Resources and Alts

[Laphers]

I had a conversation today with someone who asked me why I don't use alts to help collect resource orders. Personally, I find the idea unappealing because it takes something away from my role and gameplay. But, to be fair, I am going to try an experiment with resources and alts just to see if it helps.

Of course, this issue is coming to light because of the introduction of the cauldron and recipes. Lumber and branches and sawdust have been available for almost a year but now, all of a sudden,lots of people want lots of resources. There are some who are willing to sell any resources at a higher price than the guilds because they have them and the guilds are swamped with orders. Personally I think this is good because there will always be people willing to pay higher prices to gain faster service.

I would rather see active people working in the guild; unfortunately, currently the Woodcutters have a few members that have gone inactive since the resources were introduced and currently there is no way to regain tools from inactive members. This is an issue that is being worked on but ultimately each guild will have to deal with it.

Is the use of alts to assist in gathering resources useful to gameplay? Ultimately I think it isn't but I want to hear what the community as a whole thinks about it.

[Phantom Orchid]

Using alts to help a main character is a big, huge, gigantic no-no in MD.

The real issue here is, like you said, the inability to recall harvesting tools that have become lost to inactive (and I would also add ex-communicated) guild members.

Kings/Queens and/or resource guild leaders should have the ability to recall tools from their respective land/guild.

Edited July 23, 2011 by Phantom Orchid

[Udgard]

Just and idea for the future, perhaps ask all members to give the ITC of the tool as soon as they are given it, so the leader can take the tool anytime if they went missing? Of course, then you will also need to make sure that you are only recruiting members that can be trusted not to transfer their tools to other characters while holding it.

[Laphers]

[quote name='Udgard' timestamp='1311392980' post='88659']
Just and idea for the future, perhaps ask all members to give the ITC of the tool as soon as they are given it, so the leader can take the tool anytime if they went missing? Of course, then you will also need to make sure that you are only recruiting members that can be trusted not to transfer their tools to other characters while holding it.
[/quote]

Yes, the ITC has been suggested and I think I will implement it for future members. But this topic is not specifically for Woodcutters but resources in general as the person who was asking me about using the alts was confused as to why I would even hesitate on using them.

[Burns]

Using alts for that purpose boils down to being present in several locations at once, reading the chat of several locations and receiving/sending PMs in several locations. Try doing that with one account and see how many illegal action reports you get.

Boo for several incarnations of the same character. Independent characters, okay, but the same char with multiple ids just for the sake of being present is obviously circumventing the rules on how PMs get sent and how chat is read.

[quote] You can have multiple accounts, to try out story, to experince new ways of play etc ..., however if you are detected that you are using them just to help one of your main accounts , all of them including the main will get banned.[/quote]

Edited July 23, 2011 by Burns

[Chewett]

[quote name='Udgard' timestamp='1311392980' post='88659']
Just and idea for the future, perhaps ask all members to give the ITC of the tool as soon as they are given it, so the leader can take the tool anytime if they went missing? Of course, then you will also need to make sure that you are only recruiting members that can be trusted not to transfer their tools to other characters while holding it.
[/quote]

The Water Dowsers have been doing this since its inception, It seemed the logical thing to do so the leader can retrieve any items when he needs them.

[quote name='Muratus del Mur' timestamp='1310231076' post='87440']
Here is a sample scenario: Gatherer gets a 10 stone batch. He can't sell one stone he can sell only 10 because they behave like resources, and over time that amount increases.So he can continue to increase stoc and ask for more, or sell and eventually he will sell. Using alts to store the stones will eventually reach a limit too. You are forgetting the resources regenerate and are endless so eventually their value drops as more are available.
[/quote]

I think this comment is very intresting.

Edited July 23, 2011 by Chewett

[Pipstickz]

Interesting as it is, Chewett, the total number of resources in the realm currently doesn't matter to most people, they don't keep track of it.

The ONLY time the cost of a resource such as, say, memory stones will go down (this is assuming that there will only be three gatherers in the long run, which is hopefully not true) is if people stop buying them. At this point, the ones selling them will actually go to people rather than people going to them, and they will sell for lower prices.

For example: Say I got a tool for collecting blades of grass. I could make, say, 20 brand new alts for item storage, then collect batches of 10, throw one batch of 10 on each alt and sell each batch for 3 silver, which means I can sit pretty for a while and not have to collect a thing. As long as there is demand for grass, nobody asks how much there is total, they just want to buy it from me, because I control the inflow.

[Curiose]

The issue regarding inactive players and guild items is in the process of being solved.

Laphers, if you could PM the names of inactive members I can ask around for player IDs and then give them to Mur so he may once more regain them. Thence forth, I will take the items to you.

As long as the guild leader keeps an active list of ALL MEMBERS and their ITEMS ID, then this will not happen again.

[Muratus del Mur]

Ary, pls dont make public assumptions about the reasons behind the tasks i ask u to do
gathering item ids from guilds is for something that will happen much later, not for a fix

now that you made everybody curious(e) about it, i should say what this is about, so that people dont make false assumptions.

If you remember long ago there was a test in wasps totem, LR, about fancy items. Most of you consider it was a long forgotten incomplete feature i did and left hanging. Very true. Only that there is a reason why i did it and qhy its not finished, apart my sudden shifts of mood. That incomplete feature is a structural arch in the architecture of md, if its done too soon will make the construction callapse, if its done too late other features will take its place. Its purpose? adding a drop of cyclicity to the system. Some items might in the far future be common tools provided by the land , rented, and that return periodically to their place.

By that, the industry so to call it, will remain with a stable structure of available tools, regenerable resources, guilds, etc, and will not depend on people vanishing with toold due to inactivity.


shared items.

for now i try to see how that works in minor social experiments such as the fenths sharing, the reality coagulators and other similar things.

u see how random things i do and never finish in md actually make sense on the long run? i dont think back then when i did that feature there was a real issue with woodcutters running away with tools or that anyone foresaw the sort of issues that incomplete feature was designed to solve when its time will come.

..
now on topic

alts are a major issue. what i can say for now is that those that are honestly playing and dont abuse alts will be happy later. remember you cant delete accounts and erase logs, but i am trying to find a way to make alts unabusable. If I fail, i will take more drastic and less elegant actions against alts how the interface treats them. I have several options to fix this but its too soon. just for example. ..i could force alt time stages, one character per week, pick what alt you want to play..that sort of thing...but lets try more decent ways

i appreciate the concern honest players have about the alts situation

[Curiose]

I apologize. I had thought that the reason for ID collecting was to retrieve guild items when they went inactive, as you said that it was a precautionary measure.

[Rumi]

[quote name='Muratus del Mur' timestamp='1312995452' post='89950']
If you remember long ago there was a test in wasps totem, LR, about fancy items. Most of you consider it was a long forgotten incomplete feature i did and left hanging. Very true. Only that there is a reason why i did it and qhy its not finished, apart my sudden shifts of mood. That incomplete feature is a structural arch in the architecture of md, if its done too soon will make the construction callapse, if its done too late other features will take its place. Its purpose? adding a drop of cyclicity to the system. Some items might in the far future be common tools provided by the land , rented, and that return periodically to their place.

By that, the industry so to call it, will remain with a stable structure of available tools, regenerable resources, guilds, etc, and will not depend on people vanishing with toold due to inactivity.


shared items.
[/quote]

I noticed that wasps totem can store items of some kind and I heard something about special items used there. I would like to see this kind of a system implemented for a community garden toolshed, which would allow users to harvest from the spaces they cultivate.

[Muratus del Mur]

this community garden fits in a way with the herbs resource..isnt it?

[Laphers]

I'm not sure why I didn't see Curi's post from the 25th but I will say that I am not as concerned with the loss of tools on inactive people since Mur posted that he is looking at ways to ensure that resources will be much more freely available (It seems like a type of promise made to all members of MD rather than a "fix" for the Woodcutters).

As for alts, I stand by my original stance against using alts. It made collecting the byproduct easier but I feel it detracted from the way the game should be played. (@Mur, if my use of an alt in this fashion is deserving of a punishment, I accept it freely.)

[Rumi]

My apologies for side-tracking this thread. I hope to further discuss community garden resource/item logistics in its own thread as we come closer to the final design.

[quote name='Muratus del Mur' timestamp='1313034860' post='89989']
this community garden fits in a way with the herbs resource..isnt it?
[/quote]

I don't know if herbs would include all harvestable plants, or if food items would be a separate (similar) kind of item. The garden design includes sections for both culinary/medicinal herbs, as well as food items.

Ideally, each community plot would be leased for perhaps a three month season. The harvest at the end of the season will depend on the crops the player chooses to cultivate and what kind of energy they put into cultivating the crops. These crops should be immediately identified at the time of their harvest. Both cultivation and harvest would require the use of certain (public) tools and resources (ie: water).

The other sections of the garden which are not community plots would also produce regular harvests, some of which would be available to the general public (anyone passing by) and others available to specific groups/individuals (ie: certain garden elements associated with specific lands). This aspect of the design is currently under consideration and ties in with the current garden design quest ([url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/9998-plant-guild-design-quest/"]http://magicduel.inv...d-design-quest/[/url]).

Mur, if you wish to discuss details at this time, please contact me. Otherwise, I will wait to contact you until we come closer to a final design.

Again, my apologies for side-tracking this thread beyond the discussion of public tools for the garden.

Edited August 11, 2011 by Rumi