right, you got the pass papers for free, did you not? Just putting that out there.

[quote name='Fenrir Greycloth' date='24 February 2010 - 09:38 PM' timestamp='1267043882' post='55119']
Truthfully? Serves you right.

Those papers belong to the Golemus citizens. Not to anyone who can buy them.
[/quote]

I dont really see why it serves me right, I have never said I wouldnt sell it to golemus, they have had the exact same chance as any other, of course I could have waited to see if golemus would offer more than a drach, but really a drach was all that I find it worth.
So going over that would make it only possible for the ones who has the most money in the game, thats the reason I stopped it there.

And I just say I want it back or my drach, because I believe that if a trade is agreed on it should be hold.

And I couldnt find anything negative about Granos, so I decided to trust him after he sent me the first part of the ctc to be sure that he had the drach.

The paper was the most valuable item I have ever had, so for it being scammed from me and then geting told it serves me right just seems plain wrong.

If I shouldnt trade it I could also just have kept it, being an item hoarder instead.

[quote name='Orlando Gardiner' date='24 February 2010 - 10:05 PM' timestamp='1267045513' post='55123']
Whait a few more days, what's his activity, don't accuse him yet, that's not serving..
[/quote]

If it wasnt because I could see him being active on he forum, and he fact that he wasnt online a little after the trade and then came online again in game, Of course I greatly apologize if there is another reason, but it just seems weird he moves after I traded him it, and i dont get a reply or my ctc.

Have tried messaging him both on forum and in game, and his acivety changed on forum after I sent him a message there.
But if you can find him please say to him that he should send me a message explaining, because I cant seem to find him even though he is online.

[quote name='Fenrir Greycloth' date='24 February 2010 - 09:38 PM' timestamp='1267043882' post='55119']
Truthfully? Serves you right.

Those papers belong to the Golemus citizens. Not to anyone who can buy them.
[/quote]

I dont really see why it serves me right, I have never said I wouldnt sell it to golemus, they have had the exact same chance as any other, of course I could have waited to see if golemus would offer more than a drach, but really a drach was all that I find it worth.
So going over that would make it only possible for the ones who has the most money in the game, thats the reason I stopped it there.

And I just say I want it back or my drach, because I believe that if a trade is agreed on it should be hold.

And I couldnt find anything negative about Granos, so I decided to trust him after he sent me the first part of the ctc to be sure that he had the drach.

The paper was the most valuable item I have ever had, so for it being scammed from me and then geting told it serves me right just seems plain wrong.

If I shouldnt trade it I could also just have kept it, being an item hoarder instead.

[quote name='Orlando Gardiner' date='24 February 2010 - 10:05 PM' timestamp='1267045513' post='55123']
Whait a few more days, what's his activity, don't accuse him yet, that's not serving..
[/quote]

If it wasnt because I could see him being active on he forum, and he fact that he wasnt online a little after the trade and then came online again in game, Of course I greatly apologize if there is another reason, but it just seems weird he moves after I traded him it, and i dont get a reply or my ctc.

Have tried messaging him both on forum and in game, and his acivety changed on forum after I sent him a message there.
But if you can find him please say to him that he should send me a message explaining, because I cant seem to find him even though he is online.

There's 7 gold..which don't make a drach.

7*15=105 silver if my maths isn't wrong, and trust me, even for that price drachs aren't available.

This is a bit offtopic, I am curious what else will be said here.

I had my Golemus pass papers for sale on he forum (For those of you that dont know)
And I got a offer from Granos saying he would give me a GG Drach with 251 age for it. (Anonymously)
I then traded my pass papers to him, but didnt get anything back and he seems to be ignoring me now, both on the forum and in game.
If he dont wanna give me a GG drach I would at least like my papers back.

I had my Golemus pass papers for sale on he forum (For those of you that dont know)
And I got a offer from Granos saying he would give me a GG Drach with 251 age for it. (Anonymously)
I then traded my pass papers to him, but didnt get anything back and he seems to be ignoring me now, both on the forum and in game.
If he dont wanna give me a GG drach I would at least like my papers back.

Truthfully? Serves you right.

Those papers belong to the Golemus citizens. Not to anyone who can buy them.