Daemon Torvez

[quote name='dst' date='10 November 2009 - 04:54 PM' timestamp='1257890098' post='47173']
But it gives you something you'll never ever find in another game:freedom! You are allowed to do whatever crosses your mind. The limit is indeed your imagination.

MD has no walthroughs, no help pages, almost no hints. It's the best like this. Why? Cause of the above statement. Imagine this: you register, go through the tutorial and then you are given all the information you need (game mechanics, crits levels, etc, etc). You will be bored to death in a week. You'll not have time to make friends, you'll not have time to integrate yourself.

Again, MD is full of hypocrites. So I prefer a honest swear then a nice a**-kissing.

[size="7"]One last thing: BURNS!!! I am not OLD![/size] [color="#0000FF"]*undresses the troll costume and throws it after Burns*[/color]
[/quote]

I hope you had something on under that troll costume.

I can agree with you on at least a few things but I have to disagree about the guides. Guides would not remove any freedom from the game, in fact I think they would give more freedom Or at least help people realize just how free they can be in MD. The guides would help people understand the world better and thus be better players. A well written guide does not tell people what to do but helps present options and correlations between ideas so others may better be able to understand and take free action themselves. I also disagree that guides would make people bored and thus hinder them from interacting and making friends. People choose to not interact and make friends. It's not hard for them to stand around and talk and make the effort.

I could agree about the hypocrites but that's the same anywhere you have humans. People have good intentions, say things but often times end up doing something different for who knows why. Nothing new really when dealing with people so no reason to get any under garments tied in a knot about it.

Maybe these points will help too:

I’m writing this list as I read the other postings in this thread. If I mirror what others have said I’m not trying to steal anyone’s thunder. These are my thoughts too. I really like MD or I would have left a long time ago. But it does need some help to keep new players and just simply to better itself. So here’s my input. I know it’s long but if you knew me this is me being short winded….

1) Any monkey (and especially gamer) should be able to figure out the basics of how to set rituals, recruit creatures and the basics of combat in MD. Nothing here should be changed. It may look like a Pokémon style game but it does hold its own and is different. One thing that could help is maybe better define or explain what creatures are for new people. Maybe even set up a flash introduction story where things are explained or (see #3) make a guide for the game.

2) If your losing players in story mode I offer a couple ideas why it seems that way:
A) They were trying to figure out the different paths in the story not caring about the specific character(s) being used at the time. (So they will make many to map out the whole story, cant really stop this without a lot of coding and work.)
[img]http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/public/style_emoticons//cool.gif[/img] They received some negative stats because of a choice they made in story mode, did not like it and dropped the character. (Will most likely repeat many times as many gamers would do this. But don’t change this, they made their choices they can live with it.)
C) Are a vet player trying to make a very specific character/story path and felt the need to try a few times to get what they were hoping for to create an Alt. (Will most likely do many times and again is normal. This would happen in any game, it’s just what gamers do.)
D) Are new, don’t realize what MD is about and don’t have any patience and need instant gratification and can’t wait up to 24 hours for each part of the story to unfold. (We don’t need that impatient of players anyway, let them go.)

3) Players may not realize that MD is so unique and specialized. They may think it’s a browser based MMO, find that it’s not and leave. (This can be helped with a better packaging of MD in its marketing. Maybe make a couple of guides too for the game that better explain it but this is lacking in MD. Players have to read many forums, hunt through archives after joining the game and or wait for discussions in game to really know what is going on. I’m willing to bet many older players don’t even know the story line and have not even tried reading everything or tried and gave up. MD needs to be better defined and presented to players, new and old alike.)

4) Create and present a better and less cryptic definition of MD, it’s storyline, players, lands, magic, etc. (goes along the lines of #3 but I can see how MD could be very confusing to many players and this would defiantly make them lose interest.)

5) Alter how players become confirmed. Require LHOs to fill out a quick hidden form on players as part of the confirmation process. For example they simply have to check off 3 boxes on the confirmation screen and “digitally sign” that they reviewed the player. Player’s characters should not be confirmed until they have become MP4 (passed MP3 and understand basics of combat), created their papers (have a defined character to even play), have an appropriate name (yes subjective but we don’t need 10 Darth Vaders or Great Demon Gods, running around MD). MP3 should be the discovery phase for players by MP4 everyone should have a fully developed and created character. (Basically I think the start of the game needs attention especially how new characters are created and how the MP 3 level is utilized).

6) Consider using an automated naming feature where players pick from a random list of first and last names like other games use. Then have the option for players to create a nick name of their own which can be displayed. This could be a MD shop purchase. But this would also alleviate naming problems and help with over all game continuity.

7) Consider throwing players a bone, or just altering the magic system and start giving magic to MP4’s and above. It is Magic Dual. When I had the time to try and help as a LHO (don’t have the time to be one but did help). Many new players thought they would be able to use magic right away. So consider adding some basic magic to the game sooner. You could simply offer magic spells as you do creatures for MP 4 and 5. These could be considered lesser magic for example and could fit into your definition of things Mur. And it could give you an alternative to using creatures to drain principles. So players would be able to use spells in their rituals with creatures. I read your old forum postings about how you envisioned creatures and I feel this idea of spells in rituals would still fit just fine in with your overall concept of things for MD. You could still keep your other forms of magic too with no problem.

8) If you do #5 then consider paying LHOs in some sort of point system. Each new member they review and then confirm receives the LHOs name in a tag on the character sheet. In turn the LHO gets paid X number of points for taking the time to do it. They can spend these points on WP, Shop credits etc. I don’t know, just an idea. They do have a lot of work to do.

9) In conjunction with #5, freeze players initial papers. So once an LHO confirms/authorizes them freeze that paper at that time. Maybe make a copy of it somehow or turn it to read only for everyone. Then make a second paper accessible to the player to record their player development, history, personal story, etc. This would better show and record the life of the players in MD and also prevent players from deleting their papers once made and approved by the LHOs.

10) Consider creating a perma-death arena for MP5 and above. This is where the character would enter into a dual with another but if a creature reaches 0 Vit it is automatically removed from the players character (ie. It dies) and the player loses permanently a certain percent of Max Vit and VP. You could tie this into your concept of what creatures actually are and how they are bonded to characters. BUT it is also just a game mechanism to give the more powerful players of MD something else to do besides grind stats. They can see which among them really has balls. You could create a new set of achievement medals just for them, surviving X number of perma-death duels, or killing X number of creatures for example.

11) Code an “EASY Button” for use with LHO’s. Yes it’s nice for them to be in the starting areas HOPING a new player will show but it’d be nice for them to be able to be out playing too. So how about a button in the paper cabin that when a new player presses it, it “summons” an LHO to that location. Of course this would require new players to read….(Or put a bot there, that way something is there to greet them).

12) I agree with Burns and the others, the start up does take some time. I also agree that the people who lack patience should not even be here BUT they should be made more aware that MD is unique and does require a lot of patience to play. But that goes back to my #3.

Other points:
(Do-Jo) I don’t like the Dojo occurrences either but what can you do. People are going to group together and help each other or simply grind together. Mur could hard code things to disrupt people gathering like that but that would create even more complaints and issues. Even if the veteran players through roleplay and influence tried to get people not to do that, it’d still happen (they would do it too). There are no NPCs to fight and people need some way to level and train their crits. I don’ think MD needs NPCs and they too would be abused. We have to live with it and work around it. There are a few alternatives but no matter what people will group together like this.

(God-Moding) the game allows Alts. Players will always use alts to better their mains to some fashion in any game they play, it’s only natural for gamers to do so. I was told by a vet MD player when I first joined “MD is like the land of Naruto. It’s not a matter of not cheating or being unfair but a matter of the player avoiding being caught. So if you’re a good little “ninja” than that means you don’t get caught breaking the rules, not that you don’t break them.” So here lays one of the problems that only Mur can tackle about MD; controlling players from using alts to better mains. OR now, it’s stopping players from using mains to build even stronger and more powerful alts. To do that would mean tighter restrictions on trading creatures, or stopping it, etc. Sigh…the way MD and really any other MMO is designed, you cannot stop god-moding. In game design, it will always happen unless you hard code a reset of some sort but that only starts the cycle all over. Mur could code more MP levels or sub levels for these players and auto assign them but again, the cycle would still repeat itself. Even with skill and attribute caps this cannot be helped and with those it’d mean everyone would stagnate at the upper level eventually. We just have to live with it.

(Patience) I would agree that many players leave because MD requires so much patience. You have to wait a day for each “page” in story mode in order to get full benefit. You have to wait days to build up power before you can attack shop guards and the few other things in the game. I don’t mind this at all. MD is unique and should stay as such. It should not cater to the common gamer and it’s players should have patience or be vetted out.

(Quests) I have solved about 5 of them and never received a prize. I got messages about the quest not being done or ready although the creator never said so and implied that it was up and running in their quest doc. Others had nothing I needed creature wise and could not give me any other prize (I knew that ahead of time in some situations, so this is not a complaint). The Quest system needs help. I love the idea that players make them in their own image which is great BUT… I know the system has to prevent abuse, give good rewards that players need and be player driven. More attention and discussion needs to be done in this area or more players are going to leave MD or not even care about that aspect of it, thus not be involved. I guess it comes down to trusting the Quest givers. Can WPs be tracked and monitored as to who receives which one from whom? I know a lot of work but would help the abuse. Maybe offer WPs for sale in the MD shop ONLY for players to give that have earned their quest doc. It’d be one way for players to give back to and support MD but also a way for them to earn WPs to give for quests. Or set up some sort of monthly allotment for them. Trusting a community to manage such a valuable commodity is a huge leap of faith for a game designer to take though.

(To Mur) The continuity of MD’s theme needs help and I think this is its biggest issue. For example how does one explain creatures? In your old forum posts you have them explained a lot differently than many current players view them. Even I thought they were creatures you recruited from different places in the lands to fight for you like in a Pokémon game that they were something living and breathing like my character was. That theme is what is presented to players by the game.

Now unless I’m mistaken you wanted it to be a lot more than that and deeper, more unique. The creatures were really representations of a mental concept that the characters themselves created and as the creatures leveled this was really the character gaining more skill in modifying and using said mental concept. If this is how you wanted them to be, well, it’s not how they come across. Nothing on a person’s character sheet and nothing about how creatures are recruited obviously says that they are a mental construct and not an actual physical creature.

The nomenclature you used in the game world, in the character sheets, on the websites need to be changed to help better present your true theme for MD and its lands. For example, instead of telling a player that they just recruited their first creature tell the player that they meditate for awhile and finally learned how to form and project their first mental construct (that has the form of an Armor or whatever).

There are a lot of questions too that don’t have answers. I know you and your philosophy of what’s really important, the answer or question but in game design mechanics you got to set that aside and make sure the overall theme works together well. And it does not right now. New players are faced with too many questions about things that any other game would have helped answer long before they even finished making their character. This hurts MDs retention.

Other things hurt it too. On your listing of main features for the game, you have it saying there is no economy system but yet one of the first items a player can get is a silver coin. It’s just common sense that coins are used in an economy system of some sort. It’s inconsistencies like that which lead to confusion or misdirection in the games design. It may seem small but it all adds together and I’m sure hurts player retention.

I’d recommend that you form a Tiger team and asses your game design, maybe that would help you get a better perspective on it and what needs to be done to it. None of us can tell you what to do with MD it’s all up to you. You have had it for how many years? You had your initial gaming group in it and many seem to have moved on. That happens in games but now you need new blood, maybe a new story line or direction? Maybe more automation in it and less you running the game like it was a table top RPG group. Or can you still do that? Whatever you decided I’m willing to help, I really like what you have done and I’m going to stick around. I know I’m long winded at the moment but there is a lot going on here. Best of luck whatever you decide.

Maybe these points will help too:

I’m writing this list as I read the other postings in this thread. If I mirror what others have said I’m not trying to steal anyone’s thunder. These are my thoughts too. I really like MD or I would have left a long time ago. But it does need some help to keep new players and just simply to better itself. So here’s my input. I know it’s long but if you knew me this is me being short winded….

1) Any monkey (and especially gamer) should be able to figure out the basics of how to set rituals, recruit creatures and the basics of combat in MD. Nothing here should be changed. It may look like a Pokémon style game but it does hold its own and is different. One thing that could help is maybe better define or explain what creatures are for new people. Maybe even set up a flash introduction story where things are explained or (see #3) make a guide for the game.

2) If your losing players in story mode I offer a couple ideas why it seems that way:
A) They were trying to figure out the different paths in the story not caring about the specific character(s) being used at the time. (So they will make many to map out the whole story, cant really stop this without a lot of coding and work.)
[img]http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/public/style_emoticons//cool.gif[/img] They received some negative stats because of a choice they made in story mode, did not like it and dropped the character. (Will most likely repeat many times as many gamers would do this. But don’t change this, they made their choices they can live with it.)
C) Are a vet player trying to make a very specific character/story path and felt the need to try a few times to get what they were hoping for to create an Alt. (Will most likely do many times and again is normal. This would happen in any game, it’s just what gamers do.)
D) Are new, don’t realize what MD is about and don’t have any patience and need instant gratification and can’t wait up to 24 hours for each part of the story to unfold. (We don’t need that impatient of players anyway, let them go.)

3) Players may not realize that MD is so unique and specialized. They may think it’s a browser based MMO, find that it’s not and leave. (This can be helped with a better packaging of MD in its marketing. Maybe make a couple of guides too for the game that better explain it but this is lacking in MD. Players have to read many forums, hunt through archives after joining the game and or wait for discussions in game to really know what is going on. I’m willing to bet many older players don’t even know the story line and have not even tried reading everything or tried and gave up. MD needs to be better defined and presented to players, new and old alike.)

4) Create and present a better and less cryptic definition of MD, it’s storyline, players, lands, magic, etc. (goes along the lines of #3 but I can see how MD could be very confusing to many players and this would defiantly make them lose interest.)

5) Alter how players become confirmed. Require LHOs to fill out a quick hidden form on players as part of the confirmation process. For example they simply have to check off 3 boxes on the confirmation screen and “digitally sign” that they reviewed the player. Player’s characters should not be confirmed until they have become MP4 (passed MP3 and understand basics of combat), created their papers (have a defined character to even play), have an appropriate name (yes subjective but we don’t need 10 Darth Vaders or Great Demon Gods, running around MD). MP3 should be the discovery phase for players by MP4 everyone should have a fully developed and created character. (Basically I think the start of the game needs attention especially how new characters are created and how the MP 3 level is utilized).

6) Consider using an automated naming feature where players pick from a random list of first and last names like other games use. Then have the option for players to create a nick name of their own which can be displayed. This could be a MD shop purchase. But this would also alleviate naming problems and help with over all game continuity.

7) Consider throwing players a bone, or just altering the magic system and start giving magic to MP4’s and above. It is Magic Dual. When I had the time to try and help as a LHO (don’t have the time to be one but did help). Many new players thought they would be able to use magic right away. So consider adding some basic magic to the game sooner. You could simply offer magic spells as you do creatures for MP 4 and 5. These could be considered lesser magic for example and could fit into your definition of things Mur. And it could give you an alternative to using creatures to drain principles. So players would be able to use spells in their rituals with creatures. I read your old forum postings about how you envisioned creatures and I feel this idea of spells in rituals would still fit just fine in with your overall concept of things for MD. You could still keep your other forms of magic too with no problem.

8) If you do #5 then consider paying LHOs in some sort of point system. Each new member they review and then confirm receives the LHOs name in a tag on the character sheet. In turn the LHO gets paid X number of points for taking the time to do it. They can spend these points on WP, Shop credits etc. I don’t know, just an idea. They do have a lot of work to do.

9) In conjunction with #5, freeze players initial papers. So once an LHO confirms/authorizes them freeze that paper at that time. Maybe make a copy of it somehow or turn it to read only for everyone. Then make a second paper accessible to the player to record their player development, history, personal story, etc. This would better show and record the life of the players in MD and also prevent players from deleting their papers once made and approved by the LHOs.

10) Consider creating a perma-death arena for MP5 and above. This is where the character would enter into a dual with another but if a creature reaches 0 Vit it is automatically removed from the players character (ie. It dies) and the player loses permanently a certain percent of Max Vit and VP. You could tie this into your concept of what creatures actually are and how they are bonded to characters. BUT it is also just a game mechanism to give the more powerful players of MD something else to do besides grind stats. They can see which among them really has balls. You could create a new set of achievement medals just for them, surviving X number of perma-death duels, or killing X number of creatures for example.

11) Code an “EASY Button” for use with LHO’s. Yes it’s nice for them to be in the starting areas HOPING a new player will show but it’d be nice for them to be able to be out playing too. So how about a button in the paper cabin that when a new player presses it, it “summons” an LHO to that location. Of course this would require new players to read….(Or put a bot there, that way something is there to greet them).

12) I agree with Burns and the others, the start up does take some time. I also agree that the people who lack patience should not even be here BUT they should be made more aware that MD is unique and does require a lot of patience to play. But that goes back to my #3.

[quote name='Metal Bunny' date='10 November 2009 - 06:24 AM' timestamp='1257852244' post='47136']
Anyway, I believe most people don't get this game as it is.
If one has to put it into a category, one that doesn't even really fit but is the closest one there, it would not be RPG.
It would be MMORPG.
Slight difference there.

In the sense that MMORPG has a single system, most of which eventually ends up in pvp.
pvp requires npc's, but interaction with others as well. As such, the RPG and grinding are set into [u]one system[/u]. But because people are put into pvp mode from the very start the result is that a lot immediately do something else, as the point and sense in duelling, even though it's called Magic frigging Duel, becomes slightly less plain.

The result is something quite extraordinary as the system of MMORPG's goal and interaction changes for MagicDuel. In the sense that one can choose to forgo the pvp and go for the Magic part of the game, whereas others simply keep grinding and go for the Duel of the game.
In the end however it is inevitable that grinders and rp'ers eventually come together again, primarily because people quit, others get bored and once you are bored or are at the top of your game, you get bored as well.
And once you are bored, you explore the other parts of the game. It's only natural.

[/quote]

I agree with you MetalBunny, I think MD is not understood by most. I feel this is due in part too Mur's language and writing barriers and to how he envisioned and setup the game. It is too unique for the average gamer and not what they expect to find online.

Mur seems to have created and tried to run MD as a local gaming group leader (GM/DM) would run a game for his friends. Except MD is unique in that Mur obviously coded it and put it up online for hundreds or thousands to try and play it. It’s clear that he gave it the love, attention to detail and uniqueness that any good GM would do for his gaming group. There is nothing else on the net like MD the only thing close would be the forum clubs where players RP in a similar manner but in forums. But even then MD is more unique then those sites and games. MD’s style of role-playing is more like live action role-playing where players have to be directly involved in making the story evolve and it’s not based on stats and dice rolls. This is where I think most players misunderstand MD and how to roleplay in it. MD’s combat system is also unique but as you said MB players don’t have to fight in order to RP. Players could stay MP3 and RP just fine but then they would be limited in game area and never reach higher MP levels and get spells etc.

I think Mur did a great job with MD and tried at least to pull off something thousands of others have tried to do with forum clubs and failed. He created a world with the classic RP table top feel and attention but for hundreds and even thousands of players to join. But sadly I think most players see it as an MMO more than anything else and miss how it should be played. Mur could help in this area by doing a few things but right now he seems focused on playing with the combat system which even for role-players is nice to have and gives players something else to do that fits within the theme of MD. Although I think players should have access to magic a bit sooner, it is Magic Duel.

Anyway, I think most players miss the mark in figuring out what MD is and how it should be played which creates tension, misunderstands and turns players away. Looking at Mur’s half sober rants and the scattered forum and archive information bits, MD has a lot to offer. I think it needs to be repackaged in a manner that better communicates to players what it is and how it should be played. Maybe then it’d have more success and less people arguing and being frustrated or bored. Maybe….

I think it's logical and would be more intuitive for new players if players were factioned to a specific Land, either by free choice or application for admission. And that the use of Alliances was only done so to explain the RP or hard coded two way relationship between various Factions. I think it'd be better to use Guilds as a means to allow members of factions to join into smaller like minded groups. These guilds could also be used a different political parties or in keeping with a feudal system, Guilds could denote royal families.

This way players can still have their small run groups (Guilds) that are currently called Alliances and MD would have it's needed lands with players grouped in them (Factions). These Guilds could work together for their land for example, work to unsuper their lands current Ruler or protect the ruler such as the Musketeers; develop the culture of their lands through unified RP and writing; Function as a royal family with each one vying for the Rulers favor; or function as a traditional guild as merchants, traders, or educators; or as a small unique unified group: pirates, traveling circus etc.

But using factions or alliances in any other way can be too confusing for they are not being used in conjunction with their RL definitions that most people already know and understand. MD needs multiple levels of player interaction; that for whole lands and that for smaller player driven themes, but please keep this structure intuitive and logical.

I think it's logical and would be more intuitive for new players if players were factioned to a specific Land, either by free choice or application for admission. And that the use of Alliances was only done so to explain the RP or hard coded two way relationship between various Factions. I think it'd be better to use Guilds as a means to allow members of factions to join into smaller like minded groups. These guilds could also be used a different political parties or in keeping with a feudal system, Guilds could denote royal families.

This way players can still have their small run groups (Guilds) that are currently called Alliances and MD would have it's needed lands with players grouped in them (Factions). These Guilds could work together for their land for example, work to unsuper their lands current Ruler or protect the ruler such as the Musketeers; develop the culture of their lands through unified RP and writing; Function as a royal family with each one vying for the Rulers favor; or function as a traditional guild as merchants, traders, or educators; or as a small unique unified group: pirates, traveling circus etc.

But using factions or alliances in any other way can be too confusing for they are not being used in conjunction with their RL definitions that most people already know and understand. MD needs multiple levels of player interaction; that for whole lands and that for smaller player driven themes, but please keep this structure intuitive and logical.

I propose the first ever [b]Cultural Fair Contest[/b] of MD (yes I know it’s not related to pain) where everyone from all the lands can gather and put their unique lands culture on display (post in MD forum). We Traveling folk (Gypsies) have been all around these lands and seen many unique and interesting things and people and I think it would be great for everyone to get together in this manner.

The contest is for players to work individually (or jointly if Mur allows splitting of the prizes) and create your own unique perspective of your chosen MD land. Players would need to describe as many of the below aspects as they can. Players should be creative but also use existing knowledge and use this as a chance to help develop their lands. They need to describe their lands from the perspective of how they see it or believe them to exist and this can be done visually and or in writing.

Regardless of the chosen medium selected you will be judged on your ability to express and communicate your lands culture in each category. You do not have to describe every category but the more you do the better chances you have of winning. You need to include the, Who, What, Where, When, Why and How as well as any other descriptive terminology you think of. This is a great opportunity for the MD community to come together and role play their lands and hopefully develop a better picture if you will or concept of each of the lands in MD.

[u]Categories, in no special order[/u]

[list]

[*][b]Customs and Courtesies:[/b] Include what the people do and how they interact with each other including festivals, holidays, dress and appearance, interpersonal behaviors such as unique greetings, etc.
[*] [b]Moral and Will:[/b] General disposition of the people, overall attitude, likes and dislikes, etc.
[*] [b]Diplomacy:[/b] View of people from other lands, thoughts on war, trade, peace with each of the other lands, etc.
[*] [b]Magic:[/b] Peoples view on magic, any specific preferences, any specific dislikes or fears and hopes related to magic, etc.
[*] [b]Political and Government:[/b] Describe the lands political structure, what the people of the land think about their leaders, how the government is run, etc.
[*] [b]Crime and punishment:[/b] Describe any crime that takes place in the land, how should punishment be given and in what way, etc.
[*] [b]Mercantile and Trade:[/b] Describe any unique trade goods or products that come from your lands, any special shops, any trade routes or partners in and to other lands, etc.
[*] [b]Religion and Faith:[/b] Describes any religious beliefs practiced in your lands, in BRIEF describe them but do not use this as a pitch to try and get people to join them, superstitions, etc.
[*] [b]Tourism and Fun:[/b] Describe any “hot spots” that people should be aware of in your lands including land marks, monuments etc. Also describe how exciting or not, your land is to visits and why etc.
[*] [b]Walk down the street:[/b] In brief describe what a person would see and experience walking done a street in your land. What would be going on, what are the buildings like, what would they smell and feel etc.
[*] [b]Culinary:[/b] Describe the foods and spices consumed in your lands, include fruits, meats, treats, etc.
[*] [b]Military:[/b] Describe any organized militia or armed forces, etc.
[*] [b]Organizations:[/b] Describe any organized groups or alliances in your land and how they contribute to the lands, etc.
[*] [b]Additional:[/b] Feel free to add anything else you feel sets your Land apart from others.
[/list]

Remember the focus of the contest is on your lands over all culture and not just one specific aspect of it so keep things descriptive but brief. Feel free to pull information from other player’s character concepts and any existing knowledge of the lands. Also feel free to be creative but anything that contradicts what Mur has laid out in the past about the lands or their history etc will not be accepted. Also feel free to work with the known artisans in the land you may commission them to do art work for your displays this does not count as a team effort. However you are not allowed to use copyrighted materials without written permission.

[b]Judging:[/b] Traveling folk will not be participating as we’ll be the overall judges but we’ll give our culture aspect as an example and to start off the contest. All, MD members may join the fair and review all the contestant exhibits and provide brief input as to how’s exhibit they like the best and why. This feedback will be used in part for judging.

[b]Prizes:[/b] Second and Third place winners will each get a good job sticker. First place winner will receive an all expenses paid trip to Mur’s house where he’ll pamper you with personal massages, breakfast in bed, and tell you all of MD’s secrets. Ok, just kidding, I know bad joke, not all of us Gypsies are good at comedy or entertaining.

Thanks for your time.

I propose the first ever [b]Cultural Fair Contest[/b] of MD (yes I know it’s not related to pain) where everyone from all the lands can gather and put their unique lands culture on display (post in MD forum). We Traveling folk (Gypsies) have been all around these lands and seen many unique and interesting things and people and I think it would be great for everyone to get together in this manner.

The contest is for players to work individually (or jointly if Mur allows splitting of the prizes) and create your own unique perspective of your chosen MD land. Players would need to describe as many of the below aspects as they can. Players should be creative but also use existing knowledge and use this as a chance to help develop their lands. They need to describe their lands from the perspective of how they see it or believe them to exist and this can be done visually and or in writing.

Regardless of the chosen medium selected you will be judged on your ability to express and communicate your lands culture in each category. You do not have to describe every category but the more you do the better chances you have of winning. You need to include the, Who, What, Where, When, Why and How as well as any other descriptive terminology you think of. This is a great opportunity for the MD community to come together and role play their lands and hopefully develop a better picture if you will or concept of each of the lands in MD.

[u]Categories, in no special order[/u]

[list]

[*][b]Customs and Courtesies:[/b] Include what the people do and how they interact with each other including festivals, holidays, dress and appearance, interpersonal behaviors such as unique greetings, etc.
[*] [b]Moral and Will:[/b] General disposition of the people, overall attitude, likes and dislikes, etc.
[*] [b]Diplomacy:[/b] View of people from other lands, thoughts on war, trade, peace with each of the other lands, etc.
[*] [b]Magic:[/b] Peoples view on magic, any specific preferences, any specific dislikes or fears and hopes related to magic, etc.
[*] [b]Political and Government:[/b] Describe the lands political structure, what the people of the land think about their leaders, how the government is run, etc.
[*] [b]Crime and punishment:[/b] Describe any crime that takes place in the land, how should punishment be given and in what way, etc.
[*] [b]Mercantile and Trade:[/b] Describe any unique trade goods or products that come from your lands, any special shops, any trade routes or partners in and to other lands, etc.
[*] [b]Religion and Faith:[/b] Describes any religious beliefs practiced in your lands, in BRIEF describe them but do not use this as a pitch to try and get people to join them, superstitions, etc.
[*] [b]Tourism and Fun:[/b] Describe any “hot spots” that people should be aware of in your lands including land marks, monuments etc. Also describe how exciting or not, your land is to visits and why etc.
[*] [b]Walk down the street:[/b] In brief describe what a person would see and experience walking done a street in your land. What would be going on, what are the buildings like, what would they smell and feel etc.
[*] [b]Culinary:[/b] Describe the foods and spices consumed in your lands, include fruits, meats, treats, etc.
[*] [b]Military:[/b] Describe any organized militia or armed forces, etc.
[*] [b]Organizations:[/b] Describe any organized groups or alliances in your land and how they contribute to the lands, etc.
[*] [b]Additional:[/b] Feel free to add anything else you feel sets your Land apart from others.
[/list]

Remember the focus of the contest is on your lands over all culture and not just one specific aspect of it so keep things descriptive but brief. Feel free to pull information from other player’s character concepts and any existing knowledge of the lands. Also feel free to be creative but anything that contradicts what Mur has laid out in the past about the lands or their history etc will not be accepted. Also feel free to work with the known artisans in the land you may commission them to do art work for your displays this does not count as a team effort. However you are not allowed to use copyrighted materials without written permission.

[b]Judging:[/b] Traveling folk will not be participating as we’ll be the overall judges but we’ll give our culture aspect as an example and to start off the contest. All, MD members may join the fair and review all the contestant exhibits and provide brief input as to how’s exhibit they like the best and why. This feedback will be used in part for judging.

[b]Prizes:[/b] Second and Third place winners will each get a good job sticker. First place winner will receive an all expenses paid trip to Mur’s house where he’ll pamper you with personal massages, breakfast in bed, and tell you all of MD’s secrets. Ok, just kidding, I know bad joke, not all of us Gypsies are good at comedy or entertaining.

Thanks for your time.

[quote name='awiiya' date='30 September 2009 - 01:03 PM' timestamp='1254330193' post='43235']
I would say that all humans views things (even if they try not to) in good and bad, and that they tend to work towards the good.

What you percieve to be virtuous, good, and worth working towards is usually what you will attempt to work towards in the long run.

The part of the need for belonging is undeniably true. However I would argue that the reason it is true is because we are hardwired to put "belonging" in the good column of our lives without fail. The rest of things and how they are sorted, good and bad, are not quite as fixed, and overtime they are likely to change.

However, that good list dictates what we do and how we behave; constantly working towards those goals.

Awi
[/quote]


I can agree with the first part that humans tend to view things in good or bad terms but I disagree that humans work towards the good in the long run. I say that humans are selfish and self centered in general and do what they perceive is best for them and in turn label that as being good. This is how 2 neutral parties can get into conflict with each other over a resource for example.

I agree that humans do seem hardwired having a need to belong. Sociologists have been saying humans are very social creatures for decades and they we gather, form groups and social communities out of some basic need we have.

But I still argue that we humans don't work toward good or bad, we simple work toward our on needs and label them how ever we need to to help justify the needs being met. One example is the need to confess a sin. Usually people do it in a hope of achieving some sort of salvation or to avoid punishment or some level of damnation. How many people would repent of their sins if there were no eternal consequence for doing them? But I guess that can start a whole different conversation.

[quote name='awiiya' date='30 September 2009 - 01:03 PM' timestamp='1254330193' post='43235']
I would say that all humans views things (even if they try not to) in good and bad, and that they tend to work towards the good.

What you percieve to be virtuous, good, and worth working towards is usually what you will attempt to work towards in the long run.

The part of the need for belonging is undeniably true. However I would argue that the reason it is true is because we are hardwired to put "belonging" in the good column of our lives without fail. The rest of things and how they are sorted, good and bad, are not quite as fixed, and overtime they are likely to change.

However, that good list dictates what we do and how we behave; constantly working towards those goals.

Awi
[/quote]


I can agree with the first part that humans tend to view things in good or bad terms but I disagree that humans work towards the good in the long run. I say that humans are selfish and self centered in general and do what they perceive is best for them and in turn label that as being good. This is how 2 neutral parties can get into conflict with each other over a resource for example.

I agree that humans do seem hardwired having a need to belong. Sociologists have been saying humans are very social creatures for decades and they we gather, form groups and social communities out of some basic need we have.

But I still argue that we humans don't work toward good or bad, we simple work toward our on needs and label them how ever we need to to help justify the needs being met. One example is the need to confess a sin. Usually people do it in a hope of achieving some sort of salvation or to avoid punishment or some level of damnation. How many people would repent of their sins if there were no eternal consequence for doing them? But I guess that can start a whole different conversation.